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B787 Enters Home Stretch Towards Delivery Pt.2  
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 23103 times:

Continuing the discussion from the following thread:

Boeing 787 Enters Home Stretch Towards Delivery (by Stitch Apr 21 2011 in Civil Aviation)

105 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePart147 From Ireland, joined Dec 2008, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 23020 times:

Duration calculation results using http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html

From and including: Sunday, 8 July 2007 -> to and including: Saturday, 13 August 2011

It is 1498 days from the start date to the end date, end date included, or 4 years, 1 month, 6 days!!!


On Monday 15th August 2011 - it will have been 1,500 days since roll-out.

According to Boeing original Press Release on the Roll-out, http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/q3/070708b_nr.html

"A total of six airplanes will be included in the flight test program, which will conclude in May 2008 with the certification of the airplane followed shortly by the first delivery of a 787 to ANA.
To date, 47 customers worldwide have ordered 677 airplanes worth more than $110 billion at current list prices, making the Dreamliner the most successful commercial airplane launch in history. The first 787 is scheduled to enter passenger service in May 2008."

A lot has changed in that 4 years and a lot has not - c'mon Boeing, the finishing line is finally here...



It's better to ask a stupid question during training, rather than make a REALLY stupid mistake later on!
User currently offlineSlcGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 22950 times:

787 finally makes a visit to KSLC. ZA102 made a KPAE-KSLC-KBIL-KPAE flight today. Good to see it at SLC even if it was only here for 45 minutes.

User currently offlineoykie From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2673 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 22464 times:

Flightblogger reports the following:

Quote:
Boeing appears to have completed certification flight testing of the first delivery variant of its 787 Dreamliner, 606 days after the type first began flying.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...-certification-flight-testing.html

We are close   



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offline328JET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 21703 times:

Quoting oykie (Reply 3):

That sounds like really good news!

I am really excited to see the first B787-flight in commercial service to germany.


User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 21002 times:

This may only be of interest to the super-nerds  : having viewed Matt Cawby's (Paine Field Blog) video of RC555's (Cathay Pacific Cargo 747-8F) maiden flight [see: http://kpae.blogspot.com/2011/08/cat...cargo-747-8f-first.html#comments], it looks like ZA101 (l/n 8 - JA801A), the first 787 scheduled for delivery to ANA, was moved yesterday from the "fuel dock" to the western edge of the Boeing Ramp - another sign of progress towards her first flight.

User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 531 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 19372 times:

I am very excited, and cannot wait. There are great videos on Twitter, which can be found elsewhere about her unavailing last week. It looks great and she will change flying for ever. The windows are very cool. Congrats to Boeing and ANA, and we are almost finished. Just one last push to the finish line.

Thank you for all answers/comments,

laxboeingman



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineSlcGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18097 times:

Quote SlcGuy (Reply 2)
787 finally makes a visit to KSLC. ZA102 made a KPAE-KSLC-KBIL-KPAE flight today. Good to see it at SLC even if it was only here for 45 minutes.

Quoting oykie (Reply 3):
Quote:
Boeing appears to have completed certification flight testing of the first delivery variant of its 787 Dreamliner, 606 days after the type first began flying.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles....html


Rumour had it that this was the last test flight needed but didn't mention it in original post because I wasn't sure. Sounds like that info was correct! Yay!!!! Shame they waited so long to bring it to SLC, but guess we should feel honored we were part of final test itinerary LOL.


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1333 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17524 times:

Quoting Part147 (Reply 1):
On Monday 15th August 2011 - it will have been 1,500 days since roll-out

Is this why the Home Stretch is already 116 days long and looks to be another 16-46 days?


User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 17480 times:

Flightblogger has added some interesting additional color to the news article which appeared in ATI on Saturday about certification of the 787, including:

Quote:
...On Sunday, ZA102 flew with a plane-load of passengers to put the the aircraft's IFE and environmental control systems to the test, with final F&R ground tests afterward, say program sources, a test for Boeing, not the FAA...
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...ertification-flight-testing-c.html

See also: http://boeing.flightaware.com/live/f...2/history/20110814/1800Z/KPAE/KPAE for details about the aforementioned test flight.


User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17278 times:

ZA001 departed BFI yesterday for a flight to Moscow. See: http://boeing.flightaware.com/live/f...1/history/20110815/0001Z/KBFI/UUBW Perhaps another "test for Boeing?"

User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17123 times:

Quoting mdword1959 (Reply 10):

ZA001 is on display at MAKS. It was announced two weeks ago.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17070 times:

Quoting mdword1959 (Reply 10):
Perhaps another "test for Boeing?"

What does putting "test for Boeing" in air quotes mean? A test is either for certification or it's not...there is no way to fudge between the two, the processes are very different.

Tom.


