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Rumor: FedEx To Decide MD Replacement Soon.  
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28558 times:
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Looking at 80-120 frames including options. Shareholders meeting the 26th. I think it'll announce that Monday or by end of week. There is a lot being considered for the replacement currently. I could list 20 bullets for the order. Boeing is in the lead with the 764 but the A330 is also being considered. It's a good time to buy.


  

131 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28549 times:

If you could list 20 bullets, why didn't you?

Kthxbai.

NS


User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 901 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28562 times:

My money is on the B764 since they are very very very happy with the B772F. Wonder why not just buy more B772F's

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28531 times:

I think we're all very surprised at your wager. I had no idea you liked Boeing airframes.

The 777 is too large, heavy, and expensive to replace the MD-10. A 764 or A330 are much closer in size and heft.

NS


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6646 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28512 times:

Just as Boeing developed the 764ER to suit the L-1011 and DC-10 replacement needs for DL and CO, perhaps Boeing could also develop the 764ERF to suit FedEx's DC-10 replacement needs. FedEx doesn't have any real need for the A330's additional range, and considering that the passenger 764ER already has more total cargo capacity than the passenger DC-10, I presume a 764ERF would be sufficiennt as a DC-10 replacement for FedEx.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28506 times:
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Quoting gigneil (Reply 1):
If you could list 20 bullets, why didn't you?

It's more fun to text them to you on your phone.

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 2):
Wonder why not just buy more B772F's

They want a MD-10-30 replacement (764).


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28501 times:

Quoting fxramper (Reply 5):
It's more fun to text them to you on your phone.

You'd have to take a break from the photo montage.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):

Just as Boeing developed the 764ER to suit the L-1011 and DC-10 replacement needs for DL and CO, perhaps Boeing could also develop the 764ERF to suit FedEx's DC-10 replacement needs.

I am going to say something I will regret:

I agree with you.

NS


User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 901 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28502 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 3):
The 777 is too large, heavy, and expensive to replace the MD-10. A 764 or A330 are much closer in size and heft.

Sure, but they basically run 2 MD-10's on 70% of the routes, couldn't they just run 1 777? I guess it also comes down to scheduling of packets and connections.

Oh. you would be very surprised to learn that my all time favorite airliner is the A330  

[Edited 2011-09-03 19:00:45]

[Edited 2011-09-03 19:21:53]

User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28446 times:
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Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
perhaps Boeing could also develop the 764ERF to suit FedEx's DC-10 replacement needs

  

Boeing and IS&S cockpits are being looked at and I heard Fred wanted the 787 buttons up front. The lobbyists are hard at work.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 6):
You'd have to take a break from the photo montage.

I'm glad that 3gS got broken or replaced.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28439 times:

I am very very surprised.

They run more than 2 MD-10s on some is my guess... but I'm stealing fxramper's thunder by guessing when he knows for sure.

My guess also is that the opportunity cost of the 767 is much much much much lower.


That being said, the A330 will also make a great freighter and is available today. A 767-400F isn't, they'll have to develop either a new type at Boeing or an STC for a conversion. That takes time and money.

Oh, look I just got a text that says "they want a 787 cockpit in the 767 but for it to be type rated with the 757". I don't recognize the number its from, tho.

NS


User currently offlineCargoLex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28423 times:

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 7):

Sure, but they basically run 2 MD-10's on 70% of the routes, couldn't they just run 1 777?

They're not used for the same things.

With a fleet as large as FedEx's, each type has a specific kind of job. The 772LRF is a great aircraft and just about all of the people who've bought it love it, but it's too much plane for the MD-10 routes, and therefore you wouldn't be using it as efficiently.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 1):
If you could list 20 bullets, why didn't you?

He might not be at liberty to discuss all of them.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28389 times:

Inside joke, Cargolex.

NS


User currently offlineCargoLex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28296 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):
Inside joke, Cargolex.

Figured when I saw his second post, but I'd already pulled the trigger.  


