Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Zealand Aviation Thread #101  
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 870 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12341 times:

Welcome to the 101st New Zealand Aviation Thread. In thread #100 New Zealand Aviation Thread #100! we discussed:

  • - Air NZ AKL-HKG-LHR
  • - Rugby World Cup extra flights etc
  • - Snow / Ice disruptions
  • - ZK-OJK returning on lease
  • - Air NZ codeshare possibilities
  • - HLZ runway extension
  • - Air NZ 77W Premium Economy reconfiguration
  • - Air NZ ATR72 replacement
  • - Air NZ 1900D replacement/upgrade
  • - DHL 757's
  • - Air NZ 763 performance
  • - ZK-OAB lightning strike
  • - Possible Air NZ Bond issue
  • - QF ZK-ZQH delivery
  • - True Origin Destination statistics
  • - ZK-NGF to be parted out
  • - Daily CX 744's from 27th Nov
  • - A320NEO
  • - Air NZ Annual Result
  • - Air NZ Longhaul Review by Christmas
  • - 77W 10 abreast / 9 abreast
  • - Rob Fyfe DUD-CHC
  • - Air NZ AKL-NRT 763
  • - Air NZ WLG-AKL bad trip report


[Edited 2011-09-01 04:35:11]

[Edited 2011-09-01 04:38:18]

209 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12147 times:

Quoting PA515 (Thread starter):
Air NZ Longhaul Review by Christmas

Any chance this would involve a 777 order?


User currently offlineBlackLabel From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12111 times:

Quoting NZ6:
Nope, it's about making it better, seats to suit has been a success with NZ taking all the market growth on the Tasman, if it can do something similar long haul then fantastic. It may not be the same 3 options, it might be way left field but lets wait and see.

I'm not convinced by this (yet). I'm sure if you asked Telecom they'd tell you their broadband and telephone service is a great success because everyone has one. When people have little choice in the matter it's hardly a success. The market growth is interesting and I'll be watching this carefully, although I've seen a lot of NZ frequent flyers moving away...

Quoting cchan:
Apart from NZ having more professional crew and AVOD (for those who need it), I think even ET (Ethiopian Airlines) offers a better Y product than NZ. The ET flight to ADD was so much more enjoyable than the NZ AKL-HKG flight I took before. At least, I didn't have to try to pack all my stuff into 1 bag, and I didn't get hungry on the ET flight.

That's the third time I've heard someone compare NZ to ET this week -- and say that ET is better. Why is everyone flying ET lately?!


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12102 times:

Quoting PA515 (Thread starter):
Air NZ Longhaul Review by Christmas
Quoting cchan (Reply 1):
Any chance this would involve a 777 order?

I doubt that it is that kind of review.

My expectations are that we will see most of the following:

1) All 777 aircraft reconfigured to 10 abreast Y and with Spaceseats.
2) Discontinuation of 763 services to HNL and PPT, and codesharing on the local carriers. (Unfortunately for me, at that point I lose the last remaining incentives to fly NZ instead of Virgin Australia and partners).
3) Japan services consolidated as 763 only, with the Seats To Suit model, and loss of Airpoints earning on most economy fares.
4) China services consolidated as 763 only, with the Seats To Suit model, and loss of Airpoints earning on most economy fares.
5) Discontinuation of HKG-LHR.
6) Retention of existing service levels to North America and to LHR via LAX.
7) No additional 777 acquisition.
8) Accelerated retirement of the 747 fleet.
9) No long-haul from or through Australia.

In short:
All A320 and 767 services - Seats To Suit
Long-range 777 and 747 services to retain full-service model.


User currently offlinedlnz From New Zealand, joined Jul 2011, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12082 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 3):
2) Discontinuation of 763 services to HNL and PPT, and codesharing on the local carriers. (Unfortunately for me, at that point I lose the last remaining incentives to fly NZ instead of Virgin Australia and partners).

I'm a big Hawaii proponent just like yourself, and would love to see HA enter the AKL-HNL market. Until then I can't imagine NZ pulling out of the route.

I would love to see DL enter the route with a 763 also, connecting pax in HNL to direct services to LAX, ATL, SLC, SFO etc. Attractive 1 stop option if you ask me.

Quoting koruman (Reply 3):
4) China services consolidated as 763 only, with the Seats To Suit model, and loss of Airpoints earning on most economy fares.

763 would be severely payload handicapped, particularly to PEK, so I don't see this happening. Japan service I agree completely.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12073 times:

Quoting dlnz (Reply 4):
I'm a big Hawaii proponent just like yourself, and would love to see HA enter the AKL-HNL market. Until then I can't imagine NZ pulling out of the route.

I don't think that the airline has managed its HNL route well the last couple of years.

The exchange rate has gone from NZ$1 = US$0.60 to NZ$1 = US$0.85 today.

The number of seats sold from Australia to Honolulu has now trebled in five years. (Many of the AC seats were sold SYD-YVR, not HNL previously).

I would think that AKL-HNL should probably now be a daily route for Air New Zealand. Admittedly possibly with Seats To Suit.

But as long as it remains 2-3 times weekly, the market won't grow and the possibility of HA replacing NZ will remain.


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12023 times:

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 2):
Why is everyone flying ET lately?!

40kg luggage for Y, 50kg luggage for J, and they are cheaper than KQ

Quoting koruman (Reply 3):
1) All 777 aircraft reconfigured to 10 abreast Y and with Spaceseats.

It has been mentioned that the 772 cabin width would not allow 10 abreast, so they would stay 9 abreast.

Quoting koruman (Reply 3):
4) China services consolidated as 763 only, with the Seats To Suit model, and loss of Airpoints earning on most economy fares.

Do the 763 have the range to do AKL-PEK?

Quoting koruman (Reply 3):
8) Accelerated retirement of the 747 fleet.

