Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
AA Down To 1 Daily MIA-EWR  
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4520 posts, RR: 7
Posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10790 times:

This is just weird. I was looking through the timetable and noticed that AA is going down from the 3 daily MIA-EWR-MIA flights to just one on some days of the week this month.

What doesn't make sense is how the flights are timed, since all flights between these 2 cities are flown MIA-EWR-MIA (i.e. the plane comes up from Miami and turns around in EWR and heads right back to Miami).

Sept 20th:

12:35pm MIA 3:40pm EWR AA #692 757
1:59p EWR 4:59pm MIA AA #1559 757

So... where does the 757 from AA #692 go once it gets to EWR? And where does the 757 that operates AA #1559 come from???

68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10740 times:

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
So... where does the 757 from AA #692 go once it gets to EWR? And where does the 757 that operates AA #1559 come from???

Perhaps those A/C are routed through DFW or ORD on those single flight days, rather than routed as a MIA turn.



United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4520 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10718 times:

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 1):
Perhaps those A/C are routed through DFW or ORD on those single flight days, rather than routed as a MIA turn.

Yeah, that was the first thing I checked but nope.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6793 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10697 times:

Quoting N62NA (Thread starter):
So... where does the 757 from AA #692 go once it gets to EWR? And where does the 757 that operates AA #1559 come from???

AA is reducing a bunch of capacity by day-of-week, so it may be as simple as the previous night's terminator staying at EWR to operate AA 1559, while the 757 used for AA 692 may also park overnight.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10612 times:

I notice that AA has an EWR-LAX flight that would coincide with those times, but its on a 738.

As unlikely as this would seem, I am guessing that 757 may well be an EWR RON. ORD is pretty much all MQ now, and DFW is down to 4X M80s, and LAX is a single 738. There doesn't seem to be any other AA flights in EWR.


User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10559 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 3):
AA is reducing a bunch of capacity by day-of-week, so it may be as simple as the previous night's terminator staying at EWR to operate AA 1559, while the 757 used for AA 692 may also park overnight.

Indeed. #692 arrives in EWR at 3:40pm and heads back to MIA as #1559 the day after departing at 1:59pm.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 10236 times:

A bit off topic, but has CO/UA become so dominant at EWR that its major competitors are seeing little traffic to their hubs? Granted, AA puts its New York emphasis at LGA and JFK, but there are a lot of people who need to go to and from the New Jersey part of the Tri-State area. A lot of companies, for various reasons, have decided to put many of their employees in places like Ft. Lee, Secaucus, and Parsippany.

User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3546 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 10232 times:

I'll be the first to rattle the cage and get the AA lovers on my back . . .

What the heck is going on with AA at EWR? They were the #2 airline there up until recently (mid 2000s).

EWR-Florida should work, especially with a major cornerstone hub on one end and a cornerstone city on the other


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 10185 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 6):
A bit off topic, but has CO/UA become so dominant at EWR that its major competitors are seeing little traffic to their hubs? Granted, AA puts its New York emphasis at LGA and JFK, but there are a lot of people who need to go to and from the New Jersey part of the Tri-State area. A lot of companies, for various reasons, have decided to put many of their employees in places like Ft. Lee, Secaucus, and Parsippany.

And because of the CO/UA hub at EWR, those companies are likely to have their corporate contracts with UA/CO if they aren't flying private jets out of TEB. Even if other airlines beefed up service to their hubs, the NJ companies are likely to stick with UA/CO because of all the NS out of the hubs. AA and DL both know this, which is why they are focusing NYC operations at LGA/JFK and focusing on the corporate contracts of the Manhattan based companies rather than the NJ based ones.

That being said though, 12 daily flights on AA seems like a joke at an airport like EWR. And ORD is almost all MQ now. Just shows you how strong UA/CO is on both ends.


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4520 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 10172 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
What the heck is going on with AA at EWR? They were the #2 airline there up until recently (mid 2000s).

They view EWR as some backwater outpost. Minimal flights to DFW. Minimal flights to MIA. Minimal flights to ORD (and on RJs!). One flight to LAX (and on a 738!). This view of EWR really isn't anything new. All the legacies have, with the exception of CO (and now, via acquisition, UA), viewed EWR this way for decades.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
EWR-Florida should work, especially with a major cornerstone hub on one end and a cornerstone city on the other

Well, they will supposedly be back to 3x daily in a month or two from now after the "slow season." According to their seat maps (yes I know, only shows ASSIGNED seats), the flights are always full or close to full.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5498 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10176 times:

Is this just a seasonal reduction? Sept-Oct-Nov are generally the worst months for Florida traffic. SoAm also picks up in Dec.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10108 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 10):
Is this just a seasonal reduction? Sept-Oct-Nov are generally the worst months for Florida traffic. SoAm also picks up in Dec.

