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Gojets To Act As Feeder Airline For DL  
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1348 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 17028 times:

Gojets will operate 12 CR7's for DL starting in early 2012. 8 of these are coming from EV and the other 4 I would guess are coming from OH. The race to be the cheapest continues, didn't DL learn when they had Mesa flying for them???



[Edited 2011-08-23 14:18:51]


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
160 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23021 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16994 times:

Not sure about the subject line, unless you are referring the labor situation. I flew G7 a lot when I lived in Saint Louis (not necessarily by choice) and never had anything but lovely experiences.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16952 times:

Not terribly familiar with them... why are they a "bottom feeder?"

User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16954 times:

Low pay rates and an alter ego airline. Ask most pilots at TSA how they feel about them.


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16776 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 3):

Low pay rates and an alter ego airline. Ask most pilots at TSA how they feel about them.

Low pay rates is normal at regionals. I'm sure you, as a pilot, would rather that were not the case, but it is what it is.

Mesa provides unreliable service on dirty aircraft. We'll see about GoJet. Otherwise, they're no more of a bottom feeder than any other regional.


User currently offlineflypdx From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16728 times:

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 4):
Mesa provides unreliable service on dirty aircraft. We'll see about GoJet. Otherwise, they're no more of a bottom feeder than any other regional.

  

I've had nothing but comfortable service on GoJet as UA Express. Nice clean aircraft as well. Maybe this will be a nice addition to DL Connection.


User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1278 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16602 times:

I've flown a lot of flights on Mesa and found their crews to be excellent regardless of how they may feel about the company. I hear a lot of knocks on EV as well but have yet to experience any issues myself. I think the term bottom feeder means different things to different folks. The simple fact that a company is a low bidder and those low costs are achieved by paying a low salary does not qualify them as a "bottom feeder" to either the consumer or the mainline carrier. From an employee perspective perhaps but (dont shoot the messeger) that doesnt really mean a whole lot.

Based upon my own personal experiences the so called worst of the regionals have all provided better service than any of the majors. Im basing this opinion on the past three months with Mesa, EV, Pinnacle, Chatauqua, Expressjet vs DL, AA, UA, FL. This industry is all about cost. The contracts will continue going to the lowest bidders as long as those lowest bidders continue to provide the necessary safety, completion and service standards desired by the mainline partner.


User currently offlinesplitterz From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16271 times:

I have had nothing short of outstanding service on any GoJet flight. In fact I will be taking them to and from Chicago tomorrow. Plus there aircraft are well kept and somewhat new. The crews I have talked with seemed relatively happy and were pretty positive of the company. They will be a good addition to the DL Connection system. Any word what routes they may fly?

User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16218 times:

It would appear some of the routes out of CVG. Not sure where else just sad to see flying lost from EV, but we were not willing to fly it at a loss.


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineFURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 802 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16179 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 8):
Not sure where else just sad to see flying lost from EV, but we were not willing to fly it at a loss.

I'm curious as to whether GoJets was just a lower bidder than EV, or whether EV was not chosen due to some of their reliability and performance issues...


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1947 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16086 times:

Well, with GoJet's reputation alone I'm not on board with it. It's a race to the bottom for DCI carriers.

And secondly, the last thing the Delta network needs is to add another regional carrier to further thin things out when day-to-day operation problems arise. DCI has too many carriers as it is.


User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15955 times:

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 9):
I'm curious as to whether GoJets was just a lower bidder than EV, or whether EV was not chosen due to some of their reliability and performance issues...

It was due to bidding, not performance.



"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15827 times:

I flew GoJet once and deal with them often at work and I've had good experiences as well. Crews are friendly and the aircraft are pretty new. Hopefully this turns out to be a good thing for DL.

User currently offlineFURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 802 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15826 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 10):
And secondly, the last thing the Delta network needs is to add another regional carrier to further thin things out when day-to-day operation problems arise. DCI has too many carriers as it is.

