kl911 From Netherlands, joined Jul 2003, 5429 posts, RR: 15 Posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 29689 times:
A prototype of the new Fokker 100 will be ready in two years. The . The aircraft will be a modernized version of the current Fokker 100. Recently Rekkof got 20 million euro subsidy from the Ministry of Economic Affairs for the development of a new plane.
The new Fokker has a capacity of 120 passengers and will be the most energy efficient type of device are.
SASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 798 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 29682 times:
I started a similar topic a couple of weeks ago but apparantly, there was no news.
Good to hear that the new Fokker 100 will be flying in 2013.
I flew the Fokker 70 a couple of weeks ago and the machines are very nice. Only those tiny windows.....however it is a nice trademark. I pressume the Fokker 100 NG will not have a aft-door (like the DC-9 and MD80/90).
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13788 posts, RR: 100
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 29391 times:
This implies EIS in 2015. Any detail in the link?
Quoting kl911 (Thread starter): The new Fokker has a capacity of 120 passengers and will be the most energy efficient type of device are.
Even when compared to the CS100? Quite a bit of time has passed since the design was proposed and technology has moved on. I think there is a market for the Fokker 100NG, but mostly for shorter missions.
kl911 From Netherlands, joined Jul 2003, 5429 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 29280 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 6): But which engine? Note: I'm asking as all indications are the engine was put up for re-bid, but I honestly haven't followed the Fokker 100NG since the last a.net thread I participated in.
The latest info I can find is from an aviationweek.com article from march 2011, quoting this:
NG Aircraft, the company behind the new Fokker 70/100NG, is planning to have the aircraft powered by Rolls-Royce BR725s, the same engine type that powers the Gulfstream G650.
scarebus03 From Ireland, joined Apr 2005, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 29146 times:
I sincerely hope it goes ahead. The Fokker 70/100 is an aircraft I always liked both aesthetically and to fly in. It does have one important thing going for it which is a successful track record thanks to the original design. It always seemed quite roomy inside for it's overall size. And if they can get into service I think it would fit in the A318/736 niche and be desirable due to it's lower operating costs.
It would certainly be a retro design in todays market.
iceberg210 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 29114 times:
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 9): With a GTF, it might find a niche, but I'm not holding my breath
THAT should be the key for these guys. Could the F100NG compete against the C Series, MRJ, RRJ, etc?
Not with the original F100NG, they've been talking about this almost since Fokker went under, so they're going to need a HEAVILY updated F100 to compete. (ie new engines, DEFINITELY GTF or some other advanced engine although GTF would be my preference if I were in Rekkof's shoes...) the older RR is not going to cut it, without a significant rework. Let's remember it's not just about efficiency it's also about maintenance etc, and that's one place where that engine doesn't compete well especially in overhaul intervals compared to it's competitors.
The frame is a great frame, light for what it is, efficient, so really it'll be engines, other aerodynamic improvements etc on the frame, but I guess the point is as much as I really want to see the F100 fly again and be epically successful it's going to need more than just a once over, and I really hope they go with the next generation of engines otherwise this beautiful aircraft will still be dead in the water. As a fan of rear engines, and big T Tails here's wishing the F100 tons of luck!
Quote: "NG Aircraft has been discussing a Brazilian partnership on the Fokker 100NG since June last year. Anapolis's city authorities, it says, are developing a high-technology aeronautical zone in the vicinity of the civil airport.
'[This facility] will be part of our own supply for the Fokker NG,' says Van Eeghen, adding that it will produce subassemblies and components not only for the twinjet but also third-party programmes. 'It's an industrial initiative from the government. It will also work for the global aviation industry'."
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13788 posts, RR: 100
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 28374 times:
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 14): Quoting frigatebird (Reply 9):
Without the latest engines with LEAP-X/GTF technology it's obsolete before it has even flown.
That is what I fear for this project as well.
I am of that opinion too.
However... The BMR725 could be updated with lower fuel burn. Not Leap-X/GTF fuel burn, but 'good enough.'
The issue is the BMR715 didn't have enough cycles between overhauls. It was one factor that limited Boeing 717 sales. The CF-34 has set a new standard for engine maintenance in the RJ market. Business jets simply do not see the cycles that one would put an RJ through.
Quoting kl911 (Reply 7): NG Aircraft, the company behind the new Fokker 70/100NG, is planning to have the aircraft powered by Rolls-Royce BR725s, the same engine type that powers the Gulfstream G650.
Quoting iceberg210 (Reply 13): THAT should be the key for these guys. Could the F100NG compete against the C Series, MRJ, RRJ, etc?
With a slightly modified BMR-725? With a highly modified BMR725 (new turbine materials at a minimum). Not for all missions (of course). But there would be a niche *if* the engines could cut fuel burn a little and the cycles between overhauls were to be dramatically extended.
Quoting Devilfish (Reply 15): So they're viewing this not as a competition to Embraer but a synergistic development?
Until Embraer re-engines...
Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
NASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 26661 times:
Quoting cslusarc (Reply 3): Other than AF/KL who'd order this plane? This market segment looks to be crowded, will there be enough sales opportunities to make a Fokker 100NG viable?
As much as I love to see it fly again, I think its going to be a flop. the F100 was a medium success thanks to AA, KLM TAM and USAir, but the F70 was a bust. All of the American companies dumped theirs years ago. The 717, which would be its competitor at the time was also not all that successful. There simply isn't a market for it with the C Series, E-190 and some of the other jets coming out. Airbus and Boeing can't even sell their smallest aircraft the A318 and 736.
ghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 25189 times:
Brilliant, I'm so happy to see that the 100-seat market isn't going to be lost to wing-mounted engines. She'll look gorgeous with the winglets, and hopefully the "scalloped" engine nacelles. My year'll be made if a US airline announces orders for her.
JoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5530 posts, RR: 31
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 25145 times:
Holy competition, batman...E-jets, CRJ's, Superjets, with older engines, (all of which are candidates for the GE NG34 engine upgrade), and CSeries, MRJ, 737-7 and 319NEO all with the latest tech engines.
It looks like Rekkof will use a new wing, (built by whom?), and an engine specifically designed for long distance, low cycle use on their high cycle RJ...to do battle in a segment that isn't exactly booming at the moment and is as crowded as a tiki bar on dollar margarita night.
I wish them luck but they have some tough sledding ahead.
nipoel123 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 24353 times:
As much as I hope for a Fokker 70/100NG, I don't see it happening. Maybe, if they can offer them at real low prices, that Iran Air and the likes will buy them, to replace their current F100s, but they're too late for the major airlines.
one mile of road leads to nowhere, one mile of runway leads to anywhere