User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 17010 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 12):

I was merely trying to acknowledge using Mr. Ostrower's terminology/characterization for the possible purpose of the flight.


User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16756 times:

Does anyone one know if we might see a 787 at the Chicago Air & Water Show this coming weekend...given that the flight testing is mostly complete it would seem like perfect timing!

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29686 posts, RR: 84
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16542 times:
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The Moscow trip probably performs two purposes - collect more data for Boeing's internal use and pay a visit to a large 787 customer (SU).

User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16171 times:

Quoting mdword1959 (Reply 5):
it looks like ZA101 (l/n 8 - JA801A), the first 787 scheduled for delivery to ANA, was moved yesterday from the "fuel dock" to the western edge of the Boeing Ramp - another sign of progress towards her first flight.

Any word on when she's due to take to the skies, if she hasn't already?


User currently offlinecatdaddy63 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16036 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

No doubt Matt Cawby will have his eyes (and lenses) on ZA101 as her first flight approaches. Ground tests, radio checks, engine runs etc.

User currently offlinepoz2brs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 15511 times:

Some of the resident spotters at MAN were talking about ZB 's 787 deliveries being firmed up to commence first quarter 2013. Can't wait to see the type finally in service with a UK airline, I may even go back to Poland for LOT's first flight too, if that is ahead of the first UK EIS (supposedly should be).

The 787 feels like an awkward child that has caused it's parents a lot of problems and now is finally getting a job and moving out!


User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 14937 times:

It took a few days for the formal confirmation of this important program milestone to be forthcoming from Boeing:

Quote:
Boeing has completed certification flight testing for the first delivery variant of its 787, finishing more than 4,800h and more than 25,000 test conditions...

See: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...cation-flight-test-completion.html

See also: http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1884

[Edited 2011-08-17 12:39:50]

User currently offlineCuriousFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 675 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14872 times:

Finally!

Now let's see it operating.


User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 14539 times:

Matt Cawby (Paine Field Blog) reports that some ground tests were done Wednesday on ZA101 (l/n 8 - JA801A), the first 787 scheduled for delivery to ANA, engine run fences were also moved to the airplane in the afternoon but there was no engine start as of 5:30 PM (PDT).

http://kpae.blogspot.com/2011/08/paine-field-august-17.html

BTW, video highlights of 787 flight testing can be found at: http://youtu.be/9yRmwGMNuDo

[Edited 2011-08-17 21:19:55]

User currently offlinemdword1959 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14115 times:

Matt Cawby (Paine Field Blog) reports there was an initial engine run on ZA101 (l/n 8 - JA801A), the first 787 scheduled for delivery to ANA, this morning.

See: http://kpae.blogspot.com/2011/08/ana-787-ja801a-first-engine-run.html for a photo and video.


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2848 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14038 times:

Quoting mdword1959 (Reply 22):
See: http://kpae.blogspot.com/2011/08/ana-787-ja801a-first-engine-run.html for a photo and video.

AWESOME! Gotta love the smokey start-up!!! She purrs like a kitten!         



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineRonaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 13769 times:

FAA approval for Type Certication ..... today 747-8F (see 747-8 Thread), next week 787-8? Awesome news!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ification-for-747-8-jumbo-jet.html


