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IAG Closer To Buying EI?  
User currently offlineblueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 3040 posts, RR: 23
Posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9233 times:

Quote:

"A merger between Aer Lingus and British Airways -- now headed by former Aer Lingus boss Willie Walsh -- was today being considered a real possibility by industry analysts as the Government considers selling off its stake in Aer Lingus.

The Cabinet was today due to consider proposals to sell its 25pc stake in the airline along with other State assets.

But the willingness by Aer Lingus' other major shareholder, Ryanair, to sell its share is fuelling talk of an Aer Lingus/British Airways merger.

Ryanair, which twice mounted bids to take over the national airline, said it was open to selling its share of just under 30pc."

Ryanair clears the way for BA to take over Aer Lingus

All the fun of the Heathrow slots...

Rgds


So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11840 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9005 times:

It makes sense. At a national level, Ireland's most important strategic relationship with with the U.K. for obvious geographic, cultural and economic reasons. Thus, if all else could be worked out, Aer Lingus tying up with BA (as they already have been, to a lesser extent, for years) seems logical.

BA would no doubt love getting access to more Heathrow slots, although I'd imagine the Irish government would probably put some sort of a stipulation on the deal that some number of Heathrow slots would have to stay on Ireland service into the future - a stipulation I'm sure BA would probably be willing to agree to.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8851 times:

Interesting news. I have a feeling BA would love to get back into the Irish market. BA of course codeshare on a lot of the the Irish UK traffic for connecting flights, so EI is sort of a feeder for BA euro and longhaul flights.

Cant wait to see how this plays out


User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8821 times:

Although the Irish Government would indeed want assurances that links between the UK and Ireland will be maintained, there would still be a benefit in pooling arrival/departure slots between IAG members and reallocating slots as required to suit the schedules of IAG members.

Interesting times ahead!


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11840 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8546 times:

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 3):
Although the Irish Government would indeed want assurances that links between the UK and Ireland will be maintained, there would still be a benefit in pooling arrival/departure slots between IAG members and reallocating slots as required to suit the schedules of IAG members.

Exactly - I'm sure that BA would love to have the flexibility to co-mingle the EI slots with the existing BA/IB ones, plus even AA's pool, too. Given that flexibility, and access to one of the largest single chunks of precious LHR slots, I'm sure BA would be more than happy to make some sort of assurances to maintain access to DUB/SNN/ORK/BFS, at certain frequencies, etc.


User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8523 times:

Quoting blueshamu330s (Thread starter):
A merger between Aer Lingus and British Airways

Hmmm, i don't think a merger is on the cards. IAG may buy the government stake in EI but a merger? I think not.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7693 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8344 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 5):
Hmmm, i don't think a merger is on the cards. IAG may buy the government stake in EI but a merger? I think not.

What is your reasoning?

On the positive side:

There are no competition concerns. BA does not fly to either Ireland or Northern Ireland. There is a single daily flight by Iberia Regional between MAD and DUB.

Under the IAG umbrella EI could retain its distinct brand as per BA and IB.

Becoming a oneworld member (again) is hardly going to have any unfavourable impact.

Pooling EI's LHR slots (332 per week) with those of BA (4,040), IB (154) and AA (236) to give each airline the best possible slot timing for each of its flights will benefit all four airlines' passengers

Cost savings on fleet renewal and expansion would be significant.

Cost savings on all other purchases through group buying.

EI could legally remain an Irish airline within the IAG group structure.

Maintenance reduced in cost and more flexible

IAG CEO is an Irish national

IAG CEO intimately knows EI operations

Cannot think of any negatives except that if EI have any hidden problems the IAG CEO probably knows what they are. But if there are any negatives I will be interested to hear them!


User currently offlineAA787 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 611 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8244 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 6):
What is your reasoning?

He is saying that he would expect BA to buy EI, but would rule out the two of them merging (a la DL and NW).

The Irish government would never let their airline be renamed British Airways.



ET In NYC
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8213 times:

Quoting AA787 (Reply 7):
The Irish government would never let their airline be renamed British Airways.

