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Do Pmnw Crew Operate DL Flights To SYD?  
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7842 times:

I was picking a friend up from SYD recently and saw the Delta crew walking through arrivals, and was wondering if any Pre-merger Northwest Flight Attendants operate Sydney flights, or is it just LAX based PMDL?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAussieItaliano From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7825 times:

I would imagine that seniority plays a big role in scheduling FA crews on a route like this. If I remember correctly, DL and NW integrated their seniority levels, so I would imagine that PMNW crews would fly this route along with PMDL crews.


LHR - The Capital of the World
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7744 times:

Quoting AussieItaliano (Reply 1):
I would imagine that seniority plays a big role in scheduling FA crews on a route like this. If I remember correctly, DL and NW integrated their seniority levels, so I would imagine that PMNW crews would fly this route along with PMDL crews.

PMNW and PMDL pilots are fully integrated, but only PMDL pilots can fly the 777s for now due to the fence agreement that precluded PMDL pilots from flying the 747 (granted, some PMDL pilots are now flying the 747 due to openings on the 747 roster that no PMNW pilot wanted).

PMNW and PMDL flight attendants are still separated and cannot work together at this time. Given that the SYD route is a legacy PMDL route out of LAX, it's flown with the PMDL FAs (granted, this is not the case at every station, but seems to be for LAX). PMNW FAs continue to work the Narita flight, while I think the PMDL side has the Haneda flight.


User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7627 times:

Is LAX a senior base for FAs? How big a base it is compared to ATL?

Do PMNW operate any 777 flights?


User currently offlineaviationbuff08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7247 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 3):
Do PMNW operate any 777 flights?

NWA premerger did not have any 777 in their fleet.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 2):
PMNW and PMDL flight attendants are still separated and cannot work together at this time.

I am interested in this a little. I have flown on the lovely DC-9 several times recently ATL-ORD/EWR and noticed that they have had both PMNW and PMDL flight attendants operating on the DC-9. Some have been ATL/LGA/CHI/DTW/MEM based F/A.

I even chatted with an attractive F/A on one of my ATL-ORD flights and she mentioned that she started the day on an MD-88 into ATL, then this R/T to ORD with the DC-9 then was going to operate a 757 to FLA as i cannot remember which city, to finish her day. With the next day she would stay on the 757 all day. This particular F/A was ATL based and was hired in the last few years. So this particular crew must have all been PMDL and is it possible this particular F/A was on a reserve schedule?

Can they use a PMDL F/A to fill in a gap with a PMNW crew that is operating from ATL to cover a sick or injured F/A in the middle of the trip?


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7220 times:

Quoting aviationbuff08 (Reply 4):
I am interested in this a little. I have flown on the lovely DC-9 several times recently ATL-ORD/EWR and noticed that they have had both PMNW and PMDL flight attendants operating on the DC-9. Some have been ATL/LGA/CHI/DTW/MEM based F/A.

Domestically a flight can be PMNW one day, PMDL the next. All depends on how crew scheduling builds the lines. Just because a flight is on one pattern one day doesn't mean it's the same pattern the next.

Quoting aviationbuff08 (Reply 4):

I even chatted with an attractive F/A on one of my ATL-ORD flights and she mentioned that she started the day on an MD-88 into ATL, then this R/T to ORD with the DC-9 then was going to operate a 757 to FLA as i cannot remember which city, to finish her day. With the next day she would stay on the 757 all day. This particular F/A was ATL based and was hired in the last few years. So this particular crew must have all been PMDL and is it possible this particular F/A was on a reserve schedule?

If she was ATL based, then she is PMDL. With PMDL FAs, she could have been on a schedule, or she could have been called out from one of her A Days, which is a reserve-type system.

Quoting aviationbuff08 (Reply 4):
Can they use a PMDL F/A to fill in a gap with a PMNW crew that is operating from ATL to cover a sick or injured F/A in the middle of the trip?

Nope. If a FA goes down and they cannot get a FA from the same workgroup to operate that flight, then the entire FA crew must be replaced. There are normally quite a few PMNW FAs with extended sits in ATL that can be reshuffled around to not cause any major issues though, but it does happen a decent bit.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7173 times:
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Quoting Jackbr (Reply 3):
Do PMNW operate any 777 flights?

Yes, on all the DTW-Asia (PEK, HKG, ICN) 777 flights, for example, as DTW is still an exclusively PMNW FA base.


User currently offlineaviationbuff08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7008 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 5):
Nope. If a FA goes down and they cannot get a FA from the same workgroup to operate that flight, then the entire FA crew must be replaced. There are normally quite a few PMNW FAs with extended sits in ATL that can be reshuffled around to not cause any major issues though, but it does happen a decent bit.

