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QR773 Low Fuel Emergency, Juneyao 320 In The Way  
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8968 posts, RR: 76
Posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 19614 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Pretty weird incident in Shanghai the other day.

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=441d508b&opt=0

An Juneyao 320 ignored the instructions of ATC to abort the approach to make way for a QR 773 which had declared emergency due to low fuel while diverting to Shanghai's Hongqiao airport.

I am sure there is more behind it than written on avherald, but ignoring such instructions is strange.

The 320 was rather short on fuel as well. 2.9 tons remaining will give you more than one hour of endurance, while the 5 tons of the 773 will give you less than an hour...

What do you think was going on there?

wilco737
  


It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 19235 times:

Wow! just Wow...

"An Juneyao 320 ignored the instructions of ATC"

Can they be shot for that in China?  Wow!



harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 18708 times:

Apparently QR777 pilot declared "MAYDAY" and in any case the 320 in front should make way for it. A real disaster could have happened.

User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 18679 times:

Perhaps the Tower spoke to the Juneyao plane in English and the Juneyao pilots didn't understand (or make it look like they didn't understand).

User currently offlinerowan1mck From Australia, joined Aug 2011, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 18613 times:

Maybe a little off topic, but... it always makes me wonder, when an aircraft diverts to a 'secondary' airport for the same city as its intended destination, why do they position the aircraft to the intended destination? Wouldn't it be more sensible to bus the passengers between airports and just fly home from the diversion field?

User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2297 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 18535 times:

Quoting rowan1mck (Reply 4):
Wouldn't it be more sensible to bus the passengers between airports and just fly home from the diversion field?

Well, first you would need to find enough transport to move perhaps several hundred people, their baggage, and any freight between the two airports, and the aircraft would need to be repositioned to the original airport anyway for the return flight, or you would need to move pax, bags, and freight to the divert airport, so why not just send them all to the destination field together?



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlinenyc2theworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 662 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 18284 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 5):
Well, first you would need to find enough transport to move perhaps several hundred people, their baggage, and any freight between the two airports, and the aircraft would need to be repositioned to the original airport anyway for the return flight, or you would need to move pax, bags, and freight to the divert airport, so why not just send them all to the destination field together?

Not to mention arranging catering for the return flight along with fuel.



Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
User currently offlineTsveto4nik From Azerbaijan, joined Nov 2010, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 18145 times:

Quoting mffoda (Reply 1):
Can they be shot for that in China?

Sure, absolutely... it's common practice for Chinese pilots, it's written in the concracts... happens almost every day...
Oh, and if it happens in Russia, pilots are being eated by special airport bears immediately after the landing...


User currently offlineWCARN From China, joined Jun 2011, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 17952 times:

Who can tell me what the truth is?

Juneyao Responses to Rumors on "Qatar Airways' Alternate Landing"

http://bit.ly/n7oEGc

In recent days, there have various rumors on "Qatar Airways' alternate landing" spreading on the Internet, which involves Juneyao Airlines to some extent. In this regard, Juneyao Airlines makes the following statement:


1. The event concerned in the various rumors are currently being investigated by civil aviation authorities with no official findings and conclusions have yet been released as of now. Juneyao Airlines is actively cooperating with the investigation by civil aviation authorities and the involved flight crew have been suspended from duty pending on the investigation.


2. The contents of some online discussions are altered from the reality and the true situations of the actual event. In accordance to the relevant rules set by civil aviation authorities, and based on a responsible attitude to the fact, the company will thereby temporarily not be releasing any details during the official investigation.


3. Upon the release of official investigation findings by civil aviation authorities, the company will then release our internal investigation findings as well as the follow-up actions to be taken in addressing the issue.

Juneyao Airlines Co., Ltd

Aug. 24, 2011

[Edited 2011-08-24 23:42:41]

User currently offlineWCARN From China, joined Jun 2011, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 17945 times:

It is said the Juneyao polit is a Korean.

User currently offlineInsideMan From Vatican City, joined Aug 2011, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 17542 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 3):
Perhaps the Tower spoke to the Juneyao plane in English and the Juneyao pilots didn't understand (or make it look like they didn't understand).

I've met my share of pilots for chinese (startup) airlines and their English proficiency is always scary!
I wouldn't be surprised if this was exactly what happened.....


User currently offlineRubberJungle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 17370 times:

Much of the so-called "news" about this appears to have been taken as "fact" despite being gathered from Internet forums and rumours, rather than the old-fashioned practice of journalism and verifying information before posting it.

User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2596 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 17266 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 11):
Much of the so-called "news" about this appears to have been taken as "fact" despite being gathered from Internet forums and rumours, rather than the old-fashioned practice of journalism and verifying information before posting it.