25 rj777 : I wonder if the certification ceremony will be webcast like the 1st flight was. If not, I hope the delivery ceremony is!
26 tdscanuck : I'm not sure there is a ceremony...there's a big meeting ("Type board") where they hash out any remaining open items, some paperwork goes back and fo
27 Post contains links mdword1959 : ZA102 made a test flight along the WA/OR coast yesterday (See: http://boeing.flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE102 ). Matt Cawby (Paine Field Blog) has p
28 United787 : I can't believe that we are going to soon have a 787 production and delivery thread like the A380!
29 kanban : I sure hope not!! maybe a quarterly summary of deliveries but tracking every component delivery, roll out spare me. please!
30 sunrisevalley : Quote from Flight Global Aug. 8th. " The 787 will initially be certified up to a 180min ETOPS requirement, allowing the aircraft to fly three hours fr
31 OldAeroGuy : There is a ceremony. Attendees include Boeing Execs, Program Engineering Managers, and reps from the FAA and EASA. For a milestone program like the 7
32 tdscanuck : That's on the operating side (JCAB is the same way). The aircraft could show up with ETOPS330 certification on the type and they'd still be restricte
33 United787 : Bah humbug
34 Stitch : I expect there will be a shindig at the north end of the ramp like they have done in the past for some special 777 deliveries. So you should be able
35 Post contains links and images mdword1959 : There will probably only be a large scale "public ceremony" for the actual first delivery to ANA. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't take place
36 gemuser : Sorry Tom, you are wrong on this one. Both the NZ (to SunriseValley) & Australian (to me) regulators have confirmed that the approval of the regu
37 sunrisevalley : An official with the New Zealand regulator who was part of the Aus/ N.Z. EDTO task force told me that both the O and D country regulators must approv
38 sunrisevalley : Ah, you have probably fingered that there is no ICAO standard at this time ? Is this so?
39 gemuser : Don't know, but can't think of any other reason for the O/D approval required. May be if there is an ICAO standard A & NZ have opted out, I belie
40 OldAeroGuy : Don't know what will be done for the 787. The ones I've been to have been closed door only. I expect the 787 may be more elaborate given the nature a
41 Stitch : I believe the highest ICAO standard is currently ETOPS-180/207. EASA has approved the A330 family for ETOPS-240 and the FAA has approved US-registere
42 tdscanuck : Interesting...how does that actually work? There are ETOPS180 and ETOPS330 routes between the same two destinations. Assuming that the issuer of the
43 gemuser : If ETOPS 330 is NOT ICAO approved (see Stitch-reply41) then the authority is simply "you cannot enter our airspace on an ETOPS330 route" or " we will
44 kalvado : What about overflying third countries? Does that third country also need to approve high ETOPS route? Even better, flight can stay outside of third c
45 bristolflyer : I was at the Boeing plant last Friday and the guy showing us around was very excited about the certification. There seems to be an awful lot of these
46 SonomaFlyer : ANA announced NRT to BOS as one of their first routes. CO announced IAH to AKL. Figure 15-16 hours in the air.
47 sunrisevalley : Probably but there are some of us waiting rather impatiently for Boeing to get this sort of data into their ACAP documents on their website so we can
48 gigneil : I am having a hard time believing that Continental wasn't and United isn't aware of the regulatory environs in New Zealand and didn't plan for this in
49 sunrisevalley : Their announcement of the route was at least a year before N.Z. promulgated their final rules.
50 gemuser : I doubt many countries would worry about an overflight, it won't be carrying around 50% of your citizens, where as a flight landing in your country w
51 Post contains links mdword1959 : In an article about its early scheduling of the Dreamliner, Flightglobal also reports that ANA expects to have 20 787s in service by March 2013: http:
52 Post contains links mdword1959 : Interesting article from Bloomberg mostly about the financial state of the 787 program as certification apporaches: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011
53 Stitch : Even if the airframes don't make a profit on delivery, they'll make it over their lifetime through ancillary sales so in the end Boeing should make a
54 mdword1959 : This is the standard rationalization offered for OEMs poor execution of their development/industrialization programs. I personally don't find it very
55 Stitch : Well obviously the goal is to make a profit from both the initial delivery and the ancillaries over the life-cycle of the airframe. But many on this
56 Post contains links OldAeroGuy : Here's a video of the ceremony. http://www.boeing.com/Features/2011/..._747-8F_long_journey_08_22_11.html Since it's a derivative, it's pretty low ke
57 Post contains images oykie : It is being reported on Twitter that the 787 will be certified this Friday!!! 26th of August will be the day Boeing finally got it right
58 Post contains links centrair : That was JAL's announcement. ANA's First route international was announced today as HND-FRA. All Nippon Picks Frankfurt for 787’s First Long-Haul R
59 Ruscoe : You've got to remember that whatever the actual program profit or loss,(depending upon the number of units used), that Boeing have been writing off 78
60 Post contains images Part147 : At loooong last - EIS confirmed in print... "ANA’s first scheduled commercial flights with the 787s will be domestic services to Okayama and Hiroshi
61 tdscanuck : Sort of...it's based on the accounting quantity, which is a somewhat fuzzy number (defined in the annual report) that's basically how many airplanes
62 fpetrutiu : Does anyone know what is the status of the ETOPS certification on the 787? I know the FAA type rating and cert has basicaly been sent to the printer,
63 sunrisevalley : Which routes do ANA fly that would require a 330- min. diversion? Now if you were to list any one of QF, NZ ,LAN, TAM , SAA , these carriers could ha
64 Stitch : The Japanese Aviation Authorities will require NH and JL to both operate the 787 for a full year without any problems before they will issue them the