This must make for a crew scheduling headache on a daily basis. I can understand why DL is rather upset that the AFA and IAM issues is still not settled.

How does DL ramp handle the PMNW aircraft in ATL as i read somewhere that the IAM must ground handle PMNW aircraft and the PMNW aircraft park all over ATL?


User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6952 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 3):
Is LAX a senior base for FAs? How big a base it is compared to ATL?

I believe LAX is a very senior DL FA base, with a lot of people still there from the Western merger.


User currently offlinewillzzz88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6827 times:

The SYD route must be ONE of the most sought after routes in the PMNW FA system...

It's very long (14 hours) so that builds lots of hours in one bat. (Lots of hours simply working to AUSTRALIA!!!)

Also the destination is very desirable as it is Delta's only Western world destination in the trans-Pac. world (Oceania) with a culture VERY SIMILAR to that of North America.

Only English is needed (or maybe British/Australian English LOL!).

Anyways yeah... That route must be hard to get for PMNW F/A's.


User currently offlinewillzzz88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6824 times:

I guess seniority wins... When is it going to be integrated!?!?!?

User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6808 times:
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Quoting willzzz88 (Reply 9):
The SYD route must be ONE of the most sought after routes in the PMNW FA system...

The LAX-SYD route is assigned to the PMDL LAX-based FAs so the PMNW LAX FAs can't even bid for it.


User currently offlinePI4EVER From United States of America, joined May 2009, 679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6752 times:
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On my SYD flight in May, the LAX F/A crews were very senior.....average 25+ years each and they work the roundtrip to SYD just 3 times a month and they're done. It is a long flight with designated rest periods and a full 24hour+ layover in SYD and are very popular. Only gripe.....a bumpy ride in the tail end crew rest area on just about every flight.
On our flight to SYD, we had over 5 hours of continuous turbulence and one F/A said they simply could not get comfortable in the tight rest area while the pilots enjoyed a smoother ride in their rest area above the forward Business class galley.
Food and service was excellent.



watch what you want. you may get it.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25357 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6655 times:

Quoting willzzz88 (Reply 9):
Also the destination is very desirable as it is Delta's only Western world destination in the trans-Pac. world (Oceania) with a culture VERY SIMILAR to that of North America.

If I have to fly for 14 or 15 hours each way I would much rather be going somewhere that is NOT very similar to where I live.


User currently offlinenwa757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6552 times:

Just to note, HND out of LAX rotates monthly between PMDL FAs and PMNW. Same with some of the LAX-Hawaii flying, PMDL get the OOG layover one month, PMNW the next etc.

User currently offlinewillzzz88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6522 times:

Well I'm waiting for the integration and equal 50/50.

PMNW FA's not allowed to bid on the SYD route maybe a bit unfair. ;-(


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6511 times:

If they were non-union, it wouldn't be happening.

NS


User currently offlineflyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1878 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6386 times:

I'm continuously more annoyned by the fact that the FA's of what is now ONE Delta aren't able to fly together because of continuous interruptions regarding the integration process. Not placing particular blame on any group, but it has really inconvienced the FAs as a whole. The constant judging in the crew rooms is another issues "which side is he/she on?" is just ridiculous also- aren't we all flight attendants first, and foremost?

I feel like Delta has been relucctant to move around base numbers until this debaucle has been officially sorted out as to avoid any objective issues such as base re-bids etc.

Does anyone know anything new related to NMBs investigation and remedy?

Once the intergration is given the go- I also wonder how work rules will start to be modified (minor adjustments) to apease both sides (which delta will undoubtingly do IMO)

Regarding reserve for whoever asked: PMDL FAs share reserve...if you're seniority falls at a certain percentile you may be protected and not fly any "Adays" other groups in each base are assigned one block of 3 Adays, or one block of six, or two blocks of three.

MUCH better system than anyother legacy carrier which subjects FAs to years on end of reserve- and some of their reserve systems are aweful!


User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5711 times:
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Quoting willzzz88 (Reply 10):
When is it going to be integrated!?!?!?

Whenever the NMB decides whether or not they're going recall the previous election and force another, or stand by the 1st election result and decertify the union and merge the FA seniority list

Quoting willzzz88 (Reply 15):
PMNW FA's not allowed to bid on the SYD route maybe a bit unfair. ;-(

If the PMDL LAX base didn't have the SYD flight, they would have to furlough out of the LAX base. I think if we end up going non-union they will probably end up having to furlough as well, which would mostly be on the PMNW side since I think the the most junior FAs on the PMDL side are like 10 years I think. But the would be the senario unless we add more flying, which is always possible. But we just wouldn't have enough flying to go around with A days, because the straight reserve system requires more deadweight to be around where the A day system doesn't.