User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 901 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28298 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):
My guess also is that the opportunity cost of the 767 is much much much much lower. That being said, the A330 will also make a great freighter and is available today

Wow, acctually I am agreeing with you. Although it would have been nice to see more 777 in FedEx fleet. I know the A330F is avail today, but didn't Boeing need the 764ERF to keep the 767 line busy until the tanker project gets onder way? I smell a very sweet deal for FedEx.

BTW, you might know, who in the world uses A330F's? I can't remember ever seeing one or mention of one.

[Edited 2011-09-03 19:16:52]

User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28284 times:
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Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):
That being said, the A330 will also make a great freighter and is available today. A 767-400F isn't, they'll have to develop either a new type at Boeing or an STC for a conversion. That takes time and money.

The md frames from 1968 can hold out a few more years.


User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 901 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28285 times:

Quoting fxramper (Reply 14):
The md frames from 1968 can hold out a few more years.

I am sure FedEx mechanics have plenty of duct tape... Just kidding...


User currently offlineCargoLex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28233 times:

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 13):


BTW, you might know, who in the world uses A330F's? I can't remember ever seeing one or mention of one.

Hong Kong Airlines/HNA, Turkish, and Etihad are using them right now. Malaysian/MASKargo is about to take its first - it's still at Toulouse. Turkey's MNG has some orders and will almost certainly make them work. The majority of orders were from lessors, the largest of which will be converting some orders to pax A330s.


User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28233 times:
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Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 15):
I am sure FedEx mechanics have plenty of duct tape... Just kidding...

It's 3M 600mph speed tape and it's saved an MD or two from going out of service.   


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28230 times:

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 13):
Wow, acctually I am agreeing with you.

Don't hurt yourself.

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 13):
Although it would have been nice to see more 777 in FedEx fleet.

They have 14 of 30 ordered and 15 options. I think you'll see some more.

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 13):
BTW, you might know, who in the world uses A330F's? I can't remember ever seeing one or mention of one.

I sure do. Turkish, Etihad, and Flyington. Flyington is iffy however, I'm not even sure what their current business state is.

I was actually going to post something about upcoming orders for the frame, but I think the freighter market is in bit of a slump. Fedex's order will take advantage of that slump for pricing power.

NS


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15831 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28213 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 9):
A 767-400F isn't, they'll have to develop either a new type at Boeing or an STC for a conversion. That takes time and money.

For 80-120 frames it will have to be a new type since there aren't that many 767-400ERs made and nobody seems interesting in selling them anytime soon. I imagine that for Boeing this would be a low cost offshoot of the tanker and existing 767 and 777 freighter programs.

I'd have to guess that Boeing is going to cut them a very nice price, since on paper the A330F would seem to be a better option. The 767 wouldn't even have much of a weight advantage on it, if at all.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineCargoLex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28176 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 18):
Flyington. Flyington is iffy however, I'm not even sure what their current business state is.

Flyington is all over. And more in the category of "never was" rather than "also ran."


User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 901 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28146 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
I'd have to guess that Boeing is going to cut them a very nice price, since on paper the A330F would seem to be a better option. The 767 wouldn't even have much of a weight advantage on it, if at all.

You are right, except for a few things. Boeing pretty much needs the order to keep the 767 line busy until the tankers start rolling through. Don't think it would be too difficult to convert to B764ERF from a design standpoint and FedEx does not need the extra range and weight of the A330. In other words, I am sure Airbus will try to offer a good deal, but Boeing I think is has a little more reasoning to do so.

Also, doesn't the B764's have cockpit comonality with the 777's and can share the same crew?

For FedEx, I think both the A330F and the B764F would work well.

[Edited 2011-09-03 19:31:38]

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28134 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
For 80-120 frames it will have to be a new type since there aren't that many 767-400ERs made and nobody seems interesting in selling them anytime soon.

They could approve an STC and then deliver green airplanes to a third party. Like the A320 P2F, and ultimately how the A300F was built - new green passenger airplanes were delivered to EADS Dresden.

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 21):
Boeing pretty much needs the order to keep the 767 line busy until the tankers start rolling through.

