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Qantas International Announcement  
User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1128 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 38210 times:

Info directly from the ASX:

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20110816/pdf/420dxbfm2l4cyg.pdf

Summary:

SYD-EZE dumped for SYD-SCL (early 2012)
QF1/2 and QF 29/30 LHR tags dropped - QF to keep LHR slots and lease to BA (early 2012)
BA dropping 1x Australia service (BKK I presume)
BA-QF JSA to now only focus on SIN.
New Premium airline to be launched in Asia somewhere with a requirement of up to 11 A320s
Jetstar Japan to launch with "rapid" growth of up to 24 320s
Focus on Australia-Asia flying with more frequencies from Australian gateways
New lounges in HKG, SIN and LAX
9x 744s to have interiors updated to "380" standard.
4x 744 to be retired early.
6x 380s to be deferred from FY14-16 to FY19 and beyond - the deferred aircraft become replacement for 744ER.

254 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNutsaboutplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 496 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 38049 times:

I looked through the documents, it looks like QF is basically saying that they are going to keep their "international product" stagnet from a size perspective and focus on quality and balance sheet improvement instead of growth.....the delay in A380 deliveries is a bit of a shocker.

It would appear that the only growth will come from the JetStar division.....am I reading this correctly?



American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2027 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 37965 times:

In summary:

Phase 1 is Qantas International (Australia) shrinks and we'll have fewer aircraft and no new destinations ('cause we won't have the aircraft to fly there anyway).
We'll have mini-Qantas international with A320s - like Jetstar Asia, only premium...

Sad about losing the BKK-LHR and HKG-LHR. Done both and would much rather fly Qantas than BA (Quality flights vs BAd flights).

They talk about using Malaysia as a hub to Europe (with MH). Wonder if we'll see a Qantas flight to KUL in future.



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 37952 times:

Well SCL not expected but not a surprize...the conscensus seemed to be that S.Am would be dropped altogether.
I thought all along that BKK-LHR would be dropped...
HKG is not unexpected but still somewhat of a surprise and a shame.
Premium airline in Asia no surprises there
Jetstar Japan should be a good thing provided QF still flies SYD-NRT
New lounges.... well thats just something to plump up the announcement but still a good move
744 upgrades are old news as are the retirements
A380 deferral... is a surprise but with QF dropping two LHR routes it makes sense.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineqfa787380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 37939 times:

Also looks like no more 737/787/330 until decade's end.
All growth will be from JQ and it looks like they will order 78 320Neo from the asx pdf
Nothing specific on Asian-Australia growth, just saying it will happen
Nothing on HNL
Nothing on LAX-JFK
Nothing on JQ European expansion

Not good at all.


User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 37939 times:

Jetstar Japan will be 1/3 QF, 1/3 JL and 1/3 Mitsubishi with investment/capital 42% from QF, 42% from JL and 16% from Mitsubishi. Aiming to fly from KIX and NRT.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20110816/pdf/420dww4rddcy12.pdf

QF-BA JSA:

confirmed - BA to upgrade LHR-SIN-SYD from 777 to 747, to increase LHR-HKG frequencies from 14 to 17 per week. QF stop flying HKG-LHR and BKK-LHR and be put through on BA planes.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20110816/pdf/420dw81fc4pd2m.pdf

still nothing on where they intend to fly 787s... perhaps this will be what they say in their investor presentation (post above) re: Australia-Asian frequency increases.


User currently onlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 38
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 37828 times:

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):

Is the laying off of 1000 workers new news?

Also it says that the QF Group will be purchasing 110 A320s over the next few years.. Any idea where these are heading?

Not sure if I agree with the new Asian airlines being set up. It'll be interesting to track.


And all of this leads to QF's share price rising 5c.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineqfa787380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 37803 times:

Looks like 380s will be completely dedicated to Mel-Syd-Sin-Lhr-Lax. I wonder if eventually they'll go to JNB as well.
I wonder if they ever will reaccess those LHR slots that are being leased back to BA?
Will BA's LHR-SIN-SYD flight eventually become a 380 service as it is now being upgraded from 777 to 744?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25056 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 37794 times:

This seems to only the first of many announcements as the presentation twice mentions that further initiatives will be underway and announcements will be made "over the coming months".


Also other tidbits are 1,000 positions to be made redundant, pushed up retirement of 767 and 737 aircraft in addition to 744s, deferral of some 738s also, and confirmation of A320NEO for the group.

I also note - there is nothing mentioned about the America's, nor about their planned AA/QF JV.
News about that should be forthcoming in the coming months, and I can certainly see adjustments on this side of the Pacific.


But in essence and to summarize the four pillars of their strategy are:

o Continued focus on customer experience and premium production positioning
o Strengthen presence in Asia
o Deepen and broaden alliances
o Significantly reduce capital investment in under performing Qantas International



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 38
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 37743 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
announcements will be made "over the coming months".

I thought the 'strategy' day was going to be the 24th of August? Or did they just do it today instead..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineqfa787380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 37652 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 9):
I thought the 'strategy' day was going to be the 24th of August? Or did they just do it today instead..

I think there had been some leaking and the announcement was brought forward. I don't think it's over today as someone I know attending has been ushered into another room for another announcement.


User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 37654 times:

Investor presentation says SCL will be in partnership with LAN. In other words QF will no longer fly to South America and it will simply codeshare with LAN.

