BlackLabel From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 178 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10407 times:
Quoting NZ6: Nope, it's about making it better, seats to suit has been a success with NZ taking all the market growth on the Tasman, if it can do something similar long haul then fantastic. It may not be the same 3 options, it might be way left field but lets wait and see.
I'm not convinced by this (yet). I'm sure if you asked Telecom they'd tell you their broadband and telephone service is a great success because everyone has one. When people have little choice in the matter it's hardly a success. The market growth is interesting and I'll be watching this carefully, although I've seen a lot of NZ frequent flyers moving away...
Quoting cchan: Apart from NZ having more professional crew and AVOD (for those who need it), I think even ET (Ethiopian Airlines) offers a better Y product than NZ. The ET flight to ADD was so much more enjoyable than the NZ AKL-HKG flight I took before. At least, I didn't have to try to pack all my stuff into 1 bag, and I didn't get hungry on the ET flight.
That's the third time I've heard someone compare NZ to ET this week -- and say that ET is better. Why is everyone flying ET lately?!
Quoting cchan (Reply 1): Any chance this would involve a 777 order?
I doubt that it is that kind of review.
My expectations are that we will see most of the following:
1) All 777 aircraft reconfigured to 10 abreast Y and with Spaceseats.
2) Discontinuation of 763 services to HNL and PPT, and codesharing on the local carriers. (Unfortunately for me, at that point I lose the last remaining incentives to fly NZ instead of Virgin Australia and partners).
3) Japan services consolidated as 763 only, with the Seats To Suit model, and loss of Airpoints earning on most economy fares.
4) China services consolidated as 763 only, with the Seats To Suit model, and loss of Airpoints earning on most economy fares.
5) Discontinuation of HKG-LHR.
6) Retention of existing service levels to North America and to LHR via LAX.
7) No additional 777 acquisition.
8) Accelerated retirement of the 747 fleet.
9) No long-haul from or through Australia.
All A320 and 767 services - Seats To Suit
Long-range 777 and 747 services to retain full-service model.
dlnz From New Zealand, joined Jul 2011, 38 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10378 times:
Quoting koruman (Reply 3): 2) Discontinuation of 763 services to HNL and PPT, and codesharing on the local carriers. (Unfortunately for me, at that point I lose the last remaining incentives to fly NZ instead of Virgin Australia and partners).
I'm a big Hawaii proponent just like yourself, and would love to see HA enter the AKL-HNL market. Until then I can't imagine NZ pulling out of the route.
I would love to see DL enter the route with a 763 also, connecting pax in HNL to direct services to LAX, ATL, SLC, SFO etc. Attractive 1 stop option if you ask me.
Quoting koruman (Reply 3): 4) China services consolidated as 763 only, with the Seats To Suit model, and loss of Airpoints earning on most economy fares.
763 would be severely payload handicapped, particularly to PEK, so I don't see this happening. Japan service I agree completely.
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6368 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10208 times:
From the airport today
A6-EDN flew in with the word cup today, sporting a rather nice (read large) livery decal(first special livery for A380..) and got a water spary from the E-R team.
Air New Zealand has got all staff in the new uniform. I think it looks good en masse, albeit a bit upmarket for "seats to suit" style carrier...
Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 2): That's the third time I've heard someone compare NZ to ET this week -- and say that ET is better. Why is everyone flying ET lately?!
It's worth flying them for star alliance points... you as a NZer could become gold faster on ET than NZ ...
I think the 77W should be standardised as our longhaul aircraft until the 787 arrives. Way more cargo revenue than a 744, let alone a 77E. Sure there are extra seats, but those extra seats can be used to develop and grow markets with some decent lead in fares because the cargo revenue should make the flights profitable. As we know = the NZ base fare to many markets is unsustainably high.
Let's face it a 77W could be justified currently on booked loads alone to SFO/HKG/YVR with the current climate (another 4-5 77Ws worth in fact), and once "seats to suit" introduced has enough seats to make it viable for others too. the 77W has been a roaring success for just about every carrier that orders them. VA have had issues more due to not speccing their cargo holds correctly and therefore limiting the outsize cargo they can take..IMO
This leaves the 772s to be reconfigured to meet specifically China/Japan and any other developing markets such as Brazil.
