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Who Took The 717's Boeing Was Offering?  
User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21552 times:

Just looked on Boeing's website and see that there are only two 717's available for sale or lease. Any ideas who took the others. I know HAL took three, but who took the other 20

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21545 times:
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My sources show that 25 were available with 3 of these going to HAL----one each in Oct, Nov and December of this year which should leave 22 available.....

User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21508 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 1):
which should leave 22 available.....

Not as of today


User currently onlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21485 times:
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Quoting dtw9 (Reply 2):
Not as of today

I guess then there will be an announcement from Boeing soon.......


User currently offline1337DELTA764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6447 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21430 times:

Could it be DL? DL has been acquiring used MD-90s on the cheap, and the 717 doesn't really have much of a resale value either. If DL adds the 717, then they can also pick up the Saudia MD-90s due to a common cockpit.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineiceberg210 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 21367 times:

Quoting 1337DELTA764 (Reply 5):
Could it be DL? DL has been acquiring used MD-90s on the cheap, and the 717 doesn't really have much of a resale value either. If DL adds the 717, then they can also pick up the Saudia MD-90s due to a common cockpit.

At first I thought, DL? Come on, but then again when you think about it. If the news of the big 737-900ER order hits about the same time coincidence? Plus DL said that they're small aircraft needs were now 'less pressing' so the order for those could be delayed. Makes one wonder if Boeing didn't use the 717's as a neat little bonus for Delta to sure up the 737NG order... One never knows, and if I were Boeing I certainly wouldn't be above using those 717's as a nice little interim solution that could help sway a sale. If DL did pick these up (I have no idea, just pure speculation) it'd be a very nice little touch by Boeing.



Erik Berg (Foster's is over but never forgotten)
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 21212 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 3):
I guess then there will be an announcement from Boeing soon.......


22 aircraft? I would expect an announcement, sounds more like a clerical error.

Quoting iceberg210 (Reply 6):
One never knows, and if I were Boeing I certainly wouldn't be above using those 717's as a nice little interim solution that could help sway a sale


Maybe to sweeten the pie on a deal maybe a couple but 22, I am thinking that is a bit of a stretch.

I am not sure where they fit in DL's scope clause someone would have to answer that for me.



Okie


User currently onlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 21159 times:
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Quoting okie (Reply 7):

22 aircraft? I would expect an announcement, sounds more like a clerical error.

My thought as well......


User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2445 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 21044 times:

It would be awesome if DL picked up the rest of these 717s. I'm guessing they could be used on some of the routes that the DC-9-30s used to fly.


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineiceberg210 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 20867 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 7):
Maybe to sweeten the pie on a deal maybe a couple but 22, I am thinking that is a bit of a stretch.

I am not sure where they fit in DL's scope clause someone would have to answer that for me.



I would actually think that Boeing would want to throw as many of these planes at a customer as possible. The thing about the 717 is that if it's not in your fleet to just have a few of them I would think would be prohibitively expensive if you're a large airline like Delta, so my thinking is that 20 would be a good round number that they could use and be enough aircraft that you wouldn't be in poor shape in terms of fleet size. Again I wouldn't bet any money on DL picking these up, it's nothing more than a thought, at least for me I have no information or whatever to back it up. But it'd be a neat and crafty move by Boeing if they did it, and I'd be real proud of them for pulling something like this. Remember those 717's aren't doing anyone any favors by sitting, so if you're Boeing you're better off them flying and you selling parts for them then they're sitting (lets face it the value of 717's isn't all that great so the depreciation is likely not all that significant). Sort of that whitetail logic that MD used with American, etc...

Scope clause could/would be an issue, I'm not well enough versed in that.



Erik Berg (Foster's is over but never forgotten)
User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 20818 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 7):
22 aircraft? I would expect an announcement, sounds more like a clerical error.

It's not 22, It's 20 that have been picked up by someone. Not a clerical error either. The 717's were listed as a single group of 25 available. Now it shows two individual aircraft for sale or lease,C/N's 55166 and 55168


User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4253 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 20678 times:

Might be a few more for Finnish airline Blue1 (KF)? They do have a couple of 717's around now, and soon their RJ-85 fleet will be retired. So might a few 717's replace their RJ-85s?


