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UA's "new" 2-cabin Int'l 763  
User currently offlinetpaewr From United States of America, joined May 2001, 450 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 16422 times:

Maybe some fun idle speculation on the plans for these birds? Clearly their missions are shifting to long haul int'l or they would not be refitted. Some will likely replace 752s X/EWR. But i suspect we will see some new routes. I would put *A hubs are the *top* of the list. EWR-VIE/IST/WAW all are very viable I believe.


I think we could also see additional deep S America (eg return to SCL)


Or maybe something out of left field? EWR-DKR-JNB (CO tried this with WO M11s in the mid-90s)

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedeltamartin From Sweden, joined Dec 2010, 1061 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 16338 times:

Quoting tpaewr (Thread starter):
EWR-VIE/IST/WAW all are very viable I believe.

ARN, CPH and OSL would be likely aswell I guess.


User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3635 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 16226 times:

I can see IAH-LIM return as a BF flight with these new 763s.

From CO/UA And Latin America possibly IAH-SCL. I would also like to see new IAH-Europe but those may be on 3-class or 788s.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlinelaxboeingman From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 531 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 16067 times:

I believe they could also fly to more destinations in Germany as well. I think it is great that UA is doing this. Would this be done if they did not make a profit?

Thank you for answers/comments,

laxboeingman



The real American classics: LAX and Boeing.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days ago) and read 15786 times:

A lot of the speculation depends on the 762 plans, if the plan is to rapidly phase out the remaining 8 762s by next Summer then a big chunk of these newly configured 763s will go to those routes:

EWR-
1 MUC- MXP 1- GRU 1-

IAH-
EZE 1- GRU 1-

Beyond those routes I can see going to the newly converted 763s;

EWR-
CPH 1- ARN 1- OSL 1- MAD 1- BCN 1 - AMS 1- TXL 1-



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days ago) and read 15756 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
Beyond those routes I can see going to the newly converted 763s;

EWR-
CPH 1- ARN 1- OSL 1- MAD 1- BCN 1 - AMS 1- TXL 1-

I also expect them to replace some of the 3-class 763s out of IAD and ORD so that premium-heavy routes out of Newark could get 3-class 767s. We're going to see lots of shifting going around!

I still think it will be some combination of: 762 replacement, 3-class 763 replacement (freeing those for Newark and elsewhere), upgauge on certain routes from 752 (freeing those 752s for additional routes).


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days ago) and read 15685 times:

There are these 14 reconfigured 767-300s as well as 6 787-8s coming aboard in 2012, so lots of possibilities for new flying even if UA decides to retire the remaining 762s.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15574 times:

I also wonder if they'll ever fully integrate the 777 fleets such that the PMCO 777s with GE engines will be flown all over the network, or if they'll try to keep them in one or two cities.

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15546 times:

I can't help but believe they will spread them out at least a little. Those max weight 777-200ERs are needed to Asia, including Kuwait and Dubai.

The non ER 777s will handle routes to Europe from EWR just fine.

NS


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15548 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 7):
I also wonder if they'll ever fully integrate the 777 fleets such that the PMCO 777s with GE engines will be flown all over the network, or if they'll try to keep them in one or two cities.

If costs were no obstacle the ideal role for the 22 PMCO 777-200ERs with the GE-90s would be three class Trans-Pacific flights from LAX, SFO, ORD, IAH, EWR and IAD. And the Pratt Powered PMUA 777-200ERs would be converted to two class flying to Latin America and Trans-Atlantic.

Still not convinced the PMUA three class 777s can make EWR-HKG with the same loads as PMCO's 777s.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineein105 From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15372 times:

What kind of configuration will/are these two class 767s going to be fitted with? I wonder will they be used on sone routes that CO Currently operates two daily 757s on, like DUB and MAN?

User currently offlinetpaewr From United States of America, joined May 2001, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14606 times:

Quoting ein105 (Reply 10):
I wonder will they be used on sone routes that CO Currently operates two daily 757s on, like DUB and MAN?

Keep in mind that a single 763 would be about the same J, but HUGE cut in Y v 2x 752. Markets like DUB and MAN are more Y based. Plus the 2X 752s let the pax be spread over diff banks in EWR.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):


Still not convinced the PMUA three class 777s can make EWR-HKG with the same loads as PMCO's 777s.

Interesting point, in the case of HKG PMUA's 744 flew JFK-HKG, and UA seems to employ the 744 to HKG v the 777 anyway. I expect EWR-HKG to go 744 in not too longOther ultra long hauls are anothre issue (eg BOM).

