AV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1292 posts, RR: 1 Posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 16317 times:
Gojets will operate 12 CR7's for DL starting in early 2012. 8 of these are coming from EV and the other 4 I would guess are coming from OH. The race to be the cheapest continues, didn't DL learn when they had Mesa flying for them???
Flaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1176 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15891 times:
I've flown a lot of flights on Mesa and found their crews to be excellent regardless of how they may feel about the company. I hear a lot of knocks on EV as well but have yet to experience any issues myself. I think the term bottom feeder means different things to different folks. The simple fact that a company is a low bidder and those low costs are achieved by paying a low salary does not qualify them as a "bottom feeder" to either the consumer or the mainline carrier. From an employee perspective perhaps but (dont shoot the messeger) that doesnt really mean a whole lot.
Based upon my own personal experiences the so called worst of the regionals have all provided better service than any of the majors. Im basing this opinion on the past three months with Mesa, EV, Pinnacle, Chatauqua, Expressjet vs DL, AA, UA, FL. This industry is all about cost. The contracts will continue going to the lowest bidders as long as those lowest bidders continue to provide the necessary safety, completion and service standards desired by the mainline partner.
splitterz From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15560 times:
I have had nothing short of outstanding service on any GoJet flight. In fact I will be taking them to and from Chicago tomorrow. Plus there aircraft are well kept and somewhat new. The crews I have talked with seemed relatively happy and were pretty positive of the company. They will be a good addition to the DL Connection system. Any word what routes they may fly?
FURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 784 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15115 times:
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 10): And secondly, the last thing the Delta network needs is to add another regional carrier to further thin things out when day-to-day operation problems arise. DCI has too many carriers as it is.
Especially when nothing is standardized. One has to learn how to pull a release, complete paperwork, etc. 8 or 9 (or however many DCI carriers there are) different ways; that's a REAL pain.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6858 posts, RR: 11 Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 13946 times:
Quoting AV8AJET (Thread starter): 8 of these are coming from EV and the other 4 I would guess are coming from OH. The race to be the cheapest continues, didn't DL learn when they had Mesa flying for them???
Which frames will they be? Are the QX birds leased by DL or OO? I'd also assume the batch of 8 would be the CA registered 700s that are with EV that transfered from Comair.
Quoting micstatic (Reply 15): From a passenger standpoint, can they really be any worse than ASA?
Quoting cubsrule (Reply 16): From a passenger standpoint, they are better than ASA in about every way imaginable.
In ASA's defense, a lot of their woes are Delta's own fault, period.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
UA191 From Canada, joined Apr 2010, 53 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 13541 times:
Quoting AV8AJET (Thread starter): Gojets will operate 12 CR7's for DL starting in early 2012. 8 of these are coming from EV and the other 4 I would guess are coming from OH. The race to be the cheapest continues, didn't DL learn when they had Mesa flying for them???
GoJet, at least on UA Express, has absolutely great service.
UA Global Services, DL Platinum Medallion, AC Super Elite - I love flying!!!
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6858 posts, RR: 11 Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 13050 times:
Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 20): I agree, GoJet is one of the best UAX carriers. I suspect this thread is an example of ALPA hate-mongering because GoJet pilots dare to be Teamsters.
No. This about someone loosing flying to another carrier. AV8JET is an ASA captain if some of you haven't figured it out by now. Who wants to loose flying to another carrier and only because they will be doing it cheaper?
Like he said, the majority of it will be out of CVG so I think this thorn is more into OH's side than EV's. IDK, i'll always have a soft spot for ASA. They were my first employer and where my screen name came from as well. Sucked when all those 900 flying went to Pinnacle in Atlanta too. Sorry, I guess i'm biased here.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9628 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12958 times:
Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 8): Not sure where else just sad to see flying lost from EV, but we were not willing to fly it at a loss.
Then why bad mouth Go Jets? Just because they could do it for less than you could? Seems that most of the posters on this thread have nothing but good to say about them. Could it be that your opinion is colored because you lost that particular contract?
Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 14):
Based on what I've heard from UA employees about GoJet I feel for those that will have to deal with them at DL.
Based on what my daughter says about UA employees (she's an F/A for OO), they don't have much room to complain about how bad other airline's employees are.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6858 posts, RR: 11 Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12721 times:
Quoting mayor (Reply 23): Unless they really screwed up, what more compelling reason would there be? That IS the name of the game, isn't it?
I guess the point was that cheaper isn't always better. Took them years to get Mesa from under the DCI banner and look how much it cost them. Sure they "won" the war, but the battle cost them a pretty penny. Not saying this is how GoJet will go down but this whole thing about pitting carriers against each other is getting silly. And they wonder why mainline pilots have little to no respect for many of them.