Investment analysis shows all new aircraft will be narrow bodies so it is hard to see the new premium carrier being able to open up new routes to Europe etc unless the 787s currently assigned to QF move across to it.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3152 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 37605 times:

Here's a video to go along with this, but not many details

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuH59v9QwXQ



FLYi
User currently onlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 37377 times:

Still struggling to actually see what they're going to be physically doing to improve the premium experience etc.

Where are the A330 refits? Where are the domestic 737 refits? Where is the service reform?

All I'm seeing here is a new stream of revenue from leasing LHR slots that will be directed to setting up an Asian airline (which I do think is exciting) and Jetstar Japan.

Was hoping for a bit more TBH, but there will be more announcements into the future...


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 37341 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 12):
Here's a video to go along with this, but not many details

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuH59...9QwXQ

That doesn't seem to match up with the ASX announcement...  
"more choices, to new gateways, to more destinations around the world".... hmmm flying QF to LHR... currently you can choose to fly via BKK,SIN or HKG... new plan... just via SIN...



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25056 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 37346 times:

One thing Qantas clearly is doing is going to rely more on its OW and JV partners.

So here are my thoughts about a few:

SCL - great move. From SCL you can access all of South America - Argentina, Peru, Brazil etc. Flying to EZE was more of a dead end for beyond connections.
LHR - Surprised its only going to be (1?) Daily now. The presentation does not even commit to A380 service simply saying "A380 aircraft or equivalent product" Guess Kangaroo route economics are worse than ever.
FRA - Will this be sustained? If the grand-daddy of markets London its down to a single flight what does this mean for the remainder of Europe for QF. Future Jetstar market from SIN instead?
USA - I don't see need for QF in HNL with JetStar around. JFK as I've said before has to be an expensive tag flight to support. With an eventual AA JV, why not feed via LAX/DFW and be done with it? For LAX the AKL flight seems a bit a non-core periphery flight. I guess America's announcements will come at a later date, maybe once the authorities sign off on the JV?
HKG - Is QF going to do anything with CX, esp for North Asia and China? While OW partners, I've never noted these guys be chummy with each other. Maybe time to break the ice, and rationalize service between them now?

Some ideas to kick around for now.

I'm also quite curious where QF plans to base this "Asian premium airline" utilizing up to 11 A320s. Singapore again?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinedlnz From New Zealand, joined Jul 2011, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 37176 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Surprised its only going to be (1?) Daily now

Twice daily on QF metal from what I can see:
QF31/32 ex SYD & SIN
QF9/10 ex MEL & SIN

Also no announcement re: AKLLAX... Phase 2 perhaps as this is really a service QF seems to be giving up on.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
I don't see need for QF in HNL with JetStar around

I do, but on an A332 with a small J cabin and preferably Premium Economy rather than an outdated and often overpriced 763 experience. Hawaii is great value for Australians (and NZL'ers) and not all are atracted to the bottom feeder JQ service.


User currently offlinecaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1637 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 37146 times:

Just for your information and to put this discussion of the future Qantas route structure in perspective.. here's a flash back to Qantas' route map in 1973. It was quite extensive for it's time.

[Edited 2011-08-15 18:33:23]

User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 37153 times:

2 LHR flights: QF 9/10 (MEL) and QF31/32 (SYD)

User currently offlinesydaircargo From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 37105 times:

how do they want to compete against SQ in Asia by deferring the A380 to later , they shuld get them sooner.

User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 37021 times:

I wonder if BKK will go from 744 to 330/787 (When the arrive) and JQ's MEL-BKK goes back up to QF?

And similarly - MEL-HKG is only 1x daily 744, perhaps time to switch to 2x daily frequencies on 330s/787s?


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2027 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 36991 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
I'm also quite curious where QF plans to base this "Asian premium airline" utilizing up to 11 A320s. Singapore again?

Will Qantas up frequencies from Australian cities to the Asian hub/s to compete?

Will Qantas have some sort of JSA with MH? Will the hub be KUL? It's obviously not going to be BKK.

Surprised that there are no long haul destinations for the Asian premium airline, again to compete.

Will Jetstar Japan fly to destinations outside of that country, making Japan a northern Asia LCC hub for Jetstar (eg giving them 1 stop to Korea from Australia)? (Reread the announcement and the answer is yes, though destinations not announced yet)

Will the new Asian premium airline fly to Australia - say Darwin - much like Jetstar?

Edited to answer my own question!

[Edited 2011-08-15 18:35:00]


Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 36884 times:

from the last paragraph on this article:

http://www.theage.com.au/business/ne...bout-1000-jobs-20110816-1ivcn.html

Quote:
The airline is due to announce the finer details of the strategic review of its premium international business on August 24.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 36807 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Flying to EZE was more of a dead end for beyond connections.

Not always. I'm sure there must be much more traffic to/from destinations like GRU and GIG than LIM and LPB etc, and to GRU/GIG it's about 300 nm shorter via EZE than via SCL.


User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1970 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 36603 times:

Omg is Qantas serious? The only place they are launching is Santiago, and they're cutting HKG-LHR and BKK-LHR? Does this mean QF will only fly three times a day into LHR?

There's no mention of QF flying to KUL though. An a premium airline in Asia with 11 A320s? When CX and SQ are flying widebodies throughout Asia? Any idea where this "premium hub" will be? If it's KUL, will MH and AK just take it lying down? If it's SIN, which makes the most logical sense since very soon QF will only fly to SIN to feed into 3K and BA, how will they fight CX in its home market in the premium section? At least 3K was slugging it out with TR and not directly competing with SQ in its market segment.