I think Boeing will throw airplanes at the problem. Which is the right thing for them to do.

NS


User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 28113 times:

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 13):
BTW, you might know, who in the world uses A330F's? I can't remember ever seeing one or mention of one

Check those out.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/MASka...d=b52486d27cd322697b3e768915039435

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Turki...d=b52486d27cd322697b3e768915039435

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Hong-...d=b52486d27cd322697b3e768915039435



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlineCargoLex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 28033 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 22):

They could approve an STC and then deliver green airplanes to a third party. Like the A320 P2F, and ultimately how the A300F was built - new green passenger airplanes were delivered to EADS Dresden.

This is not exactly the case. The new-build A306F's were just that, built as freighters - no conversions. A300 B4's were conversions, and there have been many conversions by EADS on pax A306's (indeed, these conversions are still going on - some just announced last week), but not the new-build A300-600F's.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © OlivierG
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Georg Noack



On the left is a new build, on the right is an EADS conversion.

The A320P2F program was to be a conversion of used aircraft, not of new-build narrow bodies, because nobody would buy a new build narrow body freighter. Similarly, though can buy a new-build 737 with a door, nobody but the military and a few special customers ever have since the eighties. The use of narrow-body freighters vs. narrow body pax aircraft dictates conversion, not new-build, at least these days. There was more of an appetite for QC/Convertible narrow bodies in the 1960's through the early 1980s. But the A320P2F is canceled now, for a variety of reasons.