I suspect next year we will see big shifts, 2 cabins to cities like FCO and AMS from all hubs. With 3 cabin planes shifting to LHR and FRA from IAH and EWR.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13953 times:

Quoting tpaewr (Reply 11):
Interesting point, in the case of HKG PMUA's 744 flew JFK-HKG, and UA seems to employ the 744 to HKG v the 777 anyway. I expect EWR-HKG to go 744 in not too longOther ultra long hauls are anothre issue (eg BOM).

The UA 744 on JFK-HKG suffered severe weight restrictions, which contributed to it's short term operating.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 729 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13758 times:

The downside to all this is that widebodies are being pulled off of PMUA hub-hub routes. In October, here is what is left of the domestic widebody flights:

SFO-ORD/ORD-SFO 2x 763
SFO-IAH/IAH-SFO 1x 763
SFO-IAD/IAD-SFO 1x763 1x 777

LAX-DEN/DEN-LAX 1x 763 1x 777
LAX-IAD/IAD-LAX 1x 763 1x 777

DEN-ORD/ORD-DEN 1x 777
DEN-IAD/IAD-DEN 1x 763

ORD-IAD/IAD-ORD 1x 763

I hope that even when all the domestic 763s and 777s are converted that there will still be a decent amount of repositioning flights.



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13519 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
Still not convinced the PMUA three class 777s can make EWR-HKG with the same loads as PMCO's 777s.

They're only 6000 pounds of difference in MTOW - but it is at the extreme range of the airframe. Were the CO 777s not just totally redone, I'd think they'd want to make at least several of the GE-90 powered ones 3 class for service from Newark and Dulles.

They still have plenty of opportunity to make some of the Pratt frames 2 class... but I'd think that some of the non-ER 777s would be just fine for 3 class service from Newark to Europe.

NS


User currently offlineaquariusHKG From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2010, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12914 times:

Quoting tpaewr (Reply 11):

Interesting point, in the case of HKG PMUA's 744 flew JFK-HKG, and UA seems to employ the 744 to HKG v the 777 anyway. I expect EWR-HKG to go 744 in not too longOther ultra long hauls are anothre issue (eg BOM).

As far as I remember the JFK-HKG route PMUA operated back in 2001 have huge restriction on load, so much that it made the route unprofitable. From what I heard even ORD-HKG is pushing on the range of the 744.

I don't see UA operate anything other than the PMCO 777 on the EWR-HKG route with its current fleet.


User currently onlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 1560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12753 times:
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They aren't going to use 2 class 777's on TransPac flights from SFO/LAX to Asia. It's their biggest premium market atm. They will move to maximize that revenue any way possible.

User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12593 times:

Quoting tpaewr (Reply 11):
in the case of HKG PMUA's 744 flew JFK-HKG, and UA seems to employ the 744 to HKG v the 777 anyway

As mentioned, with severe operating restrictions.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 13):
I hope that even when all the domestic 763s and 777s are converted that there will still be a decent amount of repositioning flights.

There will inevitably be many repositioning flights, and even if there is not widebody flights, there will be a ridiculous amount of hub-to-hub flights. Look at SFO-ORD now!

Quoting gigneil (Reply 14):


They still have plenty of opportunity to make some of the Pratt frames 2 class

I'm pretty sure the press release said they are going ahead with converting the rest of the Pratt frames to 3-classes.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 14):
but I'd think that some of the non-ER 777s would be just fine for 3 class service from Newark to Europe.

Sure, just like they are today on Dulles to Europe. I guess it boils down to the question of what routes from Newark warrant 3-class service at the expense of 3-class service from IAD? Some easy ones: Take a 3-class 777 off of IAD-FCO. Maybe even off of IAD-GRU. Same for the 3-class 767s: IAD-Accra/Lagos does not 3 classes.

It really is amazing the flexibility that they have, because moving a 3-class 777 off of a route doesn't mean it has to go to a 2-class 777. Between the 757 international fleet, and 2-class 767s and 777s, and 3-class 767 and 777s (ALL WITH LIE FLAT SEATS SOON!), they have INCREDIBLE flexibility.


User currently offlineTomFoolery From Austria, joined Jan 2004, 523 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11212 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
A lot of the speculation depends on the 762 plans, if the plan is to rapidly phase out the remaining 8 762s by next Summer then a big chunk of these newly configured 763s will go to those routes:

I did not realize the (CO?) 762s were being taken out of service. Would this also be the same fate of the 764 (as well? What is the reasoning for getting rid of the 762? They dont seem terribly old.

Tom



Paper makes an airplane fly
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5107 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11138 times:

Quoting TomFoolery (Reply 18):
What is the reasoning for getting rid of the 762?

They are heavy for the number of passengers they can carry, so their economics are not competitive with other international types anymore. They don't cost appreciably less than a 763 to fly.