Especially when nothing is standardized. One has to learn how to pull a release, complete paperwork, etc. 8 or 9 (or however many DCI carriers there are) different ways; that's a REAL pain.


User currently offlineDLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1911 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15702 times:

Based on what I've heard from UA employees about GoJet I feel for those that will have to deal with them at DL. Luckily I'll never have to deal with them as I'll be long gone by the time they startup.

User currently offlinemicstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 780 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15676 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 11):
It was due to bidding, not performance.

From a passenger standpoint, can they really be any worse than ASA?



S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
User currently offlinecubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23021 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 15284 times:

Quoting micstatic (Reply 15):
From a passenger standpoint, can they really be any worse than ASA?

From a passenger standpoint, they are better than ASA in about every way imaginable.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 14658 times:

Quoting Flaps (Reply 6):
I've flown a lot of flights on Mesa and found their crews to be excellent regardless of how they may feel about the company.

A testament to their professionalism in the face of total lack of support from their employer. They should be commended.

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 8):
but we were not willing to fly it at a loss.

Nor should you be, it's your job at stake if your company doesn't make money!

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 10):
Well, with GoJet's reputation alone I'm not on board with it. It's a race to the bottom for DCI carriers.

Yeah, you're right. Post-merger DL has done everything wrong haven't they?  


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 14657 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Thread starter):
8 of these are coming from EV and the other 4 I would guess are coming from OH. The race to be the cheapest continues, didn't DL learn when they had Mesa flying for them???

Which frames will they be? Are the QX birds leased by DL or OO? I'd also assume the batch of 8 would be the CA registered 700s that are with EV that transfered from Comair.

Quoting micstatic (Reply 15):
From a passenger standpoint, can they really be any worse than ASA?
Quoting cubsrule (Reply 16):
From a passenger standpoint, they are better than ASA in about every way imaginable.

In ASA's defense, a lot of their woes are Delta's own fault, period.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineUA191 From Canada, joined Apr 2010, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 14252 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Thread starter):
Gojets will operate 12 CR7's for DL starting in early 2012. 8 of these are coming from EV and the other 4 I would guess are coming from OH. The race to be the cheapest continues, didn't DL learn when they had Mesa flying for them???

GoJet, at least on UA Express, has absolutely great service.



UA Global Services, DL Platinum Medallion, AC Super Elite - I love flying!!!
User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 14069 times:

Quoting UA191 (Reply 19):
GoJet, at least on UA Express, has absolutely great service.

I agree, GoJet is one of the best UAX carriers. I suspect this thread is an example of ALPA hate-mongering because GoJet pilots dare to be Teamsters.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13761 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 20):
I agree, GoJet is one of the best UAX carriers. I suspect this thread is an example of ALPA hate-mongering because GoJet pilots dare to be Teamsters.



No. This about someone loosing flying to another carrier. AV8JET is an ASA captain if some of you haven't figured it out by now. Who wants to loose flying to another carrier and only because they will be doing it cheaper?

Like he said, the majority of it will be out of CVG so I think this thorn is more into OH's side than EV's. IDK, i'll always have a soft spot for ASA. They were my first employer and where my screen name came from as well. Sucked when all those 900 flying went to Pinnacle in Atlanta too. Sorry, I guess i'm biased here.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10428 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13669 times:

Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 8):
Not sure where else just sad to see flying lost from EV, but we were not willing to fly it at a loss.

Then why bad mouth Go Jets? Just because they could do it for less than you could? Seems that most of the posters on this thread have nothing but good to say about them. Could it be that your opinion is colored because you lost that particular contract?

Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 14):

Based on what I've heard from UA employees about GoJet I feel for those that will have to deal with them at DL.

Based on what my daughter says about UA employees (she's an F/A for OO), they don't have much room to complain about how bad other airline's employees are.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10428 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13616 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 21):
only because they will be doing it cheaper?

Unless they really screwed up, what more compelling reason would there be? That IS the name of the game, isn't it?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13432 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 23):
Unless they really screwed up, what more compelling reason would there be? That IS the name of the game, isn't it?