65 tdscanuck : Flightblogger posted not too long ago that they'd have ETOPS180 out of the box, with 330 to follow after an update to the fuel quantity software. Eit
66 Post contains images Stitch : Hence my noting it applied to NH and JL. Probably should have noted I was referring to the Operators Certificate. [Edited 2011-08-23 22:12:51]
67 mdword1959 : Again, I fail to see what's particularly compelling about the financial performance of the OEM's poorly executed product development/industrializatio
68 Post contains links mdword1959 : Jon Ostrower of Flightglobal (Flightblogger), who is currently in Seattle, has provided some detail about the much anticipated impending events: http:
69 tdscanuck : Nobody's saying they couldn't make more money if they executed well. But that's not what we were talking about. The complete original quote was: It w
70 Post contains links mdword1959 : ANA is breaking some news before the anticipated certification ceremony for the 787 later this morning. http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ive-fir
71 Post contains links mdword1959 : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...rtification-from-faa-and-easa.html Congratulations to all involved. Here's a link to Boeing's press release as
72 Post contains images glbltrvlr : Rather nice Bloomberg photo of the delivery line in Everett:
73 Stitch : NH launched the program on 26 April 2004, so they will take delivery exactly 7 years and 5 months later.
74 NYC777 : Now we know how much time Boeing will need to budget for it's next all new airplane. Take that time and add two more years.
75 Stitch : Yes, these new programs have certainly been challenging. Roughly 6 years and 10 months passed between the A380's program launch on 19 December 2000 a
76 sunrisevalley : Once the ANA delivery takes place , perhaps the theme of this thread show be changed to the 789 .
77 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby (Paine Field Blog) reports ZA002 did a low altitude approach while the certification ceremony using ZA001 was taking place at the "compass
78 Post contains links Stitch : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyuchyouRS4
79 Post contains links mdword1959 : Some interesting photos documenting the certification ceremony illustrate Randy Tinseth's blog entry about yesterday's event. See: http://boeingblogs.
80 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby (Paine Field Blog) photographed ZA100/LN7/JA802A (2nd aircraft to be delivered?) today, painted with ANA's special 787 livery parked in the
81 JoeCanuck : As much as I've hated all the delays, I am giddy that the 787 is on the brink of finally entering service. Hopefully soon it will become just another
82 Post contains links mdword1959 : Another significant program milestone has been passed: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...n-bureau-approves-boeings-787.html
83 Post contains links sirtoby : And, according to this analysis, the 787 will be a problem for the A332 - time for Airbus to get the A350 up in the air: http://aeroturbopower.blogsp
84 Post contains links mdword1959 : Matt Cawby (Paine Field Blog) reports ZA101 (l/n 8 - JA801A), first 787 to be delivered to ANA, has made her maiden flight today following a high spee
85 art : Don't understand what you are saying here. Sounds like you are saying that the cost of producing the first thousand frames is $116 billion and the co
86 gigneil : Can someone update me on how many total 787s will be delivered this year? No he's saying for 1000-2000 the costs are $56 million per frame.
87 Stitch : Douglas Harned divided the $16.2 billion worth of inventory and divided by 1000 deliveries for an average of $116 million per delivery. (That the num
88 Post contains images art : Thanks Gigneil and Stitch. I'm no accountant and I´m used to UK expressions. Am I right in thinking that "$16.2 billion worth of inventory" basically
89 JoeCanuck : Right...I think. I understand it as the cost of development divided by number of planes sold. So if they only sell 1000 planes, that works out to 116
90 bikerthai : Some of the 787 development cost also impacts other programs. New materials, parts and processes that are developed and billed to the 787 will help o
91 tdscanuck : No. Inventory is just what they've already built. The frames already built can't be anywhere near the program accounting quantity, so the inventory v
92 mdword1959 : In accounting that's known as proper "matching," i.e. combining/comparing revenues with relevant expenses. Mr. Harned is approaching the figures more
93 glbltrvlr : Except that ignores the time value of money. That's the reason why the 280 will never break even. When you combine the development overruns with a sl
94 ZKCIF : Either i do not understand something or 16 billion divided by 1000 is 16 million and not 116 million. please feel free to correct
95 frmrCapCadet : Accounting, in these complex situations, is once or twice removed from reality. Or better, it is a second or third order reality. And like using the s
96 fpetrutiu : Wrong: 16,000,000,000 is 16 bil. so 16,000,000,000 / 1,000 = 160,000,000 that is 160 million dollars.
97 Post contains images Part147 : ... maybe you should check your work there...
98 fpetrutiu : Oops one too many 0's. Either way it does not change a thing. They said that they have 16.2bil of inventory build. That is the value of the frames tha
99 mdword1959 : Most of that figure is deferred development costs which will be amortized over a large "accounting block" likely to be 1000 units according to the Bl
100 Stitch : When Boeing moved to Program Accounting in the wake of the 1997 Production Snafu, there were claims they did so because it would allow them to "bury"
101 Post contains images ZKCIF : I hope You do not work for Boeing
102 bonusonus : The details of the accounting are interesting, but what I want to know is, who will be the first airline to operate the 787 into LAX?
103 Post contains images art : Ah, a question that brings us back to the world of mere mortals from a world where "x" is a miraculous success financially or a complete disaster jus
104 Stitch : QF, maybe? Replacing the A330-200 to/from AKL?
105 qf002 : That would be a good route for the 788 if they're struggling on it as we are constantly hearing on these forums, and for LAX-JFK.
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