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Fokker 100NG In 2013!  
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5141 posts, RR: 15
Posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 29190 times:

A prototype of the new Fokker 100 will be ready in two years. The . The aircraft will be a modernized version of the current Fokker 100. Recently Rekkof got 20 million euro subsidy from the Ministry of Economic Affairs for the development of a new plane.


The new Fokker has a capacity of 120 passengers and will be the most energy efficient type of device are.

link: Dutch only:

http://www.nu.nl/economie/2603849/nieuwe-fokker-100-2-jaar-klaar.html

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 771 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 29183 times:
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I started a similar topic a couple of weeks ago but apparantly, there was no news.
Good to hear that the new Fokker 100 will be flying in 2013.

I flew the Fokker 70 a couple of weeks ago and the machines are very nice. Only those tiny windows.....however it is a nice trademark. I pressume the Fokker 100 NG will not have a aft-door (like the DC-9 and MD80/90).


User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 29007 times:

They also mentioned that the design is finished.This was btw during the celebration for the 100 year aniversary of the first Fokker.

User currently offlinecslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 29022 times:

Other than AF/KL who'd order this plane? This market segment looks to be crowded, will there be enough sales opportunities to make a Fokker 100NG viable?


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 28944 times:

What engines are they planning on?


harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 28923 times:

Quoting mffoda (Reply 4):
What engines are they planning on?

Thats something I want to know too, why not make it a F100NG and NEO at the same time.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13130 posts, RR: 100
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 28892 times:
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This implies EIS in 2015. Any detail in the link?

Quoting kl911 (Thread starter):
The new Fokker has a capacity of 120 passengers and will be the most energy efficient type of device are.

Even when compared to the CS100? Quite a bit of time has passed since the design was proposed and technology has moved on. I think there is a market for the Fokker 100NG, but mostly for shorter missions.

Does anyone have a link to the engine?

No details on the home page:
http://ngaircraft.com/

I personally am a fan of the lightest MTOW (seems to have the best economics for most of the missions these will be flown).

But which engine? Note: I'm asking as all indications are the engine was put up for re-bid, but I honestly haven't followed the Fokker 100NG since the last a.net thread I participated in.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5141 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28781 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 6):
But which engine? Note: I'm asking as all indications are the engine was put up for re-bid, but I honestly haven't followed the Fokker 100NG since the last a.net thread I participated in.

The latest info I can find is from an aviationweek.com article from march 2011, quoting this:

NG Aircraft, the company behind the new Fokker 70/100NG, is planning to have the aircraft powered by Rolls-Royce BR725s, the same engine type that powers the Gulfstream G650.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28777 times:

I seem to recall that they were planning on using the same RR engines as the Gulfstream 650


What the...?
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1610 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28768 times:

Quoting kl911 (Thread starter):

A prototype of the new Fokker 100 will be ready in two years. The . The aircraft will be a modernized version of the current Fokker 100.

That will be the technology demonstrator.


Quoting cslusarc (Reply 3):
Other than AF/KL who'd order this plane? This market segment looks to be crowded, will there be enough sales opportunities to make a Fokker 100NG viable?

And even the AF/KL ship has sailed. My opinion: too little too late. Without the latest engines with LEAP-X/GTF technology it's obsolete before it has even flown.

Quoting mffoda (Reply 4):
What engines are they planning on?

With a GTF, it might find a niche, but I'm not holding my breath   



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28673 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 7):

Beat me by 67 seconds...



What the...?
User currently offlinescarebus03 From Ireland, joined Apr 2005, 304 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28647 times:

Bravo Rekkof!

I sincerely hope it goes ahead. The Fokker 70/100 is an aircraft I always liked both aesthetically and to fly in. It does have one important thing going for it which is a successful track record thanks to the original design. It always seemed quite roomy inside for it's overall size. And if they can get into service I think it would fit in the A318/736 niche and be desirable due to it's lower operating costs.

It would certainly be a retro design in todays market.

Brgds



No faults found......................
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12148 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28635 times:

Well, I hope it has better hot airport performance than the original F-100 did. During the summer months at DFW, AA couldn't take a full pax load.

User currently offlineiceberg210 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28615 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 9):
With a GTF, it might find a niche, but I'm not holding my breath

THAT should be the key for these guys. Could the F100NG compete against the C Series, MRJ, RRJ, etc?

Not with the original F100NG, they've been talking about this almost since Fokker went under, so they're going to need a HEAVILY updated F100 to compete. (ie new engines, DEFINITELY GTF or some other advanced engine although GTF would be my preference if I were in Rekkof's shoes...) the older RR is not going to cut it, without a significant rework. Let's remember it's not just about efficiency it's also about maintenance etc, and that's one place where that engine doesn't compete well especially in overhaul intervals compared to it's competitors.