Some of the 763 capacity on AKL-NRT is diverted from AKL-KIX-AKL which is a Thu only 763 until late Oct, with a Mon and Sat AKL-NRT-KIX-AKL 763 or 77E. A 77W was used on an AKL-SYD NZ101 and an AKL-NAN last month.
The previously scheduled AKL-NRT Daily 744 from mid Dec is now changed to a Daily 77E. The 744 has been swapped with the Mon Tue Thu Sat AKL-LAX-AKL 77E until the 5th 77W replaces it on 10th Feb. AKL-KIX is showing as a three weekly 763 from late Oct, four weekly from late Nov and five weekly from mid Dec.
Quoting cchan (Reply 1): Quoting PA515 (Thread starter):
Air NZ Longhaul Review by Christmas
Any chance this would involve a 777 order?
Don't think so. Air NZ's Chief Financial Officer recently said they want some of the 789 order delivered earlier. He said they decided to keep two 744's until the 789 is delivered instead of getting more 77W's. Air NZ had five 789's due in FY2014 and another three by 2016. There is about another 6 month delay to that. They also have eight 789's on option and eight purchase rights. It seems Air NZ does not anticipate additional longhaul capacity before 2014.
Quoting cchan (Reply 6): It has been mentioned that the 772 cabin width would not allow 10 abreast, so they would stay 9 abreast.
Air Austral (UU) has 10 abreast on the 77E. Their 77E has 4 (7 abreast), 34 (9 abreast), 316 (10 abreast) with a cabin width of 5.91m. Their 77W's are 18 (7 abreast), 40 (8 abreast), 384 (10 abreast) with a cabin width of 6.20m.
nascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9589 times:
Hawaiian Airlines 767-300 N593HA currently sitting in Air NZ hanger in AKL looking very nice in Air Canada colours. Aircraft has AC tail number 692. Hopefully they will push it out of hanger to get some nice shots of it.
Also sitting down there is Qantas 747-400ER VH-OEF QF17 SYD-EZE aircraft that diverted to AKL Saturday night. Currently scheduled to depart for EZE @ 1159 this morning.
alangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2101 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9476 times:
Quoting A330NZ (Reply 11): Quoting PA515 (Reply 10):
Air Austral (UU) has 10 abreast on the 77E
Wow... The passengers must feel like sardines!
From the report of a person who used Air Austral to fly between Australia and Mauritius - sardines is an accurate description. Many of the French long haul carriers use high density configurations - if you ride a Corsair 747-400 the seats are very close together.
joelyboy911 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 244 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9434 times:
Quoting alangirvan (Reply 15): From the report of a person who used Air Austral to fly between Australia and Mauritius - sardines is an accurate description. Many of the French long haul carriers use high density configurations - if you ride a Corsair 747-400 the seats are very close together.
The seats on UU are meant to be like sardines. They make no bones about being cheap - Air New Zealand is a different story, and I imagine you'll find NZ's 10 abreast to be significantly more comfortable than the others that have so oft been maligned on this forum. It is certainly streets ahead of AF's - which is the only other I have actually flown on. It's simply not apples with apples to compare UU and NZ.
I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not. It has good service in all classes, with a pretty darn nice J and quite good P. I think they have been wise to know that their routes do not have a market for luxurious Y service and have focussed on optimising cost in Y while improving standards of P and J, and offering the skycouch for Y with a little something extra.
Now if it is true that the sidewalls in the 77E are thicker (substantially, that is) NZ should consider whether the aisles will have enough width to allow a trouble free service. The seats are comfortable enough. If not, I think they would be well-advised to install the same seats and let the width go back into the aisle -IMO it wouldn't be sensible to install different seats on the two 777 models, for consistency reasons.
767er From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9302 times:
Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16):
I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not. It has good service in all classes, with a pretty darn nice J and quite good P
xiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 688 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9285 times:
Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16): I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not. It has good service in all classes, with a pretty darn nice J and quite good P. I think they have been wise to know that their routes do not have a market for luxurious Y service and have focussed on optimising cost in Y while improving standards of P and J, and offering the skycouch for Y with a little something extra.