25 qfa787380 : 320/320Neo JQ expansion is about it at this stage. Pretty sad day really and I wonder what is in store next week!
26 LAXintl : You might personally, but what is the profile of the average Hawaii traveler? Its leisure obviously, and QF group has a more cost effective leisure b
27 SonomaFlyer : 1. They are getting KILLED in the Australia to Europe segment. Since there is no aircraft which can go non-stop to Europe from SYD or MEL, you have to
28 Airvan00 : Appears to be 2 flights per day to LHR via SIN. No mention of FRA, if they we going to announce its demise, they would have done so with the HKG-LHR
29 Quokka : In an earlier report on ABC News website this morning there was a reference to either Japan or China, but went on to say that no final decision had b
30 Post contains images allrite : Strange things may be happening in Malaysia. MH and AirAsia are doing an equity swap and from what I've read the intent is that MH will concentrate o
31 Docpepz : I hope QF realises that whatever they do in Malaysia, the powers that be need a cut, and people need to be fed. National and commercial interests are
32 allrite : Qantas have been making a lot of noise about expanding in China lately. But setting yourself up anywhere other than Hong Kong sounds like a scary pro
33 dlnz : Of course it is leisure. But there is leisure and then there is leisure. One sees HNL and the islands as an alternative to Bali or HKT, and stays at
34 C010T3 : There is only need for connections once daily each way, thrice weekly. EZE is not ideal, because LAN does not offer any connections to Brazil there.
35 Airvan00 : I vote for HKG for the premium carrier, only on the basis that they announced a new F lounge in HKG. Why would they do that if they are cutting QF 29
36 LipeGIG : Very long routes such as SYD-EZE are not such strong routes as it demand premium traffic to sustain it and i doubt that Qantas could find this mix in
37 The Coachman : Unimaginative IMHO. Chopping QF1/2 is fine - one could probably still do it flying QF metal to BKK and then BA metal from there to LHR, I don't see ei
38 cchan : Can I assume these changes will be effective from the 2012 northern summer schedule around end of March, early April?
39 FSDan : As far as North America service, I could see the following: Drop LAX-AKL Hand one of the two daily LAX-SYD flights over to AA. AA could fly JFK-LAX-SY
40 CXB77L : ... which is why they're refurbishing the interiors of the 9 remaining 744/744ERs. These aircraft are nowhere near retirement age, so using a fully p
41 smi0006 : With the retirement of four B744 resulting in 1000 jobs being lost, I think this shows the 787s will be heading to JQ first... Unless QF plan to get t
42 The Coachman : They were already going to do that, that is not new news. The problem is that perception is king and anyone flying 744's are deemed "old" irrespectiv
43 Post contains images allrite : JAL would probably have wanted/needed to setup a LCC arm anyway in Japan to compete with ANA's Peach/AirAsia JV. My understanding is that the premium
44 gemuser : Not according to the announcement. QF will operate a three class B744 reconfigured with the A380 product, three times a week to SCL, with plans for d
45 gemuser : Sorry, very strong disagreement! Most customers would not have the faintest idea what aircraft they were flying, their only reference point is the st
46 qf002 : I think SIN is more likely, just because it seems to be emerging at a major focus for QF... They will still have their ten weekly SYD flights, a dail
47 Lufthansa : I'm wondering about the old bangkok airport Don Muang. Orient Thai is there but its obviously capable of handling a big international operation plus
48 Airvan00 : Looks like the last 2 will be sans F, which is intresting, maybe dedicated to BNE-LAX ??
49 aerokiwi : Well there goes the theory that they earnt a sufficient premium on any route they were used, thereby warranting ownership/posession.
50 Baroque : You would have thought. Presumably when BA gets its 380s, competition on one of those routes is going to be more intense from within One World as wel
51 qf002 : The new airline needs to connect to Australian services to work... SIN and HKG are really the only options, because they're the only two airports tha
52 kiwiandrew : Why? I don't think the new airline is being established with Aussie consumers in mind, if it is, then it will be doomed to failure. Like it or not th
53 RAGAZZO777 : That's great news for SCL ! So happy for my SCL-based friends ! Qantas' new service to Santiago also means the resumption of 747 service into SCL. I
54 thegeek : That sums it up quite succinctly. God forbid having reasonable connections in HKG for BNE-LHR in both directions. As many others have said, deferring
55 blueflyer : Excellent analysis! And you lost me! Qantas can try and rebrand itself as a premium airline if it wants to, but that image will quickly be tarnished
56 Post contains images flythere : Still they will connect pax through BKK and HKG, just that it is no longer in their own metal on 2nd leg. Just to my wonder how premium could it be w
57 gigneil : The full route SYD-SCL-GRU is, in fact a good 300 mi further than via EZE. Irrelevant. The LAN hub is needed. Big wins for airbus and the NEO. NS
58 abrelosojos : More to come by August 24th. The challenge is that Qantas (or, within management) does not really know what it wants to be. Keep seeing those paradox.
59 mdword1959 : It's not all moonlight and roses, the hiatus from acquiring "Flagship's of the 21st Century" is a significant setback for the A380 program.
60 Post contains links AeroplaneFreak : Only the final six of the remaing ten A380 orders are being defered. Frames #11,12,13 and 14 will be deliveried by the end of next year. http://a380pr
61 thegeek : What of SYD-SIN-FRA? Others have said this flight goes out quite full much of the time. RASM may not be as high as the LHR routes, but what would you
