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Delta Considering Economy Comfort For Domestic  
User currently offlinerising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 258 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10621 times:

Didn't see this posted so I wanted to discuss this. Ed Bastian stated at a conference yesterday that Economy Comfort is doing so well they are seriously looking at it for the entire Domestic mainline fleet.

It is important to mention that they have NOT made a decision yet.

Here is a link to the presentation

http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/co....zhtml?ticker=DAL&item_id=4195696.

If you're a Delta flyer, perhaps now is the time to start sending e-mails to Ed and Richard in support?


If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10554 times:

If they were to roll it out domestically, I would definitely pay the extra $$$ for such a seat. But knowing Delta, they may just roll it out domestically out of JFK to compete with United p.s. and American's Flagship Service (and to an extent, VX's Main Cabin Select seats) to LAX and SFO, although I could see it on their services to Hawaii as well.

User currently offlinerising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 258 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10473 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 1):
they may just roll it out domestically out of JFK to compete with United p.s. and American's Flagship Service

He seemed very intent that this would be a product on the entire mainline. Looking at the international offering, where you receive early boarding and free drinks, if they offer that on domestic, and offer it complimentary to elites, this would be a very competitive product (I would even say superior) to United's Economy Plus. Will be interesting to see! I don't fly Delta often, but would be very excited to this come to fruition.



If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
User currently offlinenwa757boy From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 676 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10282 times:

hmmmm I just spoke with Steve Gorman yesterday and he stated that in FACT it is coming domestically including the two class RJs....

User currently offlineKinGFriDAy013 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1294 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10255 times:

If this was offered domestically, I would definitely take it (assuming it wasn't too expensive). Although I'd probably wait until I'm 21...   Unfortunately however I'm usually on 50-seat regional jets so I don't think this would be on those. I wonder if this would make it to the CRJ-700s and -900s and E170/175s... they now have Wi-Fi and already have F. However I feel that with all of that they'd hold off on taking out any more seats than they'd have to.

-J.



Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
User currently offlinesimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 904 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10262 times:

Quoting rising (Thread starter):
Ed Bastian stated at a conference yesterday that Economy Comfort is doing so well they are seriously looking at it for the entire Domestic mainline fleet.

My firsthand observations are that Economy Comfort may be doing well from a revenue standpoint, but it's creating a ton of problems on board the aircraft in terms of getting it right.

Quoting rising (Thread starter):
Quoting nwa757boy (Reply 3):
hmmmm I just spoke with Steve Gorman yesterday and he stated that in FACT it is coming domestically including the two class RJs....

I'll buy this one.

[Edited 2011-09-14 18:57:03]

User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8868 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10206 times:

Considering that UA found it revenue-positive enough to expand it to the Continental fleet, I'm not surprised that Delta would consider it.

User currently offlinecloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 793 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10123 times:

Yes, but if it ends up taking away from the first class product, and suddenly all those elite fliers find themselves in coach seats with a little more leg room instead of first, how many of them do you think will just switch to JetBlue?


"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3520 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10088 times:

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 7):
Yes, but if it ends up taking away from the first class product, and suddenly all those elite fliers find themselves in coach seats with a little more leg room instead of first, how many of them do you think will just switch to JetBlue?

Well, considering JetBlue only offers coach, if a lack of first class seating is the reason why they're switching, I don't think they're going to be very satisfied.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineSkyPriorityDTW From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 187 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10059 times:

Just as with any industry, up-sells work. This one is easy. I think almost anyone would pay a few extra Franklin's to get more room and a free drink. Not only would this be superior to United's Economy Plus, but it would also compete with Southwest and it's Business Select product. Priority boarding and a free drink would definitely make it more worth it. However, I would suggest moving Silver Medallion's to Zone 1 in boarding so that they aren't hounded by the AMEX card users and Economy Comfort passengers. There are a lot of things to look at with this, but I'm sure it will be a "go-ahead" moving forward. The ROI would be much greater than the investment, I can tell you that without even crunching the numbers!


Keep Climbing...
User currently offlinesimairlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 904 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10028 times:

Quoting rising (Thread starter):
Quoting cloudboy (Reply 7):
Yes, but if it ends up taking away from the first class product

There's not much to take away from. Bastian gave the numbers a few quarters ago in an investor presentation: 93% of domestic first class is occupied, but only 14% is actually sold. There's plenty of upsell potential and very little downsell.


