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QF To Fly 777-300ER?  
User currently offlinecosmofly From United States of America, joined May 2009, 649 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16934 times:

I saw the following and wonder if it has any merit.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/344866-interesting-777-order/

It says GECAS's order of 8 77W could be for QF and QF is training 777 pilots at CX.

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16926 times:

Doubt it and it's been discussed to death on here.

User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16888 times:

It would be lovely, but the original poster on the other board - IF (a big if) his story is true, really should keep his mouth shut fingers and fingers holstered. When told something in confidence, he should know better and I feel for his father now that his son has blabbed.

User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9180 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16775 times:

Quoting cosmofly (Thread starter):
QF is training 777 pilots at CX

All I can say in response to that, is that when external training is done like this (for example when CX trained Virgin Australia A330 crews), CX management informs the pilot union in writing.

No such advice has been forthcoming to date regarding QF.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offline2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16692 times:

Though the order is speculationoas of now the 77W would make a great replacement for the older 747-400s and serve as a great size median between the A380 and the A330-300 and 787-9. I'm hoping it is not just another repeat rumor.


"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16578 times:

Man I hope they order it. It's not too late to order it. Just because other aircraft will be coming out in the future with economics that are a bit better, the 77W is a very very efficient airplane and can make an airline a lot of money.

If they were to get it, I have a feeling they would like the efficiency and performance so much that they would order additional frames. BA is said to be loving theirs.



Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlineantskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 936 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16582 times:

QF missed the bus with the 777 years ago. Whatever their management say, not including in their fleet what is probably the best medium density long-distance passenger plane in the skies the past decade was a dumb decision. It would also have looked great in QF colours (smile). Air New Zealand also missed the same bus, but swallowed its pride a few years ago, and did something about it. Their 777's are doing very well for them, now, it seems. Emirates has shown both airlines a thing or three about aircraft choice since they arrived downunder. It is their use of the amazing 777 that QF needs to learn a bit from. The new generation is just about here now, so new buses to catch. For me, for what it's worth, I would have liked the 747-8, as Lufthansa has done. But they won't go there, either (smile)

[Edited 2011-09-08 12:16:25]

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16322 times:

Quoting antskip (Reply 6):
QF missed the bus with the 777 years ago.

Carriers are still ordering them en masse so if QF get them quickly the will not have missed it.. 

That being said, from the thread source:

"My father is good friends with the owner of airliners.net"

A.net is owned by Demand Media, no?

Demand Media is a publicly traded company.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=DMD&ql=0



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31132 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16310 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

There have also been claims/rumors that QF pilots have trained here in Seattle on the 777 simulators.

Personally, the only way I see QF adding the 777 is via a lease and if they were going to lease from anyone, I believe it would be GECAS.

That being said, I'll believe it when I see a 77W in QF livery lift off of SYD with passengers aboard.  


User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1567 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16281 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
That being said, I'll believe it when I see a 77W in QF livery lift off of SYD with passengers aboard

Hopefully headed non-stop to SFO!!!


User currently offlineantskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 936 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16138 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
Quoting antskip (Reply 6):
QF missed the bus with the 777 years ago.

Carriers are still ordering them en masse so if QF get them quickly the will not have missed it..

Sure the 777 is still very current. But I doubt they will stray from the huge and the medium small. I feel the 747-8, however, should be in their revised plans - after all, they have a core of older generation 747s', and are not committing so heavily to the A380 as they might - a group of scheduled A380's is being put off until they function as replacements for the 747. Why not replace like with like? A small contingent of 747-8's along with however many A380 they need might provide a better mix / flexibility?...


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2099 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 15983 times:

Perhaps some 77Ws, if this is true, could be for Qantas Group rather than QF. The proposed Asian longhaul carrier will need some aircraft!


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8459 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15493 times:

They might want to get some 77Ls while they're at it to solve their issues operating to DFW.

User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5719 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15359 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 9):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
That being said, I'll believe it when I see a 77W in QF livery lift off of SYD with passengers aboard

Frankly, I'd still be have my doubts! It could still be a trick with smoke & mirrors!

While after 40 years observing the airline industry I hesitate to anything is impossible, this one is definitely in the improbable category. Actually I think Zeke killed this particular rumor it in reply 3.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 14730 times:

Quoting antskip (Reply 10):
I feel the 747-8, however, should be in their revised plans - after all, they have a core of older generation 747s',

I think the B748 is completely out for QF. Either they will just stick their current B744's for a longer period of time or will take their A380's earlier. No need for them to take B748's. I see the B77W has a better "gap filler" than a B748I.

Regardless, I've heard one-too many of these rumours.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 14484 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 5):
It's not too late to order it.

It is.