62 gigneil : As long as they do in fact receive them, all should be well. NS
63 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : I don´t really think so - that was a decision taken on purely economic grounds. IMO its the B787 order [for Qantas] which is much endangered: http:/
64 Post contains links keesje : Alan Joyce says Boeing is confident that it will be able to deliver Qantas' first long-delayed 787 in the second half of next year. However, he says,
65 vheca : I apologise in advance, as I do not pretend to know the aviation industry, but I have deciphered the following: QF to reduce staff and metal on intern
66 mdword1959 : That's a non sequitur, please explain.
67 gemuser : Disagree completely! My take on aircraft allocations: 9 B744(3)/B744ERs(6): SYD-SCL 2 SYD-JNB 2 SYD-LAX 2 (2nd daily) SYD-SIN-FRA 3 14 A380s: SYD/MEL
68 truemanQLD : Hey, if I spent billions on an aircraft that was nearly 5 years late, I would be a lot ruder :P A brilliant idea really, work in partnership with JL
69 Post contains images IndianicWorld : No, he was just being realistic. I think they are past the point of being diplomatic by now Pretty much . In summary, its reducing costs, by using a
70 Baroque : He probably has been off air as it were. But there must be a point even in that saga where financial considerations trump rudeness as a strategy. In
71 N14AZ : If it would have been a cancelation I would have agreed with you but I am not so sure if Airbus is too unhappy about this since it gives them the opp
72 thegeek : BNE-LAX could see 787s or a mix of 787/744 or a daily 744 depending on demand. I can accept that one as being possible. MEL-HKG I would disagree. It
73 Lufthansa : You have forgot one thing. once the new carrier is set up, it can be the new carrier that flies from the hub to the major australian cities. What got
74 Baroque : On the positive side, an A380 delayed a couple of years, looks like being a much better A380. In other news, some QF staff are comparing AJ to Sol Tr
75 A520 : Exactly, strange that this has not been noticed!
76 Baroque : Must be because the 110 is such a surprise that the implications of the 194 is just too much to think about. About as amazing as the first effort to
77 UAL777UK : I never understood why QF opened this route in the first place what with it being dominated by two OW carriers already. IMHO it time CX and QF put a
78 alangirvan : What will happen to the six A380s? They become white tails, so Airbus will try to offload them at a nice price. Will they go to an existing operator?
79 Post contains images N14AZ : I am pretty sure they have not yet been constructed or even parts of them. So far there are no MSNs for QF's final 6 A 380, well, at least in the int
80 richardw : mmm who are the other operators likely to be?
81 col : They are a few years away, so an adjustment in the build program. Some carriers may want earlier positions, so do not see any white tails in the 380
82 flood : Indeed. I believe we're also still waiting on the Hainan / Qatar order... they may appreciate some earlier slots.
83 koruman : Joyce has really shown that Qantas management has learned nothing from the inroads made by Emirates, Etihad and for that matter Virgin Australia virtu
84 col : Am also wondering if the 787 has some responsibility in the situation QF finds itself. I know there are probably many issues, but QF did seem to put
85 N14AZ : Airbus' Regional Manager Middle East recently said they could have sold more VVIP A 380s if only they would have been able to offer earlier productio
86 truemanQLD : So since QF is dropping HKG-LHR, maybe this will improve CX/QF relations, though I doubt it. Would be nice if they worked together like they should. I
87 RyanairGuru : I think that just about sums up Qantas' problems: they are solving yesterday's problems tomorrow. I don't have my crystal ball to hand right now so I
88 truemanQLD : There is no 'magic cure' for QF dilemma. QF is naturally disadvantaged by its geographical position. Also, have you seen the public reaction to the s
89 BA174 : In A380 economy maybe better against BAs offer but in F/J BA win hands down e.g. having proper flat beds in J instead of the sloped skybeds and a bra
90 travelhound : Yes, but we have to remember QF will only be flying their A380's to HKG & BKG and loading their passengers onto BA flights. This means even thoug
91 BA174 : BA are in a miles better position than QF. I do not see BA having any current problems e.g. being back in profit, recruiting 800 new pilots, crew dis
92 scouseflyer : That's a plan pick a friendly middle-eastern or north African country and invest in a transit hub there as a smaller DXB,
93 koruman : Why do you say that? We can build an international hub in any number of Asian or Middle Eastern countries, and we have five times the population of S
94 C010T3 : I think he's already aware of that, but since QF is not continuing the flight to Brazil anyway, it's better for them to fly a shorter route to SCL. H
95 na : The 9 744s being updated to A380 standard will for 99,99% surely be the last 3 RR powered ones (built 1999/2000) and the 6 ERs from 2003. All other 74
96 Ronaldo747 : Thats insane, I'm sorry. Qantas could have operating the 777-200LR and 777-300ER (with a pretty discount because of the 787 delay!) since at least fi
97 Post contains images robffm2 : Not to take any responsibility away from Qantas management, but your statement assumes that Boeing right from the first delay said that the 787 would
98 Post contains images Ronaldo747 : Pretty discounts on later delivered frames? and other goodies e.g. sort of maintenance as well. There are a couple of possibilities ...
99 LHRFlyer : I don't think that is a fair comment today. Five years ago you could have said that, but all of BA's major structural problems (pensions deficit, wor