25 gigneil : TNT wanted to. But I can't think of any others. NS
26 BMI727 : No it wouldn't, and most of the work has been done in one form or another already. They don't need the range, but there doesn't seem to be much of a
27 joelyboy911 : Has the 764ERF been launched or announced by Boeing at all? If not it would seem a moot point to suggest that FedEx will order it. I'm sure they can a
28 einsteinboricua : Is it a winner take all order or is a split order on the way? I don't rule out a small A380F order (FX cancelled but never ruled out ordering it again
29 Stitch : Boeing have been in negotiations with FX, so while it is not yet a firm product, neither is it just a random idea. The A330-200F is a great match for
30 Max Q : The Cockpit's may look similar but the type ratings are different and the underlying systems, totally different so no !
31 gigneil : Cancelled but Airbus still has the deposit. FYI. At "general market density" yes. For FX? Maybe not. NS
32 aerokiwi : So what would the engines be for FedEx on the 764F? GEs? Were PW ever an option on the pax variant?
33 Stitch : P&W PW4000-94 and GE CF6-80C2 were the options, but DL and CO both went with GE.
34 fuelfool : They would not be able to replace the MD-10s on a one to one basis, unless they completely change the way the entire fleet is loaded. The current ULDs
35 Stitch : The A330 would be able to handle AMJ and AYY side-by-side as done on the A300/A310, but the 767 can't. The 767-400 can evidently take the belly cans F
36 fxramper : I'm curious where you heard this information because it's not entirely true.
37 Mir : The 330 will be better from a capacity and performance standpoint and is a more modern design, but it's a heavier airplane to begin with, and if FedEx
38 Post contains images lightsaber : IMHO this will be the most interesting wide body order of 2011. We'll start with: The 777 just wouldn't have good economics on the shorter missions th
39 Post contains links Stitch : A post on Airline Pilot Forums from an FX employee (FDX28): http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/archive/index.php/t-57453.html
40 SASMD82 : Actually, introducing a 767-400 as a replacement for the DC-10 (MD-10) seems quite logical if you don't need the range or capacity of the A330F. Howev
41 as739x : Now would FedEx having a growing fleet of 757's be a deciding factor? If they went with the 764, you have pilots to fly all but the 777 once the 727 a
42 worldliner : Can definatley see Boeing giving FX a good deal, as well as creating the 764F for them. This is Boeing's order to loose IMO, and I think FX will choos
43 JAAlbert : Okay, for those of us illiterate airplane buffs - such as myself - what's an IS&S cockpit?? And what is a 3gS? So I haven't seen any post specifi
44 Post contains images wrenchon727 : IS&S (Innovative solution & support) is the company that FX went with for the cockpit upgrade on the 757 that they are converting, Airborne h
45 nascarnut : Didn't Fedex help McDonnell Douglas and keep the DC10 line open by ordering top-ups of the DC10-30F/MD-11 until McDonnell were building the KC-10 as a
46 HPRamper : Many of the larger markets get flights from more than one hub, at PDX for example, MD-10s came in from MEM, IND and OAK. All the freight cannot be ro
47 1337Delta764 : The passenger 767-400ER holds somewhat more cargo than a passenger DC-10 (in terms of total volume), and I wouldn't be surprised if a 764ERF would ho
48 fpetrutiu : for example here at MCO, we get an MD11 and 2 DC 10's daily from MEM within 30 min of each other attiving at 6am. For this route it would see logical
49 wrenchon727 : With 777 coming on line MD11 are now becoming more frequent in the domestic system, ORD & MSP are recent upgrades examples . The 767 will replace
50 bonusonus : How many of FX's MD-10s are new builds and how many are conversions? I'm surprised that a freight carrier is considering such a large order for new ai
51 Post contains images Revelation : Indeed it would be a blessing, for the reason given by Lightsaber: It'd seem the right answer here would be to grow the MD11 fleet. IIRC FedEx had pu
52 HPRamper : MSP does not yet have a regularly scheduled MD11. It is supposed to start at about the beginning of October. Sadly, it comes at the expense of the 75
53 wrenchon727 : All MD10-10 were previous passenger aircraft converted to freighter. In the past FedEx was able to acquire large numbers of a/c in certain situations
54 Stitch : In terms of raw volume, the MD-10-30 is 470m3. An A330-200F would be 475m3 and the 767-400ERF would be more than the 438m3 of the 767-300F. In terms
55 kaitak : So, let's summarise and see what the benefits for each type are: B764: - Good cargo capacity - Although not a joint type rating with the 772, conversi
56 1337Delta764 : Range isn't all that important for FX, as the 77F already serves that purpose for them. Both the 764ER and A330 will offer more range than an MD-10,
57 BMI727 : At first glance probably, but Boeing has a lot of incentive to buy this order. I think that's what they will do, even if it is more or less a loss le
58 fpetrutiu : I really don't think FX cares much about resale value. They ussually retire airplanes, not resale them...