I guess the point was that cheaper isn't always better. Took them years to get Mesa from under the DCI banner and look how much it cost them. Sure they "won" the war, but the battle cost them a pretty penny. Not saying this is how GoJet will go down but this whole thing about pitting carriers against each other is getting silly. And they wonder why mainline pilots have little to no respect for many of them.

Back to what I was originally saying. EV does not dictate turn times, they have little to no control over the flight schedule (only the a/c and cancellations to a certain extent) and the LARGEST portion of their flying, which is done through Atlanta, is essentially ran by Delta. The tower, ramp, gates. Catering is contracted along with fuel and lavatory services. All coordinated by DL. All they really do is schedule, fix, and fly the things.



What gets measured gets done.
25 mayor : I've found that many mainline pilots have very little respect for anyone that doesn't fly mainline. For quite a few years, DL employees treated Skywe
26 OH-LGA : The other 4 are coming from OO. I heard they lost the contract on 4 Delta Connection CR7s effective next year so this sounds like where they are goin
27 RamblinMan : So he would, then, be willing to take a pay cut in order that his company could fly those routes profitably, right? Get real. This is competition, an
28 FlyASAGuy2005 : Of course not. Still doesn't change the fact that it sucks. What yo are suggesting; or rather what you *think* I was getting at is the exact opposite
29 RamblinMan : I think I get it... he's badmouthing a competitor because his employer was outbid. If they're paying more, it's good to work for ASA. It's good for a
30 FlyASAGuy2005 : For the record, I really don't have anything against GoJet. Have never flown on any of their flights operated by United. As to the poster that hinted
31 Post contains images apodino : Remember that RAH is also represented by the teamsters, and I am not aware of any issues that their Teamsters are having with ALPA, who BTW represent
32 suprazachair : QX is teamsters too. This isn't a union thing at all. This is about how/why GoJet was created and how TSA pilots got screwed in the process. It was a
33 Post contains images UnitedTristar : I hear from my friend who use to be an FA for TZ that GoJet recruited alot of their inflight staff from TZ as they were shutting down(all or most) th
34 bhmdiversion : What is the source for GoJet joining DCI? There is nothing about this/heard of it in Deltaland.
35 floridaflyboy : That is very true. XJ picked up a lot of the TZ flight attendants as well. They were taking delivery of 900s at a rapid clip at that time and growing
36 JBirdAV8r : In a nutshell, here's what happened: 1) TSA wanted to add 70-seat jets with no raise in pay 2) ALPA pushed back, demanding higher rates for the large
37 93Sierra : Doesn't us have more regionals carriers than DL?
38 cubsrule : That's fine, and the pilots are certainly entitled to their opinions, but as a passenger, why should I care? Is G7 any less safe? Any less comfortabl
39 JBirdAV8r : You're probably no likelier to crash at GoJet, and I'm sure their FA's are friendly. The equipment is very new. "Less reliable" is a question mark. B
40 nwaesc : ^YES.^ Don't forget nuanced differences for deicing, security, etc. I had high hopes that the new DCI "pipeline" would eliminate a lot of that, but i
41 SNCntry32 : DL has the old General Motors stratategy when it comes to DCI Carriers, A DCI carrier for every family, purse, day, mood... Delta is a horrible airli
42 cubsrule : Maybe - but what? Is it about the politics or something more relevant?
43 JBirdAV8r : Sorry, I thought it was obvious. If better-qualified applicants are going to all the other regional carriers (of which most are hiring), that doesn't
44 cubsrule : I guess I'm confused. The industry seems to operate under the assumption that pilots with the qualifications for the job (on paper) are all equally q
45 Mir : I don't think anyone's ever argued that - the argument against merit pay is that it's nigh impossible to develop good metrics for such a system. Most
46 mm320cap : ASA and Skywest pilots who are upset about losing "their" flying to GoJets need to remember that it was only "their" flying because they took it from
47 cubsrule : Why does "pride in the work" equal "union pride?" It seems to me that the only "pride" issue at G7 is the quasi-scab issue with its creation.