100 Zkpilot : I'd say all will be 4 class. There was talk of dropping plans for 3 class previously too. The A380 is still delayed so those slots will simply reduce
101 nclmedic : What does this mean for Qantas Cabin Crew UK Ltd? With fewer flights to LHR this has got to mean lay-offs for LHR-based crew?
102 thegeek : AIUI they only cover 2/4 LHR flights anyway.
103 airbazar : Two things about this: 1) If Jetstar will own the LC market and this new carrier will own the premium market, what will be left for Qantas? 2) A320's
104 CXB77L : OJR has already been stored.
105 anstar : With only 2 QF flights going to LHR next year and an EBA that requires I believe Aussie crews to ops at least one of the lfights - does it make sense
106 allrite : Today's announcements showed a very risk averse Qantas, mainly cutting or redirecting international routes. Naturally that's disappointing to aviation
107 cv990coronado : I expect the direct fares from LON to SYD/MEL and v.v. to increase considerably as a result of QF and BA reducing frequency. Especially the premium fa
108 Flyingsottsman : Agree with that BA have done well. I think there are a few people at QF wishing it was JB at the helm and AJ gone. I am not suprised that EZE will be
109 Post contains images qf002 : Not really. If the two more capable A380s are dedicated to the DFW route (because they are actually necessary on it) then it's just a matter of poten
110 gemuser : All three statement are total "RUBBISH"!!! You are ALL forgetting what this announcement REALLY is. It is the classic "pull back and regroup". They a
111 SonomaFlyer : Those same gulf carriers will keep fares down.
112 col : So what you are saying is that QF should not have trusted Boeing to deliver on it's contract. Every delay QF should have known Boeing were just guess
113 Quokka : Perhaps this will become clearer in the coming days and on 24th August. 1) While QF may be reducing its frequencies to LHR the demographic changes in
114 gemuser : Mentioned that in another thread. Looks to me as if QF have side stepped that problem. They have NOT moved any QF operations off shore, the new Asian
115 jfk777 : Qantas is eliminating uneccesary capacity to LHR and using only A380's from Sydney and Melbourne, customers will be guarranteed an A380 WOW. QF is go
116 Post contains images qf002 : QF's A380s (which is all that will be flying into LHR) have a far superior product to BA across the board. F is different, but ultimately very simila
117 mogandoCI : someone explain what the heck is a "premium asian" airline using only A320 when all others fly 330/777/747/380 intra-Asia with full 3-class service, s
118 qf002 : QF is following a model akin to Silkair (the shorthaul subsidiary that SQ has), and to a lesser extend Dragonair (though they are bigger). Most fligh
119 LAXdude1023 : Could DFW going daily be part of the 24th announcement?
120 smi0006 : Just read through the investor report:http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/about/investors/BuildingaStrongerQantasInvestorPresentation.pdf 787 was only
121 Quokka : Premium services are not limited to wide-bodies, surely? Look at old Imperial Airways services, long before the advent of wide-bodies, and can you sug
122 smi0006 : We still haven't seen where the 787s are destined yet, perhaps some will be sent to this new Asian venture as well... Thus a fleet of A320s and 787s o
123 mogandoCI : given equal pricing and service levels, people prefer wide-bodies QF is up against top tier carriers such as SQ, TG, CX, NH, OZ... so given that QF/J
124 Post contains images Quokka : Has any in depth analysis been made? Have any questionnaires asked "do you prefer a wide body as opposed to a narrow body?" Not being facetious but I
125 B747forever : What do you mean with that?
126 Baroque : Bad day for Oz humour it seems. Which is fairly odd because you could argue that the QF announcement is Oz humour at its best. Essentially missed AJ o
127 Post contains images col : Maybe three less Virgins for him to disappoint? I must admit I do have a preference for a wider body, or am I on the wrong forum
128 airbazar : Silkair is neither a premium nor a short haul carrier. They're SIA's regional subsidiary. Their customer base is exactly the same as SQ's customer ba
129 IndianicWorld : When someone mentioned that DJ/VA was working their way up, and QF was on it's way down the product ladder, it seems abit shirt sighted to say this. F
130 United Airline : So BA will retire 4 B 747-400s? Out of the 51 which are in service or from the stood down ones? So are they starting HKG-BKK?
131 smi0006 : I would suggest though that SQs target market is often the premium passenger? I believe what QF are referring to by premium is full-service same as S
132 Post contains images Quokka : Simply the number of people who tend to the whims of passengers in flight might change, but as Baroque pointed out, possibly in another context: It i
133 United Airline : Will these cuts ever return?
134 mogandoCI : i put the question back to you - can you show research that says people don't care NB v. WB ? people in domestic US market go for NB because they hav
135 United Airline : Sorry I misread the article. No HKG-BKK obviously. Sorry Will QF keep SYD-BKK? Will BA keep BKK-LHR?[Edited 2011-08-16 10:52:14]
136 B747forever : Why on earth would BA give up on BKK?
137 Post contains images Quokka : Given that the original claim in this thread is that people prefer the WB surely it is incumbent on those who make the claim to support it. I merely
138 airbazar : There is plenty of evidence of that. Asian carriers have for the most part, misused widebody aircraft on short/medium haul routes because their custo
139 Post contains links AeroWesty : I would guess there's been some research done in that arena: http://blog.delta.com/2011/06/14/update-wi-fi-and-flat-bed-seats/ "who doesn’t love a
140 ikramerica : Living life for 35+ years and traveling a lot, I've never met a person who didn't prefer a widebody over a narrowbody. Never. Ever. Just my experienc