They should do that, considering most of these aircrafts are sitting on the ground in AKL most of the time.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11912 times:

From the airport today
A6-EDN flew in with the word cup today, sporting a rather nice (read large) livery decal(first special livery for A380..) and got a water spary from the E-R team.

Air New Zealand has got all staff in the new uniform. I think it looks good en masse, albeit a bit upmarket for "seats to suit" style carrier...

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 2):
That's the third time I've heard someone compare NZ to ET this week -- and say that ET is better. Why is everyone flying ET lately?!

It's worth flying them for star alliance points... you as a NZer could become gold faster on ET than NZ ... 

I think the 77W should be standardised as our longhaul aircraft until the 787 arrives. Way more cargo revenue than a 744, let alone a 77E. Sure there are extra seats, but those extra seats can be used to develop and grow markets with some decent lead in fares because the cargo revenue should make the flights profitable. As we know = the NZ base fare to many markets is unsustainably high.

Let's face it a 77W could be justified currently on booked loads alone to SFO/HKG/YVR with the current climate (another 4-5 77Ws worth in fact), and once "seats to suit" introduced has enough seats to make it viable for others too. the 77W has been a roaring success for just about every carrier that orders them. VA have had issues more due to not speccing their cargo holds correctly and therefore limiting the outsize cargo they can take..IMO

This leaves the 772s to be reconfigured to meet specifically China/Japan and any other developing markets such as Brazil.


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11818 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 7):
Air New Zealand has got all staff in the new uniform. I think it looks good en masse, albeit a bit upmarket for "seats to suit" style carrier...

Maybe NZ can make further fuel savings by clothing selected staff in bikini instead of the full uniform?  
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 7):
It's worth flying them for star alliance points... you as a NZer could become gold faster on ET than NZ ... 

ET is not a Star member yet.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 11783 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 8):
ET is not a Star member yet.

it is near enough to it now it will be by the end of the year . Besides LH Miles and More can be earned for ET flights I think.


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 870 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 11741 times:

Quoting PA515 (Thread starter):
- Air NZ AKL-NRT 763

Some of the 763 capacity on AKL-NRT is diverted from AKL-KIX-AKL which is a Thu only 763 until late Oct, with a Mon and Sat AKL-NRT-KIX-AKL 763 or 77E. A 77W was used on an AKL-SYD NZ101 and an AKL-NAN last month.

The previously scheduled AKL-NRT Daily 744 from mid Dec is now changed to a Daily 77E. The 744 has been swapped with the Mon Tue Thu Sat AKL-LAX-AKL 77E until the 5th 77W replaces it on 10th Feb. AKL-KIX is showing as a three weekly 763 from late Oct, four weekly from late Nov and five weekly from mid Dec.

Quoting cchan (Reply 1):
Quoting PA515 (Thread starter):
Air NZ Longhaul Review by Christmas

Any chance this would involve a 777 order?

Don't think so. Air NZ's Chief Financial Officer recently said they want some of the 789 order delivered earlier. He said they decided to keep two 744's until the 789 is delivered instead of getting more 77W's. Air NZ had five 789's due in FY2014 and another three by 2016. There is about another 6 month delay to that. They also have eight 789's on option and eight purchase rights. It seems Air NZ does not anticipate additional longhaul capacity before 2014.

Quoting cchan (Reply 6):
It has been mentioned that the 772 cabin width would not allow 10 abreast, so they would stay 9 abreast.

Air Austral (UU) has 10 abreast on the 77E. Their 77E has 4 (7 abreast), 34 (9 abreast), 316 (10 abreast) with a cabin width of 5.91m. Their 77W's are 18 (7 abreast), 40 (8 abreast), 384 (10 abreast) with a cabin width of 6.20m.

http://www.air-austral.com/en/about-air-austral/fleet.html

PA515


User currently offlineA330NZ From New Zealand, joined Dec 2010, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11491 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 10):
Air Austral (UU) has 10 abreast on the 77E

Wow... The passengers must feel like sardines!


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11454 times:

Quoting A330NZ (Reply 11):
Wow... The passengers must feel like sardines!

I guess if the passengers are used to traveling on African buses, they would feel rather comfortable.


User currently offlineNTLDaz From Australia, joined Aug 2011, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11417 times:

I guess if the passengers are used to traveling on African buses, they would feel rather comfortable.

Reunion is not really what you would call African ( so to speak ). It is a quite cosmopolitan department of France.


User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 276 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 11293 times:

Hawaiian Airlines 767-300 N593HA currently sitting in Air NZ hanger in AKL looking very nice in Air Canada colours. Aircraft has AC tail number 692. Hopefully they will push it out of hanger to get some nice shots of it.
Also sitting down there is Qantas 747-400ER VH-OEF QF17 SYD-EZE aircraft that diverted to AKL Saturday night. Currently scheduled to depart for EZE @ 1159 this morning.


User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11180 times:

Quoting A330NZ (Reply 11):
Quoting PA515 (Reply 10):
Air Austral (UU) has 10 abreast on the 77E

Wow... The passengers must feel like sardines!

From the report of a person who used Air Austral to fly between Australia and Mauritius - sardines is an accurate description. Many of the French long haul carriers use high density configurations - if you ride a Corsair 747-400 the seats are very close together.


User currently offlinejoelyboy911 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 11138 times:

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 15):
From the report of a person who used Air Austral to fly between Australia and Mauritius - sardines is an accurate description. Many of the French long haul carriers use high density configurations - if you ride a Corsair 747-400 the seats are very close together.

The seats on UU are meant to be like sardines. They make no bones about being cheap - Air New Zealand is a different story, and I imagine you'll find NZ's 10 abreast to be significantly more comfortable than the others that have so oft been maligned on this forum. It is certainly streets ahead of AF's - which is the only other I have actually flown on. It's simply not apples with apples to compare UU and NZ.

