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Boeing Board Weighs 737 Upgrade Next Week  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4162 posts, RR: 89
Posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 12842 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Bloomberg are reporting that the Boeing Board may approve the new 737 as early as the 29th and that there is strong demand for the model.

Boeing Co. (BA) has customers lined up for an upgrade of its best-selling 737 with more fuel-efficient engines as it awaits board approval for the project as soon as Aug. 29, the planemaker’s business-development chief said.

Demand should be similar to that for the new A320neo from Airbus SAS, Nicole Piasecki said today in an interview. Airbus decided in December to update its single-aisle jet with new engines and racked up more than 1,000 orders and commitments within seven months as airlines scrambled for production slots.

“We’re heavily engaged with customers across the world right now who are excited about the product,” Piasecki said. “A lot of our customers are going to want to get access to it as fast as possible. That dynamic will exist for us in the same way it existed for Airbus.”


More at Source

WN are widely expected to be official launch customer for the new variant and may announce in conjunction with Boeing BOD approval, or at a time of their choosing, I'll offer that as an opinion givven I can't provide a sourced link.

Interesting times for new orders this year and pleasing to see that we've so much activity and it's still August.


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30977 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 12824 times:
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A couple hundred from WN and FR finally consummating their order for 200+ (NG and RE) would be a nice boost.

User currently offlineqfa787380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 weeks ago) and read 12673 times:

Will be interesting to see how many orders they actually get in a short time compared to the Neo. I would hope more than WN/FR are interested.

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5576 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 weeks ago) and read 12661 times:

Quoting qfa787380 (Reply 2):
Will be interesting to see how many orders they actually get in a short time compared to the Neo. I would hope more than WN/FR are interested.

I don't expect the flurry that the NEO got, but it should do alright. Of course, AA is already signed up (sort of), so you have:

AA
WN (likely)
FR (possible)

Who else?

AS
DL
UACO

others?

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10023 posts, RR: 96
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 weeks ago) and read 12625 times:
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Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Bloomberg are reporting that the Boeing Board may approve the new 737 as early as the 29th and that there is strong demand for the model.

The sooner the better I'd say, as the demand potential has been abundantly clear for a long time.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Demand should be similar to that for the new A320neo from Airbus SAS, Nicole Piasecki said today in an interview.

No surprise there...

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
“A lot of our customers are going to want to get access to it as fast as possible. That dynamic will exist for us in the same way it existed for Airbus.”

I must admit I can readily agree with the comments, but they do make you wonder what was happening in Boeing CA head-office for the last 12 months....   

Quoting qfa787380 (Reply 2):
Will be interesting to see how many orders they actually get in a short time compared to the Neo

Indeed.

Mind you, I've got to wonder just how far Boeing will keep this charade going in their bid to "dupe" Airbus into launching the A320NEO. Gads, if they're not careful they'll actually end up with real orders for the "RE". I can't see that helping the elegant misdirection strategy they're supposedly engaged in  

Rgds


User currently offlineqfa787380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 weeks ago) and read 12597 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 3):
others?

Major lessors(with Leap as the only engine GECAS might jump onboard early)
Fly Dubai
Qantas
All Nippon
any other major 737 operator

I'm more interested in the specs however and the EIS. Who will receive the 1st plane? Will EIS be 2016 or 2017? What will be the final fan diameter? Will they add any nifty bits of technology?


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4162 posts, RR: 89
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12413 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

One point from the article that I found to be most interesting is the following;

Some customers with large numbers of current 737s on order may seek to convert those into contracts for the new version once it’s officially for sale, Piasecki said.

Is this a statement from Boeing that they will allow those carriers to make the conversion or will they take the same approach as Airbus, that is, no conversions of A320oeo to neo? It's one thing to say they may, another as to whether they are going to do it.

Thanks and regards

Paul.



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 799 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12056 times:

Maybe OK for Boeing as long as the old version aircraft are already scheduled for delivery after the RE is in production and a decent top up order is made as well!

User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11896 times:
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How will boeing handle all those orders? Will a new assembly line have to be built?


avi8
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11870 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 4):
I must admit I can readily agree with the comments, but they do make you wonder what was happening in Boeing CA head-office for the last 12 months..

WADR 12?????? (only)!!!! And if Lightsaber is right (or ??even not awfully wrong one wonders), the LeapX is going to be a bit adrift of the GTF engined planes.


User currently onlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1842 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11844 times:

Wait a minute. Where did WN come from? I thought AA was going to be 1st in line.

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8016 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11820 times:

My guess is that we'll see the 737 Next Generation offered with the CFM International LEAP-X engine, probably using the same "flattened bottom" engine nacelle design used on the 737-300/400/500 models so CFM could use a larger-diameter front fan for a lower fuel burn rate.

User currently offlinevegas005 From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 320 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11803 times:

So we all miss out on a 2-2-2 twin isle configured plane due to timing and Boeing's inability to react to the market. Kind of disappointing.