It is a fact that NZ is losing competitiveness in a few areas. Their FFP is a good example. I think people are entitled to their own opinions and this is what this forum is for. The airline would be too elegant if all it wanted to hear were compliments. I don't think this is who NZ is. Bruce Parton made a few changes to the trans-Tasman products after listening to a lot of complaints on another forum. I know Kiwis can be very understanding and fly their national carrier no matter what but if everyone is like that the airline will lose incentives to improve products and services. No one wants to see that.
aerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2441 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9247 times:
Quoting nascarnut (Reply 14): Hawaiian Airlines 767-300 N593HA currently sitting in Air NZ hanger in AKL looking very nice in Air Canada colours. Aircraft has AC tail number 692. Hopefully they will push it out of hanger to get some nice shots of it.
Yes I saw that today. Is this a regular customer for NZ or is it a one off? Agree the colours looked great - wish they sent a few 77Ls down our way on a regular basis.
Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16): They make no bones about being cheap - Air New Zealand is a different story, and I imagine you'll find NZ's 10 abreast to be significantly more comfortable than the others that have so oft been maligned on this forum.
The 10 abreast thing isn't as big a deal to me as the seat pitch reduction from 34 to 32 inch. I've flown EK's 77Ws more times than I care to remember and have never noticed it to be considerably narrower. Not sure what EK's pitch is, but I'm usually so busy with their amazing entertainment system/food and bev service that it's never been an issue.
That's the thing though - if you take with one hand, you kinda have to give back with the other to keep pax from kicking up a fuss. I think most passengers are reasonably understanding of this - sure you narrow the width of my seat (or not, as they're actually the same as the 744s right?) but you cut my seat pitch and what do I get in return? It certainly isn't cheaper fares.
Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16): I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not.
There, I disagree with you. NZ is a taxpayer owned airline (for how much longer, I know not). It's shareprice is lousy and in the past 15 years has destroyed an enormous amount of shareholder value. It made necessary (well, forced really) changes post Ansett and seemed to be ahead of the curve in the industry. But with Fyfe, the airline has become more about hype, image and PR than substance. And it's losing a million a week on international services.
Seems to me the airline is heading down the route of Qantas, but is about ten years behind. Share of international traffic eroding, little route development, virtual monopoly on domestic routes making it fat and lazy, targeting premium passengers (fine in the good times but lousy business in the rough times) - all at a time when it appears the core markets of North America and Europe are entering into a long-term period of economic malaise. Meanwhile efforts in Asia are either non-existent (south east Asia anyone?) or sputtering (Japan, China).
Then you have the product inconsistencies, a rapidly declining frequent flyer scheme, and NZ's own positioning as a... what... premium airline? LCC? Something inbetween? It all makes for a confusing strategy, not helped by the airline's own propensity for self-promotion, that to date has done nothing to increase shareholder (including taxpayer) wealth - their core responsibility.
And anyway, Jetstar and Qantas get a fair bit of knocks in this forum too.
Quoting xiaotung (Reply 20): I know Kiwis can be very understanding and fly their national carrier no matter what but if everyone is like that the airline will lose incentives to improve products and services. No one wants to see that.
aerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2441 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9237 times:
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 7): Air New Zealand has got all staff in the new uniform. I think it looks good en masse, albeit a bit upmarket for "seats to suit" style carrier...
Yes I saw that. Have to admit that it's not as bad as I was expecting. Though the pattern on the women's blouse is pretty amateurish - fern here, koru there, plane symbol even? From a distance ok, but up close was a bit hokey. Didn't really notice the men's uniform which is probably a good thing.
One thing though - the women's hat - OMG is it awful! it looks like a polar fleece you'd get from the Kathmandu bargain bin. Has this weird wrap around thing that just looks, well, odd. Made me think of the old new uniform as almost... dare I say it... classy?
Overall, it feels like they've gone from 1960s Thunderbirds to 1970s bank teller. Can't wait for the next iteration... 1980s fashion magazine editor? GLOSSSSSSSSS!
koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 3021 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9238 times:
Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16): I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not
Joelyboy, my argument is not that Air NZ needs to be the Bentley of the Skies.
My argument has two main prongs:
1) Good profits can be made in Economy Class if your Economy Class can command high-enough yielding fare levels. That requires the service to meet or exceed certain quality levels.
2) The Business class and Premium Economy passengers of the future are the Economy Class passengers of today. But an airline needs to offer them a good product and good frequent flyer accrual (via FLYING, not shopping) if it wants them to be its frequent Business class passengers in the future.