I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not. It has good service in all classes, with a pretty darn nice J and quite good P. I think they have been wise to know that their routes do not have a market for luxurious Y service and have focussed on optimising cost in Y while improving standards of P and J, and offering the skycouch for Y with a little something extra.

Now if it is true that the sidewalls in the 77E are thicker (substantially, that is) NZ should consider whether the aisles will have enough width to allow a trouble free service. The seats are comfortable enough. If not, I think they would be well-advised to install the same seats and let the width go back into the aisle -IMO it wouldn't be sensible to install different seats on the two 777 models, for consistency reasons.



Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11088 times:

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 14):
Also sitting down there is Qantas 747-400ER VH-OEF QF17 SYD-EZE aircraft that diverted to AKL Saturday night. Currently scheduled to depart for EZE @ 1159 this morning.

for those of you who miss it, there will be an opportunity tomorrow 6th, and 8th due to dropping in for RWC, OEF is scheduled for all flights.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8758 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11060 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 17):
for those of you who miss it, there will be an opportunity tomorrow 6th, and 8th due to dropping in for RWC, OEF is scheduled for all flights.

LAN is also operating extra flights into AKL for the RWC, (both flights will continue onwards to SYD). Departing SCL on September 4th:

LA803 SCL - AKL 00:35 04:45 +1 A-343
LA801 SCL - AKL 23:50 04:00 +2 A-343

Departs SCL on September 8th:
LA803 SCL - AKL 11:00 15:10 +1 A-343
LA801 SCL - AKL 23:50 04:00 +2 A-343


User currently offline767er From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11006 times:

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16):

I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not. It has good service in all classes, with a pretty darn nice J and quite good P

Well said...................



Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10989 times:

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16):
I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not. It has good service in all classes, with a pretty darn nice J and quite good P. I think they have been wise to know that their routes do not have a market for luxurious Y service and have focussed on optimising cost in Y while improving standards of P and J, and offering the skycouch for Y with a little something extra.

It is a fact that NZ is losing competitiveness in a few areas. Their FFP is a good example. I think people are entitled to their own opinions and this is what this forum is for. The airline would be too elegant if all it wanted to hear were compliments. I don't think this is who NZ is. Bruce Parton made a few changes to the trans-Tasman products after listening to a lot of complaints on another forum. I know Kiwis can be very understanding and fly their national carrier no matter what but if everyone is like that the airline will lose incentives to improve products and services. No one wants to see that.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2684 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10951 times:

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 14):
Hawaiian Airlines 767-300 N593HA currently sitting in Air NZ hanger in AKL looking very nice in Air Canada colours. Aircraft has AC tail number 692. Hopefully they will push it out of hanger to get some nice shots of it.

Yes I saw that today. Is this a regular customer for NZ or is it a one off? Agree the colours looked great - wish they sent a few 77Ls down our way on a regular basis.

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16):
They make no bones about being cheap - Air New Zealand is a different story, and I imagine you'll find NZ's 10 abreast to be significantly more comfortable than the others that have so oft been maligned on this forum.

The 10 abreast thing isn't as big a deal to me as the seat pitch reduction from 34 to 32 inch. I've flown EK's 77Ws more times than I care to remember and have never noticed it to be considerably narrower. Not sure what EK's pitch is, but I'm usually so busy with their amazing entertainment system/food and bev service that it's never been an issue.

That's the thing though - if you take with one hand, you kinda have to give back with the other to keep pax from kicking up a fuss. I think most passengers are reasonably understanding of this - sure you narrow the width of my seat (or not, as they're actually the same as the 744s right?) but you cut my seat pitch and what do I get in return? It certainly isn't cheaper fares.

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16):
I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not.

There, I disagree with you. NZ is a taxpayer owned airline (for how much longer, I know not). It's shareprice is lousy and in the past 15 years has destroyed an enormous amount of shareholder value. It made necessary (well, forced really) changes post Ansett and seemed to be ahead of the curve in the industry. But with Fyfe, the airline has become more about hype, image and PR than substance. And it's losing a million a week on international services.

Seems to me the airline is heading down the route of Qantas, but is about ten years behind. Share of international traffic eroding, little route development, virtual monopoly on domestic routes making it fat and lazy, targeting premium passengers (fine in the good times but lousy business in the rough times) - all at a time when it appears the core markets of North America and Europe are entering into a long-term period of economic malaise. Meanwhile efforts in Asia are either non-existent (south east Asia anyone?) or sputtering (Japan, China).

Then you have the product inconsistencies, a rapidly declining frequent flyer scheme, and NZ's own positioning as a... what... premium airline? LCC? Something inbetween? It all makes for a confusing strategy, not helped by the airline's own propensity for self-promotion, that to date has done nothing to increase shareholder (including taxpayer) wealth - their core responsibility.

And anyway, Jetstar and Qantas get a fair bit of knocks in this forum too.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 20):
I know Kiwis can be very understanding and fly their national carrier no matter what but if everyone is like that the airline will lose incentives to improve products and services. No one wants to see that.

Agreed.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2684 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10941 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 7):
Air New Zealand has got all staff in the new uniform. I think it looks good en masse, albeit a bit upmarket for "seats to suit" style carrier...

Yes I saw that. Have to admit that it's not as bad as I was expecting. Though the pattern on the women's blouse is pretty amateurish - fern here, koru there, plane symbol even? From a distance ok, but up close was a bit hokey. Didn't really notice the men's uniform which is probably a good thing.

One thing though - the women's hat - OMG is it awful! it looks like a polar fleece you'd get from the Kathmandu bargain bin. Has this weird wrap around thing that just looks, well, odd. Made me think of the old new uniform as almost... dare I say it... classy?

Overall, it feels like they've gone from 1960s Thunderbirds to 1970s bank teller. Can't wait for the next iteration... 1980s fashion magazine editor? GLOSSSSSSSSS!