Quoting TomFoolery (Reply 18):
Would this also be the same fate of the 764 (as well?

Definitely not. The 764 is still very competitive.

Also, we don't yet know for sure that the 762s will be sold. We just know that they are not getting upgraded to flat beds in J like the rest of the widebody fleet.



Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11106 times:

Quoting TomFoolery (Reply 18):
I did not realize the (CO?) 762s were being taken out of service. Would this also be the same fate of the 764 (as well? What is the reasoning for getting rid of the 762? They dont seem terribly old.

The 764 is not going anywhere. The 762, while fairly new in airplane years, suffers from a high CASM. Basically it costs the same to operate the 762 as it does the larger 763, but with fewer seats.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 19):
Also, we don't yet know for sure that the 762s will be sold. We just know that they are not getting upgraded to flat beds in J like the rest of the widebody fleet.

They've sold two this year, so they are open to offers.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24326 posts, RR: 47
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10485 times:

Look for the 2-class 763s to primarily serve PMCO routes ex EWR. From a staffing point of view will be interesting as UA will have to commit to possibly opening a satellite base or something to staff such flying.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 7):
I also wonder if they'll ever fully integrate the 777 fleets such that the PMCO 777s with GE engines will be flown all over the network, or if they'll try to keep them in one or two cities.

Not fully until crews are cross trained. Right not moving a PMCO plane would mean a PMCO crew would have to go along with it. Once crews a single group and have the differences training, then it will be much easier to move aircraft around the network.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 8):
I can't help but believe they will spread them out at least a little. Those max weight 777-200ERs are needed to Asia, including Kuwait and Dubai.

Might makesense to use the slight MTOW bump the CO birds offer, but 3-class premium cabin 777 are still very much required on several markets so the 2-class CO birds are less then ideal from then end.

Quoting ein105 (Reply 10):
What kind of configuration will/are these two class 767s going to be fitted with?

Planned config is C30Y184 of which 49 are Y+



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10303 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):

Look for the 2-class 763s to primarily serve PMCO routes ex EWR.

If this is the case, then it will be primarily replacing the handful of 762 routes out of EWR and some 757 routes.


User currently offlineATLflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9900 times:

Will these 763s get updated overhead bins, etc?

User currently offlinematt777 From Cayman Islands, joined Oct 2001, 503 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8995 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
EWR-1 MUC- MXP 1- GRU 1-
IAH-EZE 1- GRU 1-

Actually the South-american flights need 2 aircraft to operate daily (night flights both ways)
So to replace the 762 with 763:
EWR-MUC 1
EWR-MXP 1
EWR-GRU 2
IAH-GRU 2
IAH-EZE 2
+1 spare = 9 763.aircraft.
Hence 14-9= there are 5 aircraft available to replace or to expand to other routes.
I personally believe EWR-IST is on the way for 2012.

Anyway I made what it might look like the 767-300ER 30C/49Y+/135Y
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/mati777/767ual2class2.jpg