Back to what I was originally saying. EV does not dictate turn times, they have little to no control over the flight schedule (only the a/c and cancellations to a certain extent) and the LARGEST portion of their flying, which is done through Atlanta, is essentially ran by Delta. The tower, ramp, gates. Catering is contracted along with fuel and lavatory services. All coordinated by DL. All they really do is schedule, fix, and fly the things.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
25 mayor: I've found that many mainline pilots have very little respect for anyone that doesn't fly mainline. For quite a few years, DL employees treated Skywe
26 OH-LGA: The other 4 are coming from OO. I heard they lost the contract on 4 Delta Connection CR7s effective next year so this sounds like where they are goin
27 RamblinMan: So he would, then, be willing to take a pay cut in order that his company could fly those routes profitably, right? Get real. This is competition, an
28 FlyASAGuy2005: Of course not. Still doesn't change the fact that it sucks. What yo are suggesting; or rather what you *think* I was getting at is the exact opposite
29 RamblinMan: I think I get it... he's badmouthing a competitor because his employer was outbid. If they're paying more, it's good to work for ASA. It's good for a
30 FlyASAGuy2005: For the record, I really don't have anything against GoJet. Have never flown on any of their flights operated by United. As to the poster that hinted
31 apodino: Remember that RAH is also represented by the teamsters, and I am not aware of any issues that their Teamsters are having with ALPA, who BTW represent
32 suprazachair: QX is teamsters too. This isn't a union thing at all. This is about how/why GoJet was created and how TSA pilots got screwed in the process. It was a
33 UnitedTristar: I hear from my friend who use to be an FA for TZ that GoJet recruited alot of their inflight staff from TZ as they were shutting down(all or most) th
34 bhmdiversion: What is the source for GoJet joining DCI? There is nothing about this/heard of it in Deltaland.
35 floridaflyboy: That is very true. XJ picked up a lot of the TZ flight attendants as well. They were taking delivery of 900s at a rapid clip at that time and growing
36 JBirdAV8r: In a nutshell, here's what happened: 1) TSA wanted to add 70-seat jets with no raise in pay 2) ALPA pushed back, demanding higher rates for the large
37 93Sierra: Doesn't us have more regionals carriers than DL?
38 cubsrule: That's fine, and the pilots are certainly entitled to their opinions, but as a passenger, why should I care? Is G7 any less safe? Any less comfortabl
39 JBirdAV8r: You're probably no likelier to crash at GoJet, and I'm sure their FA's are friendly. The equipment is very new. "Less reliable" is a question mark. B
40 nwaesc: ^YES.^ Don't forget nuanced differences for deicing, security, etc. I had high hopes that the new DCI "pipeline" would eliminate a lot of that, but i
41 SNCntry32: DL has the old General Motors stratategy when it comes to DCI Carriers, A DCI carrier for every family, purse, day, mood... Delta is a horrible airli
42 cubsrule: Maybe - but what? Is it about the politics or something more relevant?
43 JBirdAV8r: Sorry, I thought it was obvious. If better-qualified applicants are going to all the other regional carriers (of which most are hiring), that doesn't
44 cubsrule: I guess I'm confused. The industry seems to operate under the assumption that pilots with the qualifications for the job (on paper) are all equally q
45 Mir: I don't think anyone's ever argued that - the argument against merit pay is that it's nigh impossible to develop good metrics for such a system. Most
46 mm320cap: ASA and Skywest pilots who are upset about losing "their" flying to GoJets need to remember that it was only "their" flying because they took it from
47 cubsrule: Why does "pride in the work" equal "union pride?" It seems to me that the only "pride" issue at G7 is the quasi-scab issue with its creation.
48 Mir: You're right in this case that the issue with G7 isn't really union-based. However, it is based on the more overarching philosophy (which unionizatio
49 catiii: It's ambiguous, but I think it depends on the quality of training. Let's take two pilots, both with 1,500 hours, and both with ATPs. One got their 1,
50 cubsrule: I'll buy that. How does not subscribing to that philosophy make one a bad pilot?
51 FlyASAGuy2005: I thought it was over too. I guess not. JG tried to reverse this trend towards the end of his tenure but now there are new people at the reigns that
52 skyrat: Hey as long as the ticket prices are really low, who care's what the pilots make!
53 ABQopsHP: It means a whole lot to employees! My company just got bought out by OO and was merged into EV. I have watched my pay drop 12%, I am loosing my healt
54 ScottB: This will never happen again due to the Comair pilots' strike. Delta used to have the DCI carriers all segregated by hub: OH had CVG, MCO, and BOS/LG
55 FlyASAGuy2005: I hear everything you said but how do we explain it bein union based when many of the above mentioned issues involve pilots from the *same* union?