Unfortunately I think that Air New Zealand is struggling in both those key directions. There is a short-termism and compartmentalisation going on which leads to incorrect conclusions, two examples being:
1) I showed several threads ago that S2S could only deliver greater profits than the old two-class model if average loads on all flights exceeded 96%. This has not happened, but a completely separate development has sidelined Virgin as a major Tasman competitor, and S2S is already being given credit for progress it has not actually been responsible for.
2) Airpoints is being lauded as a success because of the high general population take up, which is because supermarket chains are buying Airpoints. But this doesn't actually work as an airline loyalty tool but rather a supermarket loyalty tool - in terms of economy flying (i.e. 100% of domestic flyers and 75% of international ones) the program no longer incentivises the purchase of Air New Zealand tickets. Again, the airline's management is patting itself on the back for short-term commercial benefits which have nothing to do with airline loyalty.
It is all starting to remind me of Vivendi. For those of you unfamiliar with the story, Vivendi is a 150 year old French water company (General Water Company), whose management wished they were running a media conglomerate rather than a water company. By the late 1990s they were running a media conglomerate with startling incompetence and actually offloaded their water business in July 2000. By 2002 they had a media empire, but were running at a Euro 23.3 billion annual loss.
The directors need to decide whether Airpoints is a supermarket loyalty scheme or a frequent flyer program. And they need to decide whether the airline needs to operate an Economy Class which will retain loyalty among their future premium passengers.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22868 posts, RR: 87 Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9213 times:
Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16): I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not. It has good service in all classes, with a pretty darn nice J and quite good P.
I agree, it gets a bit relentless.
I suppose what concerns me is that so little attention is paid to the negative environment in which the airline has to operate. The Australian economy is okay but NZ is struggling and the US economy is close to a new recession.
On top of which there is the price of oil - and thus fuel - which is causing some havoc, at least for the US airlines. It is a period of very little growth and most US airlines are continuing to cut back capacity quite vigorously.
And while I agree with NZ's liberal aviation polices, they surely don't help the bottom line for Air NZ.
So - I think - it is remarkable that the airline has done as well as it has and can still be considered profitable.
25 gasman: Excellent post Koruman; you've verbalised beautifully some concepts which I had only dimly perceived myself. I'm a case in point. I have been a rabid
26 xiaotung: Agreed 100%. And look at how the loyalty manager describes Airpoints: “To us the success of the Airpoints programme should be measured by how engag
27 gasman: All true - but from where I'm sitting as a PAX, NZ never seem to be struggling to fill their metal. Kudos to them for that, but my point is then that
28 aerokiwi: All of which, apparently, comes from its largely monopolistic domestic routes, though the $1 million loss per week quote may be referring to long hau
29 xiaotung: He was paid AU$16.1 million last year by CBA. I doubt he had the interest to stay. Funny you should mention that, Rob Fyfe was talking as if it was h
30 mariner: Air NZ may be filling the seats - but at what price? As we saw in the three airline domestic debacle when Virgin Blue was flying here, an airline can
31 aerokiwi: Speaking of Norris, has anyone read the article on the Ansett collapse in the latest Australian Aviation? Fascinating stuff, though raised even more q
32 darenw: Still feels like "My" airline to me, and I am more than happy to keep flying with them.
33 darenw: Yes it was very interesting. The article said Ansett was on a downward spiral about 10 years before Air NZ took over
34 kiwiandrew: at the risk of going OT, this shouldn't be news to anyone who was paying attention to AN from around the time of the QF/TN merger onwards.... probabl
35 gasman: Okay. Time to rattle off some some unqualified positives. - With the right crew mix, their enthusiam, attentiveness, and intuition will provide an on
36 mariner: I think the greatest positive is that it is still around. After the extraordinary capitalist games post Roger-nomics followed by the Ansett debacle,
37 TravellerPlus: I note that that Air New Zealand's skytrax customer rating has dropped from 8.1 in January to 6.5 as of today. As a comparison Qantas is sitting on 7.
