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What’s Doing In DEN? Summer-Fall 2011  
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5168 times:

Okay, big news is that Santiago Calatrava and Festina Lente have withdrawn from the Denver South Terminal Project.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18853028?source=rss_igoogle

It seems that DEN has a budget of $500M here, and Calatrava et al envision the project’s cost at $650M. A bit more on this below.

Also, according to the CAPA Center for Aviation, DEN has the distinction of having more LLC service than any other airport in the world, beating out second place LAS. Still, the LLC service amounts to only 45.7% of total seats, whereas second place LAS has 59% and third place MDW has a whopping 93.9% of LLC seats.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...-worlds-leading-lcc-airports-58457

Another distinction, also according to the CAPA Center for Aviation, is that DEN is the top rated major airport in the world in terms of percentage of domestic operations (97%) to international operations. But conversely, I guess that it would also mean that DEN is ranked dead last of the major airports in terms percentage (3%) of international operations.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...0-airports-a-disparate-group-56728

But have no fear. Help is on its way with a purportedly new international flight. As posted in another thread here, FI is looking to start KEF-DEN n/s service in the early part of 2012. Yay if this becomes the real thing.

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_18846550

But the Calatrava seems to be a major blow. This could get interesting, whereas DIA officials said they intend to proceed with the project using designs already produced by the Spanish architect and his firm, Festina Lente.

yet...

Calatrava and Festina Lente "will retain exclusive ownership of the original concepts, copyright and intellectual property rights expressed or embodied in all architectural designs for the project created by Calatrava". Calatrava has been paid nearly $13M for this so far.

Anyone smell a lot of ligitation here?

Also, the airport has to deliver a terminal station to RTD by the end of 2014.

Anyone know of anything else happening here in the rough-and-tumble, free-for-all, (and purported Headquarters of the New World Order) domain in what is known as Denver International Airport?

And is this bye-bye to this?


Calatrava Denver International expansion


27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5088 times:

Quoting point2point (Thread starter):
But the Calatrava seems to be a major blow. This could get interesting, whereas DIA officials said they intend to proceed with the project using designs already produced by the Spanish architect and his firm, Festina Lente.

yet...

Calatrava and Festina Lente "will retain exclusive ownership of the original concepts, copyright and intellectual property rights expressed or embodied in all architectural designs for the project created by Calatrava". Calatrava has been paid nearly $13M for this so far.

Anyone smell a lot of ligitation here?

I have no idea what will happen but since DEN has paid for all of the work he has done so far I would imagine that DEN owns the designs and could work with someone else to have it built. I personally would rather DEN find someone else who could do a better job and come up with a design that looks worthy of being built at that location but no one cares what I want!

** I actually kind of like the concept as it is right now but I really think it COULD be even better.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 4610 times:

I think that already known here on a.net, Icelandair will now offer yearly 4X weekly service starting in 2012 between DEN and KEF on a 757. FI and DEN officials are hoping to leverage European connections via KEF and the Denver area to make this flight successful, since DEN currently has dailies with an LH 744 to FRA and a BA 777 to LHR as its only flights across the pond. FI is now the fifth foreign flag carrier at DEN, with AC, AM, BA, and LH.

Airport info just released shows that DEN had 5,099,489 passengers in July, up 0.8% from last July, and up 2.3% overall for this year from last year. This is three years in a row that DEN has had over 5M passengers in July. Also, traffic movements at 57,224 (up 0.3% from last July) make it the third busiest airport in the world for for traffic movements this last July, behind ATL and ORD, and ever so slighly ahead of fourth place DFW at 57,187 movements. Also, market share per airport info shows UA at 24.1% (with UAX at 14.4% and C0 at 3.2%), F9 with 23.3% and WN at 21.6%. Isn't WN supposed to be ahead of F9 here?

http://business.flydenver.com/stats/traffic/index.asp
(and click on July)


Denver now has Anderson Mason Dale, a local firm, as its "architect-of-record" for the train station on the South Terminal expansion project, since Calatrava et all have withdrawn from from this. They will have their work cut out for them, especially to deliver the train terminal, which is supposed to be ready by 2014. That's not a lot of time at all for a project such as this, and budget contraints will surely factor into what will ultimately be developed.

And the ever continuing saga of will UA, or WN finally get tired of DEN, and go away, or will F9, or especially ZK, even be around in a couple of months to worry about?


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

Quoting point2point (Thread starter):

And is this bye-bye to this?