Fashion critique over  


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10942 times:

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16):
I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not

Joelyboy, my argument is not that Air NZ needs to be the Bentley of the Skies.

My argument has two main prongs:

1) Good profits can be made in Economy Class if your Economy Class can command high-enough yielding fare levels. That requires the service to meet or exceed certain quality levels.

2) The Business class and Premium Economy passengers of the future are the Economy Class passengers of today. But an airline needs to offer them a good product and good frequent flyer accrual (via FLYING, not shopping) if it wants them to be its frequent Business class passengers in the future.

Unfortunately I think that Air New Zealand is struggling in both those key directions. There is a short-termism and compartmentalisation going on which leads to incorrect conclusions, two examples being:

1) I showed several threads ago that S2S could only deliver greater profits than the old two-class model if average loads on all flights exceeded 96%. This has not happened, but a completely separate development has sidelined Virgin as a major Tasman competitor, and S2S is already being given credit for progress it has not actually been responsible for.

2) Airpoints is being lauded as a success because of the high general population take up, which is because supermarket chains are buying Airpoints. But this doesn't actually work as an airline loyalty tool but rather a supermarket loyalty tool - in terms of economy flying (i.e. 100% of domestic flyers and 75% of international ones) the program no longer incentivises the purchase of Air New Zealand tickets. Again, the airline's management is patting itself on the back for short-term commercial benefits which have nothing to do with airline loyalty.

It is all starting to remind me of Vivendi. For those of you unfamiliar with the story, Vivendi is a 150 year old French water company (General Water Company), whose management wished they were running a media conglomerate rather than a water company. By the late 1990s they were running a media conglomerate with startling incompetence and actually offloaded their water business in July 2000. By 2002 they had a media empire, but were running at a Euro 23.3 billion annual loss.

The directors need to decide whether Airpoints is a supermarket loyalty scheme or a frequent flyer program. And they need to decide whether the airline needs to operate an Economy Class which will retain loyalty among their future premium passengers.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25012 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10917 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 16):
I, for one, am tiring of this thread being constantly bashing NZ, I know we all want it to succeed and live up to our every dream as a global mega carrier with ultra-luxury service in every class but its simply not. It has good service in all classes, with a pretty darn nice J and quite good P.

I agree, it gets a bit relentless.

I suppose what concerns me is that so little attention is paid to the negative environment in which the airline has to operate. The Australian economy is okay but NZ is struggling and the US economy is close to a new recession.

On top of which there is the price of oil - and thus fuel - which is causing some havoc, at least for the US airlines. It is a period of very little growth and most US airlines are continuing to cut back capacity quite vigorously.

And while I agree with NZ's liberal aviation polices, they surely don't help the bottom line for Air NZ.

So - I think - it is remarkable that the airline has done as well as it has and can still be considered profitable.