"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2241 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 20609 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 7):
I am not sure where they fit in DL's scope clause someone would have to answer that for me.


No issue if they are flown by Delta pilots.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1316 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 20544 times:

Maybe VIM Airlines? Earlier this year there were messages that they would like to take over 15 717's from Boeing.


'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3066 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 20520 times:

I thought it would make perfect sense for WN to take all or at least some of these planes. Via the acquisition of FL they've already inherited the largest single fleet of 717s on the planet, so having a few more of the type in the fleet certainly wouldn't hurt. Also, adding a few more 717s would allow WN to modify the new arrivals directly to WN specs and the new planes could then be swapped with existing FL 717s while the FL planes are converted to WN specs, thereby avoiding disruption of service.

[Edited 2011-08-22 17:52:58 by srbmod]


Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently onlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7456 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 20451 times:

One went to MIA today. One of MX's or Midwests?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SXA861



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 20195 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 15):
I thought it would make perfect sense for WN to take all or at least some of these planes. Via the acquisition of FL they've already inherited the largest single fleet of 717s on the planet, so having a few more of the type in the fleet certainly wouldn't hurt


That kind of was my first thought but 20 planes is a small fleet. Short of DL replacing the 9's on a temporary basis then I would suspect the message boards to be alive for whoever got 20 717's at least looking for DEFO's and maybe DEC's.

Okie


User currently offlineelbandgeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 20168 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 15):
I thought it would make perfect sense for WN to take all or at least some of these planes. Via the acquisition of FL they've already inherited the largest single fleet of 717s on the planet, so having a few more of the type in the fleet certainly wouldn't hurt. Also, adding a few more 717s would allow WN to modify the new arrivals directly to WN specs and the new planes could then be swapped with existing FL 717s while the FL planes are converted to WN specs, thereby avoiding disruption of service.

That, and they can dump the 735s which are already the oddballs of the fleet and will be even moreso after integration.

[Edited 2011-08-22 17:53:21 by srbmod]

User currently offlinevhqpa From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 1456 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 20123 times:

Qantas were talking about leasing an extra two 717 frames

Quoting Qantas:
Key points of the fleet plan update, which covers the period through to the end of FY13:
* the lease of five additional B737-800s, and the extension of leases on two B737-800s, for Qantas
* the lease of 10 additional A320s, and the extension of leases on 11 A320s, for Jetstar
* the lease of one A330-200 for Jetstar
* the purchase of 10 Fokker 100s for Network Aviation
* the lease of two additional B717s for QantasLink
Source

Perhaps this accounts at least two of the frames in question



"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21476 posts, RR: 60
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 20108 times:

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 19):
Perhaps this accounts at least two of the frames in question

Might account for the whole lot then:

3 for HA
2 for QF group
20 for Unidentified Customer



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19839 times:

Quoting 1337DELTA764 (Reply 4):
Could it be DL?

Here's a few things to ponder

In the news about Delta's purchase of 737-900er's there is mention that Delta has pushed the selection of a smaller narrowbody aircraft for fleet renewal out significantly

Southwest recently made this statement: Chief executive officer Gary Kelly said yesterday that "we don't see a reason to keep the 717s longer than we have to, or find a unique replacement for the 717 that is anything other than the 737".

As of today 20 Boeing owned 717's are longer available for lease

The question is, could Delta have worked out a deal to take the Airtran 717's also? Remember Airtran only owns 8 of its 717's. So 80 plus 20 Boeing owned 717's =100 plus 100 737's =200

[Edited 2011-08-22 18:53:14]

User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19722 times:

The planes are not going to Delta or Southwest/Airtran. An announcement will be made at a later date.

User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3066 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19667 times:

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 20):
In the news about Delta's purchase of 737-900er's there is mention that Delta has pushed the selection of a smaller narrowbody aircraft for fleet renewal out significantly

Southwest recently made this statement: Chief executive officer Gary Kelly said yesterday that "we don't see a reason to keep the 717s longer than we have to, or find a unique replacement for the 717 that is anything other than the 737".