User currently offline2175301 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1069 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11646 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 4):
I must admit I can readily agree with the comments, but they do make you wonder what was happening in Boeing CA head-office for the last 12 months....   
Quoting vegas005 (Reply 12):
So we all miss out on a 2-2-2 twin isle configured plane due to timing and Boeing's inability to react to the market. Kind of disappointing.

Actually, I think Boeing is meeting the current market demand with the 737 Upgrade.

I believe that Boeing had fleshed out in good detail 2 potential versions of the 797 (narrow body and 2-2-2) and a 737 Upgrade, and presented the options to American Airlines (and some others). The customers chose which one they wanted - and right now that is the 737 Upgrade. I see nothing wrong with the process - or in Boeings thinking.

It may be that if AA (and others) had chosen to hold off purchasing for another year or two that the answer may have been different; but, I think Boeing got it right this time.

That does not mean that their is not a 797 in the works for later on. Just that the current airlines did not think that the premium of an all new 797 would offset the advantages of it at this time.

Have a great day,


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3253 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11581 times:

If say AS bought the RE model of the 737 that has the longest range possible, would they be able to do ANC-NRT? I'm guessing not without severe penalties, but would that be a.potential reason AS could get in line for few then? Or maybe even MIA or EWR-ANC?


AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12541 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11496 times:

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 13):
I believe that Boeing had fleshed out in good detail 2 potential versions of the 797 (narrow body and 2-2-2) and a 737 Upgrade, and presented the options to American Airlines (and some others). The customers chose which one they wanted - and right now that is the 737 Upgrade. I see nothing wrong with the process - or in Boeings thinking.

According to Albaugh himself, the 797 was pulled off the table not because of lack of demand but because Boeing couldn't figure out how to produce the aircraft at an acceptable rate in an acceptable time frame.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineph-bfa From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11439 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 3):
FR (possible)

I don´t think it is that likely, if they already expect they same number of orders as airbus racked up for the NEO, why would they give FR the huge discount they probably would ask for. I expect Boeing to be much more clever than that. Especially since slots are going to be limited in the future, they do not want to make the same mistake as they did with the previous big FR order (having the production line blocked with those cheap frames). Maybe it does open the door for a large discount on the NG series for FR..


User currently offlineNeutronStar73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10791 times:

I'll believe the big order hype when I see it. Until then, Boeing, stop messing around and start building the planes already! My goodness, talk about a management team that seems stuck in indecision. You have customers out there that need decisive action. Sure, you had a bit of a cash and engineering problem with the 787 and 747-8i, but you gotta get moving.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30977 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10707 times:
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Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 6):
Is this a statement from Boeing that they will allow those carriers to make the conversion or will they take the same approach as Airbus, that is, no conversions of A320oeo to neo? It's one thing to say they may, another as to whether they are going to do it.

I would expect the chances are directly proportional to the 737NG backlog.

Airbus' A320 Classic backlog ends right about the time the A320neo will start production, so if Airbus allowed conversions, they would end up with an underutilized FAL. Yes, Airbus have said they will build the Classic and neo together as necessary, but I honestly expect Classic production will end very soon after neo production begins.

With Boeing increasing production, I expect that if they have 737NG deliveries more than six months into 737RE deliveries, they will allow conversion (for a price, of course).



Quoting avi8 (Reply 8):
How will boeing handle all those orders? Will a new assembly line have to be built?

Boeing's current two lines are designed for 22 units per month, so they can handle the new 42-frame rate. The third line, currently handling the P-8 military model, is capable of handling 22 a month, as well and P-8 production is significantly lower than that. So Boeing's existing three lines should be able to assemble 60 737NGs / 737REs per month.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 9):
(t)he LeapX is going to be a bit adrift of the GTF engined planes.

I expect that was always going to be the case. The GTF is a more advanced design.



Quoting ph-bfa (Reply 16):
I don´t think it is that likely, if they already expect they same number of orders as airbus racked up for the NEO, why would they give FR the huge discount they probably would ask for.

FR's hangup is not price. It's the ability to resell their 737NGs. That's going to be even more important to them now, since with the A320neo and 737RE coming on line, the "window of opportunity" to place 737NGs at a profit will shrink faster.



Quoting NeutronStar73 (Reply 17):
I'll believe the big order hype when I see it. Until then, Boeing, stop messing around and start building the planes already!

It would help if CFM would stop messing around and bring the LEAP-X engine to market in 2011 as opposed to the planned 2016.  


User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 884 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9871 times:

Quoting qfa787380 (Reply 5):
Will

According to one industry assessment of the engine's performance, the SFC improvement of a 66in fan places its SFC improvement around 13-14% over the 155cm (61in) CFM56-7B engine that powers the 737 today, and once integrated onto the aircraft would deliver a fuel burn benefit of 10-12%.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...engined-737-fan-size-decision.html


User currently onlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6907 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9699 times:

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 12):
So we all miss out on a 2-2-2 twin isle configured plane due to timing and Boeing's inability to react to the market. Kind of disappointing.