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 gasman : Excellent post Koruman; you've verbalised beautifully some concepts which I had only dimly perceived myself. I'm a case in point. I have been a rabid
26 xiaotung : Agreed 100%. And look at how the loyalty manager describes Airpoints: “To us the success of the Airpoints programme should be measured by how engag
27 gasman : All true - but from where I'm sitting as a PAX, NZ never seem to be struggling to fill their metal. Kudos to them for that, but my point is then that
28 aerokiwi : All of which, apparently, comes from its largely monopolistic domestic routes, though the $1 million loss per week quote may be referring to long hau
29 xiaotung : He was paid AU$16.1 million last year by CBA. I doubt he had the interest to stay. Funny you should mention that, Rob Fyfe was talking as if it was h
30 mariner : Air NZ may be filling the seats - but at what price? As we saw in the three airline domestic debacle when Virgin Blue was flying here, an airline can
31 aerokiwi : Speaking of Norris, has anyone read the article on the Ansett collapse in the latest Australian Aviation? Fascinating stuff, though raised even more q
32 darenw : Still feels like "My" airline to me, and I am more than happy to keep flying with them.
33 darenw : Yes it was very interesting. The article said Ansett was on a downward spiral about 10 years before Air NZ took over
34 kiwiandrew : at the risk of going OT, this shouldn't be news to anyone who was paying attention to AN from around the time of the QF/TN merger onwards.... probabl
35 Post contains images gasman : Okay. Time to rattle off some some unqualified positives. - With the right crew mix, their enthusiam, attentiveness, and intuition will provide an on
36 Post contains images mariner : I think the greatest positive is that it is still around. After the extraordinary capitalist games post Roger-nomics followed by the Ansett debacle,
37 TravellerPlus : I note that that Air New Zealand's skytrax customer rating has dropped from 8.1 in January to 6.5 as of today. As a comparison Qantas is sitting on 7.
38 Post contains links mariner : And speaking of complaints, it was not a good day for Jetstar in the NZ Herald: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=1074
39 Post contains images cchan : and the Pacific + Japan I have to admit that 80-95% of my Airpoints earnings come from Globalplus credit card earnings + Flybuys conversions. When I
40 gasman : They are REALLY STRONG hairdryers though! Held too close, and they COULD cause hearing damage. I would too. However the people who work for the airli
41 koruman : I have my doubts about the claims that the airline is losing $1 million per week on its long-haul network. There are effectively six different long-ha
42 Post contains links NZ107 : Take a look at this trip report from a trusted trip reporter on this forum: Loisirs Avec Air Austral: Réunion-Sydney-Nouméa (by ronerone Feb 4 2011
43 Post contains links macilree : Among the thousands of diplomatic cables released by Wikileaks is a cable from the US Embassy in Wellington dated 13 February 2009 about the Boeing ca
44 Post contains links macilree : The August 2011 issue of the IATA magazine Airlines International has an interview with Rob Fyfe.
45 kiwiandrew : I have to admit that I am not a big fan of Jetstar, I work on the periphery of the industry and we receive huge volumes of complaints from people who
46 mariner : It happens. People change once favoured airlines all the time, as in this thread: Until I was thirty, I would only fly BOAC, but then I grew up. I do
47 gasman : ...... which reminds me of a LHR-JFK-LAX-HNL-NAN trip I once did in one go on a VC-10. 10 abreast on a 77W would have been absolute paradise in compa
48 Post contains images mariner : Each to their own. I loved the VC-10. My first ever flight on one (JFK-LHR - admittedly up the front) sticks in my mind as one of my memorable flight
49 Post contains images gasman : I think the "frontness" side of things might be quite relevant, yes. That was my only experience on the VC-10. The outbound trip was on an NZ DC-10 -
50 koruman : Again, we're getting bogged down in arguments about the ideals of 9 versus 10 abreast on the 777 and not the economics. It doesn't matter what is pref
51 mariner : Oh, I agree. But then when I started flying on my own (age nine) there was only first class, at least to the places I was going. I was used to it. I
52 aerokiwi : If yields are stable and the $1 million figure is true, then it says to me that NZ is losing control of its costs. Yeah that was a weird one. The bit
53 BlackLabel : Other way around is how I read it: *she* asked to sit with the corpse. They moved it (him?) to the crew rest area and she asked to sit next to him (i
54 aerokiwi : Yeesh! Imagine being a passenger on that flight!
55 Post contains images kaiarahi : - goes above and beyond with bereavement pax (personal experience 4 times in last 3 years) On the other side of the ledger: - stone-age web-site - ri
56 Post contains images gytr31 : Reading further down, I love that Helen Clarke mentioned building a Boeing plant over here! with govt concessions it seemed to imply... None the less
57 PA515 : I'd like to see him appointed to the Air NZ Board. PA515
58 koruman : My views on this are clear. There are six different long-haul markets, and I would be looking very carefully at the two which consist of little more
59 nascarnut : Air NZ has Hawaiian's 767-300 MX contract. All of HA's 767's have rotated through AKL over the last 3 years. It was good to see one in a diferent col
60 Post contains links mariner : There's quite an interesting question in the Herald this morning. Obviously, the matter was quite distressing for those sitting nearby, and some were
61 Post contains links mariner : The problem I have with your long-running war on the China flights is that pretty much every other source says differently: http://www.monstersandcri
62 gasman : But of course airlines themselves are big on loyalty - or they should be. And maybe loyalty is based as much on brand image (like brands of cigarette
63 mariner : No argument about Rico or a couple of the other commercials. I don't like this so-called "cutting edge" approach, but others loved the body paint com
64 gasman : Maybe that's my problem - stuck in the affection and nostalgia phase! The only point I have to make on that - and it's a pretty pathetic one - is tha
65 koruman : Where is the disconnect? I am not arguing that the volumes are not there. I am arguing that the yields are economically unviable. I have used ExpertF
66 cchan : Rico is just a monster that insults the maturity of the passengers and an extreme test of their tolerance.
67 aerorobnz : Most of U and indeed C is upgraded at the airport in the form of paid fare upgrades - once they realise there is a business and Premium economy - whi
68 Post contains links LAXintl : A couple points: China - the future is with China. Markets like the US and UK are mature and unlikely to grow much especially in the short run in the
69 Post contains images mariner : Sometimes I am, too. When I came back to NZ to live after forty years away, I was surely looking for the New Zealand of my youth and in many ways I a