38 mariner: And speaking of complaints, it was not a good day for Jetstar in the NZ Herald: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=1074
39 cchan: and the Pacific + Japan I have to admit that 80-95% of my Airpoints earnings come from Globalplus credit card earnings + Flybuys conversions. When I
40 gasman: They are REALLY STRONG hairdryers though! Held too close, and they COULD cause hearing damage. I would too. However the people who work for the airli
41 koruman: I have my doubts about the claims that the airline is losing $1 million per week on its long-haul network. There are effectively six different long-ha
42 NZ107: Take a look at this trip report from a trusted trip reporter on this forum: Loisirs Avec Air Austral: Réunion-Sydney-Nouméa (by ronerone Feb 4 2011
43 macilree: Among the thousands of diplomatic cables released by Wikileaks is a cable from the US Embassy in Wellington dated 13 February 2009 about the Boeing ca
44 macilree: The August 2011 issue of the IATA magazine Airlines International has an interview with Rob Fyfe.
45 kiwiandrew: I have to admit that I am not a big fan of Jetstar, I work on the periphery of the industry and we receive huge volumes of complaints from people who
46 mariner: It happens. People change once favoured airlines all the time, as in this thread: Until I was thirty, I would only fly BOAC, but then I grew up. I do
47 gasman: ...... which reminds me of a LHR-JFK-LAX-HNL-NAN trip I once did in one go on a VC-10. 10 abreast on a 77W would have been absolute paradise in compa
48 mariner: Each to their own. I loved the VC-10. My first ever flight on one (JFK-LHR - admittedly up the front) sticks in my mind as one of my memorable flight
49 gasman: I think the "frontness" side of things might be quite relevant, yes. That was my only experience on the VC-10. The outbound trip was on an NZ DC-10 -
50 koruman: Again, we're getting bogged down in arguments about the ideals of 9 versus 10 abreast on the 777 and not the economics. It doesn't matter what is pref
51 mariner: Oh, I agree. But then when I started flying on my own (age nine) there was only first class, at least to the places I was going. I was used to it. I
52 aerokiwi: If yields are stable and the $1 million figure is true, then it says to me that NZ is losing control of its costs. Yeah that was a weird one. The bit
53 BlackLabel: Other way around is how I read it: *she* asked to sit with the corpse. They moved it (him?) to the crew rest area and she asked to sit next to him (i
54 aerokiwi: Yeesh! Imagine being a passenger on that flight!
55 kaiarahi: - goes above and beyond with bereavement pax (personal experience 4 times in last 3 years) On the other side of the ledger: - stone-age web-site - ri
56 gytr31: Reading further down, I love that Helen Clarke mentioned building a Boeing plant over here! with govt concessions it seemed to imply... None the less
57 PA515: I'd like to see him appointed to the Air NZ Board. PA515
58 koruman: My views on this are clear. There are six different long-haul markets, and I would be looking very carefully at the two which consist of little more
59 nascarnut: Air NZ has Hawaiian's 767-300 MX contract. All of HA's 767's have rotated through AKL over the last 3 years. It was good to see one in a diferent col
60 mariner: There's quite an interesting question in the Herald this morning. Obviously, the matter was quite distressing for those sitting nearby, and some were
61 mariner: The problem I have with your long-running war on the China flights is that pretty much every other source says differently: http://www.monstersandcri
62 gasman: But of course airlines themselves are big on loyalty - or they should be. And maybe loyalty is based as much on brand image (like brands of cigarette
63 mariner: No argument about Rico or a couple of the other commercials. I don't like this so-called "cutting edge" approach, but others loved the body paint com
64 gasman: Maybe that's my problem - stuck in the affection and nostalgia phase! The only point I have to make on that - and it's a pretty pathetic one - is tha
65 koruman: Where is the disconnect? I am not arguing that the volumes are not there. I am arguing that the yields are economically unviable. I have used ExpertF
66 cchan: Rico is just a monster that insults the maturity of the passengers and an extreme test of their tolerance.