59 Stitch : It will be interesting to see just how low a price Boeing is willing to offer FX for the 767-400ERF. The 767-300F is still in pretty high demand, even
60 SEPilot : Why? They seem to be replacing MD11's with 77F's; I can see that if they get a really good deal on the odd MD11 that they might snatch it up, but the
61 fxramper : FX actually is still running the MD11 on most routes prior to the 77F entering service. 77F was never meant for true replacement of the 11. No. That
62 Revelation : Seems a joint type can be held with 757, but not sure if that matters to FX. Why? FX terminated the A380 contract with cause, namely the delays, so m
63 Post contains images Hamlet69 : Hmmmm. . . is that not what they are already doing for the KC-46A? Has that ever been confirmed? It's been bandied about on here quite a bit, but I'v
64 MillwallSean : Isnt this order more about timeframe. The 767-400 hasn't sold anything and virtually been eaten alive by the A330. When we see the timeframe that airc
65 XT6Wagon : passenger use != freighter use. One can be superior as a passenger plane without being better as a freighter. If you wish to argue the A330 is a bett
66 ltbewr : Let me throw something in here: a split of orders between the A330 and the B767. They would operate the respective models on certain city pairs where
67 Max Q : I think the interchangebility of containers will be a bigger deal than some think !
68 Post contains images lightsaber : While there is a role for for the MD-11 at FedEx for years, we're looking at a need 80 to 120 airframes. If every single non-FedEx MD-11 was offered
69 Stitch : I expect it's won some competitive RFPs against the A330. But it's still secured 363 orders (for all models) in the past 15 years. Boeing has enough
70 MillwallSean : How mant 767-400 freighters sold lately? Doesnt matter freighter or passenger the A330 has eaten the 767-400 alive....
71 fuelfool : The AMJs are loaded face to face on MD-10s. You cannot load AMJs face to face on the 300/310. As a person who has to deal with this, I sure hope you
72 Post contains links ha763 : Boeing already has a conversion for the 767-300 ready and in service. http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2008/q2/080616a_nr.html
73 Stitch : None, because the model is not yet officially available for order.
74 WingedMigrator : If we're talking about a 764F, perhaps we should also discuss the A333F, an airplane that doesn't exist yet but might suit FX better than the A332F.
75 ups757 : What is the difference between 767-300ERF & 767-400ERF?
76 1337Delta764 : A 767-400ERF would be a stretched version, just as the 767-400ER is a stretched 767-300ER.
77 fcogafa : Might UPS or DHL find this interesting as well?
78 gigneil : That's just not possible. The volume of a 767-400ER is not as addressable as an MD-10's. NS
79 747400sp : This could be interesting, and I going to look at this from an ideal point of view ( like I normally do). I would like to see a 764 ERF, because it is
80 Post contains images fxramper : This thread is about freighters not pax a/c. This issue has already been resolved. I've been saying that since we brought the 77F into the parking lo
81 MD-90 : Addressable?
82 747400sp : I like said earlier, I prefer 764 ERF and A333F, but are they just retiring the 10s or will they retire the 11s also?
83 fxramper : If we had 100 77F in the system the 11's would still do domestic routes.
84 gigneil : Since I don't know the details of the containers that may have been developed to solve the problem, as far as I know the A330 for now has much more u
85 cslusarc : I like a KISS (Kepp it Simple S*p*d) medthod solution to solve this problem. 1 I think that the 757-200 is significantly more cost effective on domest
86 r2rho : Well, the A300F model didn't really take off until towards the end of the pax model's life. The A330F's main problem is that more lucrative pax model
87 fxramper : FX still has seed money with Airbus.
88 Ruscoe : I just took a look at the payload range graphs. DC10 - 30F carries Max 69T for 3200nm @ MTOW of 260T 47T for 4500nm @ 260T 42T for 5000nm @ 260T B764
89 SEPilot : FX is in the business of making money, not introducing "ground breaking" aircraft to keep enthusiasts happy. Except that FX and UPS seem to be going
90 Jack : I could be wrong on this but I thought it was UPS that changed A300 orders to A380 and then cancelled. I think Fedex ordered and took delivery of the
91 bmacleod : The MD-1l is one of the best-looking and beautiful aircraft ever built. I for one will really miss the MD-11 when it is retired from service.
92 HPRamper : The MD-10 can carry about 3x the containerized cargo volume (very rough numbers of course) of the 752. It is in no way cost effective to substitute t
93 cslusarc : Thanks for this information. I was basing my previous comment on the fact that in passenger operations that a 757 has better.CASM than a DC-10. But f
94 HPRamper : Keep in mind I mentioned volume as opposed to weight...it's a tricky distinction. I'm not sure what the difference in MTOW is although I'm sure it's
95 Max Q : You didn't mean to use Kilometres did you ?!
96 SEPilot : You may be right. At this point I cannot recall which one did this. As the saying goes, there are three signs of senility; the first is loss of memor
97 United_fan : What about FX aquiring early 77A's to convert like was rumored earlier.