70 MillwallSean : or that part of your fixed costs have been increasing rapidly over the last yeara ie fuel. The thing I see with NZ is that they always have the cheap
71 koruman : Two separate issues here. Firstly, "the future is with China" but New Zealand does not have anything other than discount economy package tourists fro
72 LAXintl : As I recall ANZ also has a UK service via HKG. Tha'ts why I said "one of the" UK services. And yes, in the long run I see more upside from a growing
73 gasman : Ah - yes - actually we do, don't we? NZ'ers pay more for just about everything than anywhere else in the world, and there seems to be no answer more
74 mariner : Only because we must. I know very few people who do it from choice. mariner
75 xiaotung : This should never be measured by "per capita". It's true that the average income in China is low but the number of affluent middle class people are g
76 winglets747 : The original rationale for 10 abreast on the 77Ws was to more closely match the capacity of the 744, which they were largely obtained to replace.
77 gasman : Somewhat circuitous spin-logic, which is designed to placate those who are irked with 10 abreast rather than actually being based in fact. It was eco
78 koruman : But that rationale is incoherent. If you want to match the capacity and seating density of the 744, buy a 748 or an A380. But understand that if you
79 gasman : Very much agree - although with the introduction of the 77W, those standards have already been diluted. Another no brainer - you would think - but th
80 NZdsgnr : "we're happy to"? might want to ask adidas how that went for them with their jerseys...
81 mariner : Then you and your colleagues must be very well-off or have very generous employers. I'm surely not wondering where my next quid is coming from, but I
82 gasman : I'm sure we all do. But for me and the people I work with, it's usually pick the route, class and airline first, and provided the price is in the bal
83 mariner : I think most people decide where they're going to go first, and probably what route, but - for me - the airline is negotiable, as is the class. I wan
84 darenw : I work with well over 100 people, doctors and nurses, not exactly low income. The first thing at lot of them look for when booking a flight is price.
85 cchan : There is a difference between being in a sardine can for 1 hour, 4 hours, 12 hours and 24 hours though. For long haul flights, comfort weights more t
86 aerokiwi : No one is suggesting that. But air NZ is consistently downgrading its economy service on long haul while rarely being anywhere near the cheapest. the
87 koruman : Air New Zealand's clientele is not "more posh". But it is far more experienced in terms of very long-haul travel than any other airline's customers I
88 mariner : That may have been true once (see "home"above), but I live in the woop-woop and I have numerous Kiwi friends of the middle years who have never been
89 Post contains images kaiarahi : If you'd ever lived in NZL, you'd know how laughable that generalisation is.
90 koruman : Maybe, but that doesn't really undermine my primary argument, which is that a much larger majority of Pakeha have experience in long-haul travel than
91 mariner : I live here, I can only tell you what I experience, and I don't think my area is unique. The great travelers here are the Indian community, frequentl
92 kaiarahi : I have 13 cousins, most in their late 30s, early 40s. Every one of them has spent time in the U.S. / Europe, most more than once. 9 of them have also
93 LAXintl : What New Zealender's are the sole nationality in the world, that don't like to get value for money, or don't use price as major decision factor in th
94 Post contains links mariner : Some negatives have been posted here about the financial impact of the RWC in New Zealand and I have to say that I don't care. Even li'l old Whangarei
95 kaiarahi : Not what you said. You said that NZers' priorities are the same as Americans, Europeans and Asians. Believe me, they're not.
96 koruman : Over 95% of tickets for sectors over 6 hours sold ex-Auckland are for fares which include checked baggage, hot meals, IFE, pillows and blankets. Over
97 winglets747 : You've created a circle when there doesn't need to be one. Economics and capacity go hand-in-hand. You cannot separate the two. A business rationale
98 koruman : OK, let me put it like this. Let's say that the lowest lead-in economy fare NZ-UK on the market is on Air Asia X with the equivalent of 10 abreast Ec
99 cchan : The downgrades I have seen in recent years are the lower quality (and quantity) of inflight meals, more restrictive baggage policy, cutting the credi
100 koruman : 1. Seating pitch reduced from 34 inches pitch/ 18 inches width to 32 inches pitch/ 17 inches width. 2. Frequent flyer earning for discount economy re
101 xiaotung : If you think about it, they probably don't care as they clearly won't last till the day the next generation flies premium cabin. Would be somebody el
102 BlackLabel : Yup.
103 gasman : Okay I don't think there's anyone here that's arguing NZ hasn't downgraded services across the board in the last few years. It also seems we're genera
104 Post contains links and images gasman : Here's the competition. Look at the width of that aisle! http://www.airliners.net/photo/Singa...d=1275a92e0dcec3c8e14a77e349ccd862 Compared to this ht
105 A330NZ : On the NZ photo, not only do the aisles look too thin, but people are sticking their feet out in to them. I wonder how many people struggle to get fr
106 NZ107 : That guy on the left was huge. Look how much taller he was than anybody else in the plane. To be honest, he was the only one with feet in the aisle a
107 gasman : Actually hadn't read the Aust Business traveller review before - it pretty much slams Y!
108 NTLDaz : Hi there, Dropping in to the NZ forum. Having flown Delta from Sydney to Los Angeles last year on a 9 abreast 777 one of the things I really liked was
109 cchan : It is probably more of a problem for aisle seat passengers to worry about not getting hit, especially while they are sleeping.
110 Post contains images gasman : I once had a toe munted by a drinks cart while sitting on the aisle - and that was on a 744! Lost a toenail and was limping for the whole stay. In ca
111 Post contains links mariner : There's an interesting article about Air Asia X in Christchurch. I haven't seen it posted here before, but if it has let me know and I'll ask for dele
112 tenthfreedom : From Airline route updates, JetStar Asia is temporarily reducing its AKL-SIN services to four weekly for the period 11/9 to 27/11 (down from six weekl
113 tenthfreedom : As I understand it the flight is to CHC because the Malaysia-NZ bilateral wouldn't allow flights to AKL. If the flight provies to be nonviable into C
114 TravellerPlus : It is only a 2 week reduction. I would speculate that reduction is more likely to be related to maintainence needs rather than a route issue. Jetstar
115 gasman : Does anybody know why NZ's flights to SYD don't depart later than 1730? It's basically impossible to do a full days work in Auckland before flying out
116 nzstevenc : I lurk far too much on this forum and ought to post a lot more. This point resonates with me a great deal. I moved from NZ to the UK 7 years ago and