That is accurate and also applies to other flights originating at MIA during the week. For example, MIA-BOG now operates 10x weekly and MIA-CLO now operates 4x weekly. MIA-EWR will revert back to 3x daily beginning on November 17th.


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4520 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10022 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 11):
That is accurate and also applies to other flights originating at MIA during the week.

What's interesting is that AA cuts flights by 66% during a few weekdays on MIA-EWR and nothing close to that at MIA-LGA/JFK.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3546 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9805 times:

"They view EWR as some backwater outpost."

But I am not sure why. I guess it is picking your battles. Both DL and AA (and even UA) were pretty sizeable at EWR up until 10 years ago.

Yes, CO got bigger and pushed them out. On the other hand, it is really constant cutting of capacity plus the CO hub that did this


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9768 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 12):
What's interesting is that AA cuts flights by 66% during a few weekdays on MIA-EWR and nothing close to that at MIA-LGA/JFK.

Because AA is much stronger at LGA/JFK! This isn't rocket science!


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4520 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9673 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):

Because AA is much stronger at LGA/JFK! This isn't rocket science!

Of course. I wrote that to put a fine point on the issue that AA considers EWR (and the state on the west side of the Hudson River) unimportant.

[Edited 2011-09-14 12:26:31]

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6793 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9634 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
EWR-Florida should work, especially with a major cornerstone hub on one end and a cornerstone city on the other

Except that the overlap between traffic using EWR and LGA/JFK is somewhat limited. Also, CO has built up its non-stops to Latin America and the Caribbean from EWR, so the demand for connections via MIA has been impacted.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9532 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 15):
I wrote that to put a fine point on the issue that AA considers EWR (and the state on the west side of the Hudson River) unimportant.

I don't know why everyone needs to make this so melodramatic.

It's not that AA views EWR as "unimportant" - it's that AA views themselves as uncompetitive, and doesn't see the need to lose money in a market where they will not be able to compete.

It's the same decision that every airline makes in every market constantly - do I feel that I am sufficiently competitive in this market to risk company resources competing here? AA made a decision - it seems like the financially prudent decision to me.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2071 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9486 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):
Quoting N62NA (Reply 15):
I wrote that to put a fine point on the issue that AA considers EWR (and the state on the west side of the Hudson River) unimportant.

I don't know why everyone needs to make this so melodramatic.

It's not that AA views EWR as "unimportant" - it's that AA views themselves as uncompetitive, and doesn't see the need to lose money in a market where they will not be able to compete.

It's the same decision that every airline makes in every market constantly - do I feel that I am sufficiently competitive in this market to risk company resources competing here? AA made a decision - it seems like the financially prudent decision to me.

Precisely. It has nothing to do with NJ being inferior or less sexy than NY or any other kind of nonsense. It's a matter of where to deploy finite resources.


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4520 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9450 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 18):

Precisely. It has nothing to do with NJ being inferior or less sexy than NY or any other kind of nonsense

History has shown otherwise.

Hourly flights to ORD? LGA

All widebodies to LAX/SFO? JFK

It's been like this going back 40 years (and that pre-dates CO/UA and even PeoplExpress).

Anyway, as I predicted two years ago (or so), AA would go RJ to ORD. (Done)

EWR-DFW dwindling.

And with EWR-LAX hanging by a thread, it's only a matter of time before that's gone.

And now this drastic cutback on MIA-EWR.

[Edited 2011-09-14 13:03:13]

User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6663 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9397 times:

I'm SURE this is just a seasonal reduction.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 9):
They view EWR as some backwater outpost. Minimal flights to DFW. Minimal flights to MIA. Minimal flights to ORD (and on RJs!). One flight to LAX (and on a 738!). This view of EWR really isn't anything new. All the legacies have, with the exception of CO (and now, via acquisition, UA), viewed EWR this way for decades.

EWR cuts by AA have been rather tragic. In 2005 AA flew EWR to DFW, ORD, MIA, EGE, SJU, and LAX. MQ flew BOS, RDU, and STL. However, if you think EWR has got it bad look up what AA has done to BOS and you'll be even more shocked. EWR was always just a station for AA, BOS was a flat out small hub now just a spoke city.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
But I am not sure why. I guess it is picking your battles. Both DL and AA (and even UA) were pretty sizeable at EWR up until 10 years ago.

UA had it's base at EWR up until 2006. LHR got cut in 2004, LAX got cut in 2008. UA/CO combined and now everyone is happy again.

If anything, DL has increased at EWR since the NW merger. They operate 30ish flights a day during the week out of EWR -- an easy #2 presence at the airport. They only thing they have cut in 10 years is unprofitable florida flying, but other cities like PHL, BWI, and now BDL are in the same boat.