56 apodino: I know that and I think its a lame excuse. For one thing, the Railway Labor Act makes a strike nearly difficult to pull off, so a pilots strike at a
57 Flaps: So in other words the Trans States pilots screwed themselves. Yet is that not exactly the attitude you are displaying, only from the other side of th
58 freeze3192: It took 36 replies to show accurate information about GJ and why their employes aren't respected by their peers. Just goes to show how badly out of t
59 bhmdiversion: I don't know how this turned into a war of Scabs and such, but this is what ASA is reporting on their employee site on aircraft leaving the fleet: fro
60 mayor: How many millions did that "one incident" cost them?
61 FlyASAGuy2005: I think the whole Comair thing is overplayed. Not what happened. Most certainly not, but the ripple effect it caused, even into 2011. I think it all
62 RamblinMan: And now it comes out. Wow. In the same thread where I commended Mesa crews for professionalism in the face of adversity. What you have described is s
63 FlyASAGuy2005: Because they wouldn't agree to substandard pay for larger equipment? Yeah, I guess you can say that... One thing people will not get is how decisions
64 apodino: You know, thats an angle that hasn't been mentioned in this thread much, and is a very important component. Compass got bought out by Trans States af
65 RamblinMan: Oh for crying out loud... it's CR7s not 744s. This mentality of must-have-more-money-for-10-more-seats is beyond silly. Like I was saying, look where
66 mayor: Sure.....my son-in-law ran into this all the time when he was still flying for OO. The captain might refuse to let him ride jumpseat, even though the
67 SNCntry32: I guess being PMNWAirlink Ive noticed a big difference, like travel benifits being severley restricted. Hell I dont ever get priority on our own airc
68 RamblinMan: I'm really thankful that my interest in aviation isn't so much a fascination that I feel compelled to pursue it as a career. Sounds perfectly miserab
69 freeze3192: *Sigh* It's not for 10 more seats, its for 16 more seats. The TSA had crappy pay for the ERJ to begin with and then they wanted to pay the crews the
70 BMI727: Fine. If they think it's a bad deal and don't want to fly those planes at those rates, it is their right to refuse. But it is a bit silly to then get
71 JBirdAV8r: Hey, don't shoot the messenger. I just described the reality of the situation. I didn't say I give GoJet crews dirty looks and refuse to share my cra
72 JBirdAV8r: It's funny. I'm by no means a union shill and am a fiscal conservative and I find myself in an awkward position here. I know the situation you're talk
73 fjnovak1: FWIW, I've had a pair of GoJet flights on UAX, both DTW-ORD trips, and found them to be a reliable carrier with good service. Nice crews, and very pro
74 cubsrule: Sure, and maybe they are less desirable. Why not take the most desirable job? That's certainly what those who pick OO over G7 and a 135 operation, fo
75 enilria: Fast forward a couple of years and replace DL with AA and EV/OH with Eagle.
76 RamblinMan: Thank you for splitting that hair. For the lucky ones who have made it to the top tier, don't pretend this isn't true. I sincerely hope you make it t
77 dalalways: I had great experiences flying on them from JAX-IAD when I was a commuter FA for United. The F/A's and flight crew were always very nice.
78 Flaps: It could also be said that the ignorance OF the union attitude is overwhelming.......Aint it great to have a mind of your own?
79 Acey559: Ouch. I'll tell you what I'm beginning to loathe is the never ending rhetoric that some old NW employees STILL bring to these discussions. I understa
80 RamblinMan: Amen. But get ready for it with former-CO and former-FL employees, as well as the loyal pax. Oh, really? I'm the ignorant one because I don't buy int
81 FlyASAGuy2005: It's an informed (whatever that means) decision they made when they accepted the job at GoJet. And as to "it's only a CR7", I guess you can say that
82 RamblinMan: It's "informed" because I doubt the pay scales are somehow hidden before you are hired. You know the rate, and if you decide it's worth your time, yo
83 FlyASAGuy2005: Of course it's an informed decision. You're not reading through the lines very well. I said whatever that means because it's a stupid one to make to
84 RamblinMan: That's just reality. I don't think it's appropriate for you or me or anyone else to decide that it's "stupid" for someone to accept a job just becaus
85 norcal: Learn the history of GoJet, then you'll understand why it is hated so much in the industry. It's an alter-ego carrier that was used to circumvent a l
86 JBirdAV8r: I'm not sure there's any value of getting nasty. Unions have their place and function. While I think a number of airlines can function quite well wit
87 MSPNWA: It's not a union line. It's called proper business practice to compensate employees more. The CR7 is not only a larger aircraft with more seats. In t