48 Mir : You're right in this case that the issue with G7 isn't really union-based. However, it is based on the more overarching philosophy (which unionizatio
49 catiii : It's ambiguous, but I think it depends on the quality of training. Let's take two pilots, both with 1,500 hours, and both with ATPs. One got their 1,
50 cubsrule : I'll buy that. How does not subscribing to that philosophy make one a bad pilot?
51 FlyASAGuy2005 : I thought it was over too. I guess not. JG tried to reverse this trend towards the end of his tenure but now there are new people at the reigns that
52 Post contains images skyrat : Hey as long as the ticket prices are really low, who care's what the pilots make!
53 ABQopsHP : It means a whole lot to employees! My company just got bought out by OO and was merged into EV. I have watched my pay drop 12%, I am loosing my healt
54 ScottB : This will never happen again due to the Comair pilots' strike. Delta used to have the DCI carriers all segregated by hub: OH had CVG, MCO, and BOS/LG
55 FlyASAGuy2005 : I hear everything you said but how do we explain it bein union based when many of the above mentioned issues involve pilots from the *same* union?
56 apodino : I know that and I think its a lame excuse. For one thing, the Railway Labor Act makes a strike nearly difficult to pull off, so a pilots strike at a
57 Flaps : So in other words the Trans States pilots screwed themselves. Yet is that not exactly the attitude you are displaying, only from the other side of th
58 freeze3192 : It took 36 replies to show accurate information about GJ and why their employes aren't respected by their peers. Just goes to show how badly out of t
59 bhmdiversion : I don't know how this turned into a war of Scabs and such, but this is what ASA is reporting on their employee site on aircraft leaving the fleet: fro
60 mayor : How many millions did that "one incident" cost them?
61 FlyASAGuy2005 : I think the whole Comair thing is overplayed. Not what happened. Most certainly not, but the ripple effect it caused, even into 2011. I think it all
62 Post contains images RamblinMan : And now it comes out. Wow. In the same thread where I commended Mesa crews for professionalism in the face of adversity. What you have described is s
63 FlyASAGuy2005 : Because they wouldn't agree to substandard pay for larger equipment? Yeah, I guess you can say that... One thing people will not get is how decisions
64 apodino : You know, thats an angle that hasn't been mentioned in this thread much, and is a very important component. Compass got bought out by Trans States af
65 RamblinMan : Oh for crying out loud... it's CR7s not 744s. This mentality of must-have-more-money-for-10-more-seats is beyond silly. Like I was saying, look where
66 mayor : Sure.....my son-in-law ran into this all the time when he was still flying for OO. The captain might refuse to let him ride jumpseat, even though the
67 SNCntry32 : I guess being PMNWAirlink Ive noticed a big difference, like travel benifits being severley restricted. Hell I dont ever get priority on our own airc
68 Post contains images RamblinMan : I'm really thankful that my interest in aviation isn't so much a fascination that I feel compelled to pursue it as a career. Sounds perfectly miserab
69 freeze3192 : *Sigh* It's not for 10 more seats, its for 16 more seats. The TSA had crappy pay for the ERJ to begin with and then they wanted to pay the crews the
70 BMI727 : Fine. If they think it's a bad deal and don't want to fly those planes at those rates, it is their right to refuse. But it is a bit silly to then get
71 JBirdAV8r : Hey, don't shoot the messenger. I just described the reality of the situation. I didn't say I give GoJet crews dirty looks and refuse to share my cra
72 JBirdAV8r : It's funny. I'm by no means a union shill and am a fiscal conservative and I find myself in an awkward position here. I know the situation you're talk
73 fjnovak1 : FWIW, I've had a pair of GoJet flights on UAX, both DTW-ORD trips, and found them to be a reliable carrier with good service. Nice crews, and very pro
74 cubsrule : Sure, and maybe they are less desirable. Why not take the most desirable job? That's certainly what those who pick OO over G7 and a 135 operation, fo
75 enilria : Fast forward a couple of years and replace DL with AA and EV/OH with Eagle.
76 RamblinMan : Thank you for splitting that hair. For the lucky ones who have made it to the top tier, don't pretend this isn't true. I sincerely hope you make it t