Made from jets!
User currently offlinexdlx From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 658 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5225 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 18):

There are issues like the "ripoff" of Social Security offset DL has, that the NMB will not resolve.
I will like to know the company position on this subject.
Are they going to FORCE the PMNW F/A into the offset?


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5125 times:

Social Security offsets are a standard practice of any company with a pension. There's nothing wrong with them whatsoever.

NS


User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 785 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 18):
If the PMDL LAX base didn't have the SYD flight, they would have to furlough out of the LAX base. I think if we end up going non-union they will probably end up having to furlough as well, which would mostly be on the PMNW side since I think the the most junior FAs on the PMDL side are like 10 years I think. But the would be the senario unless we add more flying, which is always possible. But we just wouldn't have enough flying to go around with A days, because the straight reserve system requires more deadweight to be around where the A day system doesn't.

Actually DL hired FAs within the past year if I'm not mistaken.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4707 times:

Quoting toobz (Reply 21):

Actually DL hired FAs within the past year if I'm not mistaken.

They did, but a move to A Days would likely lead to some overstaffing since less FAs are needed for A Days than a traditional reserve system.

Company wins by having to pay less employees to do the same job, FAs win through a higher quality of life (or so they argue).


User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2698 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4602 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 16):
If they were non-union, it wouldn't be happening.

If who were non-union, what wouldn't be happening?


User currently offlineLoveTheSkies From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4467 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 22):
They did, but a move to A Days would likely lead to some overstaffing since less FAs are needed for A Days than a traditional reserve system.

Company wins by having to pay less employees to do the same job, FAs win through a higher quality of life (or so they argue).

The number of F/A wouldn't change at all. You still need to cover each day of the month with the same number of reserve F/A (you'll still have sick calls to be covered as well as originations that come up on a daily basis.) The difference is that with adays those reserves come out of a larger pool of F/A.

For example, for September in ATL there are about 5740 PMDL F/A. They need to cover about 9400 adays which requires about 2380 F/A to hold either 3 or 6 adays. If we still had full month reserve as we did in the past (and the PMNW F/A still have), it would take 470 F/A to cover the same 9400 reserve days (20 reserve days with 10 days off)

edited for spelling

[Edited 2011-09-06 19:27:39]

[Edited 2011-09-06 19:28:10]

25 toobz : I'm sure he was referring to PMNW not being able to bid on SYD
26 B727FA : Unless she was a load factor, I don't get it. The trips are built by crew-size type: DC9/M88/737/319/320 (3 FA), 738/757/M90 (4 FA). She couldn't be
27 B727FA : There are routes that PMDL can't bid either...it's not about fairness, it's about sked efficiency.
28 B727FA : The lack of the SYD flight wouldn't trigger furloughs in LAX or anywhere else. As for the lower number of FA's needed for traditional v/s ADays the AT
29 jetjack74 : Based in LA? I'm talking about only the most junior at LAX. DL furloughs by base, not systemwide, unless all bases require downsizing The integration
30 B727FA : Huh? Ummm...no.
31 toobz : Oh..no not based in LAX for sure. I thought you meant hiring in general.
32 jetjack74 : Before the NMB decision, you're right(because DL mgmt would definately not want to do anything that could sway the 2nd election, should there be one)
33 Post contains images LoveTheSkies : Where do you see that in our work rules??? Trip coverage is very clearly outlined in section 6. In my 21+ years I've never been pulled of a trip. ...
34 XFSUgimpLB41X : No PMDL pilots are flying the 747, jut as no PMNW pilots are flying the 777. The most junior pilot flying the 747 is about 9300 seniority out of 1230
35 jetjack74 : Just because "it's never happened to me" in your 21 years doesn't mean it can't or will never happen. DL's policy manual is subject to change at any
36 LoveTheSkies : Yes, that's correct, reserves are on reserve, that's the idea!
37 FlyASAGuy2005 : PMNW a/c park on every concourse in Atlanta (even C and D). Ground crew and work any a/c from a DC9/320 to a PMDL 757.
38 Transpac787 : Where do you get any of your information?? It's so frequently wrong, and DEAD wrong. For one, the 744 cannot be flown by any PMDL pilot until 01 Janu
39 nwa757boy : 1. whether it be for flight leader, 2. LOD, or 3. to round out crew staffing when a crew of FAs with less than 4 mos experience is assigned. That's wh
40 XFSUgimpLB41X : Actually, it can be. Same with the 777 for PMNW... if there were a lack of bidders from the allowable side, then the fenced side can get it.
41 B727FA : I'm curious as to who the "we" of "...what we're being told" would be. Who are you? DL doesn't just "furlough" for fun's sake. They don't upsize/down
42 B727FA : I don't understand this. There have been numerous situations where
43 B727FA : That should read: "I don't understand this. There have been numerous situations wherein crews of entirely
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