Got to agree there as well. Better to keep the name and merge it under the IAG bracket then merge it with BA and loose the history of the airline. Also keeps Ireland with a national airline


User currently offlineEagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1880 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8164 times:
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I'll add to this by saying that EI is currently a profitable airline that is still in the midst of a cost saving program that aims to have ASK costs close to those of EasyJet by the end of the year. So in that sense a better bargain than poor old Bmi at the moment.

IAG may also be interested in buying EI as a defensive measure. STAR (in the guise of LH) may be interested in EI to try to increase their footprint in LHR while also directing some of the Irish originating pax away from connecting onwards with BA at LHR. BA admitted that 10% of their feed is from Ireland (However no clarification on whether this is the huge island or just the Republic.)

At the same time EI may be seen as unattractive if they don't really offer anything to another airline except a large cost to purchase in the current economic climate, as well as the spectre of having FR as a competitor on over 50% of their routes.


User currently offlineflythere From Hong Kong, joined May 2010, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8012 times:

Seems that IAG really keen on getting its flag on the forefront of the Atlantic coast.

The saturation of LHR means that IAG may have to look to DUB and MAD for another organic growth period.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7955 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 6):

This all true, little overlap of routes at all. IB have two and some periods even 3 daily flights to DUB though, but only certain months. EI are far, far bigger on Ireland- Spain with up an average of maybe 12 flights per day.

EI can still merge with BA, and keep the brand, like IB.

A good fit in my opinion, Star alliance would be also, but BA and EI know each other quite well.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7587 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 11):
but BA and EI know each other quite well.

Helps even more that WW works for IAG, he knows both BA and EI very well, having been CEO of them both  


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7543 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 12):

Indeed... It's all a bit too bloody cozy if you ask me!  

EI does offer BA a viable mini hub in DUB for TA pax if that was it's wish (especially given a constrained LHR), and EI can offer BA eastbound pax.

It's probably as good a match as any really. It helps that the two have a long, historical relationship.

Bring it on I say!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12565 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7527 times:

I think there is a lot to recommend it; as far as fleets are concerned, I think a lot can be achieved. For one thing, EI has early slots for A350s and while CM (its current CEO), has said it is taking these, he has said they are too big; it wouldn't surprise me if these slots were sold to BA (which is known to be interested in the A350), in return for some of BA's 787 slots (is the 788 really a suitable aircraft for BA?)

Another factor is that DUB can work very well as a hub for UK regional centres; BA doesn't want connection traffic through LHR from regional centres, but it would like to reduce the number of pax going via CDG, AMS, FRA etc; investment in a Dublin hub would go a long way towards achieving this. EI will be bringing in a 100 seat regional jet at some stage and this will help the expansion of the t/a network.


User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7424 times:

If IAG acquired a majority stake in EI, would that be the end of the agreements with JetBlue and United? and possible replacement with links with AA?

User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7362 times:

Quoting richardw (Reply 15):
If IAG acquired a majority stake in EI, would that be the end of the agreements with JetBlue and United? and possible replacement with links with AA?

AA already have a good relationship with B6, so I cant see why EI would stop if IAG took over. I could see the UA/EI thing ending though.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7347 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 16):

Agreed on both counts.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinerichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7325 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 16):
AA already have a good relationship with B6, so I cant see why EI would stop if IAG took over

Yes. Some AA flights may interline with EI in the USA in addition to B6 flights perhaps, If IAG took over EI.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7290 times:

Quoting richardw (Reply 18):
Yes. Some AA flights may interline with EI in the USA in addition to B6 flights perhaps, If IAG took over EI.

Maybe?
It helps EI fly to the main East coast hubs for Oneworld (And B6) JFK ORD and BOS so I could see a lot of potential for EI to get their flight number on even more services maybe?


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6660 times:
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IAG buying Aer Lingus makes lots of sense with the LHR connections to Ireland. The idea of feed UK regional cities to Ireland also makes lots of sense, this would create tons of long haul feed in DUB. IAG could turn DUB into another hub much bigger then EI has on its own with flights beyond JFK, ORD and BOS. Why has Toronto never been flown by EI ? Now it just might.