77 dalalways : I had great experiences flying on them from JAX-IAD when I was a commuter FA for United. The F/A's and flight crew were always very nice.
78 Flaps : It could also be said that the ignorance OF the union attitude is overwhelming.......Aint it great to have a mind of your own?
79 Post contains images Acey559 : Ouch. I'll tell you what I'm beginning to loathe is the never ending rhetoric that some old NW employees STILL bring to these discussions. I understa
80 RamblinMan : Amen. But get ready for it with former-CO and former-FL employees, as well as the loyal pax. Oh, really? I'm the ignorant one because I don't buy int
81 FlyASAGuy2005 : It's an informed (whatever that means) decision they made when they accepted the job at GoJet. And as to "it's only a CR7", I guess you can say that
82 RamblinMan : It's "informed" because I doubt the pay scales are somehow hidden before you are hired. You know the rate, and if you decide it's worth your time, yo
83 FlyASAGuy2005 : Of course it's an informed decision. You're not reading through the lines very well. I said whatever that means because it's a stupid one to make to
84 RamblinMan : That's just reality. I don't think it's appropriate for you or me or anyone else to decide that it's "stupid" for someone to accept a job just becaus
85 Post contains images norcal : Learn the history of GoJet, then you'll understand why it is hated so much in the industry. It's an alter-ego carrier that was used to circumvent a l
86 Post contains images JBirdAV8r : I'm not sure there's any value of getting nasty. Unions have their place and function. While I think a number of airlines can function quite well wit
87 MSPNWA : It's not a union line. It's called proper business practice to compensate employees more. The CR7 is not only a larger aircraft with more seats. In t
88 NWADC9 : Who?
89 mayor : As do OO employees. The same could be said for OO employees in their relationship with the major carriers they fly for except that they do have recip
90 Flaps : Well put. Welcome to my respected users list.
91 catiii : Simple: probably because they were half the size, with none of the synergies that come from a merged carrier. Because you aren't Delta employees. You
92 Flaps : I wasnt trying to be nasty at all and that comment certainly wasnt directed toward you personally or specifically. You articulate your position very
93 Post contains images JBirdAV8r : No problem, Flaps. I respect your opinion as well!
94 lightsaber : Wow, lots of animosity for a choice motivated by today's fares and fuel prices (which DL has to cover). I suspect with consolodation there will be sig
95 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : Again, I hear everything everone's saying but i've got one word. Whipsaw. From the outside looking it, it's pretty easy to judge and say all of these
96 cubsrule : Sort of. The second carrier had to be born regardless because of AA's scope (and you can blame/thank APA for that). So the question wasn't really the
97 dalalways : Delta giving flt benefits to connection carries is quite nice. Our subsidiary carriers fall in the mix of mainline based on seniority, contract carri
98 BMI727 : I'd feel pretty safe saying that there is no correlation between crew pay and service. There are great regionals and crappy ones. And some employees
99 RamblinMan : Yeah except in this case the "good-for-nothing dropout son" is actually a professional pilot who, all other things being equal, is just as qualified
100 silentbob : The "race to the bottom" is not healthy. The continued erosion of pay is not a good thing in any industry and a significant cause of the economic pro
101 freeze3192 : This is a prime example of how you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. The difference between a safe crew and a dangerous crew could
102 RamblinMan : Oh would I? I can assure you I would not allow petty bickering to lead to an "unsafe" environment in any situation, regardless of my personal feeling
103 bhmdiversion : Posted on DeltaNet: GoJet airlines to fly 12 CRJ-700s for Delta Connection ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
104 catiii : Exactly. If any mainline pilot is that unprofessional to create an unhealthy cockpit environment, then they should be taken off the line.
105 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : Very well said, silentbob. Well, that's if they even make it to a mainline cockpit.