67 aerorobnz: Most of U and indeed C is upgraded at the airport in the form of paid fare upgrades - once they realise there is a business and Premium economy - whi
68 LAXintl: A couple points: China - the future is with China. Markets like the US and UK are mature and unlikely to grow much especially in the short run in the
69 mariner: Sometimes I am, too. When I came back to NZ to live after forty years away, I was surely looking for the New Zealand of my youth and in many ways I a
70 MillwallSean: or that part of your fixed costs have been increasing rapidly over the last yeara ie fuel. The thing I see with NZ is that they always have the cheap
71 koruman: Two separate issues here. Firstly, "the future is with China" but New Zealand does not have anything other than discount economy package tourists fro
72 LAXintl: As I recall ANZ also has a UK service via HKG. Tha'ts why I said "one of the" UK services. And yes, in the long run I see more upside from a growing
73 gasman: Ah - yes - actually we do, don't we? NZ'ers pay more for just about everything than anywhere else in the world, and there seems to be no answer more
74 mariner: Only because we must. I know very few people who do it from choice. mariner
75 xiaotung: This should never be measured by "per capita". It's true that the average income in China is low but the number of affluent middle class people are g
76 winglets747: The original rationale for 10 abreast on the 77Ws was to more closely match the capacity of the 744, which they were largely obtained to replace.
77 gasman: Somewhat circuitous spin-logic, which is designed to placate those who are irked with 10 abreast rather than actually being based in fact. It was eco
78 koruman: But that rationale is incoherent. If you want to match the capacity and seating density of the 744, buy a 748 or an A380. But understand that if you
79 gasman: Very much agree - although with the introduction of the 77W, those standards have already been diluted. Another no brainer - you would think - but th
80 NZdsgnr: "we're happy to"? might want to ask adidas how that went for them with their jerseys...
81 mariner: Then you and your colleagues must be very well-off or have very generous employers. I'm surely not wondering where my next quid is coming from, but I
82 gasman: I'm sure we all do. But for me and the people I work with, it's usually pick the route, class and airline first, and provided the price is in the bal
83 mariner: I think most people decide where they're going to go first, and probably what route, but - for me - the airline is negotiable, as is the class. I wan
84 darenw: I work with well over 100 people, doctors and nurses, not exactly low income. The first thing at lot of them look for when booking a flight is price.
85 cchan: There is a difference between being in a sardine can for 1 hour, 4 hours, 12 hours and 24 hours though. For long haul flights, comfort weights more t
86 aerokiwi: No one is suggesting that. But air NZ is consistently downgrading its economy service on long haul while rarely being anywhere near the cheapest. the
87 koruman: Air New Zealand's clientele is not "more posh". But it is far more experienced in terms of very long-haul travel than any other airline's customers I
88 mariner: That may have been true once (see "home"above), but I live in the woop-woop and I have numerous Kiwi friends of the middle years who have never been
89 kaiarahi: If you'd ever lived in NZL, you'd know how laughable that generalisation is.
90 koruman: Maybe, but that doesn't really undermine my primary argument, which is that a much larger majority of Pakeha have experience in long-haul travel than
91 mariner: I live here, I can only tell you what I experience, and I don't think my area is unique. The great travelers here are the Indian community, frequentl
92 kaiarahi: I have 13 cousins, most in their late 30s, early 40s. Every one of them has spent time in the U.S. / Europe, most more than once. 9 of them have also
93 LAXintl: What New Zealender's are the sole nationality in the world, that don't like to get value for money, or don't use price as major decision factor in th
94 mariner: Some negatives have been posted here about the financial impact of the RWC in New Zealand and I have to say that I don't care. Even li'l old Whangarei
95 kaiarahi: Not what you said. You said that NZers' priorities are the same as Americans, Europeans and Asians. Believe me, they're not.
96 koruman: Over 95% of tickets for sectors over 6 hours sold ex-Auckland are for fares which include checked baggage, hot meals, IFE, pillows and blankets. Over
97 winglets747: You've created a circle when there doesn't need to be one. Economics and capacity go hand-in-hand. You cannot separate the two. A business rationale
98 koruman: OK, let me put it like this. Let's say that the lowest lead-in economy fare NZ-UK on the market is on Air Asia X with the equivalent of 10 abreast Ec
99 cchan: The downgrades I have seen in recent years are the lower quality (and quantity) of inflight meals, more restrictive baggage policy, cutting the credi
100 koruman: 1. Seating pitch reduced from 34 inches pitch/ 18 inches width to 32 inches pitch/ 17 inches width. 2. Frequent flyer earning for discount economy re
101 xiaotung: If you think about it, they probably don't care as they clearly won't last till the day the next generation flies premium cabin. Would be somebody el