cbrboy From Australia, joined Apr 2007, 55 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 27690 times:
Friday's QF8 from DFW to BNE diverted to NAN. The Qantas website shows that it spent 10 hours on the ground at NAN before continuing to BNE. Can anyone explain what happened? There have been previous problems with QF8 diversions where the crew went out of hours.
mountain From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 29 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 27375 times:
There have been several diversions going westbound due to low fuel caused by prevailing headwinds. That is one reason why QF8 is not scheduled non-stop Sydney in that direction, with instead a stop at Melbourne.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7850 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 24675 times:
The DFW to Brisbane flight is almost 16 hours, with ALL the computer systems a 747-400ER has they must know if they have to stop hours before the get to Fiji. QF should be able to get a crew from Sydney to Nadi by the time the DFW flights gets to Nadi. 10 hours is just ridiculous to make pasengers wait.
I AKL-LAX should still be viable (perhaps 5x week) with A332. But as I have said all along DFW should be via AKL... allows for good connections from MEL, SYD and well even though its a backtrack somewhat from BNE, those pax have to when flying to DFW anyway.
AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 5538 posts, RR: 26 Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 22869 times:
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7): If Qantas knows westbound will have fuel issues getting even to Brisbane, one would think it would have a designated stop ready and waiting, with crew dispatch expedited.
Not the if the diversion is not planned. It is usually decided at a time that would make your sceaniro not palusible. Actually, given the time when the decision to divert was probalbly taken, 10 hrs is not bad to get a crew to Nadi and take over the plane.
On a related note, I assume the out of time crew deadheads on the same plane?
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9): The DFW to Brisbane flight is almost 16 hours, with ALL the computer systems a 747-400ER has they must know if they have to stop hours before the get to Fiji. QF should be able to get a crew from Sydney to Nadi by the time the DFW flights gets to Nadi.
No, the weather is not as predictable as you might think, and ALL the computers of the 747-400ER are still not Artificial Intelligence grade, so no, they can´t exactly predict how the headwinds will eventually turn out to be en route.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7850 posts, RR: 8 Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 21934 times:
Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 11): If they left DFW with a full load of fuel and the winds were significantly more than forecast then there was nothing they could have done
I realize weather changes enroute, the fuel load when they left DFW may have been enough for the takeoff forcast but the pilots had to know hours before they got to Fiji they were going to have to land there. Qantas must have had over 8 hours of notice before that plane landed in Nadi. Enough time to gather a crew and fly from Sydney to Nadi.
nzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1509 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 20791 times:
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9): QF should be able to get a crew from Sydney to Nadi by the time the DFW flights gets to Nadi. 10 hours is just ridiculous to make pasengers wait.
Australia-NAN is not exactly BOS-LGA with hourly departures . Most airlines on the routes only operate once daily . So a ten hour delay is not bad for a diversion to a island in the middle of the south pacific .
SpeedbirdScott From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 11 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 19955 times:
Hello fellow A.netter... first time posting here on the forum although have enjoyed keeping up on commercial aviation here for years. Seems such a shame QF having such tremendous difficulties. Flew two glorious trips with them from the US to OZ and all over OZ and back. And I was amazed at how superior their service standards were in comparison to so many US and even European airlines. Sad to see all the bad press. But I guess the OZ market is now feeling the intense competition that the US and European markets have felt for so many years now.
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2607 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 19665 times:
How long will QF keep allowing these unscheduled stops to occur before changing routing, aircraft type? Seems they can't keep advertising nonstop service from DFW to OZ when it's becoming routine for them to have these island diversions. At some point it's plain false advertising. In these cases it seems a routing via LAX will get you to SYD faster.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7850 posts, RR: 8 Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 18902 times:
Quoting nzrich (Reply 16): Australia-NAN is not exactly BOS-LGA with hourly departures . Most airlines on the routes only operate once daily . So a ten hour delay is not bad for a diversion to a island in the middle of the south pacific .
Qantas flies many flights from east coast cities to Fiji, the passengers from the DFW flight deseve better then to get stranded in Fiji.
ditzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 695 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 18763 times:
Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 7): Does the entire crew get replaced or just the pilots?
The entire crew.
Quoting AR385 (Reply 12): On a related note, I assume the out of time crew deadheads on the same plane?