Quoting antskip (Reply 6):
Air New Zealand also missed the same bus, but swallowed its pride a few years ago, and did something about it

I doubt they had 12 A380s on order at the time (+12 options) though, plus orders for the 787.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2990 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14307 times:

Can I also just say that Australian airlines cannot hide aircraft orders like other airlines around the world. If they intend to take delivery of aircraft then they have to announce it to the ASX immediately or risk facing enormous fines/action against executive staff. And they're hardly sending pilots for training if they haven't signed a contract with a leasing company/Boeing...

We will know about a QF order for the 777 pretty much as soon as it happens (not that it's going to...)


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14285 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):
Can I also just say that Australian airlines cannot hide aircraft orders like other airlines around the world.

This wouldn't be a QF order. It would be a lease, possibly for a shorter period of time than a typical 20 year ownership period.

That said, I don't think this story has merit.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2990 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 14230 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 18):
This wouldn't be a QF order. It would be a lease, possibly for a shorter period of time than a typical 20 year ownership period.

They've still committed to taking additional aircraft, and would still have to announce it as soon as the contract was signed. And like I said, you don't send pilots for training if you're not 100% certain you're getting the planes.


User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 14082 times:

Can't see it happening.

Alan Joyce made a huge announcement on QF International in mid-August. He cannot change it completely by adding another fleet type without giving the impression that QF is completely devoid of strategy. It would have been good but it's not happening any time soon.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,310,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,AT
User currently offlineVH-BZF From Australia, joined Oct 1999, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13667 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 20):
Can't see it happening.

Alan Joyce made a huge announcement on QF International in mid-August. He cannot change it completely by adding another fleet type without giving the impression that QF is completely devoid of strategy. It would have been good but it's not happening any time soon.

I agree.

Qantas has orders for A380's, B787's and B737's (with A320 fleet for JQ, JQJ, JQA etc). If anything Qantas will commit to the B787-10 that Boeing is committed to building now. QF wants new technology aircraft and the B777 (despite what a great work horse it is, no doubting it would have been the best choice for Qantas!) is from what I'm told regarded by QF as old technology given that its a product from the 1990's. With new technology aircraft comes lower costs - Qantas needs to transform it's business - and everything associated with that. As above, the international business is not making money, so they need to curb spending apart from what the board has already committed to for existing orders.

BZF



Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13586 times:

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 21):
If anything Qantas will commit to the B787-10 that Boeing is committed to building now

Probably what will happen.

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 21):
) is from what I'm told regarded by QF as old technology given that its a product from the 1990's.

If its "old technology" then why are some of the premier carriers in the world (a few who are kicking QF's ar$e) still ordering? Maybe QF need to re-evaluate what their definition of "old technology" is.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2990 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13528 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
Probably what will happen.

A 787-10 would work well for QF. If they order it then they even not take their last 6 A380s 8 years down the track -- a moderately high density 787-10 would be perfect for their flights into Asia, and depending on range could potentially stretch to routes like BNE-LAX or SIN-FRA (I doubt it though).

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
If its "old technology" then why are some of the premier carriers in the world (a few who are kicking QF's ar$e) still ordering? Maybe QF need to re-evaluate what their definition of "old technology" is.

Agreed. Add to that the fact that the 77W/77L are really 2000s technology. The 77W is pretty much on par with the A380 in terms of the technology available (I'm assuming here that the A380's design freeze was probably around 2004 somewhere) -- yet nobody says that the A380 is 'old' technology yet.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13345 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 23):
If they order it then they even not take their last 6 A380s 8 years down the track -

But won't their B744's will be getting quite up there in the cycles? Also, I expect the A380's in 2016, 2017, etc. to be bit more efficient than the current A380's..  

Quoting qf002 (Reply 23):
a moderately high density 787-10 would be perfect for their flights into Asia

  

Quoting qf002 (Reply 23):
and depending on range could potentially stretch to routes like BNE-LAX or SIN-FRA (I doubt it though).

The B787-10X would have to be about a 6500-6600nm plane..not sure if it will be possible. That being said - a recent article:

"The conceptual Boeing 787-10X, a stretch of the 787-9 due for entry into service in 2013, will have seating for 320 passengers and a range capability of 6,900nm (12,600km), said Boeing Commercial Airplanes vice-president of business development Nicole Piasecki."

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...y-defines-787-10x-performance.html

Quoting qf002 (Reply 23):
Agreed. Add to that the fact that the 77W/77L are really 2000s technology. The 77W is pretty much on par with the A380 in terms of the technology available (I'm assuming here that the A380's design freeze was probably around 2004 somewhere) -- yet nobody says that the A380 is 'old' technology yet.