I hope so. It's completely out of place and scale compared to the main terminal, it masks it from the approach by car or train. Bad architecture, masking the facade of a notably landmark building. A train station should be efficient and all, which I assume this will be, but should integrate stylistically to the main terminal, and not overpower the main point of the facility: air travel.

-Rampart


User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1572 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 4562 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 3):
I hope so. It's completely out of place and scale compared to the main terminal, it masks it from the approach by car or train. Bad architecture, masking the facade of a notably landmark building. A train station should be efficient and all, which I assume this will be, but should integrate stylistically to the main terminal, and not overpower the main point of the facility: air travel.

Wasn't that a hotel too and not just a train station?



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 4525 times:

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 4):
Wasn't that a hotel too and not just a train station?

I think that's right, others more acquainted with the project can confirm. Either way, I wasn't fond of how it overpowers the central terminal.

-Rampart


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 5 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 4):
Wasn't that a hotel too and not just a train station?

The phrasing per the article is "for the train station and other core elements of the construction project." I think that it probably does include the hotel, but I think that the train station is a big priority now, as time is running out to get that done.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 5 hours ago) and read 4311 times:
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Quoting point2point (Thread starter):
Okay, big news is that Santiago Calatrava and Festina Lente have withdrawn from the Denver South Terminal Project.

It happens. The original architect of the Sydney Opera House, Jorn Utzon, was sacked because the bureaucrats didn't want to spend the money.

Politics were involved, too. The hall designed for grand opera was switched to be a concert hall and the smaller concert hall was switched to grand opera - which means that grand opera can't be staged there. The orchestra pit isn't big enough and stage hands have to catch the ballet dancers as they come off stage to stop them smashing into the side wall.

Ironically, ten years ago, the Opera House board reach a reconciliation with Utzon.

It remains one of the great buildings of the 20th century but it could have been one of the great buildings of all time.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinejgrantco From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 4194 times:

Quite a few months ago DIA announced a design change to remove a few of the top floors of the hotel. The photo above does not show that change. Also included were some design changes to the commuter rail bridges along Pena Blvd. There were a few other changes announced over the past months to get the costs back down. I would suppose Calatrava was unhappy so walked away. Time will tell if the legal issues cause problems. Bottom line... Calatrava = budget busting.

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4024 times:

Quoting jgrantco (Reply 8):

Quite a few months ago DIA announced a design change to remove a few of the top floors of the hotel. The photo above does not show that change. Also included were some design changes to the commuter rail bridges along Pena Blvd. There were a few other changes announced over the past months to get the costs back down. I would suppose Calatrava was unhappy so walked away. Time will tell if the legal issues cause problems. Bottom line... Calatrava = budget busting.

Yes, I do recall changes along these lines as well, but thus far, no pics or even visualizations of these that I can recall seeing anywhere. It would be nice to have something some sort of visualizations to see of what the development (including bridge) is going to look like, but I'm wondering if the planners are even that far along. They did have a budget of $500M, and with Calatrava taking his cut thus far, it still leaves $487M in the kitty, and I think that the public would at least get to see where the airport planners are and what they have in mind for this expansion.

Otherwise, I do believe DEN management is doing a good job with keeping three major airlines hubbing there (and let's not forget ZK) and keeping airfares fairly low, but hopefully delivering the volume needed to make the airlines somewhat happy. And keeping lots of full planes going in and out to many destinations will keep the costs per enplaned passenger down as well.

Now if they could get out some visualizations somewhat soon for the expansion (I'm thinking that hopefully they do have some) it would look like they aren't sleeping on the job here. And maybe getting a couple of more international carriers/routes would be icing on the cake.

 


User currently offlinejgrantco From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3687 times:

Pretty good Denver Post article today with detailed time line and current status.

"Denver officials grapple with DIA designs after Santiago Calatrava's exit"

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_18972016


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

Quoting jgrantco (Reply 10):
Pretty good Denver Post article today with detailed time line and current status.

"Denver officials grapple with DIA designs after Santiago Calatrava's exit"

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_18972016

Thank you for this. Good read.

I loved the video at the end of the article. I personally would like to see as much of it as possible remain (including the bridge, which is a goner at this point, but...) because of the openess and all of the "glowing whiteness" that I get a sense of with this design.

I know that there are some detractors with this design, and I respect and value all of their opinions. My personal opinion is that this is a fantastic conceptualization for the South Terminal, and my only criticism would be that the hotel is a bit too high. Maybe flatten it out and widen it a bit, because I think that the roof-line of the main terminal needs to remain the prominent focal point of the airport.