98 fpetrutiu : That's one way to make a customer happy... LOL
99 na : Shhh... dont tell it to Boeing. Maybe they´ll pull it if the 764F idea doesnt sell, but otherwise the earlier a 777BCF comes, the worse for Boeing a
100 Ronaldo747 : Might be correct on a handful routes, however the 757 is rather a 727/310 replacement than the DC/MD10's.
101 United_fan : The converted 77A is differant than a factory new 77F. The 'A' model was a domestic 777,while a factory 'F' is a 777LR based frame.
102 wrenchon727 : If you were on the MEM ramp last Wednesday you may have been lucky enough to see the cans being loaded on a MD10 for fitting and caught a glimpse of
103 Post contains images lightsaber : Also FedEx and UPS are utilizing a certain fraction of their fleet enough to pay for new aircraft. In effect, FedEx has three fleets: 1. One fleet ut
104 Stitch : The conversion cost Boeing is asking for is astronomical (there is significant labor costs in ripping out the CFRP floor beams on the passenger model
105 SEPilot : Hey, they both had all of their lawyers examine it to make sure all the t's were dotted and the i's crossed; at the time of the original contract FX
106 cslusarc : After thinking about this issue a little more, I now think that FX should try and acquire as many A-Market 777-200s as it can because the A-Market 777
107 cmb56 : For either FDX or UPS the aircraft typically run out of room before they reach their maximum weight. Both FDX and UPS will replace two smaller planes
108 gigneil : I sincerely doubt there are that many actually available for sale at this time. NS
109 WingedMigrator : You seem to be assuming that "the A330" being offered to FX is the -200F model. There have been noises over the past few years that Airbus may offer
110 SEPilot : While the "reality" of the A333F and 764ERF may be equivalent, I suspect that Boeing is in a much better position to actually produce it in a timely
111 Stitch : Even though the production rate is low, the 767 line is operating at designed capacity and Boeing is not "desperate" for customers. They have suffici
112 lightsaber : Resale value of the 77A is too high to launch a 777BCF program (at this time). Agreed. I've tried to be careful that Boeing is looking for an order t
113 Stitch : The new line is significantly quicker and cheaper at pushing out a 767, so that would allow Boeing to lower the price to FX (and other customers) whi
114 Post contains links stlgph : http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...order-to-renew-delivery-fleet.html
115 Post contains images Hamlet69 : When I first heard FX had asked Boeing about a possible 767-400FX, I honestly did not think Boeing would go through with it. A year down the road, ho
116 Post contains images 747400sp : Well, Hamlet69, you are thinking good and clearly, this is a good ideal.
117 BMI727 : The issue was that even the 767-300 wasn't offered for this last RFP because it's length was too long and there wouldn't be enough boom clearance dur
118 gigneil : If a 767-300 wasn't offered, I'm curious how the significantly longer A330 would have worked out... NS
119 rwessel : It's not a matter of simple length, rather the whole geometry of the aircraft at rotation. For example, all other things being equal, a longer fusela
120 gigneil : Makes sense of course. I'm not so sure the 767-400ER would make a good general market freighter, much less a tanker transport. Lets call it what it is
121 Hamlet69 : Rotation problems would certainly be an issue. However, IIRC, during the RAF campaign, Boeing DID offer converted BA 763ER's. So at least for that fra
122 BMI727 : I'm pretty sure that RAF only uses hose and drogue, so no boom, no problem.
123 Post contains links ATA L1011 : Here is a good article comparing some of the mentioned freighters! http://www.team.aero/images/aviation_data_insert/A330200F.pdf
124 Post contains links lightsaber : Interesting read, but note: Fuel price used is 70 cents per US gallon. I bet every airline wishes they could buy fuel at that price! Now, I'm used to
125 Max Q : And you come to this conclusion, how ?! Having actually flown the B764 since it first rolled out I can tell you it is no lightweight. Non stop EWR-HN
126 XT6Wagon : No he is infact correct. That 100K lbs less MTOW to haul the same volume of cargo does mean the 767 is a lightweight (plane) compared to the A332F. I
127 breiz : That is correct. The ac to be used by the RAF are leased from AirTanker and are supposed to be available on the passenger market when released by the
128 gigneil : I wasn't talking about FX in my post either... i meant as a non package freighter, or as a tanker. I think it will do splendidly at FX. I don't think
129 Post contains images ATA l1011 : Well I know that as its an older article, I was showing it to show the different capacities/capabilities of them on a side by side comparison
130 SEPilot : This may well be true. However, if you look at it from the perspective of getting the most aircraft as soon as possible, it would be far easier for B
131 cmb56 : Some information pretty much straight from the Boeing public access site. The 767 ER models, all of them, have the exact same fuel capacity. They all
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