25 aznmadsci : I think that spare will do IAH-LIM since it is currently on a domestic 763 that will be part of the upgraded 763s. Otherwise it could go back to a PM
26 Drerx7 : Not gonna happen - the cargo they carry is why they upgraded to a 763 anyway.
27 CO 757-300 : i was expecting TXL to be one of the first routes to be upgraded to a 2 class 763, however looking at the CO timetable, the 757 is history as of novem
28 CALPSAFltSkeds : The 762 has been placed on TXL in winter due to headwinds for a couple of years. The upgrade to 764 looks nice, but the 764 and 2 class 763ER will be
29 RyanairGuru : To replace 2 757s with one 763 would be a large cut in capacity and, frankly, I can't see it happening. However, don't forget that MAN (and I presume
30 gigneil : I concur with that for now. Its definitely POSSIBLE that a UA 3 class plane could do it, but probably at even greater restriction. I agree with that
31 STT757 : The 787 would be the better aircraft for LAX-MEL and LAX-SYD. Hopefully the 762's will stick around for at least two more peak Trans-Atlantic seasons
32 gigneil : Do you think? Is the capacity there? UA doesn't fly to Australia empty, almost ever. And LAX has 10x weekly from time to time. I think ultimately tha
33 LAXintl : Thats why you have 757s. A higher density 762 is still going to be a dog compared to a 757 with almost the same capacity. Yes planes might be full, b
34 kgaiflyer : Given the large Scandinavian population in the upper midwest, I would think ORD-CPH, ORD-ARN -- or even ORD-HEL -- would sell out. Perhaps even with
35 TOMMY767 : I think it's fantastic UA is going forward with this project. However, I disagree with the uers that say that these reconfigured 763s are bound for EW
36 SonomaFlyer : Its not a weak performer even though its at the edge of the 777's range. Asia is premium heavy and if the PMUA 777's can make the route, their three
37 gigneil : You might be right, and I have suggested that as a probability in the past for sure. I could easily see that happening. NS
38 flyhossd : It's not that simple. CO ALPA has already filed a Scope violation regarding the sale of these aircraft and the arbitration hearing has already begun.
39 UAL777UK : I would agree with the 777, but I am of the view that HKG warrant F as well. So if the PMUA birds cannot do it, do you think they might reconfigure a
40 TOMMY767 : No question that they are going to be Atlantic based aircraft. I can't see them going Pacific from SFO or LAX, other than maybe a run or two to HNL.
41 gigneil : Perhaps as a result of mix and matching that could happen. From IAD, they do a pretty thorough job to FRA and MUC. I'd kill for TXL from IAD. That'd b
42 cslusarc : Do you think there is any possibility of LH moving capacity from JFK to EWR to strengthen the EWR hub?
43 gigneil : I have a lot less insight to the dynamics of what LH might do - I have always thought that makes sense, but I also don't know a ton about LH's O/D bus
44 LAXintl : SAS operates both ARN and CPH from ORD already. You can certainly have such opinions, however the tea-leaf readers such as myself have seen enough bi
45 TOMMY767 : That would have to be if fuel climbs to unseen sky high level. CO at the moment have no aircraft to replace them with, so for right now they are stuc
46 STT757 : They sold two 767-200s, but are acquiring 50 787s and 25 A350s. What's the problem? No he's right, CO had World Airways operating some routes from EW
47 dutchflyboi : Part of the problem is that according to the contract the A/C is suppose to remain the same, including what was on order. No that is not correct. I w
48 LAXintl : No not for me. I've noted two separate United sources for such a possible potential. World had a EWR-TLV and EWR-JNB run. (JNB might have had a tech-
49 washingtonian : I wonder if they'll decide that it's easier to just offer First on all Asia flights..If not, then I could see IAD-NRT going to PMCO 777s. Of course,
50 flyhossd : "What's the problem?" It's a violation of the contract, allegedly. IIRC, in the event of a merger, the wide-body aircraft must be kept in the fleet (
51 RyanairGuru : Let's not loose sight of the fact that New York and Hong Kong are (arguably) 2 of the 3 most important financial centers in the world (London being t
52 Post contains images gigneil : I am going to go along with this: They can probably do two 787s, even. This isn't about what was fine before. It's about what will be better next....
53 washingtonian : Yup, but our A.net fantasy planners are busy assigning the 787 new routes and forgetting that most of them were ordered as a 1:1 replacement for the
54 STT757 : Perhaps the PMUA order, but not the 11 787-8s and 14 787-9s ordered by CO which are those they are to take delivery of first.
55 GullAirACK : There was a CO codeshare with World Airways on DUB/SNN during the summer of 1997. We then began service the following year in 98. While my memory is
56 Post contains links STT757 : Got to love Google; http://www.thefreelibrary.com/WORLD+...IZED+RESERVATION+SYSTEM-a018404718
57 CODC10 : EWR-HKG is a strong performer. It is not in danger of being cut in favor of connections over ORD or SFO. This is true, but make no mistake, EWR is th
58 LAXintl : Sure UA has said something -- CEO Jeff Smisek publicly said following: Speaking in Queenstown, Smisek described the trans-Pacific market as “tough
59 washingtonian : They are still in a tough position though. Stick with 2-class PMCO 777s or weaker-performing 3-class PMUA 777s? Yup. There will inevitably be much la
60 CODC10 : Not to my knowledge, but LAX-AKL operated with a 777 before it was dropped. I expect to see MEL decoupled from LAX-SYD and made into a nonstop, proba
61 LAXintl : They scheduled a 777 for SFO-SYD during the S09 schedule season however in February, 1-month prior to planned commencement they swapped it back to th
62 washingtonian : Is the MEL market larger from SFO than LAX? Or because United has a larger international operation at SFO?
63 TOMMY767 : Doesn't LH fly this route year round? Do they need more capacity than what LH offers? Disagree. At this point, it's IAH. EWR is a great hub but it ha
64 gigneil : If you think EWR has all those issues despite being New York, what makes IAH so valuable other than being in Houston? Its a convenient connecting poin
65 BC77008 : But Houston has a much larger international footprint than Denver which commands a plethora of international flights. International service to 2nd an
66 TOMMY767 : Latin America, Mexico, South America. EWR also has the current issue of too many wasted frequencies on RJ's or props --- not efficient.
67 SonomaFlyer : I think the combined UA will comb through the EWR schedule and tweak it to maximize efficiencies. As for EWR being "too expensive," it has some of the
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