I would think that avherald.com is one of the most reliable souces in aviation news. The report is pretty self explanatory, there is very little chance of misinterpreting what was said.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinenethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 1068 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15420 times:

When fly into China, fly a Chinese flagged carrier!


Let's just blame it on yields.
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6299 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13642 times:

Quoting mffoda (Reply 1):
Can they be shot for that in China?

Can you see my eyes rolling from here?

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 10):
I've met my share of pilots for chinese (startup) airlines and their English proficiency is always scary!
I wouldn't be surprised if this was exactly what happened.....

If the pilot is Korean, like WCARN says may be the case, his English may be better than his Chinese!


User currently offlinehz747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 12244 times:
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Quoting sw733 (Reply 14):

If the pilot is Korean, like WCARN says may be the case, his English may be better than his Chinese!

If that is true, this is true. Though if the pilot was Chinese and with English being taught everywhere in China nowadays, I would believe that younger Chinese pilots have better command of English than the old wise sages. Certainly, that's my experience, and I blame the internet for the youths having better spoken English, but terrible written English.

I would trust avherald, but it seems to soon to know for sure. Were there any other pilots in the area that have posted, ie, a United pilot listening in posting on PPRUNE? I suppose I don't want to believe that Juneyao just ignored the order...



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11396 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 14):
Quoting mffoda (Reply 1):
Can they be shot for that in China?

Can you see my eyes rolling from here?

It was a joke... I guess I selected the wrong smiley face   



harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlinevarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1583 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 10013 times:

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 10):
I've met my share of pilots for chinese (startup) airlines and their English proficiency is always scary!
I wouldn't be surprised if this was exactly what happened.....

you mean to say that from Chinese to Chinese, English language is mandatory?
boy, I am happy French is still accepted at CDG between tower and pilots.....



AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE
User currently offlinetommytoyz From Tonga, joined Jan 2007, 1353 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9467 times:

I read an account in German, and that article says the pilot refused to go around because he said he had waited long enough for his turn to land. It also states the pilot had been put on leave pending the investigation. If true, pilots like that have no business flying, not even gliders. Their minds are not working properly.

User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9203 times:

How did the QR aircraft come to be flying on low fuel; was it holding for too long?

What would be the normal alternate be for PVG? Dalian? Tianjin? Qingdao?

[Edited 2011-08-25 11:01:41]

User currently offlinecarnoc From China, joined Oct 2001, 875 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8451 times:

It appears that Qatar Airways believes its pilot-on-duty acted correctly since http://bit.ly/qhwvAO reports that the airline told a Chinese media that it actually permits its pilots to declare MAYDAY if the aircraft has only 5 tons of usable jet fuel left during a flight and "the MAYDAY declaration was primarily done due to the safety consideration for all passengers and crew members aboard".

It would be really interesting to see how the findings of official investigation will come up with, hopefully it will be released soon...

Regards,


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6299 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8270 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 19):
What would be the normal alternate be for PVG?

I have to imagine it will always be SHA first, much as it was here. The city is so large that, as proven in this case, one can be open whilst the other is closed. However, if both are closed, my guess would be Hangzhou, Ningbo, and Nanjing first, followed by places like Qingdao, Wuhan, and Nanchang.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 19):
Dalian? Tianjin?

These are both pretty far away from Shanghai. I cannot imagine they are high on the ideal list, but I could be wrong.


User currently offlinecarnoc From China, joined Oct 2001, 875 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8271 times:

Quoting carnoc (Reply 20):
How did the QR aircraft come to be flying on low fuel; was it holding for too long?

It was probably holding for too long at PVG before finally decided to land at SHA, there are mixed information as some Chinese reports say the aircraft had been holding around PVG for 2+ hours, some say only about 1.5-hour etc.

Regards,


User currently offlineGrid From Kazakhstan, joined Apr 2010, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8164 times:

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 18):
I read an account in German, and that article says the pilot refused to go around because he said he had waited long enough for his turn to land. It also states the pilot had been put on leave pending the investigation. If true, pilots like that have no business flying, not even gliders. Their minds are not working properly.

Unfortunately, impatience is big supply worldwide and China is not immune. It is unfortunate that this attitude might be creeping to aviators.



ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
User currently offlinejetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5660 times:

Quoting rowan1mck (Reply 4):
Wouldn't it be more sensible to bus the passengers between airports and just fly home from the diversion field?

Sometimes the diversion field is 500 miles (or more) from the destination.

buses just aren't fesible.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
25 redhair : hahahahahahahaha, you really made my day with this comment
26 Post contains links carnoc : One of the regional bureaues of Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) has announced the findings and decisions into the incident, and it seems
27 Post contains links kaitak : They don't do half-measures when it comes to errors! Here's a further report from the Sydney Morning Herald: http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...p
28 Post contains links WCARN : Quoting "Note the reference to an error by the QR crew; the Chinese punishment may have been quite harsh, but I can't think that QR will look too kind
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