FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6872 posts, RR: 11 Posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 3263 times:
As I understand it, Pinnacle is to be the all jet carrier, getting Mesaba's 900s and 200s. Mesaba is to go all prop, retaining their Saab 340s and aquiring Colgan's 340s and Q400s through transfer, and finally the Colgan name being retired.
Was there a timeline set for all of this to happen? I can only assume that all 3 carriers are still ran independently and under 3 different operating certificates and seniority lists.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
wingnutmn From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 622 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3025 times:
All the jets are going to 9E, and all the props are going to 9L. All of XJ saabs are being returned and leases need to be negotiated with lease companies to see where the end up. It sounds like XJ operating certificate is the one being turned over to the faa when all is done, and 9L will be renamed XJ on their certificate. I really think most of this was due to the fact that corp. realized how big of a pain in the ass it is dealing with the MSP FSDO and decided it wasn't worth it to move all the Q's over to XJ. In all the latest letters to the employees from the new CEO, it sounds like Pinnacle may have bitten off more than they could chew and now are in damage control with many projects be reprioritiesed. We will see how everything looks in 6 months.
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6872 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2756 times:
Quoting wingnutmn (Reply 2): All the jets are going to 9E, and all the props are going to 9L. All of XJ saabs are being returned and leases need to be negotiated with lease companies to see where the end up. It sounds like XJ operating certificate is the one being turned over to the faa when all is done, and 9L will be renamed XJ on their certificate. I really think most of this was due to the fact that corp. realized how big of a pain in the ass it is dealing with the MSP FSDO and decided it wasn't worth it to move all the Q's over to XJ. In all the latest letters to the employees from the new CEO, it sounds like Pinnacle may have bitten off more than they could chew and now are in damage control with many projects be reprioritiesed. We will see how everything looks in 6 months.
Okay so the new plan is to transfer the remaining Saabs to the Colgan certificate then rename the company Mesaba. What was making things more difficult with the original plan which was to tranfer the Qs to Mesaba and simply retire the 9L certificate (or just shut it down and keep the certificate for possible future endeavors or just sell it).
azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3633 posts, RR: 29 Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2624 times:
After lots of time, money and energy was spent at Mesaba in designing training curriculum and all the other details needed to transfer people and plane from Colgan to Mesaba, Corp. did a 180. They did this 180 after they were told that there was no future at DL for the remaining Saabs in an at risk venture. So, instead of transferring all the Qs and Colgan Saabs to the Mesaba certificate, it's easier to transfer the LGA saabs for US to the Colgan certificate. 7 as opposed to 40+ planes. At that point, the Mesaba certificate will be discontinued and Colgans name changed to Mesaba. Nobody has said what the surviving airline code will be, but let's hope it's XJ and not 9L. At the end of December, when DL connection Saab flying ends, the remaining saabs will be flying for US in LGA. The Eagan, MN SOC will remain until those planes are transfered to the Colgan certificate. In the meantime, the Mesaba General offices will move to MEM, leaving the GO vacant, with the exception of the SOC until the txfr is complete. The Mesaba training center will remain as a "North" campus providing training for CRJ200, 900, Saab and a rumored Q400 sim.
The MSP FSDO is notorious for being pains in the butts and one such desire by them was for Mesaba to do "proving runs" on the Q when it came over to the XJ certificate. The MSP is not familiar with the Q, therefore were going to treat it as if it were brand new to Mesaba, never mind the fact that Colgan has been operating them this whole time. Now, since the Mesaba certificate will be leaving the MSP FSDO and its jurisdiction, they've stepped up their pain in the butt factor in an almost juvenile display of malcontent.
My perspective: Sean Menke will be great for this organization. He's got a lot of dead weight to get rid of and an uphill battle transforming 4 cultures into 1. He's inherited a total mess with misguided priorities, projects and incredible discontent amongst the employees, especially at Mesaba. XJ has lost TONS of talent, because they don't want to move to MEM or weren't picked in the political musical chairs game for an "end state" position. Then you've got the Pinnacle FAs who are throwing the Mesaba FAs under the bus in an insulting 3:1 seniority integration. Even then, there won't be room for all our FAs. Then you've got the pilots who while working under one contract have incredibly unhappy factions within each group due to the awful arbitrated seniority list. I know that more than ever are Mesaba pilots clamoring to leave this place. It's astonishing that over a year has passed and virtually nothing apparently has been done. The only major work in bringing these airlines together has been done by ALPA with a joint contract and seniority list.
It seems that this fall we'll see the first movements of airplanes between certificates, with the Mesaba jets. Their plan (which has been shot down numerous times by the FAA, initially they wanted this to happen July 29. LOL. Right.) is to transfer the Mesaba jets and pilots to the Pinnacle certificate and fly in a "fenced" operation. At a predetermined date and with a predetermined training footprint, the Mesaba pilots will trickle "over" the fence and become Pinnacle pilots. While in the fenced operation, Mesaba pilots will only fly with fellow Mesaba pilots doing it the Mesaba way.
Until all this happens, we continue to operate as 3 airlines wasting vast amounts of resources and synergies. A "realignment" just came out and will see HUNDREDS of people going through training as people shuffle between equipment and bases. This is just the first of several realignments as the DL saab bases close and the company finally gets people into seats/bases to solve the staffing (PCL and Colgan) problems.
So... I'll recap with my original statement. This is a TRAINWRECK.
What a can of worms. Thanks for going itno such detail AZ. I've heard rumors that the EV/XE merger isn't going too well either. From the whole SureJet debacle to so much intigration problems with the pilots/FAs/mechs. However, I had no idea the Pinnacle Corp. house was so messed up as of late, and this far along in the process (or lack there of I guess). I just hope that they can get their act together for the employees' sake.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3971 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2425 times:
Wait a minute: How did the Pinnacle FA"s get away with a 3:1 integration rather than DOH? The groups can't be that far apart on the seniority deal.
You wonder if this mess was the reason Phil Trennary was shown the door. I am amazed though at how professional the Mesaba crews have stayed in all of this. I am hearing a lot of bad things about the Pinnacle crews though from guys who have been in their jumpseat lately. In one case, one crew did not run any checklists, and the FO who was the pilot flying was playing with his Iphone while the plane was below 10000 feet in sterile cockpit. I am not saying this is true of everyone there, but Pinnacle doesn't sound like the best operation to me, and that is what I worry about with Mesaba, who have had some great people over the years, and its sad to see a lot of them leave, but its probably not a bad thing for them after all the BS they have put up with (Including the sham bankruptcy by greedy MAIR management led by Paul Foley, who is ironically now at Mesa)
azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3633 posts, RR: 29 Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2297 times:
Apodino - the PCL FAs formulated a 3:1 plan and then voted on. It overwhelmingly passed. Then, because PCL mgmt is on their side, they're working together to implement such plan. Nevermind that the pilots are considered "single carrier" as evident by our joint contract and seniority list. The PCL FAs and PCL mgmt maintain this is an asset transfer and "single carrier" status doesn't apply. It's a disaster and that's how they've gotten away with it. XJ's AFA is vigorously fighting this and we'll see how it turns out.
Thanks for the kind words regarding XJ employees. We took the high road and remained professional during our contract '04 debacle, Ch11/scamruptcy and we will continue that attitude now. We'll be XJ until the bitter end!