141 flythere : The new F class lounge at HKG is really a big question mark, suppose it wont be for JQ HK (if it really comes true). Wonder what kind of premium pax i
142 BA174 : Yes and Yes. Simple answer.
143 LHRFlyer : Don't forget that BA and Qantas operate joint business and first lounges at HKG and BA will operate up to three services a day from HKG with First cl
144 BA174 : The lounge in HKG is a BA lounge that QF use. So really BA are improving the lounge with an influence from QF. Does anyone know for sure if the QF UK
145 Viscount724 : But how much traffic is there between Australia and points like LIM/BOG/GYE/COR/MDZ compared to EZE? I would guess that all of them combined are much
146 bill142 : I'm lost as to where people are getting this idea QF will only have one daily flight into LHR. Last I checked QF 31 and QF 9 both went through SIN an
147 kiwiandrew : I think you need to read what BA174 wrote rather than what you think he wrote. He quite clearly stated that he was talking about the UK crew base. Th
148 anstar : It seems that QF have seen what Virgin Australia are doing with their strategy and have decided it is the way forward. Virgin have for about 12-18 mo
149 Post contains links MAS777 : Malaysia Airlines may well fit like a glove... QF gets to put many Europe bound passengers on an MH aircraft for destinations like AMS, FRA, CDG, FCO
150 Zkpilot : Yes The LHR base (QCCUK) has survived. In fact it is slightly expanding (currently SIN-LHR is not quite 2x A380 daily...there are still the odd 744 S
151 kiwiandrew : Thanks for clarifying that, I obviously misunderstood how the EBA works.
152 jfk777 : With Malaysia Air going to OneWorld its almost a certainty that BA will once again fly to Kuala Lumpur.
153 Springbok747 : Will they change their logo from a kangaroo to a panda?
154 airbazar : And the new airline's name will be QUANTAS.
155 col : Or maybe just code share on MH flights. MH have two flights per day to LHR and the BA/QF regional hub is a few hundred miles south of KL in SIN.
156 allrite : First 7.30 Report I've seen in a long time and I was appalled. Leigh kept asking the wrong questions or making wrong assertions along the lines of "A
157 travelhound : I wouldn't go that far. QANTAS has had JSA agreements with BA and AA for a very long time. They are expanding those relationships and starting new on
158 AAExecPlat : I have read most of this thread plus the announcement, and here's what I am reading between the lines: We at Qantas are hurting. As a result, we will:
159 eaglefarm4 : Airbazar for quite a few of us, Qantas has failed to exist for many years and decades.The QANT( Queensland and Northern Territory ) part of it should
160 gemuser : Try an airline like Silk Air & Dragon Air rather than the main players. That's apparently what it will be aimed at, hence the narrow bodies. Also
161 allrite : I suspect that plans for widebody/long-haul destinations, including Australia, for the Asian airline will be kept quiet for a while to avoid a union
162 AirNiugini : You are absolutely right. CX, SQ, TG and MH will fight like hell to retain that segment of the market. They already have a developed brand, networks
163 Post contains links alaskaqantas : I've heard rumors that the 747 was getting the fully flat Skybeds, but was glad to see it in ink as a part of their future plans... anyone have info o
164 kiwiandrew : given all the rumours that QF may drop the sector altogether I would be surprised to see an upgrade to lie-flat on this route. There was a time when
165 allrite : The risk is that Qantas will not have control of the entity and thus open themselves up to higher risks. There is a lot of political interference in
166 gemuser : According to one of yesterdays announcements all 9 B744s being retained are scheduled to have the refit by end 2012, the others will not be refitted.
167 Post contains links Airvan00 : There have been so many announcements it is hard to follow it all, but here is a slightly different version about the timetable for the refit of the
168 thegeek : Does anyone else think this recent announcement is getting what might be perceived as the bad news out of the way? Or perhaps I am being optimistic th
169 Airvan00 : Yes I agree. That's why I said somewhere on here that as FRA wasn't mentioned, that it would remain. Also the announcement is a shot across the bows
170 Arcano : Is this a sign of LATAM chosing Oneworld instead of Star Alliance??? Great news, cant wait to ride 747s back in Santiago!
171 United Airline : When ALL A380s are delivered, will they order more+exercise the options? And when they are all delivered will these routes be back?
172 Airvan00 : I'm not sure anyone can guess what the world finincial situation will be like next year, let alone in 8 years. Maybe in 2020 they will order 20 more
173 thegeek : Very, very unlikely, particularly HKG-LHR returning. Although 2019 is a long way away, and most CEOs don't last that long, so it is possible about th
174 Baroque : Arguably, better a lame attempt than a sterling effort at being humourless one might argue. This issue of what you can do with NBs is going to be imp
175 RAGAZZO777 : To me, it is. SCL is an oneworld hub and that's why Qantas is moving its South American service there.
176 Post contains links koruman : I don't think that that is the actual issue - and if it is it is foolish, as there is a 50% chance that LAN will be defecting to Star Alliance, just
177 kiwiandrew : I don't think that is the actual issue either, considering that the LAN takeover of TAM has not yet been approved ( although it looks all but certain
178 vhebb : Anyone know when the new schedules will be loaded? I assume the new turnaround SYD-BKK-SYD and MEL-HKG-MEL services will operate at different times to