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):
It's not that AA views EWR as "unimportant" - it's that AA views themselves as uncompetitive, and doesn't see the need to lose money in a market where they will not be able to compete.

AA is a shrinking airline outside of it's cornerstone hubs. EWR is the same as BOS, FLL, RDU, AUS, SEA, SFO in terms of overall non hub cuts. That's just how it is with AA.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6222 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9382 times:

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 5):
Indeed. #692 arrives in EWR at 3:40pm and heads back to MIA as #1559 the day after departing at 1:59pm.

I hope there is some maintenance done there or else this is horrible eqp utilization



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently onlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9373 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):

And now this drastic cutback on MIA-EWR.

Well, it's true that in 2001 AA had 11 daily DFW-EWR flights (now 6), 10 daily ORD-EWR and 3 daily LAX-EWR (as well as BOS, STL and SJU). However, regarding MIA-EWR, they had 3 daily flights in summer 2001, and this summer they also have had 3 daily, so, unlike the other markets, MIA-EWR has not been downsized (they still have 3 daily 4 days each week, and I'm sure the cuts in the other days are only for this season).


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9313 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
And with EWR-LAX hanging by a thread, it's only a matter of time before that's gone.

Will you still be saying that three years from now when LAXEWR is still operating?

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
And now this drastic cutback on MIA-EWR.

Drastic? Seriously? Reducing day-of-week departures for seven weeks is drastic? It's back to the thrice-daily it's always been by November.

Fact is that not only is AA going to have less planes to use this fall as cabin refurb and WiFi installation sped up, but AA now has a pilot shortage that it stupidly did not seem to plan for.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 19):
Anyway, as I predicted two years ago (or so), AA would go RJ to ORD. (Done)

Seasonally, yes. Mainline is back in April.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 20):
AA is a shrinking airline outside of it's cornerstone hubs. EWR is the same as BOS, FLL, RDU, AUS, SEA, SFO in terms of overall non hub cuts. That's just how it is with AA.

That's how it is with EVERY airline. Why is AA always singled out as if it's the only airline doing this? It's not.



a.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9313 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 16):
Except that the overlap between traffic using EWR and LGA/JFK is somewhat limited.