As of today 20 Boeing owned 717's are longer available for lease

The question is, could Delta have worked out a deal to take the Airtran 717's also? Remember Airtran only owns 8 of its 717's. So 80 plus 20 Boeing owned 717's =100 plus 100 737's =200

That theory does make good sense. WN could turn the 717s over to DL as the leases run out, replacing each one with a 737. Or, if enough available 73Gs could be found to replace the 717s, then WN could possibly transfer the existing leases to DL even sooner.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21476 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 19541 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 22):
That theory does make good sense. WN could turn the 717s over to DL as the leases run out, replacing each one with a 737. Or, if enough available 73Gs could be found to replace the 717s, then WN could possibly transfer the existing leases to DL even sooner.

This would allow them to defer a decision on the "next gen" aircraft until 2020 delivery or later, and because DL has a large pilot base for the DC9, it makes logistical sense. Would be an interesting idea.

WN invades ATL while giving the FL 717s to the main airline at ATL...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18881 times:

Quoting United_fan (Reply 15):
One went to MIA today. One of MX's or Midwests?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SXA861

Well technically they were all Midwest aircraft at one point. I did drive by VCV yesterday (Sunday) on my way home from work and saw that N922ME was already completely painted in HA colors, nice looking airplane.

FX1816


25 Post contains images SZDC10 : Isn't WN keeping the 717 fleet in order to retain many of the smaller markets they are getting in the FL acquisition? Are are 737's able to fly into t
26 bonusonus : Does the 717 have cockpit commonality with the DC-9? I thought it was a totally different cockpit...
27 RWA380 : I would think if WN planned to keep the 717 for smaller stations BOI wouldn't have suffered so hard with the latest cutbacks that were recently announ
28 fpetrutiu : Not with the DC-9. With the MD-90's from Saudi Arabia it does, acctually they have the same cockpit.
29 enilria : I've been saying that WN was going to dump the 717s ASAP and I have not seen a single supportive post in other threads and now I stumble on this quot
30 PHLBOS : If that's indeed the case; does anybody else see the irony here? 717s originally flown by FL going to DL while once upon a time, an upstart carrier (
31 TSS : From what I've read on here, the Saudia MD-90s were specially built to share a common cockpit rating with the MD-11. They are different from both 717
32 flyingAY : KF has been axing a lot of their routes this year: LHR, CDG, AMS and MUC are going. Their plan is to get rid of the rest of the Avros, and possibly t
33 ikramerica : Cross type rating between the two can't be too complicated, at least compared to other fleets.
34 kgaiflyer : Forgive me -- I'm old and confused. Are the YX and the MX 717s (returned to Boeing after their demise) the same planes ? Or are we talking about diffe
35 mdword1959 : Same planes.
36 pylon101 : Yes, it may be VIM Airlines (Moscow, Russia). I have no idea where the negotiations are. But they are hiring pilots for Boeing-717.
37 combatshadow : dtw9 beat me to it. I've been pondering the same scenario in my head, you just beat me to the math! TSS, wasn't the 717 cockpit designed to be similar
38 TSS : After my last post, I did some poking around on the internet looking for photos of standard MD-90, Saudia MD-90, and 717 cockpits to compare. If the
39 lightsaber : Thank you. That makes far more sense to me than DL, FL/WN, or any other large airline. I suspect it will take a bit of time to know, but that suggest
40 ikramerica : Sure it makes more sense. But is it as fun a rumor? Hardly...
41 csturdiv : Would that be for expansion or a change in equipment, getting rid of their fleet of B757 for the smaller B717? And how does the rumor of them getting
42 odwyerpw : Best statement of the thread!! Thanks for the moment of levity.
43 FlyASAGuy2005 : To clear things up, the MD-90 was to originally have the MD-11 "style" glass cockpit. DL, which was to be the largest oeprator, wanted commonality wi
44 pylon101 : VIM is expanding to the East of Russia. There they will send most of 752 birds. For their traditional charter routes B-717 taken at reasonable price a
45 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : If the MD-88 and MD-90 flight-deck upgrades are carried out, DL could conceivably have pilots cross-trained across four DC-9 rating sub-types. (MD-88/
46 HA_DC9 : N922ME is the first of the three. Looks like it will be registered as N491HA. According to the HNL Rarebirds blog, it is in MIA for prep work probabl
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