106 enilria : Are we sure this is a CPA? To refer to it as "code sharing" is highly unusual. That implies it is not a CPA. That would be huge news. I don't think D
107 PWMRamper : Granted, I work at an outstation and we don't see TSA too much anymore, but this attitude isn't felt by the majority of pilots, at least in my experi
108 B727FA : Am I the only one left who remembers the mid-late 60's when all the pilots were off in SE Asia and the airlines were hiring every 250 hr wizz-kid the
109 XFSUgimpLB41X : That was also the time period where you could buy life insurance before a flight. Apples and oranges. Someone mentioned the 1500 hour rule earlier...
110 cubsrule : Your statement confuses me. All of the passenger experiences on this thread suggest that G7 controls and executes the UA product as well as or better
111 catiii : And yet the Captain had approximately 3300 hours of flight time and the FO had 2300 hours, including 700 hours on the airplane type she was flying at
112 XFSUgimpLB41X : Poor foundations make for poor structures...
113 BMI727 : I'm not convinced that such things happen because, frankly, I think the vast majority of pilots are better than that. A professional pilot would real
114 catiii : Ok, but you said: And that isn't necessarily the case. The FO had just over 1500 hours when she was hired and never failed a checkride or had a certi
115 freakyrat : "I'm curious as to whether GoJets was just a lower bidder than EV, or whether EV was not chosen due to some of their reliability and performance issue
116 cbphoto : Buddy, I'm in the regional industry myself and I view Gojets with the same eyes that most other regional guys do, but one thing I have learned over t
117 freakyrat : First off, I understand why scope clauses are there, I also understand that the airlines are in the business to make money. There has to be someway fo
118 BMI727 : What are passengers supposed to care about? Why is everyone so scared of GoJet? If they are as crappy an airline as some people say they are they wil
119 AVLAirlineFreq : Can someone elaborate upon this? I've seen this said before elsewhere on a.net. Is it something unique to DL's relationship with ASA, or is it true o
120 DeltaMD90 : From what I've heard (not experienced) is that ramp workers will often give priority to DL planes before ASA, so they are often delayed more. Makes s
121 MSPNWA : I'm only a casual observer of the matter, but to me it's not difficult to see how EV can sometimes get the short end of the stick. The vast majority
122 cubsrule : As a passenger, here's what I care about: 1) A safe flight 2) A punctual flight 3) A comfortable flight Except to the extent that it affects one of t
123 RamblinMan : Here's where you, and several others who have posted here just don't get it. "Caring" does not necessarily mean looking at it from labor's point of v
124 JBirdAV8r : Well, that's fine. Just remember that all pilots who post are not union worker bee lemmings. I started my own successful little business, in addition
125 T5towbar : That's how it works......... Mainline will get priority first. Better to get 200 plus out than 50. It's a numbers game and M/L will win every time.
126 BMI727 : That's a pragmatic way for the airline to go about its business, but it is a bit disingenuous to then turn around and use the statistics that came ab
127 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : In addition to what's been said below, the biggest thing is that airport customer service for all DCI carriers (including ASA obviously) is handled b
128 BMI727 : I'm not saying that the way they do it is wrong, in fact just the opposite. But then it's a bit silly for the airline to turn around and hold the reg
129 FlyASAGuy2005 : Okay, I see what you're saying. If you look back at the whole Freedom case. This was basically their (F8's) defense. That DL was the one that drove m
130 usflyer msp : This is what I am not getting...the TSA pilots never went on strike so how are the G7 pilots scabs? If the G7 pilots had crossed a picket line then I
131 T5towbar : But also at a hub where M/L employees handle a regional flight, its not that we don't hustle and get it out on time, usually when there is weather, i
132 cbphoto : preciously, which is why I am saying this is not the appropriate audience or forum to be complaining about the pilot group at Go-jet! All I was getti
133 cubsrule : Wrong. They created another operating certificate because the AA scope required it. Again, you can thank APA - and no one else - for that. Had AA sco