Sure, but it's not like CO has 50 flights a day at LGA.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 TOMMY767 : You are right, I was just proving a point that AA has shrunk at non hub station. In the early/mid 2000s AA was all about focus cities and now they co
26 mah4546 : Indeed, but maybe they should have started doing this earlier. All other airlines were cutting back at focus cities well before AA, and they are all
27 realsim : That's how it is with AA and with all the other legacies. IMO, even the people who usually criticize AA see it as the leading American airline becaus
28 TOMMY767 : I don't really have an issue with AA -- I'm not trying to pick on them. I was just stating how they have shrunk at many non hub stations over the yea
29 SCL767 : Remember that AA offers NYC customers non-stop flights to Latin America and the Caribbean at JFK. For example, AA operates *JFK-ANU, JFK-BGI, JFK-CCS
30 Post contains images commavia : Wow - I didn't realize an entire airport could be crucified. I mean - seriously? Let's climb down off the cross - I don't know what is driving this i
31 STT757 : And EWR-LHR.
32 RyanairGuru : Interesting statement. While Atlanta and Philadelphia both have metro populations over 5 million, there is a pretty low chance of either having any s
33 AAR90 : The original question: The acft currently assigned to fly AA1559 on 20Sep is currently scheduled to come from MIA as AA1382 on 19Sep. The acft to be a
34 COEWR2587 : I remember flying this route as a kid with the A300. My first wide body ride
35 slcdeltarumd11 : I don't think its anything against EWR personally at all. EWR is only inferior because its a true mega hub for Continental and DL and AA are trying to
36 commavia : I used the word "regional" to mean in the New York region, not a small airport. My point was that EWR was the only airport in the region that has eve
37 STT757 : VX has been trying to get into EWR for a while, if they suceed and launch EWR-LAX that might be the end of AA's EWR-LAX flight. And with regards to EW
38 commavia : I agree. If Virgin were to enter the EWR-LAX market, I suspect AA would leave. Then again, though, their 1 daily 737 isn't a whole lot of resource co
39 TOMMY767 : EWR-CVG will likely stick around because it is the only other competition on the route aside CO. It's going from 4x to 3x this fall but even so they
40 WA707atMSP : Let's see how long LAX-PHL lasts. It seems like another "Delta Dartboard" route, given that PHL has never been a major city for DL, and DL's on again
41 TOMMY767 : I think it's less of a dartboard but rather throwing pieces of meat at a wall and seeing what sticks. Not sure how PHL would do. Seems like CMH, RDU
42 klwright69 : You are absolutely correct. Some are responding to the statement that EWR is a "backwater outpost," when that is not the issue at all.
43 WA707atMSP : The competitive environment at EWR was much different 20 years ago than it is now. At that time, CO was still dealing with operational issues related
44 klwright69 : Is there any proof that DL has any interest in LAX-EWR?
45 mah4546 : AA isn't leaving EWRLAX, which is not only important to serve from it's Los Angeles hub, but a key Qantas feeder route.
46 TOMMY767 : It's a rumor that has floated around a.net for a little while now.
47 N62NA : I was referring to the past 40 years. JFK got all widebodies from UA, AA and TW (747s and D10/L10) EWR would get 707s (AA and TW) and DC-8s (UA) and
48 N62NA : As viewed consistently through the last 40 years by AA, UA, DL, NW and TW, EWR has been second fiddle to JFK/LGA. CO is the only legacy carrier that
49 N62NA : I have no idea about the QF feed, but if LAX-EWR was so important, why doesn't it merit the same 762 "trans con flagship service" (or whatever AA cal
50 commavia : Historically, more airlines have served LGA/JFK, and as such, those airports have been more diffused and competitive, and that self-reinforcing feedb
51 slcdeltarumd11 : There is zero evidence in the real world. A.net rumors are started by the same people who thought years ago that Delta would have a full feldged hub
52 TOMMY767 : AA's 767 on EWR-LAX has been on and off for years. It was a 762 for a good 3-4 months back in 2009.
53 N62NA : Yeah, I think that was AA's last attempt at doing anything meaningful at EWR. It's been all downhill since then, as evidenced by their going RJ on EW
54 mah4546 : It's not an "attempt" to do anything. AA barely has enough 762s to operate just JFKLAX/SFO. When there is freed up aircraft due to schedule changes,
55 N62NA : Yes, it was an attempt at trying out their 3 class service on EWR-LAX. P.S. Can you please be a little less belligerant when someone posts something
56 mah4546 : It was nothing more than using a 762 that would be otherwise parked. It's not as if AA was doing it long-term. It was temporary right from the start,
57 slcdeltarumd11 : To shift back more to the subject i think its a a seasonal downshift. Again less seats try to make more money per seat. We shouldn't bash AA for them
58 N62NA : At the time, YOU actually were the one who said it. And you wrote that it was withdrawn because they couldn't sell enough seats in F.
59 N62NA : I understand that. However, where's the equivalent (or even somewhere in the ballpark) pulldown at LGA and/or JFK on this route?
60 LAXdude1023 : How is that? DFW-EWR is 6x daily and has been for a long time.
61 N62NA : Last I checked it was 5x.
62 mah4546 : It's very likely AA couldn't sell enough F, but it was always temporary with the withdraw date set when it was loaded into GDS.
63 N62NA : It was. And they did. No reason they couldn't have kept the 757 on that flight.
64 Cubsrule : Maybe, maybe not. The 762 fleet is small enough and the average stage length long enough that there may be a very real need to keep a certain level o
65 DFWEagle : The frequency of MIA-EWR is still 16x weekly, not 1x daily. Out of the 7 days of the week, only 2 have a single flight in the market. More than half
66 TOMMY767 : UA also flies LAX-PHL. I still say it's possible that DL might add EWR-LAX at some point. Perhaps it's more likely that EWR-CDG or EWR-FCO would fly
67 apodino : Didn't UA recently pull out of this route, leaving US as the only Star Carrier operating this route?
68 SP90 : Good thing they had 3x flights daily on Sat and Sun. Last Sat (9/17) there was a security scare on AA1382 and everyone had to deplane. Story we got fr
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AA Eagle To Fly MIA-TLH posted Sat Nov 17 2007 18:22:04 by AJMIA
AA Eagle To Cut BOS-EWR And ORD-IAD posted Mon Feb 26 2007 16:37:13 by AJMIA
RDU-DEN Down To 1 Daily? posted Wed Oct 6 2004 05:27:06 by ERJ170
AA Adds Third Daily MIA-BNA posted Sat Mar 6 2004 22:15:12 by MAH4546
AA's Inagural Second Daily MIA-LHR Takes Off posted Sun Oct 27 2002 02:26:53 by MAH4546
AA Goes Double-daily MIA-LHR! posted Thu Aug 22 2002 20:15:39 by MAH4546
AA Running 3rd Daily MIA-EZE posted Fri Jun 15 2001 05:31:20 by MAH4546
AA To Go 2x Daily MIA-MDE; 3x Daily MIA-BOG posted Fri Oct 12 2007 15:51:47 by MAH4546
MDW-EWR Down To Twice Daily posted Mon Jun 11 2007 01:09:49 by Highliner2
AA To Begin Daily MIA-XNA Service posted Thu Feb 8 2007 17:22:20 by MAH4546