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Berlin's New Airport And The Nordic Countries  
User currently onlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7307 times:

Hi guys, AB has just announce to increase frequencies from Berlin to OSL, GOT, ARN and CPH from two to three daily during weekdays for the 2012 summer schedule, during which Berlin's new airport is to be opened (on 3 June).

source: http://www.airberlin.com/site/pressnews_dr.php?ID=3186&LANG=eng

Does anyone here has an insight as to how successful AB is concerning connecting passengers to/from the Nordic countries? I'm asking because I am under the impression that at the new airport, some of these routes might just be overserved (at least Mon thru Fri, judging from todays timetables):

*Oslo will see 6 daily arrivals from BER (3x AB, 2x DY, 1x FR)
*Stockholm gets up to 8 daily flights (3x AB, 2x SK, 1x DY, 1x 4U, 1x FR)
*Copenhagen can expect 7 daily flights (3x AB, 3x SK, 1x U2)

For comparison: FRA-OSL is 6 daily, whilst FRA-ARN/CPH are 7 daily each, so frequencies will be the same from Frankfurt and Berlin.

Also, Moscow will be served 8 times per day from Berlin (2x AB, 3x SU, 1x UN, 1x LH, 1x 4U), compared to 9 arrivals from FRA.

Now, what are your opinions? Will there be too much competition on these routes?

--Tobias--


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5195 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7247 times:

Well, if you're not counting transfer pax, just O&D, Frankfurt is much smaller then Berlin. 700.000 vs 3.6 million citizens. And the Berlin Brandenburg metropole is even much larger.

User currently onlineTobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7206 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):
Well, if you're not counting transfer pax, just O&D, Frankfurt is much smaller then Berlin. 700.000 vs 3.6 million citizens. And the Berlin Brandenburg metropole is even much larger.

Yes, of course, though not exactly as you say. FRA, MUC and the new BER will be of equal terms concerning O&D passengers. But this exactly my point: Is AB really that successful with funnelling connecting passengers to/from the Nordic countries through Berlin? Because connecting passengers make the difference between large FRA/MUC and medium-sized BER.

And, by the way, from the equal O&D pax numbers you can see that Frankfurt and Munich are high class business destinations, whilst yiels in Berlin are considerably lower.

--Tobias--

[Edited 2011-08-27 03:37:13]


PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7024 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 2):
FRA, MUC and the new BER will be of equal terms concerning O&D passengers

I'm glad you also stated that BER is a completely different O&D market.

As for AB increasing northbound flights ex BER, I think that's not a bad idea at all. In your example the only carrier with a hub structure and decent connections to CPH, ARN, OSL from BER is AB, so transfering pax from the nordic countries to medium-sized german or polish / czech / hungarian etc. airports have will save a lot of time transiting through BER.
Going OSL-FRA-HAJ is pointless



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9522 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6954 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):
Well, if you're not counting transfer pax, just O&D, Frankfurt is much smaller then Berlin. 700.000 vs 3.6 million citizens. And the Berlin Brandenburg metropole is even much larger.

The catchment area of FRA is larger than that of BER. You cannot count FRA alone, Offenbach, Wiesbaden, Mainz, Darmstadt, Main Taunus county etc. all have between 100K and 300 K population and form a metroplex.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Thread starter):

*Oslo will see 6 daily arrivals from BER (3x AB, 2x DY, 1x FR)

Of which FR goes to some remote airport and serves another clientele, jst to quote one.

BER-MOW has a lot of origin traffic due to the many Russians living in BER, far moe thaqn the FRA area.

AB changes its philosophy and concentrates more on hubs instead of spoke to spoke traffic. Hence, the nw routes focus much more n transit pax, not on O&D traffic



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinecityairline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6916 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Thread starter):
AB has just announce to increase frequencies from Berlin to OSL, GOT, ARN and CPH from two to three daily during weekdays

Great to hear! I'm especially excited that GOT too is being increased to thrice daily. Only a few years ago we had no connections at all to Berlin, the route being added in 2007. As recently as last summer, the second flight was added.
I have been on this flight a few times, atleast loads have been healthy.

Quoting Tobias2702 (Thread starter):
Does anyone here has an insight as to how successful AB is concerning connecting passengers to/from the Nordic countries?

I for one, thought during a long time that TXL-Scandinavia was mainly O/D, until this year. When I was waiting for my luggage by the belt at GOT after a flight on AB last month, I noticed more than half of the bags had connected through TXL!

//Alex



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineHELyes From Finland, joined Oct 2010, 957 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6360 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Thread starter):
Does anyone here has an insight as to how successful AB is concerning connecting passengers to/from the Nordic countries?

It looks AB is doing ok in HEL, they already have a rather close relationship with AY, the two airlines codeshare on DUS/TXL-HEL and on HEL-SIN. And their loyalty programs are linked too.


User currently offlinedazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6328 times:

Quoting Tobias2702 (Thread starter):
Also, Moscow will be served 8 times per day from Berlin (2x AB, 3x SU, 1x UN, 1x LH, 1x 4U), compared to 9 arrivals from FRA.

SU is 4x daily since April.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 3):
As for AB increasing northbound flights ex BER, I think that's not a bad idea at all. In your example the only carrier with a hub structure and decent connections to CPH, ARN, OSL from BER is AB, so transfering pax from the nordic countries to medium-sized german or polish / czech / hungarian etc. airports have will save a lot of time transiting through BER.

I would assume that a lot of the connecting traffic is aimed for southern europe as well.

Generally speaking, from what I have heared and red, the russian and scandinavian flights are those with the highest number of connecting passengers for AB in Berlin.


User currently offlineglareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4116 times:

Quoting HELyes (Reply 6):
It looks AB is doing ok in HEL, they already have a rather close relationship with AY, the two airlines codeshare on DUS/TXL-HEL and on HEL-SIN. And their loyalty programs are linked too.

Hubbing for AY pax coming from HEL makes sence since they are both One World. In OSL / ARN / CPH it might be difficult as they are now competing with LH and SAS, both Star Alliance. And both have direct flights to several German and European cities.
If not necessary I don't see LH using BER as a hub. They are doing fine with FRA / MUC / DUS.



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
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