simairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 813 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 9913 times:
Quoting carpethead (Reply 2): Didn't see this coming. When was the last time NW/DL had their own flight to FUK? Around 2000 with MD-11 to PDX?
Correct. Northwest had previously served Fukuoka from Honolulu (early to mid-90s) and Guam (early 90s)
Cessna172RG From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 744 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9381 times:
YES YES YES this is great news, at least for me--I am so excited about this!!!
smoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1224 posts, RR: 12 Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8940 times:
Quoting delimit (Reply 7): Didn't JL cut a huge chunk of its Hawaiian service as part of the restructure?
Yes at one point they flew to Sapparo, Fukuoka, Niigata, Hirishima, and Sendai
delimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1432 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8907 times:
Quoting ktachiya (Reply 9): I wonder how they intend to control the yields.
When JL operated this flight, they were losing money with an average of a 95% load.
I can't see things dramatically improving since now and then.
I'm guessing Delta's costs are far better than JL's.
Quoting airbazar (Reply 10): Maybe but they still have 6 daily flights between Japan and HNL: 3x NRT, HND, NGO, and KIX.
How does that compare to Delta? DL is adding a fourth destination in Japan from HNL, but I don't know the various frequencies and planes involved. I'm guessing with JL's pulldown they are probably pretty close.
Like those photos you posted, my photo is also somewhat out of date as it was taken earlier this year and doesn't really tell you much. (Except that Hawaii has rainbows! )
Yes, JAL have since added more seats since their restructuring (B772 on certain flights/HND), but I personally think DL holds a comparable or maybe even greater chunk of the Japan-Hawaii market. We'll see what happens once DL's FUK service begins.
777ord From United States of America, joined May 2010, 349 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7859 times:
That's excellent news! Having been a resident of Kyushu for 2 years recently, and ALWAYS having to go to HND-NRT to get a US flight (except the rare KIX connection) this is great news!!!
jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2901 posts, RR: 28 Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7325 times:
Quoting delimit (Reply 12): I'm guessing Delta's costs are far better than JL's.
cslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 811 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6187 times:
It is routes like this that DL needs a "beach market" configuration for its 767-300ER (unless there are any still in a domestic configuration). I think a 767-300ER with configuration of either 18 J (existing Business Elite seats)/ 24 W (4 rows of 2-2-2 seating at 44 in pitch/31 Y+/143 Y or 18 J/67 Y+/143 Y. I think a beach market configuration like my two examples would increase revenue as DL could sell more seats and have less Business Elite seats empty (or filled with upgrades).
jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7335 posts, RR: 52 Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5436 times:
Quoting cslusarc (Reply 16): It is routes like this that DL needs a "beach market" configuration for its 767-300ER (unless there are any still in a domestic configuration). I think a 767-300ER with configuration of either 18 J (existing Business Elite seats)/ 24 W (4 rows of 2-2-2 seating at 44 in pitch/31 Y+/143 Y or 18 J/67 Y+/143 Y. I think a beach market configuration like my two examples would increase revenue as DL could sell more seats and have less Business Elite seats empty (or filled with upgrades).
Which makes me think the 76P and/or 76Q configured 763's would make sense on the Beach Market, but would those aircraft have the range and payload to without weight restrictions. Configuring the 76ER aircraft any more than they presently are would defeat the purpose of us trying to streamline the configs of our 767 fleet
cslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 811 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5321 times:
BTW what are the differences between the 76P and 76Q fleets? They are the domestic configured fleets. What are their ranges? Are both the 76P and 76Q ETOPS rated?
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6515 posts, RR: 11 Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4547 times:
Quoting cslusarc (Reply 18): BTW what are the differences between the 76P and 76Q fleets? They are the domestic configured fleets. What are their ranges? Are both the 76P and 76Q ETOPS rated?
76P:
Ships 1401-1404
Domestic config., non ERs. They are ETOPS 180 rated and have the big PWs hanging under the wings. These are the ones used to Hawaii at current.
76Q:
Ships 121, 124-139
Domestic config., non ERs. Not ETOPS rated and have the CF6s.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3597 posts, RR: 21 Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3750 times:
I have one word for this; Finally!
We have been waiting for this and so has FUK. I think this is the first step to more West Coast - secondary city Japan.
If this is successful seasonal, maybe it could go year-round. And if that works, maybe they will connect FUK to LAX like it used to be. Then maybe we will see seasonal CTS-HNL and its build up.
The 767 opened up more of Europe to North America. Finally it is helping to open North America to Japan. The 787 will only help more starting with NRT-BOS.
The ultimate question is will DL open a FUK-NRT connecter route to bring FUK into the full network.
[Edited 2011-09-02 22:43:28]
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
cslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 811 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3579 times:
Quoting centrair (Reply 20): maybe they will connect FUK to LAX like it used to be
I think that SEA-FUK is more likely as AS and DL offer a whole bunch of connections at SEA. SEA would also reduce backracking vs LAX for most Americans outside of California.
SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2588 posts, RR: 31 Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3411 times:
A very interesting seasonal route addition that has probably taken us all by surprise. Then again, DL seems ready and willing to take much greater risks than its (U.S.) peers...
Is there some sort of subsidy or revenue arrangement in play here? I realize that DL has been steadily growing its Hawaii-Japan presence with the addition of NGO and now FUK, but NGO has had consistent service to HNL. FUK has not. If a Japanese airline can't pull it off (yes, I realize JL had its financial issues, but there's always NH to fill the void - the home country airlines have a huge leg up with the finicky local Japanese market), I would be shocked if a U.S. airline could...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2901 posts, RR: 28 Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3226 times:
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 22): Is there some sort of subsidy or revenue arrangement in play here? I realize that DL has been steadily growing its Hawaii-Japan presence with the addition of NGO and now FUK, but NGO has had consistent service to HNL. FUK has not. If a Japanese airline can't pull it off (yes, I realize JL had its financial issues, but there's always NH to fill the void - the home country airlines have a huge leg up with the finicky local Japanese market), I would be shocked if a U.S. airline could...
The Japan-Hawaii market has been very strong for a couple of years and gotten better lately due to the strong Yen. JAL's shrinking presence has helped other carriers, particularly DL, HA and even CI to expand capacity profitably. Don't view this as a "U.S." airline entering a "foreign" market. Delta's (through NW) historic presence in the Japan-Hawaii market is nearly as strong as JAL's. The market is driven by tour operators that Delta has strong relationships with. Given the strength of the other Japan-U.S. markets, the existing size of the FUK-HNL market and the lack of competition on this route, I think this is one of the most promising new routes Delta has added over the past new years.
I'm sure it is a little disappointing to HA as I suspect they has their eyes on FUK for their mid-term network plan.
azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3555 posts, RR: 30 Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2585 times:
Why is this such a surprise? NWA operated HNL-FUK as well as HNL-NGO pre merger. NWA brought the Pac network to the merger. DL RE-starting a slew of previously operated Pac routes by NWA (SEA-KIX, DTW-PEK, PVG, Seoul) and starting new ones, is a logical and wise move. The economics, fleet and feed have all changed the dynamic of the entire network.
Interesting facts: NWA started operating the NGO route on behalf of America West after their odd and failed foray into Asia tanked. NWA operated the FUK route on behalf of Hawaiian. Both evolved into full fledged NWA routes. Now they've come full circle and are being operated again. Interesting that HA has their sights on FUK once again.
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