After operating so many hours, crew agreements stipulate a rest period must be undertaken. Sometimes, allowances are made for crew that want to get home. In Australia deadheading is still seen as duty time to a certain degree.
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14): Qantas must have had over 8 hours of notice before that plane landed in Nadi. Enough time to gather a crew and fly from Sydney to Nadi.
In the area of long haul cabin crew, despite announcing redundancies, Qantas is very short at the moment. Aircraft are leaving Australian without the minimum number of crew (from a service point of view) every day. If an entire 747 cabin crew needs to be put together at short notice, you'll find most of them are on days off or annual leave. Reserve coverage is minimal. Apparently Alan Joyce hates the idea of crew sitting around on reserve, despite running an airline, where it makes commercial and common sense to have such operational flexibility.
qf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2777 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 18714 times:
Is there any chance that this diversion wasn't actually weather related? They would usually stop in NOU if the headwinds were unfavourable (and the crews wouldn't have timed out), so stopping so far out means that the winds must have been absolutely horrendous...
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 10): But as I have said all along DFW should be via AKL...
Quoting vaus77w (Reply 19): Would their A380's be able to fly to DFW-SYD leg, or at least the DFW-BNE reliably?
The 2 that are coming in 2013/14 should easily be able to do DFW-BNE reliabily - SYD I'm not so sure about...
nzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1509 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 18415 times:
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20): Qantas flies many flights from east coast cities to Fiji, the passengers from the DFW flight deseve better then to get stranded in Fiji.
Actually Qantas does not fly to NAN with QF metal it puts it code on other flights mainly Air Pacific and a few Jetstar from SYD . But even from SYD its not always twice daily . So it doesn't have many flights to get a whole new crew to NAN .
"Pride of the pacific"
25 gemuser: For as long as it is necessary! People there is NOTHING unusual in fuel diversions across the Pacific, it is standard operating procdure, happens on
26 SUNRISEVALLEY: These QF8 diversions are rather puzzling . The FlightAware tracking taken from the various control center's data for this flight of the 26th., from th
27 bps3458: Mate, I am exactly the opposite. I am so glad we can fly to/from Texas without having to fly a domestic segment in the US on a US carrier. Flew via L
28 gasman: I can certainly see why you'd say this, but - no thanks. That would leave NZ with zero competition on AKL-LAX. Which is hardly likely to improve thin
29 thegeek: Care to post some supporting arguments? Even if they did fly AKL-DFW, I don't see why AKL-LAX needs to go. The A332 used on the AKL-LAX route couldn'
30 Airvan00: Look carefully again at the timetable!! JQ only flys 4 times a week to NAN. The only time I have been "stranded" on QF we were bussed to a motel and
31 KFlyer: It's an unfortune situation. But QF could have done better. At least switch that BNE stop to somewhere in the pacific? I doubt that they get a lot of
32 thegeek: Someone has posted in another thread that more than half of the flight leaves QF8 in BNE. The question is does it result in a lot of air on the LAX-&
33 Airvan00: Didn't someone post on here that the majority of pax left the aircraft in BNE for connecting flights to other cities? (apart from SYD) Is this the 4t
34 eoinnz: I thought the diversion was due to weather, as my Mum who was coming to Brisbane also had her flight divert too. There have been 3 or 4 diversions (an
35 thegeek: Do you have said statistics? Can you post them?
36 eoinnz: This was mentioned on a cabin crew call we have every month so don't have anything to actually share. But it came from the head of cabin crew at Qant
37 SUNRISEVALLEY: This is another A.net canard. There was a posting a couple of years ago from someone who knew what the charges were. They were very reasonable.
38 willzzz88: 1. QF can make this problem go away to 100% reliability instead of 95-98% by switching the BNE stop to AKL. In AKL possibly. JetConnect can have AKL-B
39 cbrboy: QF8 began 4 times a week DFW-BNE on 16 May, so as of Saturday 27 August it had flown 60 times. There have been five diversions so far, of which one w
40 GoBoeing: What are you basing this statement on? How do you know that?
41 qf002: It really does not happen to MEL anymore. Sure the diversions used to happen from time to time, but they simply do not happen any more due to the pla
42 RWA380: I understand QF employees, loyal fliers and Australians standing behind their carrier, wouldn't a bigger fuel load, or a little less cargo when depart
43 dfwexecplat: Here's a very interesting article someone had posted on another thread, but about mid way down article it specifically refers to DFW's profitability,
44 thegeek: What's interesting in that link is that it doesn't mention the DFW route as a chance to see A380 service, in spite of mentioning every other 744 dest
45 Jacobin777: Countless physicians go 2,3,4,5 hours "over-hours" yet they don't all of the sudden decide to go home....I can't recall my father doing an angiolplas
46 tdscanuck: Physicians don't have their license pulled and be unable to practice medicine again for the rest of their lives if they run over hours... Tom.