117 ZKSUJ : SYD is not a 24 hour airport. I think the curfew is 2230 local so all arrivals and departures must stop by then
118 koruman : You sound like the mirror image of me a decade and a half ago. Air NZ won my loyalty (which has continued through to now, where my family and I spend
119 gemuser : 2300 local, 2230 is usually what most airlines schedule their last flight for. Gemuser
120 deconz : But with a 2 hour time change a flight departing AKL at say 1930 would arrive SYD in plenty of time for the curfew at around 2100 local.
121 NZdsgnr : maybe also have to factor in that the aircraft usually returns back to auckland afterwards, it usually gets here close to midnight
122 NZ107 : Except for the last flight of the day which overnights in SYD to act as the early morning flight out of SYD.
123 haggis73 : NZ707 arrives in SYD at 1900, overnights & returns the next morning as NZ700, 0700 Dep. The only thing that I can think of, is that it's a crew r
124 gasman : Whatever the reason is, it's a hassle. I have an 0800 start in Sydney (supposedly) next week - instead of flying out after work the night before, I'm
125 cchan : What about this option? LA801/QF322 AKL SYD 0530 0710
126 gasman : Thanks - yeah, would've done, but I changed my flight from a previously cancelled NZ one, so had to stick with NZ.
127 aotearoa : "Isn't this why they've gone for the cheap and nasty vinyl seats - ease of cleaning?" (quote from Aerokiwi in thread 100) Careful Aerokiwi; How dare y
128 ZKEOJ : I don't know who you have met, but I have met plenty of Pakeha who haven't even been on the South/North Island (depending on which island they are li
129 koruman : Are they pertinent to a discussion of the habits of New Zealand long-haul travellers though? Me too - I wouldn't stay away. Sad that the tournament i
130 gasman : Well, he was making the point that not every NZ European makes a beeline to the UK to work in a pub in Clapham as soon as they turn 20. Even when I w
131 KiwiRob : Unlike football rugby is a tough physical sport, players can't play every second day, the injury toll would be horrific.
132 aerokiwi : My mistake. I loved the brown leather seats when the A320s were first delivered back in the 2000s. But these ones just look and feel so cheap and, fr
133 aotearoa : I also loved the new interiors in 2003, however by 2010 they had really started to date. They also marked very easily with ballpoint pen. By the time
134 Post contains links zkojh : QF in the news again; ''Qantas flight turns back to Melbourne '' A Qantas flight to New Zealand had to turn back to Melbourne because of a problem wit
135 Post contains links timb777 : For those interested, I found this Air New Zealand 1987 ad advertising pacific class domestically, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYyulxen7iU&feat
136 tenthfreedom : $22 aint what it used to be of course. For another $15 on JQ these days you get what, priority boarding and a few QF frequent flyer points? I do reme
137 Unclekoru : I also remember eating hot meals between DUD and CHC on the Ansett 146's! It was always a little ambitious on a sector of that length. Was thinking a
138 cchan : The food offering for Works and Works Deluxe seems the same as the short haul catering just before this new pricing system was introduced. The differ
139 aerokiwi : I guess it's just a preference thing. I'm s fabric kinda guy, and just find it more comforting. The modern, airy feel strikes me as cold, indiffernet
140 NZ107 : Food plus movies and also a seat choice (assuming you aren't a Koru or G/GE - some people value their movies so say $7 for a movie... And others woul
141 Kaiarahi : Plain food?
142 cchan : Movies and seat choices cost the airline next to nothing extra. The cost of providing 1 passenger with access to movies is the same as providing the
143 nzrich : Yes but when you add in drinks especially alcohol it becomes much better value . A couple of those bottles of wine would be $20 in a restaurant so $3
144 tenthfreedom : I wonder how many people purchasing works-deluxe fares already have lounge access. Most I would imagine.
145 aerokiwi : I'd assume the cost to the airline to be pretty marginal too (the IFE boxes are a sunk cost, wear and tear is minimal), which raises the contradictio
146 NASCARNUT : Couple of rare visitors in AKL at the moment. 2 Gulfstream G-V's OE-IVY ZS-AMP Anyone know any further info on them
147 cchan : Well, it is sad that good value for your money relies upon one's liver health. The majority of passengers unfortunately don't drink enough to make th
148 mariner : I don't see that Seats to Suite is much different from (and may be better than) Air Canada's a la carte pricing (three economy levels), and that was
149 DavidByrne : Where is there anything in the manual that says that airlines have to charge pax in any particular way for the services they receive? NZ has chosen a
150 darenw : Totally agree, well said
151 gasman : I actually agree with your post - except the sentiments expressed in the quotes above. As much as we would like to pretend otherwise, our opinions po
152 aerokiwi : I don't think anyone is suggesting there is only one way to charge. The problem/frustration is that they've adopted so many different models for so m
153 darenw : I will be flying NZ on my next trip to Europe. I like to support New Zealand Companies. As any true Kiwi would
154 mariner : I didn't get that from what he wrote. Since I don't suppose you did either (although I could be wrong) I assume it was heavy sarcasm, and I don't see
155 xiaotung : Hold the phone please. If all Kiwis are supporting NZ no matter what then NZ will have no incentives to improve products and services and remain comp
156 darenw : I don't think everyone living in NZ is a Kiwi. I guess it depends where your loyalties lye. If I have a choice between a NZ product and a foreign pro
157 767er : There are lots of Aussies that will only fly NZ internationally, as QF can be sjust dreadful at times.
158 xiaotung : Even if the New Zealand product is lousy and expensive compared to a foreign one? I would also argue how do you consider yourself a Kiwi if you don't
159 koruman : There are lots of positives about the Air NZ long-haul network. Wonderful staff, great fleet choices (777 family and 767) and a great network, althoug
160 NZ2 : Crikey, strange people you must meet, I strugle to think of anyone who has not done long haul to the UK, even my stuck in his ways, 50 year old mate
161 767er : What is even worse is buying a J return to LAX and being stuck in Works on an A320...not even Works Deluxe. When i rung the CC to grizzle they said i
162 aerorobnz : I just flew VA BNE-LAX a couple of days ago and the flight was full, certainly they are good enough to want to fly again - especially in light of the
163 Post contains images TheCommodore : Not surprised in the least. NZ's and Aussies are renowned worldwide for their frequent travel overseas,compared with other nationalities. Did Ethihad
164 cchan : No, but consumers do think about what they pay and what service/product they receive. In this case, I am not convinced that The Works is good value f
165 KiwiRob : Have any of the 777-200's been upgraded to the 77W interior?