The frame is a great frame, light for what it is, efficient, so really it'll be engines, other aerodynamic improvements etc on the frame, but I guess the point is as much as I really want to see the F100 fly again and be epically successful it's going to need more than just a once over, and I really hope they go with the next generation of engines otherwise this beautiful aircraft will still be dead in the water. As a fan of rear engines, and big T Tails here's wishing the F100 tons of luck!



Erik Berg (Foster's is over but never forgotten)
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4739 posts, RR: 39
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28583 times:
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Quoting frigatebird (Reply 9):
Without the latest engines with LEAP-X/GTF technology it's obsolete before it has even flown.

That is what I fear for this project as well.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 9):
With a GTF, it might find a niche, but I'm not holding my breath

Me neither.  .

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Well, I hope it has better hot airport performance than the original F-100 did. During the summer months at DFW, AA couldn't take a full pax load.

That was not the strongest point of the F70/F100 series. Also the cruise speed of the currents Fokkers is rather slow compared to the more modern competitors which already being offered on the market.


User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 28227 times:

It's interesting that they were looking towards Brazil for its aerostructure components.....

.
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=33672

Quote:
"NG Aircraft has been discussing a Brazilian partnership on the Fokker 100NG since June last year. Anapolis's city authorities, it says, are developing a high-technology aeronautical zone in the vicinity of the civil airport.

'[This facility] will be part of our own supply for the Fokker NG,' says Van Eeghen, adding that it will produce subassemblies and components not only for the twinjet but also third-party programmes. 'It's an industrial initiative from the government. It will also work for the global aviation industry'."


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...tner-on-proposed-fokker-100ng.html

So they're viewing this not as a competition to Embraer but a synergistic development?


In any case, a welcome diversion from the ongoing NEO MAX battles raging on this board...if not for anything else.   



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently onlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2444 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 27888 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 6):
I personally am a fan of the lightest MTOW

Since that is what most airports base the landing fees on, is it not?

At any rate, I know they'd get a big order from me in my fantasy fleet.

 
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Including the 70 and possible 130 versions!   



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13130 posts, RR: 100
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 27875 times:
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Quoting EPA001 (Reply 14):
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 9):
Without the latest engines with LEAP-X/GTF technology it's obsolete before it has even flown.

That is what I fear for this project as well.

I am of that opinion too.  

However... The BMR725 could be updated with lower fuel burn. Not Leap-X/GTF fuel burn, but 'good enough.'
The issue is the BMR715 didn't have enough cycles between overhauls. It was one factor that limited Boeing 717 sales. The CF-34 has set a new standard for engine maintenance in the RJ market. Business jets simply do not see the cycles that one would put an RJ through.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 7):
NG Aircraft, the company behind the new Fokker 70/100NG, is planning to have the aircraft powered by Rolls-Royce BR725s, the same engine type that powers the Gulfstream G650.

Thank you.

Quoting iceberg210 (Reply 13):
THAT should be the key for these guys. Could the F100NG compete against the C Series, MRJ, RRJ, etc?

With a slightly modified BMR-725?    With a highly modified BMR725 (new turbine materials at a minimum).    Not for all missions (of course). But there would be a niche *if* the engines could cut fuel burn a little and the cycles between overhauls were to be dramatically extended.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 15):
So they're viewing this not as a competition to Embraer but a synergistic development?

Until Embraer re-engines...   


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4739 posts, RR: 39
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 26922 times:
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Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 16):
At any rate, I know they'd get a big order from me in my fantasy fleet.

The Fokker 100 is a very comfortable flying machine. I have flown it as a passenger on a weekly basis.   Your fantasy customers would surely appreciate your choice.  .


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 26162 times:

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 3):
Other than AF/KL who'd order this plane? This market segment looks to be crowded, will there be enough sales opportunities to make a Fokker 100NG viable?

As much as I love to see it fly again, I think its going to be a flop. the F100 was a medium success thanks to AA, KLM TAM and USAir, but the F70 was a bust. All of the American companies dumped theirs years ago. The 717, which would be its competitor at the time was also not all that successful. There simply isn't a market for it with the C Series, E-190 and some of the other jets coming out. Airbus and Boeing can't even sell their smallest aircraft the A318 and 736.


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 24690 times:

Brilliant, I'm so happy to see that the 100-seat market isn't going to be lost to wing-mounted engines. She'll look gorgeous with the winglets, and hopefully the "scalloped" engine nacelles. My year'll be made if a US airline announces orders for her.