I am convinced the 2-2-2 configuration was just a pipe dream. Seats make more money than aisles, and any trick to make the larger cross-section more efficient will work just as well with a smaller cross section. Therefore the 2-2-2 cross section will always fail in the face of the greater efficiency of a 3-3 cross section, no matter how much passengers may prefer it.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinebeertrucker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9029 times:

there is nothing saying a 2-2-2 won't come out for a 797. Just for now this is what they feel is best.


Fly HI
User currently offlinetravelhound From Australia, joined May 2008, 938 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8914 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 6):
Is this a statement from Boeing that they will allow those carriers to make the conversion or will they take the same approach as Airbus, that is, no conversions of A320oeo to neo?

It just might be the case with Boeing being just under a year latter in offering the 737 with a new engine, launching the plane represented less risk to its order backlog than it did for Airbus.

I think one question that needs to be answered is, will Boeing continue to offer NG's once the RE has been launched?

I would think the current one engine option for the 737 allows for a simplified supply chain and production process and therefore it might be in Boeing's interests to transfer as many orders with post RE entry into service delivery dates over to the new plane.

I'd also suggest allowing some operators of the 737 the option of converting existing orders to the RE could allow for a stronger business case for the RE in their fleets, thus resulting in a greater number of orders.


User currently offlinedfwrevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8632 times:

Quoting travelhound (Reply 22):
I think one question that needs to be answered is, will Boeing continue to offer NG's once the RE has been launched?

There's no doubt they would. In the interim between the official RE launch and introduction, there will be plenty of NG delivery spots that open from normal cancellations and shuffling. Boeing would continue to market the airplane both to fill those spots and provide top-offs for customers who don't want to introduce the new engine type.

For historical reference, Boeing booked the last 737 Classic order in 1999 when the 737NG was introduced in 1998.

Quoting NeutronStar73 (Reply 17):
Until then, Boeing, stop messing around and start building the planes already! My goodness, talk about a management team that seems stuck in indecision.

Take it easy. The consequences of this decision amount to billions of dollars. The cost of getting it wrong is worse than missing the early orders.


User currently offlinebrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8201 times:

WN should order 461 just to one-up AA  


Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
25 EA CO AS : AS has already said publicly they'd be interested in any new variants of the B737 but did not identify potential markets.
26 qfa787380 : Touche............I can reluctantly see the humour in that!
27 RWA380 : I am so glad AS is a 737 carrier and has no plans to change that, what I was wondering is there any potential variant of the RE that will have the le
28 Post contains images TP313 : It should be more or less capable of the EWR, NRT routes (although NRT could already be too close to comfort to the range limit). No way in hell of d
29 Stitch : Well the 737-700ER can do both missions quite comfortably now. I do not know what an AS 737-700 weighs empty, but using Boeing's OEM figure of 83,000
30 RWA380 : Thanks Stitch, I knew I'd get my answer, I was almost sure there was a variant to do this. I guess time will tell if AS is ready to try trans Bering f
31 Stitch : And that could be an issue, since I believe the 737-700ER would need two extra tanks for sufficient fuel load. It's a bit tough because Boeing doesn'
32 pylon101 : I am wodering if there is a possibility of an unexpected development at BOD meeting? Or we all agree that it is a formal thing and they just rubber st
33 sxf24 : It is doubtful there would be an unexpected development. Almost all companies brief their boards on a regular basis and get inputs from directors on
34 Post contains images seabosdca : The 797 will still happen, just much later than it would have without a 737RE. And it will be 3-3.
35 Stitch : Management would have briefed the Board of Directors on the various proposals and the Board likely has already green-lighted both the 737 Re-Engine a
36 Post contains images oykie : Anyone know when the board meeting is expected today? And does anyone know when it is expected to finished and announced? Would be cool to certify one
37 LPSHobby : although Gol has being very conservative lately they will probably order it too
38 Post contains links oykie : Here is a new sources stating the same as Bloomberg. http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2011...29/737re-up-at-boeing-board-today/ Leehman speculates that
39 1337DELTA764 : Perhaps this could include 777-style windows, which should reduce weight.
40 Post contains images oykie : From a passenger perspective that would have been nice
41 Revelation : But that would make it harder to build 737NG and 737RE on the same line, no? Also 777 widebody windows may not scale down to narrowbody very well, pe
42 Delimit : I believe he's talking about the style of window used, rather than part commonality. I can't recall the specifics, but the 777 uses a more modern, lig
43 Post contains links qfa787380 : Looks like Boeing will provide more clarification on this Tuesday US time. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Boeing...n-seen-rb-3643626259.html?x=0&.v
44 tdscanuck : All changes to primary structure require recertification. Tom.
45 WarpSpeed : There is talk of incorporating laminar flow designs (see Flightblogger) but McNearney is on record as saying Boeing is best served to avoid mission c
46 Post contains images oykie : I am so looking forward to their clarification! This he has stated several times. That means Lehman's hinting of a 787 style cockpit sound like a sli
47 Post contains links Stitch : Authority to Offer has been granted - Boeing Board Approves B737 Upgrade (by eaa3 Aug 30 2011 in Civil Aviation)
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