I also found on a local blog a pic of downtown Denver with DIA in the background. This pic was taken from Green Mountain, a local subdivision just in the foothills in the suburbs here. I'm able to post it with pablosan's permission, who took the picture. So this is the answer to those critics that say DEN is too far from downtown, so as you can see, it's right there just behind it (lol). Also notice the old Stapleton Airport control tower on the very far left, which the city chose to preserve.




Thanks for a great pic pablosan!

Enjoy


User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3555 times:

That is one hell of a lens. On a website related around aviation photography, This ought to be included! Just think how much more awesome this would be with Calatrava's South Terminal and bridge in the picture!

User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 11):

I loved the video at the end of the article. I personally would like to see as much of it as possible remain (including the bridge, which is a goner at this point, but...) because of the openess and all of the "glowing whiteness" that I get a sense of with this design.

This confirms my fears. I like Calatrava's designs, but this totally usurps the great architecture of the main terminal. The original terminal is not even visible on approach by train or Pena Blvd.

The bridge is cool, and distinct and far enough away to not detract. The rest is overblown architectural conceit. "Look at me! I'm a Calatrava Building! Nothing else matters before or after!

What if someone planned an immense, overwhelming, out of scale transit stop and hotel at the entrance to the Statue of Liberty or Gateway Arch?

It's supposed to be the airline gateway to Colorado and the Rocky Mountains, with an onsite hotel and rail stop. Not a grand hotel and train palace that happens to be surrounded by runways.

-Rampart


User currently offlinejgrantco From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3213 times:

great photo pablosan. you can even see interior detail of the convention center. yes, flatten out the wings and the design will be perfect and the surrounding views from the structure to the south will be great.

User currently offlineF9Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 703 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3186 times:

Well, the train station looks fine. The problem is that the hotel completely overwhelms the main terminal. They need to build something lower that doesn't obstruct the view of the main terminal from the south.

User currently offlinedenverdanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

As far as the design of the hotel goes, I liked it. For the people saying it obstructs the view of terminal, I don't believe it would. It does in the design picture because that is the angle the architect chose, which was a poor one. When you approach the airport, you can see the terminal tent just fine from the sides and from the approaching departure and arrival lanes. You don't really approach the terminal from the view shown. The East terminal lanes give you a good view of the tent from the side. Another thing is that the real experience of the terminal is from the inside, with all the natural light.

I don't really support what Kim Day is attempting with the airport. I don't believe there was a need for an expensive fancy bridge. I think the sticker shock from that and the hotel/train station was bad for the project. I don't really like her idea of making the terminal sterile so that more shopping can be added for connecting passengers. I think they should keep to very basic improvements--a basic hotel and train station, with an expanded terminal.

Quoting point2point (Reply 11):
Also notice the old Stapleton Airport control tower on the very far left, which the city chose to preserve.

It's a really cool and interesting photo, thanks. However, that's just the tower at the current airport and not the Stapleton one. The Stapleton tower would be in the middle right of the photo, amongst the city--not in the middle of the plains. It's probably obstructed by the downtown buildings on the right.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2998 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 13):
Not a grand hotel and train palace that happens to be surrounded by runways.

I think the idea is to put a luxurious hotel there, and be able to charge a premium to those who are guests there. There are a few other run-of-the-mill hotels (Holiday Inn, Embassy Suites, etc) on the airport property that are a few miles from the terminal. I believe that the idea is to treat the one by the terminal much differently and exquisitely. And I like your term "train palace."  

Also, when I refer to the "openess and all of the glowing whiteness" I'm thinking more in terms of the inside of the new terminal, rather than the outside.

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
It remains one of the great buildings of the 20th century but it could have been one of the great buildings of all time.

If the airport with the South Terminal expansion gets put on the level of the Sydney Opera House, I'll be very happy. But I also think that the topline here is pretty iconic in itself...



Quoting mhkansan (Reply 12):
That is one hell of a lens.

Yep.....Focal length: 120mm. This was shot with a Nikon Coolpix P100

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 12):
On a website related around aviation photography, This ought to be included!

Yep, I'll agree with that.

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 16):
It's a really cool and interesting photo, thanks. However, that's just the tower at the current airport and not the Stapleton one. The Stapleton tower would be in the middle right of the photo, amongst the city--not in the middle of the plains. It's probably obstructed by the downtown buildings on the right.

You may be correct. I marked it off and reposted this




I thought A was the Stapleton Tower, and thought B the new DIA Tower. However, maybe A is the new DIA Tower, and B is the old Stapleton Tower?