Fokk yeah!   



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 24646 times:

Holy competition, batman...E-jets, CRJ's, Superjets, with older engines, (all of which are candidates for the GE NG34 engine upgrade), and CSeries, MRJ, 737-7 and 319NEO all with the latest tech engines.

It looks like Rekkof will use a new wing, (built by whom?), and an engine specifically designed for long distance, low cycle use on their high cycle RJ...to do battle in a segment that isn't exactly booming at the moment and is as crowded as a tiki bar on dollar margarita night.

I wish them luck but they have some tough sledding ahead.



What the...?
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 24392 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 17):
Until Embraer re-engines...   

How far away from a tech-x flight do you think we are?

NS


User currently offlinenipoel123 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 23854 times:

As much as I hope for a Fokker 70/100NG, I don't see it happening. Maybe, if they can offer them at real low prices, that Iran Air and the likes will buy them, to replace their current F100s, but they're too late for the major airlines.


one mile of road leads to nowhere, one mile of runway leads to anywhere
User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 22790 times:

Sharp!!! Much better looking than the past prototypes!


J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
25 CrimsonNL : I agree, I'd love to see another Dutch airplane take to the skies but I fear it will be a giant flop..
26 truemanQLD : Australian mining charter airlines (i.e. Alliance and QFLink airlines) are trying to get there hands on as many F100's as they can at the moment, so
27 kiwiandrew : It's a nice dream, but let's be serious, the type has been out of production for 14 years. Technology has moved on considerably in the meantime. Even
28 r2rho : I'll believe it when I see it, there have been to many false F100 resurrection stories in the past. Don't get me wrong, I love the Fokker and would li
29 parapente : People on this forum/thread are not stupid and of course all are asking the same questions. Here is an overcrowded market with low demand.There are lo
30 drgmobile : Just what the world needs: another government subsidized aircraft in an already overcrowded commercial aircraft market segment, only this one is not o
31 Post contains links lightsaber : 2016 The test schedule is conservative enough to allow a 2nd variation for the E-jets in the same timeframe. http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...A
32 Post contains images ASA : I was always a fan of the Fokkers. My flying experience started with the F-27s and F-28s that BG operated once upon a time ... I'm not sure if any of
33 Bennett123 : IMO, the following might be interested. 1. Countries who would rather not buy American, (Iran, Cuba, Zimbabwe etc) 2. Executive Jet owners. 3. China,
34 drgmobile : China already has access to far superior technology and I have a hard time believing that any major commercial airframe today could be built without
35 Post contains images Bennett123 : It was a bit of a struggle
36 peanuts : Aesthetically it looks stunning. T-tail, winglets of some kind. Clean wings. Couldn't ask for more. The dutch capitulated on this one in the 90's. Bom
37 Post contains images Aviopic : Internally we are informed today that the finances for the modification and certification(phase 1) of the proto(internally known as Q1, externally kno
38 rlwynn : That is correct. It is funny about Fokkers and I. I have flown on the F50 and F70 so many times out of CGN and DUS in the most crazy weather. I mean
39 Semaex : If Wikipedia is to be trusted, Austrian Errors have a combined 70/100 fleet of 24 planes, and so far I've not heard them ordering any Embrear or C-Se
40 lightsaber : Good to hear. My only concern is RR putting enough into the engines (cycle life, mostly). I wish the F100NG well. Lightsaber
41 Post contains images SASMD82 : Guys there are so many old Fokker 100s and Avro Jets to be replaced!! Also I don't think the B737-600s and A318s flying around will have a very long l
42 Post contains images Dash9 : They already purchased the DC8 blueprints for their ARJ21 Dash9
43 Post contains links and images Aviopic : Austrian has signed a life time service contract for the current F70/100 fleet last year which runs till 2020. So I don't see them ordering E-jets or
44 bjorn14 : Fokker would be under the same embargo as Airbus, Boeing and even Embraer.
45 Post contains links PC12Fan : If the Rekkof site is still current, it will have bigger windows. http://www.rekkof.nl/galint.html
46 Post contains images airkas1 : Great news Willem! Looking forward to seeing this project evolve. Please remember us at Eelde if you ever need to shoot some approaches
47 Dash9 : Agree, apparently their wing is bad. What I meant is that they already have their regional jet programme. Dash9
48 Post contains images EPA001 : I hope you are right. I love flying in the F70 and especially the F100. If the NG's are good enough, even without Leap-X or GTF engines, that would b
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