179 fiscal : "...Our deepening alliance relationships create more opportunities for all Frequent Flyers to earn and redeem points: Any Seat Redemptions with no les
180 gemuser : I actually think it is a major issue. I'll bet that QF have an iron clad assurance that that LAN won't leave OneWorld, at the very least, otherwise t
181 allrite : Couldn't they just code-share with LAN even if it was in another alliance? They already do it with several non-OneWorld airlines.
182 gemuser : Yes, they could. But I don't think you would get the OneWorld hype if QF did not have reason to beleive that LAN, at least, will stay in OneWorld. Of
183 Baroque : And have you ever experienced a change in the FF program that left you happier? I certainly have not.They have a very short term view of what is freq
184 kiwiandrew : I think perhaps you misunderstood my post, I don't think it was an issue simply because I don't believe anyone ( other than possibly Koruman) ever be
185 Lufthansa : QF need feed from all over Latin America to make this work. Given AR moved most of its latin america flights to AEP rather than EZE... if LAN did cho
186 Airvan00 : I think all these changes have been negotiated with the airlines concerned over a long period. How else can QF announce changes to BA's flight schedu
187 ZKSUJ : None of the LHR flights will have Ozzie crew on them. LHR crew will take over these and also they will do the FRA route as well
188 qfa787380 : No, I suspect these 6 380s will be eventually cancelled.
189 Post contains images Airvan00 : Why do you suspect that? What are they going to replace the 744ER's with? Maybe the 320neo's will have enough range by then
190 Post contains links Springbok747 : An interesting article from Crikey.. http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...time-for-real-figures-from-qantas/
191 gemuser : FY19 is a long way away, I think its much too early to say this. It all depends on traffic growth, which in turn depends the economic enviroment. It
192 tayser : 2 747s on MEL-HKG would mean double daily services... Hong Kong's just within range of Melbourne in order for a 2 hour turn around at both ends (tech
193 IndianicWorld : Very true. The Reasons for cutting the routes also relate to allowing planes to be retired, so 1 plane will likely be all that is needed for that sec
194 gemuser : Not totally correct, not totally wrong. The slots BA will get do have a specific time attached, BUT they don't HAVE to use them to HKG. Given the num
195 smi0006 : The QF reports do clearly highlight an increase in services to Asia, I wouldn't be surprised if such examples are the case. Again the 787s weren't me
196 Post contains images qf002 : Well they are premium in the sense that QF means (ie not a LCC), and they are generally a short haul carrier (coming from an Aussie who considers the
197 thegeek : Now that makes sense, and that QF have agreed with LA that the feed will be provided regardless of alliance is the only plausible explanation so far.
198 IndianicWorld : That would be an interesting idea. It is risky though, as its quite a narrow target market, with higher costs and fares involved. That could be the c
199 qf002 : Doubt this... SYD is currently a terminator and a bigger market and gets a daily 744, two weekly A333 and a weekly A332. I think a daily A333 is goin
200 Lufthansa : One more thing people are fogetting. Thanks for the tip will watch it online. I'm almost cetain now the 787s are gonna be heading to this new hub. At
201 Post contains images Springbok747 : BTW...can someone tell me why QF cut SFO for four times weekly flights to DFW? QF claimed, passengers could make better connections using its AA Onewo
202 thegeek : Was SYD-SFO daily? I thought 5x weekly.
203 Lufthansa : Yeah SFO wasn't daily. it hasn't been daily since before united went daily the first time QF gave it up in like 94 or something. There is a chance tha
204 Post contains links and images AirNiugini : I must admit, that I threw a little "man-tantrum" when I heard the news about QF shedding 1000 jobs. But I have slept, eaten and cleared my brain... I
205 qf002 : Actually, this is a pure and simple fact. SFO was useless for connections (AA has no major hub there), and DFW is their biggest fortress hub. There i
206 gemuser : 5 weekly Gemuser
207 qf002 : You learn something new everyday! Cheers for that.
208 BA174 : They have had two diversions to NOU and one to AKL since it started and the weather diversion to IAH. People having to have their bags routed through
209 cloudyapple : It doesn't actually say it's an F lounge and it doesn't say it will be a new lounge at HKG. It says "new and refreshed premium lounges" only. Could s
210 Post contains links OzGlobal : Correction: QF confirm new FIRST lounges in Singapore and Hong Kong: http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn.../details?ArticleID=2011/aug11/5161
211 BA174 : I do not expect the remaining A380 orders to be delivered. I would think other airlines might buy up part or all of the remaining six orders.
212 qf002 : The original posting by Springbok747 referred to the SYD-DFW leg, and as I stated there have been no operational issues with that leg. It's the DFW-B
213 Post contains links and images airbazar : The original posting by Springbok747 referred to the SYD-DFW leg, and as I stated there have been no operational issues with that leg. It's the DFW-B
214 VictorKilo : I'm thinking that LAX-AKL would make a good route for an AA 772 instead of JQ.
215 Post contains links qf002 : Apparently there are no more route changes: AirNiugini - is this the right link? Nothing is mentioned on that page... Edit - to answer my own questio
216 Richard28 : The business plan says specifically that these last 6 A380's will eventually replace the B744ER's.
217 gemuser : The discussion is about SYD-DFW, NOT DFW-BNE. There have been no range related diversions eastbound, there has been one weather related that affected