I agree. The B77W is second to none in its class and is only improving. One would think QF management were reading A.net....then again, there are a few here on A.net who are smarter than QF management..  



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2990 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13272 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
But won't their B744's will be getting quite up there in the cycles? Also, I expect the A380's in 2016, 2017, etc. to be bit more efficient than the current A380's.. 

They could use 787-10s to replace 747s to destinations like NRT, HKG and SIN, and potentially further reaching destinations like BNE-LAX. Maybe they take another couple of A380s to cover SCL/JNB, but aside from those all the 747 routes can be replaced with 787s if they are the more efficient option.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
The B787-10X would have to be about a 6500-6600nm plane..not sure if it will be possible. That being said - a recent article:

It really comes down to what Boeing decides customers want. Having seem the 773 sales compared with the 77W they might be more inclined to do a bit more to get a more capable bird out there from the start to make it more attractive to 777 operators looking for replacements early next decade in the face of the A350 family. Having said that, they might decide to just lengthen the 789 and leave everything else as it (which would defs not make BNE-LAX)

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
then again, there are a few here on A.net who are smarter than QF management..

Like all of us??  


25 bill142 : And having 1990s technology has to be better than having 1960s technology right? Could be that these are going to replace the 747 fleet entirely and
26 Chrisba777er : Dream on - wont happen, I'm afraid. A332, 789, A359, 744ER and A380 is QF's long-haul future. 77W almost no chance unless Boeing does a 777NGX thing Y
27 Post contains images qf002 : I don't even see the A332 in there tbh. They only have 4 international frames as it is and only really use them on AKL-LAX and LAX-JFK (others are ju
28 travelhound : If we are talking about how the QF fleet will look in about ten years time, I'd suggest we can take the 767, A330 and 744 out of the equation. In ess
29 SUNRISEVALLEY : I was told by an insider who would know that the 77W would happen if fuel prices got beyond an unspecified level and made the replacement of the 747's
30 Post contains images Jacobin777 : From what I was able to gather from various resources, it was about >$120/barrel. There was more talk of this back in 2008 when oil was really goin
31 gemuser : Actually I count that as only TWO different types. IF the manufactures had met their orginally contracted time line the B744 would have gone, replaced
32 SUNRISEVALLEY : I believe things have changed in the meantime. The crack spread is widening. One source showed that for 2010 the average WTI price was $79.48 /b with
33 dfwdfw : The 777-300ER would be good for DFW
34 QFA787380 : Sorry, you are guessing just as much re 359s at QF as others are re 77Ws. They have never suggested any intent to purchase 359s and 787-10Xs would be
35 Post contains links thegeek : No, it would be slightly improved. Perhaps you meant 77L? Either way, it's a hypothetical argument because the frames wouldn't be delivered before th
36 SUNRISEVALLEY : I am not sure. From the load/range chart it should be good for 36t DFW-SYD . Certainly an improvement on the -400ER. But EK are saying that on DXB-LA
37 SUNRISEVALLEY : Be interesting to watch passenger loads as and when the frequency is increased. The present A380 should be able to do about 48 to 50t payload on the
38 thegeek : That's good enough for a full pax load in QF config. I assume that's for the present DFW-BNE route, I'd think it would be worth skipping BNE on those
39 SUNRISEVALLEY : No , DFW-SYD. My point is that if they can get the passenger loads up to that level they have space for ~ 15t of cargo to take them to 44t.
40 thegeek : Ok, cool. But I'm sure they'd rather sell more seats to passengers than put in so much cargo. I can't imagine there would be that much cargo that wou
41 SUNRISEVALLEY : Would they have to cut back -400ER service somewhere else if they were to commit three -400ER to daily service to DFW?
42 thegeek : I'm confused about this point also. Although wouldn't 2 -ERs be enough? Apparently they had some need or they might have kept SYD-SFO going. Here's w
43 QF15 : Currently the 6x 744ER fly the following: SYD-LAX 2-ER MEL-LAX 1-ER SYD-DFW 1-ER SYD-EZE 1-ER Plus one seems to float around on routes like SYD-NRT/H
44 thegeek : So a non ER 744 would likely have to do QF107/108 occasionally when SYD-DFW goes daily, assuming that happens before VH-OQK arrives.
45 Airvan00 : Don't forget maintenance and reconfiguring. OEE hasn't flown for 3 weeks after a flight to HKG presumably having a freshen up in China and OEG has no
46 qf002 : Yes it would. By my very rough calculation the flight takes about 43-44 hours from leaving SYD to get back... I don't understand it either. They say
47 747m8te : Yes they pop up everywhere from time to time, I've flown the ERs on LAX-BNE route too...they seem to get rotated through alot of the 747 sectors that
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