134 BMI727 : Then why bother keeping planes clean? Of course it does have to do with how the company is run, and the perception of how the company is run. After a
135 cbphoto : There is lots that I can say in regards to Go-Jets, but seeing as though we have already gone WAY off topic, I think it would be appropriate to not di
136 FlyASAGuy2005 : I'm sure you do but quoting the wrong person. None-the-less, i've done my share out in the operation. First jon was on the ramp in Atlanta with ASA w
137 cubsrule : Backing up your opinion that G7 (GoJet, by the way, not Go-Jets) is unprofessional is surely no more off topic than you making the comment in the fir
138 cbphoto : That is correct, Gojet is what I meant to say, thank you! All I can say to that is often times what you see on the outside can and often is a lot dif
139 cubsrule : I guess my hangup is that you don't even know the correct legal name of the carrier and yet you expect us to take your unsupported assertions as gosp
140 cbphoto : Really? It was a typographical slip up, GoJet and Gojets are pretty similar. I am trying to focus on a bigger topic, and you are criticizing my spell
141 catiii : Thanks for the insight. As a customer that's a frustrating reality. If I'm buying a "seamless" ticket that requires flying a regional carrier that is
142 Post contains links cbphoto : If you are so desperate to see the evidence, go read it yourself! http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...9975-gojet-tsa-history-lesson.html thats all
143 apodino : While what you are saying is true, it is only half the story. Yes Trans States had to create another certificate to get around the AA scope clause. T
144 catiii : I'm not desperate to read "the evidence." The facts about how GoJet came into being are public record. I wasn't disputing that. What I am disputing,
145 cbphoto : Considering I am on a union committee, with an airline in contract negotiations, I know the definition of SCAB better then most do. I was never refer
146 cubsrule : I think my point was more that there are no other companies (nor could there be) with a single certificate and multiple seniority lists, and it reall
147 FlyPNS1 : You're (intentionally?) missing the point...there's no operational or scope reason for G7 to have a separate seniority list.
148 cubsrule : Correct, but without two certificates, it would not even have been possible. That's my point. There's no reason to have two seniority lists, but with
149 apodino : We can't assume that though. This is Trans States management we are talking about here, and it is well known how those guys do business. The other th
150 cubsrule : But, again, they had no choice on the new certificate. The choice was how many seniority lists they'd have.
151 apodino : Exactly. But my point is that even if there was no AA scope, and they did have a choice on the certificate, I am not convinced that they wouldn't hav
152 cbphoto : You can have a single, overall seniority list and break up each of the fleet types with a separate list! Look at Republic! They fly 70 seat jets, yet
153 cubsrule : Maintaining a certificate costs a fair amount of money. Absolutely. But the converse is not true. You cannot have a single certificate but multiple l
154 FlyPNS1 : But who cares? You are trying to make a point that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Tran States management made a conscious decision to whip
155 cubsrule : It's absolutely relevant. If AA pilots cared more about regional pilots, we wouldn't be having to discuss whether G7 pilots care about other pilots,
156 catiii : I hope it's the hotels committee and not the contracts committee because I don't think you do. First off it's scab, not SCAB as an acronym. Second, a
157 cbphoto : Sorry man, but if you can't read, I really can't help you. That is all I was getting at, nothing more, nothing less! You can think whatever you want
158 NathanH : You're playing real funny games with language to try to back out of a statement you made. Anyone reading that would assume that in your second senten
159 cbphoto : I admit (and admitted at the time) the way I tied that paragraph together, I might have made it seem that I was referring to them as scabs, but that
160 srbmod : At this point, the discussion has run its' course as the topic has gotten well away from GoJet becoming a Delta Connection carrier. This thread is now
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