166 xiaotung : They will review the strategies when they see their most frequent flyers change behaviours. Sadly this has not happened and NZ appears to be happy wi
167 aerokiwi : I was arguing that, especially because the public is the majority owner in NZ, we have every right/the responsibility to hold the airline to account.
168 darenw : I do live here, have lived in Auckland all my life, and yes I would buy a NZ product over a foreign one even if it is more expensive. I don't agree w
169 cchan : Not that I am aware of. QF Frequent Flyer ANZ Visa cards. This seems to be more generous in mileage awards than those which award Airpoints, if you t
170 PA515 : No. Two 77E's are due to be completed in FY 2012 and the other six in FY 2013. Narrowing that down, the Air NZ schedule has all eight 77E's in servic
171 Post contains links mariner : I don't follow the NZ market but I do monitor, closely, daily, the US airline stocks and most of them are in the dunny. Even the two "golden" stocks
172 aerokiwi : Possibly but my views on it have tempered over time. What I do firmly believe in is holding CEOs and their Boards to account when public monies are i
173 xiaotung : I thought at one point ANZ had stopped issuing this card. That's quite a statement. So I guess you won't use Vodafone (nor 2 Degrees) in New Zealand
174 mariner : I agree. I agree. But this also the tyranny of the small population, and the available talent pool. Although I doubt you'd want to know my opinion of
175 cchan : According to ANZ bank's website, the QF Visa card is still available.
176 NZ1 : At this stage, no aircraft will be upgraded. Big review going on at present in regards to longhaul, including the feasibility of upgrading the 777-20
177 timb777 : Do you think we could see the 77E take on the HNL route before the 787 Arrives? It's a route that I could see Y+ doing quite well on with affluent le
178 aflyingkiwi : Another option could be having CA replace NZ on the China routes (maybe just PEK as that's CA's main hub and it's apparently more low-yielding than P
179 cchan : That would be rather unlikely to happen for 3 reasons: 1) NZ is unlikely to obtain rights to fly between HKG and China. This is a market tightly cont
180 xiaotung : Obtaining these rights is no chance at all. On HKG-PVG (or SHA) route, not even CA can obtain rights as their main hub is PEK. It's a broken link sin
181 joelyboy911 : Could NZ better serve China, even Japan, with a subfleet of less premium 77E? It was said that on the PEK and PVG services, J is filled by paid upgrad
182 Zkpilot : Would still make sense to have a later flight surely? If it was a crewing issue then simply pax (or overnight them also) the last flight crew home an
183 gasman : Well they do of course, on the 763. I deliberately seek out the 763 anyway, because I love it's Y cabin, and the J cabin, while not long-haul standar
184 Zkpilot : Yeah I was meaning for their A320/Zeal fleet... Even if it was just 2 rows of 2-2 (take out 2 or 3 rows of 3), it would allow NZ to recapture some of
185 cchan : But wouldn't it be a bit late now? After years of not offering J class, many former NZ's J customers would have become customers of competitors or go
186 DavidByrne : I use one myself regularly and have enjoyed many flights to and from Australia over the years, courtesy of the scheme.
187 Unclekoru : Personally, I'm not sure I'd use the term "ripped off", it just doesn't encourage me to book works or works deluxe again. It is currently close to a
188 Post contains images gasman : Severely pissed. Looking forward to a nice J class trip on NZ 102 SYD-AKL today, only to check in and find it's been downgraded from a 763 to an A320
189 cchan : Sometimes, I think it would be difficult to convince customers that it is not a rip off when what they get has fallen behind their expectations by a
190 Post contains images gasman : And now the little fcuker is late.......
191 Post contains images ZKSUJ : They should throw you guys on a 744 and upgrade everyone as a gesture of good will
192 cchan : Considering that the flight number is NZ102 (not 7XX series), this is probably a sub due to a 763 being available.
193 NZ107 : You're unlucky you weren't flying it last week. There was a 744 on NZ101/102 on Mon or Tues..
194 NZ1 : ZK-NCL assigned to your flight, but was hit by lightning last night, resulting in the need for some reasonable repairs. An A320 as a replacement was
195 gasman : Well, that's reasonable.Definitely better than "loadings were light, so we changed to a smaller aircraft", which was what I was suspecting. I certain
196 Post contains links macilree : Av Week article claiming to know the 10 target countries for future air services negotiations with comments from Auckland Airport. I would love to kno
197 DavidByrne : Thanks, John, always appreciate the steer that you can give us to sources that are worth a serious look.
198 gasman : Uruguay and Colombia?? WTF??[Edited 2011-09-12 02:35:12]
199 Post contains images ZKNCL : Oh No! ZK-NCL is damaged. I am disappointed in this situation Is it me or have a lot of NZ aircraft been damaged by lightning recently? Just like how
200 Kaiarahi : How so (WTF)?
201 Post contains links mariner : I doubt they are highest on the list and I doubt anyone is anticipating service between New Zealand and, say, Uruguay in the foreseeable future - or
202 KiwiRob : Hi thanks for the info, I'm flying back to NZ on the 20th October via Hong Kong, so I guess it will be a 777-200.
203 Kaiarahi : That's why I questioned 'WTF'. Canada has negotiated Blue Skies agreements with a bunch of Central/South American countries to recognize trade and in
204 koruman : My family and I would be the only passengers on an Auckland-Montevideo service. Now that Uruguay has resumed its rightful position as a top 3 global s
205 Post contains images mariner : So you already knew the answer to your own question. Sorry, no. My Uruguayan friends here in Whangarei - and there are a surprising, if still small,
206 Post contains links A330NZ : Another award for CHC http://www.christchurchairport.co.nz...wins-award-for-scenery-experience/
207 Post contains links gasman : Go CHC! Certainly an awesome new facility. On a completely unrelated note, I was delighted to see this DC-10 clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDi
208 Zkpilot : Great clip! Not very often do we get to see commercial jets doing touch and go's!
209 Post contains links cchan : Please continue the discussion in New Zealand Aviation Thread #102
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
City Of Smiles - Caribbean Aviation Thread 90 posted Sun Aug 21 2011 20:58:49 by BW424
Australian Aviation Thread #53 posted Sat Aug 20 2011 04:27:29 by TN486
New Zealand Aviation Thread #100! posted Sun Aug 14 2011 23:51:27 by 777ER
Floridian Aviation Thread #3 posted Wed Aug 10 2011 18:26:46 by jonathanxxxx
Australian Aviation Thread #52 posted Sat Aug 6 2011 03:47:12 by TN486
Mexican Aviation Thread 9 posted Sun Jul 24 2011 10:48:25 by LipeGIG
Central American Aviation Thread. Part 41 posted Thu Jul 14 2011 18:30:32 by SJOtoLIR
Indian Aviation Thread: Part 94 posted Mon Jul 11 2011 22:05:30 by LAXDESI
New Swiss Aviation Thread No. 27 posted Sat Jul 2 2011 06:24:43 by ZRH
New Zealand Aviation Thread #90 posted Tue Jan 11 2011 18:00:17 by PA515