218 Post contains images AirNiugini : Yeah man thats the one I meant to add... Apologies
219 RyanairGuru : I *know* that there are apparently no more cuts to come, but an AA 763 would be better than a 772. And if there are to be no cuts, maybe an upgrade f
220 kiwiandrew : A 763 on LAX-AKL? I didn't know that Boeing made a floatplane version. At least they better have made one with floats, if not it is going to be in se
221 RyanairGuru : OK, good point! I based that comment off a rumour a while back (when they started SYD I think) that DL would do LAX-AKL with a 767. I never bothered
222 Post contains images qf002 : I think that the A332 is the right plane for this route at the moment. I daresay it's earmarked as an early 787 route for QF.
223 Post contains images kiwiandrew : or JQ
224 darenw : Would be nice if they had premium economy on the A332 through to New York
225 Post contains images ADDICT4QF : Has anyone heard any whispers as to what will happen with QF5/6 Frankfurt and whether it will go to Berlin instead, to take advantage of Air Berlin as
226 Post contains links qf002 : Again, no more changes. See this link... Would love to see a SIN-BER open up in the future though - maybe with a 787 and once AB are actually in OW.
227 RyanairGuru : Sorry to be a devils advocate (and hopefully I wont put my foot in it again!) but nothing in the linked article (or anything else that springs to min
228 Post contains links and images tayser : I wouldn't be surprised if LA 's services to Australia end up going non-stop with 1 or 2 of the 787s they have on order... http://tinyurl.com/443ky5o
229 qf002 : That is true, thinking about it... Would love a multitude of European destinations to be opened up with 332s now then moved to 787s down the track (w
230 Post contains links and images tayser : hey................ have a captain cook at this: http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/a-new-spirit/global/en That's a big up yours to Cathay if yo
231 koruman : I think that this misses the bus as badly as Virgin Australia's Etihad link, to be honest. I firmly believe that for Australian airlines the key long
232 Post contains links Baroque : I will be surprised if this does not happen. And make the A380 Premium compartment much larger. Also maybe not have it in the most noisy part of a ve
233 qfa787380 : And I'll be surprised if it does and my mail is they would have deferred 13 and 14 if they could have.
234 Post contains images The Coachman : Your logic, with all due respect, does not follow. You say that the only airport that QF or Virgin Australia [sic] can deliver W is LHR. How many air
235 qf002 : QF seem to think the sweet spot is around the 30-40 mark... The new 744 configuration includes 36 seats (iirc), and most other operators fly their pl
236 koruman : The Harbison article is the sort of arrant nonsense I expect to hear from Joyce's mouth. Why can Asian and Middle-Eastern carriers operate a hub and
237 RyanairGuru : I think that is, in a sense, part of QF's problems. Their premium cabins (F, J and W) are uncompetively priced! This might sound ridiculous but a sig
238 koruman : Er, yes. Singapore Airlines are in disarray at the moment. They have, as you have written, avoided Premium Economy for fear of cannibalising a Busine
239 Baroque : All true, although on the A380, it could be a bit bigger without appearing like a large hall. But it does seem to be more noisy than the same distanc
240 The Coachman : Not if the ticket price had to be higher in order to make a profit because QF would be reliant on Adelaide feed and anyone connecting in SIN. Therein
241 qfa787380 : Relevance please! I highly suspect that QF don't want their last 6(8) 380s. Regionalisation of the airline has sort of seen to that and this isn't a
242 Aware : CEO today on use of A320 for the new Asia premium airline (from Business Spectator article): "And we believe the product that we’ll have on this air
243 RyanairGuru : Obviously Asian travelers (and especially Asian business travelers) are very exacting in the standards they expect, but to have a better product than
244 qf002 : Interesting. IMO this confirms the view that this airlines is being set up to provide connections for Australian pax into Asia. Points towards having
245 The Coachman : Looks like they've taken CASM out of the equation. The slot capacity at quite a few airports that would be possible markets for such a premium heavy
246 koruman : That is not how I interpret it, not at all. It says to me that just as Singapore Airlines has become an airline of choice for well-heeled Indonesians
247 qf002 : Well we will see, but seriously? Macau as the new QF hub?? What have you been smoking today koruman?
248 Post contains links IndianicWorld : ^^ MFM could make sense, given its stragegic location, and the huge gambling market market that exists there. Its not the biggest city on its own, but
249 kiwiandrew : We don't often agree Koruman, but I (partially) agree with you on this. I don't think the proposed new QF venture in Asia is aimed at Australians at
250 IndianicWorld : ^^ I think that this carrier will need to reach a broader market at the start than that alone though. To build up a base, it needs to work off somethi
251 qf002 : Well we'll all just have to agree to disagree... QF has acknowledged that it needs to be expanding to more destinations throughout Asia in order to r
252 ditzyboy : Given the quotes regarding flat beds in J and "better than A380" Y, I would suggest these 320s will have a seating capacity of around 102-110. Saudi
253 Post contains links allrite : MAS to setup regional full service subsidiary via FireFly called Sapphire. Qantas will need a local partner for their premium venture. I'm guess that
254 flythere : Joyce mentioned that it would be half of normal single-class configured A320 of 180 seats, ie 90 seats on each plane. Suppose this less-condensed con
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