47 aerorobnz: 10h sounds like the mandatory rest time required before the same crew can operate again, rather than a whole new crew from SYD
48 igomarch: saw QF7 arriving into DFW, very hot weather http://youtu.be/T3NhnJEwSGo
49 IndianicWorld: Seriously, this again???? These things are not threadworthy each time they happen.
50 KELPkid: Does New Zealand allow fifth freedom US-NZ service? I.E. could DFW-AKL be ticketed by an Aussie carrier?
51 AR385: Well aside, from telling you with all due respect that if that is the case, your father is a physician I would really never see nor let come near me,
52 eoinnz: Really? Can you then please back up your reply with a source as to why I am wrong?[Edited 2011-08-28 22:53:11]
53 thegeek: Yes. Open skies exist between Australia and NZ AIUI. QF currently operate MEL-AKL-LAX so it's obviously not a problem. Could be for cabin though. I'd
54 wn700driver: Think about what you're saying... What in the hell is better than being stranded in Fiji?! Seriously. I can remember each and every flight to OZ I've
55 gasman: Ha. I love it! You definitely wouldn't let me near you then! As a physician myself, I get so bored with the parallels that are often drawn between av
56 Jacobin777: True, but they will for anything perceived as a felony, no matter if it was a mistake, etc. Doctors get sued all the time-many times for frivolous it
57 qf002: I'm looking at theqantassource.com - in the past 6 months (all I could be bothered to click through), the only diversions that have occurred for QF94
58 thegeek: If by all the time you mean a few times/year in SYD and less often in BNE, then I believe you are correct. Google reckons fog occurred at BNE 27/8/20
59 qf002: Oh yes, it's not exactly a daily occurrence - I was just pointing out that SYD/BNE get their fair share of weather related diversions, and that these
60 wn700driver: Wow, just way wow (can you tell I'm not a doctor?!). This is amazing, if for no other reason then that for all the people in the world who should kno
61 aerorobnz: It is feasible to increase permissible operational hours or reduce minimum rest time by doing things like increasing the number of tech crew from 3-4
62 GSPflyer: *Insert generic "This is why QF needs to order the 77L or 77W" comment here* You know they are coming when you read the title.
63 gemuser: This quote certainly shows up the old saying "there are lies, damm lies and Statistics". There have been THREE diversions due to the aircraft's range
64 thegeek: I can believe BNE-DFW (with a 789), but I don't see any aircraft on their way which are likely to be able to do MEL-DFW without being severely restri
65 RyanairGuru: QF do not have any 747 pilots at AKL, and if Ditzyboy is right to say the following about SYD... ...there no chance in hell of them cobbling together
66 qf002: They managed to do it when the diversion did occur, not sure how if they're that stretched... Also, the AKL diversion was due to hours running out af
67 Jacobin777: With respect, those are two incidents out of tens of thousands of flights/year.
68 aerorobnz: maybe not, but they do have multiple SYD/BNE/MEL flights they can fly them easily with a DFW-LAX-AKL flight time. The same can't be said for NAN/NOU.
69 AA777223: May I point out something that it seems no one here has stated yet? This flight began in may sometime, yes? For those of you who may have not visited
70 mogandoCI: if that's the case why didn't QF pre-plan a fuel stop at LAX, HNL, or AKL instead of putting the fate and reputation in the hands of luck ? if the co
71 LAXdude1023: It may be time for QF to think about different equipment for this flight.
72 sccutler: We are having heat which is very unusual this summer here; highs in the mid to high 100s, when low nineties are the norm. I should imagine that QF are
73 mcg: Were the passengers able to leave the airport in NAN? There are worse fates than 10 hours in Fiji.
74 mountain: Acquire Media (a financial news service) is reporting the flight was diverted due to fog at Brisbane. The alternate of Noumea was also fogged in. The