I'm not absolutely sure but I believe that C represent the current hotels on the airport property, there's an Embassy, Hyatt, Courtyards, etc., which I believe these are.

D, for everyone, is the Denver Center for the Performing Arts, which according to their website "is the largest performing arts complex under one roof, and the second-largest center [after Lincoln Center in NYC] of its kind in terms of number of venues and seating capacity."

And E is the Convention Center.

Now for some reference. After drawing lines on Google Earth, it is approximately 18 straight miles (21 kilomters) or 21 miles driving from Points D & E to Jeppesen Terminal. The DIA Tower is about 4240 Feet (1.3 kilometers) from the north end of Jeppeson Terminal. And it is approximately 6 miles from Jeppesen Terminal to where the current hotels on the DIA property are.

Really a good photo, but I like it best because DEN just sits almost in surreality there, right into the skyline.


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2984 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 17):
I thought A was the Stapleton Tower, and thought B the new DIA Tower. However, maybe A is the new DIA Tower, and B is the old Stapleton Tower?

I think that "A" is the DIA tower, and "B" is the local control tower on Concourse B. Old Stapleton property is actually much closer in your photograph. That distinctive trapezoidal hotel, I think on Quebec St. (?), is visible between the Republic Plaza and Wells Fargo towers, and the open area just beyond and to the north would have been one of the N-S runways. The old tower may well be behind Wells Fargo or just to the right. But I do agree, this is an excellent picture!

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 16):

I don't really support what Kim Day is attempting with the airport. I don't believe there was a need for an expensive fancy bridge. I think the sticker shock from that and the hotel/train station was bad for the project. I don't really like her idea of making the terminal sterile so that more shopping can be added for connecting passengers. I think they should keep to very basic improvements--a basic hotel and train station, with an expanded terminal.

I agree with you. The removal of the beautiful public space under the "tent' would be a huge loss. Who is going to shop? People are going to rush off to their gates anyhow. Few from the concourses would venture back to the terminal for shopping. Has airport shopping become such an important revenue source? The lack of patronage to the stores in the main terminal seems to indicate otherwise. They always seem empty to me.

-Rampart


User currently offlinedenverdanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

Well, nice job with the arrows. I looked at on google earth and drew a line from the point of view out towards the airport. There's just no way that A or B are the Stapleton tower. A is the major tower at the airport, while B is one of the minor ones. The concourses, or one of them, does have a minor tower, so, that is what B is. Stapleton would be roughly below where the letter E is, but probably a little more to the right. We're looking Northeast in the photo. The area around Stapleton has been redeveloped and there are neighborhoods all around Stapleton. So, it can't be all the way out on the plains with nothing around it like A and B. This is a recent photo, as you can see all the new hotels buildings on 15th, just blocks from the convention center. The right arrow of C is the administrative building at the airport, which is greenish/blue glass. The left arrow may be where the bridge to Concourse A terminates. B is the mini tower on one of the concourses, I think concourse B. It's a truly huge airport. The white building between the tall cash register building on the far right and the tall white rectangular building does look like the stepped hotel at the old Stapleton site. I think that whole mess of white running from left to right in the middle of the pic surrounded by green is the industrial area around I-70 and the airport.

User currently offlinedenverdanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2971 times:

Guess rampart beat me to what I wanted to say. Thanks again for sharing the great pic.

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2915 times:

I would have to say the management has certainly done something right. To keep three airlines as hubs there is nothing short of amazing. They clearly do a great job and DEN does have one fantastic terminal and airport for connecting. It has been DEN grandiose and huge thinking and commitment that got them the three airline hub they have today

Has DEN released any videos to show what the airport trains will look like?
For fun SLC has one for the airport station and one for the transfer from light rail to real trains. Granted its not nearly as grandiose as DEN but its also light rail to the airport not a real train like DEN will be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhQPQY_3_yM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYfOWEgq7hQ


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2838 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 11):
Also notice the old Stapleton Airport control tower on the very far left, which the city chose to preserve.
Quoting rampart (Reply 18):
I think that "A" is the DIA tower, and "B" is the local control tower on Concourse B.
Quoting denverdanny (Reply 19):
There's just no way that A or B are the Stapleton tower

Okay, I've stood corrected before, and I stand corrected now. However, I believe that A is the Denver County Jail (lol) because they have a tower similar to the one in the pic (just google images - Denver County Jail), and the address of that is 10500 East Smith Road, so that would make sense. B, however, could be the control tower for DIA. Even though it's only about a mile from the Jeppesen Terminal, I think somehow this picture definitely plays with dimensions, so.... And the old Stapleton Control Tower is probably hidden behind the tall group of buildings between B and C.