EI should have a full omni directional schedule from DUB to Sao Paulo, LAX, SFO , DFW, NRT, HKG, SIN, JNB and CPT should be on the Aer Lingus schedule. EI should have 30 long haul jets, A350-900 would be good or 787-9 even better. IT may just be time for terminal 3 in DUB even though T2 just opened.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11840 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6620 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
IAG buying Aer Lingus makes lots of sense with the LHR connections to Ireland. The idea of feed UK regional cities to Ireland also makes lots of sense, this would create tons of long haul feed in DUB. IAG could turn DUB into another hub much bigger then EI has on its own with flights beyond JFK, ORD and BOS. Why has Toronto never been flown by EI ? Now it just might.

EI should have a full omni directional schedule from DUB to Sao Paulo, LAX, SFO , DFW, NRT, HKG, SIN, JNB and CPT should be on the Aer Lingus schedule. EI should have 30 long haul jets, A350-900 would be good or 787-9 even better. IT may just be time for terminal 3 in DUB even though T2 just opened.

That will never happen. DUB never could, nor never would, support a hub anywhere near the size of what you are describing.

As others have mentioned, the value of Aer Lingus to IAG would be to bolster and secure additional feed into LHR, along with additional LHR slots, and also to use DUB as a perfect hub for connecting the U.K. regions with North America. If - hypothetically - Aer Lingus were to join oneworld, I suspect the biggest growth you'd see in terms of new long haul flying out of DUB would be MIA and maybe - maybe - LAX.

I simply do not see DUB ever realistically supporting regular, nonstop scheduled flights to Brazil, Japan, Africa or anywhere in Asia besides maybe - maybe - HKG in a long, long time. Aer Lingus/IAG connections from DUB heading east could be perfectly well served over LHR, along with of course the flights to AUH (and now DXB) on competitors. That is just about all the market needs.

Remember: Ireland is a tiny country. A relatively wealthy country by global standards, yes (even after the financial collapse), and a country with huge inbound tourism, yes, but a tiny country still.


User currently onlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6505 times:

Quoting richardw (Reply 15):
If IAG acquired a majority stake in EI, would that be the end of the agreements with JetBlue and United? and possible replacement with links with AA?
Quoting lhr380 (Reply 19):

Maybe?
It helps EI fly to the main East coast hubs for Oneworld (And B6) JFK ORD and BOS so I could see a lot of potential for EI to get their flight number on even more services maybe?

Also, BA has looked into purchasing a stake into B6 as well (sorry I dont' have a link).



"Up the Irons!"
User currently onlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6505 times:

One question arises, when mentioning the possibility of EI joining IAG. What non-DUB routes would be a good candidate for EI to contract on in a similiar way to the IAD-MAD route?

Also what percentage of EI shares are self-owned?

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 16):
Quoting richardw (Reply 15):
If IAG acquired a majority stake in EI, would that be the end of the agreements with JetBlue and United? and possible replacement with links with AA?

I severely doubt the agreement with B6 will end with and IAG purchase of EI. If anything, it brings B6 one more carrier closer to OW. From everything I read, the UA partnership was scheduled to end this year anyway.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineEI2KSEA From Ireland, joined Jul 2004, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6466 times:

I would love to think of an IAG takeover as heralding a great period of expansion for EI, however I believe its very much a strategic defensive move and not so much else (IF it occurs). I personally would prefer LH in a takeover scenario as I think DUB and EI would benefit much more in the long run than in the BA/IB -IAG mix.

I think EI's main value to IAG can be summarized as the following.

- LHR slots slots and more slots with the opportunities that brings for BA.
- Securing these slots and not letting them get into anybody else's hands, again important for BA.
- Securing the current feed by EI at LHR, again for BA.

Lesser value may be derived from what EI offers outside of LHR but these are far less compelling arguments on face value than those mentioned above;

- Catering to traffic from the UK regions to the US currently under-served by IAG (BA has been quite happy to allow this situation occur).
- Catering for low yield EU-US transfer passengers not served by BA at LHR currently (Similar to the UK regions, does IAG even care about this?).

