Hamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2761 posts, RR: 58 Posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2498 times:
Although this is only a tiny fraction from a more comprehensive article dealing with United's current financial situation, it is an interesting comment none-the-less. IMO, it also gives the first confirmation that UA is looking to off-load some of their 744 fleet.
From second-to-last paragraph: It also said it's accelerating the retirement of its Boeing 727s and converting operations at several airports to United Express and cutting capital spending plans to save roughly $300 million. One executive said United was "long" on Boeing 747-400s and "if we could sell them, we would."
Now, the original story I kept hearing is that UA would exchange 12-20 747-400's for 777-300ER's. Boeing would take the 744's, and they would be the basis for a -400 conversion program, and would subsequently be sold to Atlas Air. Given United's current and forecasted finicial outlook, it seems doubtful that they would have the resources available for a 773ER purchase (this is, afterall, Boeing's most expensive model). Instead, it seems they are simply looking at selling a few 744's. However, Atlas has also been having a tough time recently, and have publicly stated that their forcasted market is not nearly what it used to be, which means it is doubtful they would be in the market for UA's 744's.
Wingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2421 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2340 times:
Here's another crazy rumor. How about an SIA switch to GE90s from the RR Trents? Someone on PPRUNE apparently quoted an FI article alluding to this. SIA apparently displeased at the number of IFSDs on the RRs. This coupled, I'm sure, with a super sweet deal from Beoing and GE of some LRs perhaps. Probably all pure speculation but who knows.
In terms of 773s for UA, I would seriously give these babies away just to keep Airbus out of their long-range equation. Take in the 744s with deep discounts on the 773s and this would squelch any talk of 345/6s. Would never happen. Too many 744s....doesn't bode well for 380 sales to UA any time soon either. I think this economic downturn is reminding everyone that shit does happen, and when it does, capacity is the first thing to go.
Boeing747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2324 times:
Yes it is just a rumor. If this was serious, more people would be talking about than just one "executive". United simply doesn't have to money to make any changes to the fleet like that.
Also, if UAL wanted to cut capacity, why go for the B773ER? It serves as a 747 classic replacement, so it wouldn't be much of a downgrade of capacity than the 744s. I still don't see why some actually take this little rumor seriously.
Also, I think someone was talking about engine deal problems with UAL getting the B773ER, was it TEDSKI or B747-437B? I also remember B747-437B gave us very good, and many reasons why this won't indeed happen.
UA's 744s are too young, UA has 44 of them. The 747 plays a MAJOR role in Australia and Asian routes for UA. They can't afford to rid of any 744s, they are cash cows, especially on the Asian routes.
Raggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 1006 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2266 times:
The 773ER would suit UAL perfectly as a replacement for some of their 744s. Keep the same number of First and Business seats, while a bit less coach seats than in the 744. The 773`s outstanding cargo capacity, the fuel efficiency of a twin and the overall benefits of a newer design compared to the 744 could make, in my opinion, an order for the 773ER not unlikely...
The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6705 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2261 times:
I don't think it would make any sense to replace the 744s for the reasons already mentioned above. In the press release for the second quarter result, Goodwin said that UA will "defer delivery of new aircraft" in order to minimize losses. I think UA will still take 777s and Airbuses for this year but I'm not sure if UA will take all on order for next year. I think it's a safe bet that UA will not order any new model of airplanes for a while. The777Man
Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
ILUV767 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3141 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2193 times:
And in regards to capacity, if UA gets the 777-300, it would barely hold 300 passengers in how United configures their aircraft.
Nate, I agree for the most part on that. People fail to realize that the 744s seat 14 in first, 73 in biz, and 260 in back, which isnt even 350 passengers. If the 773ER comes from Boeing with 365 seats, in United's config, it would probably seat around 310 to 325 people. If you just pull out some economy seats, and leave the large first and biz cabins, how much revenue is actually lost...if any?
Singapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13747 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2177 times:
Wingman: You are right, FI did do that and see my post for more details!!
Anyway, I think that for both airlines, the case is similar. They both want to cut costs down while retaining their current capacity (unless there is a serious recession or economic crisis). The 773LR is more fuel production, and efficient thatn the 744 while carrying a similar amount of pax.
However, I dunno about UA, but I don't think SIA will go for GE unless they get a discount for the massive inconvenience to SIAEC and the training of engineers. Stupid Boeing.
Hamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2761 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (13 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2125 times:
Would you have any idea how much utilization UA gets out of their 744 fleet, and what their average load factors are? I realize that this might be hard to obtain, but you're one of the most connected to UA on this board, so it's worth asking?
As I stated before, I don't see a 773ER order in the near future, but I do think we'll see UA try and dispose of part of their 744 fleet (probably only 5-10 birds at first). Rememeber, that capacity is only valuable when it is used. In the current economic downturn, that 'extra' capacity can turn into a money vacuum virtually overnight.
As one last note, it should be pointed out that United's 61 777 (and last under current orders) will be delivered in May of next year. This means that their options must be close to fruition, and it will be interesting to see if UA choses to let the first ones expire.