And I believe that C right arrow is the airport administration building, and that C left is the group of hotels on the airport property. I think....

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 21):
I would have to say the management has certainly done something right. To keep three airlines as hubs there is nothing short of amazing.

With this respect, I don't think there is better airport management anywhere to be found. The burning question is how long can (or will) it last? My personal feelings are DEN can support this, and maybe even a bit more, but who knows and who am I to say?

The management has also lowered the Cost per Enplaned Passenger in 2010 to $11.77 from $12.72 in 2009. DEN's CPEs here were at a high of $16.85 when first opened in 1995 to a low of $10.69 in 2007. Wonder how much the South Terminal, etc, will increase these costs, although probably nowhere near the likes of ORD, LAX, MIA, (let's hope) etc. But they'll probably never get as low as CLT, ATL or LAS.

http://business.flydenver.com/info/n...s/wingtips/2011SeptemberLarge.html

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 21):
Has DEN released any videos to show what the airport trains will look like?
For fun SLC has one for the airport station and one for the transfer from light rail to real trains. Granted its not nearly as grandiose as DEN but its also light rail to the airport not a real train like DEN will be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhQPQY_3_yM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYfOWEgq7hQ

Here is a sight that shows a video of the East Side Line.

http://www.rtd-fastracks.com/ec_4

I don't think that they actually decided on the 'style' of what the trains will look like, and last thing I know here is that they are still deciding among a few choices.

After watching the video of SLC, I must say, (simply as an opinion, no better or worse) that the SLC approach to their train station is about a thousand times simpler than that of DEN. But then again -

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 21):
It has been DEN grandiose and huge thinking and commitment that got them the three airline hub they have today


  

And just as an FYI, the Boyd Group published some stats about WN yesterday, and the tables show that it has grown DEN from nothing in this 10-year time frame to the fifth busiest airport in their system, behind LAS, MDW, PHX, and BWI, with nearly 7M passengers flowing thru DEN in Q1/11. It also shows DEN with the lowest ticket yield of its top ten airports. Not really at all good in this respect.

http://www.aviationplanning.com/AviationDataFlash.htm


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 20):
Guess rampart beat me to what I wanted to say. Thanks again for sharing the great pic.

great minds and all that.   Good to know that my memory is still competent.

-Rampart


User currently offlinePoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2673 times:

Borrowed from another thread

2011 S.C.A.S.D Federal Grants Awarded (by LAXintl Sep 27 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
o Santa Rosa, CA
Establishment of airports first non West Coast air-service with seasonal link to Denver on Frontier.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
o South Bend, IN
Revenue guarantee and marketing support for a Western national hub link via Frontier Airlines service to Denver.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
o Toledo, OH
Revenue guarantees for establishment of service to a second national-hub in Western US via Frontier service to Denver.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
o Harrisburg, PA
Revenue and marketing support for Western US air-service link. Most likely Frontier Airline to Denver.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
o San Angelo, TX
Revenue guarantees and marking support to foster competitive air-service with link to second national hub of Houston or Denver on United.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
o Green Bay, WI
Incentives for daily year-round services to a Western national hub. Either support existing seasonal/less than daily Frontier service, or alternatively new link to Dallas on American Eagle.

Now how many of these will turn into actual routes?


Missed out on


CA ….. ACV ….. 480K ….. 190K ….. UA ………. DEN

CA ….. SMX ….. 490K ….. 240K ….. UA ………. DEN

KS ….. FOE ….. 550K ….. 75K ….. UA ………. DEN

ND ….. GFK ….. 300K ….. 441K ….. UA ………. DEN

UT ….. OGD ….. 600K ….. 400K ….. F9 ………. DEN, LAX

WY ….. CPR ….. 500K ….. 350K ….. F9 ………. DEN


Well, 6 out of 12, not too bad considering, and it seems that F9 did much better than UA here.

[Edited 2011-09-28 09:47:06]

25 Point2point : An update 2011 S.C.A.S.D Federal Grants Awarded (by LAXintl Sep 27 2011 in Civil Aviation) So this is now 7 out of 12, and will the $741K available e
26 F9Fan : A is the main tower, which is by the C concourse. B is the small tower on the B concurse. C is the tower on the A concurse (north) and the airport ad
27 Post contains links and images Point2point : So now DL announces that it will become the fifth wheel on DEN/LAX behind UA, AA, WN, and F9. DL To Start LAX-DEN (by FL787 Oct 3 2011 in Civil Aviati
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