Regardless, the next few months will be interesting if this goes further. I would expect FR to mount an aggressive new onslaught against EI as soon as any shareholding of theirs is offloaded. It wont be an easy road for any prospective buying as regards the Irish domestic market anyways.



Next Flight: DUB-BOS (EI), BOS-DEN-PDX (SWA), SEA-BOS (AS)
25 jfk777 : Yes Ireland is small with a huge diaspera in Australia, some South Africa and North America. I have always been dissappointed thay EI is not " all th
26 FlyCaledonian : Argh! Why do so many people assume that IAG = BA? International Airlines Group, headed by former BA CEO Willie Walsh, is the owner of both BA and IB.
27 lhr380 : Slots would come from EI of course, but where would the aircraft come from?
28 vhtje : For the same reason people think AF/KLM = AF Back on topic: how soon would any movement on this likely be? Are we talking days or weeks?
29 kaitak : The Irish govt has said that any share sale would not come until 2012, so we'll be waiting quite a while. Also, bear in mind that it's not just the I
30 commavia : But that's the thing - it really is about "all that it can be." Ireland is a tiny country - the market is not nearly large enough to support much lar
31 speedbird9 : I suppose its because its currently run by a former BA boss or perhaps because the majority of posts who make the mistake are British(UK) or American
32 LHRFlyer : I think it would be largely or wholly a cash deal rather than a share swap. The Irish Government would want the cash to pay down debt and IAG would p
33 Eagleboy : FR will want to maximise their profit in this matter, but at the same time I am sure they will be canny enough to weight up what any prospective buye
34 AmricanShamrok : SNN-LHR is an important link for both EI and BA. Up to a few years ago there were 4 daily rotations on the route and it feeds the BA network well, ju
35 shamrock604 : The Shannon route is a busy and succesful one. The only reason it was axed before was to use the slots for a BFS service to support the opening of a
36 jfk777 : Europe is a continent full of small rich countries whose airlines fly to Asia, South Africa, Brazil and east and west coast of the USA. KLM or SWISS
37 shamrock604 : That geographic advantage only applies to EU/US traffic. It's not going help EU/Asia or Africa.
38 EuroWings : Dublin is a well-placed transit airport in geographical terms for flights from much of Europe (especially the UK) to the US/Canada. Perhaps that shoul
39 shamrock604 : They are doing that now with Aerlingus Regional from the UK. It has been succesful so far, but needs to be expanded to support transatlantic route gr
40 jfk777 : Really, I thought it applied to only people going from Glasgow to Caracas. If you are going to make a statement like that know your geography, please
41 HELyes : Add AY and vola, a large part of Asia gets covered. I wouldn't be surprised if both EI and AY join IAG.
42 shamrock604 : Get off your high horse please. I know my bloody geography, I don't need lectures from you on the subject! Look, I admire the passion to see DUB and
43 Eagleboy : At present EI say that 34% of their T/A load are transfers. With their strong Euro network they can offer convenient connections for pax from Spain/F
44 jfk777 : Aer Lingus could also be purchased by Virgin Atlantic for feed into its LHR intercontinental network. SRB would love to add EI's slots to his.
45 shamrock604 : Another rumour in the Irish press today is Easyjet...... I think I'd prefer BA, thanks! Not that there is anything wrong with Easyjet, but there's mo
46 Post contains images EuroWings : easyJet does seem like an odd suggestion, what would they gain through buying EI? I hardly think they are interested in transatlantic services! Altho
47 shamrock604 : The main thrust of the article was that they would do it to basically piss Ryanair off. Pretty lame reason to take an airline with a totally differen
48 LHRFlyer : Stelios would not let this happen. He's been very vocal of late that easyJet should focus on profitability not growth and should curb its expansion p
49 VV701 : BA has one 320 from its last order left to be delivered (next January). It has also been announced that IB have firmed up five Airbus single-aisle ai
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