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5062 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9883 times:

Even though it still wouldn't get me on board Delta - it will definitely add more revenue, and it will aid DL in the system wide capacity reductions.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1227 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9834 times:

I'd be satisfied if they could simply get seat assignments accomplished in a timely manner. I'd pay a little bit extra not to have get a seat assignment at the gate on a ticket bought three weeks out. IMHO, DL's seat pitch isnt all that bad. I would pay $20 just to be assured an aisle or window in the currently configured seats.
Another thing that I would like to see (not just on DL but everyone) would be...there is no politically correct way to say this but.....I would like to see a policy that if a person cannot fit in a seat that they have to buy two seats. Im not trying to pick on people "of size" but, on two occaisions in the last two months (an MD88 on DL and a 734 on US) I have had to share a row with people in excess of 300lbs. The trips were absolutely miserable not only for me but for everyone on that seat block, the large person included. I paid for 17.5" of seat, I got 12". The other person paid for 17.5" of seat and got 23". how is that fair? To be sure, they were just as uncomfortable in their 23" as I was in my 12" so we were equally bad off. Has anyone else encountered this that is willing to fess up?
For a standard I would suggest that if you cant get the armrest down you pay for the adjacent seat. I know this is a little off topic but not having to deal with this is something that I would pay for. UA goes for some added pitch which is nice. Maybe DL could differentiate by giving seat assignments and five abreast on a few rows on six abreast aircraft for an added fee? I dont have any suggestions for the MD88's and MD90's though as going four abreat there for a few rows would cost them more revenue than they could offset with the extra fee. Please dont flame me but I welcome a constructive discourse.


User currently offlinepqdtw From Netherlands, joined Aug 2008, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9696 times:

Quoting Flaps (Reply 12):
Another thing that I would like to see (not just on DL but everyone) would be...there is no politically correct way to say this but.....I would like to see a policy that if a person cannot fit in a seat that they have to buy two seats. Im not trying to pick on people "of size" but, on two occaisions in the last two months (an MD88 on DL and a 734 on US) I have had to share a row with people in excess of 300lbs.

Delta's policy regarding that is that the person must be able to fit in the seat with the armrests down, if there is complaint from a passenger next to him/her. The large passenger must then be reaccommodated in a seat that has an open seat next to him/her, or if the flight is full, the gate agent is to de-board the passenger. The truth is, it doesn't happen all that often, because most people (crew and fellow passengers alike) don't feel comfortable taking it that far.


User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 9287 times:

Lets be realistic, how many business people pay for f class these days considering most of them are top tier status with their airlines and have unlimited upgrades. I believe corporate america would be willing to pay a few extra bucks for flights over 3 hours.

Personally, I would pay extra for longer domestic flights.


User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5267 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 9240 times:

Quoting Flaps (Reply 12):
I would like to see a policy that if a person cannot fit in a seat that they have to buy two seats. Im not trying to pick on people "of size" but, on two occaisions in the last two months (an MD88 on DL and a 734 on US) I have had to share a row with people in excess of 300lbs. The trips were absolutely miserable not only for me but for everyone on that seat block, the large person included. I paid for 17.5" of seat, I got 12". The other person paid for 17.5" of seat and got 23". how is that fair? To be sure, they were just as uncomfortable in their 23" as I was in my 12" so we were equally bad off. Has anyone else encountered this that is willing to fess up?

Seems reasonable. I have a friend who always pays for two seats when she travels because she's uncomfortable fitting into one. I respect her a great deal for doing this, as she could just as easily "wedge" herself into the seat and make herself - and the people next to her - miserable. In fact, she flew to Wilmington, NC today and was asking me prior to going where seat B went, because she was assigned A/C on a CRJ900. Lucky her, she got a window and an aisle.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 871 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 9156 times:

There seems to be an assumption here that DL would take First Class seats out to put in Economy Comfort. Do we know this to be the case, or would they take out a few coach seats for the extra pitch? I think it would be best to take out just one row of First for this given the revenue risk in the back. If you take out any more, I think too many elites would get disgruntled. Taking First down to the single digits is a little draconian.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11120 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 8839 times:

What an endorsement this is for United's EconomyPlus move over a decade ago - truly impressive. It looks like Delta is making a smart move here rolling this out on the international fleet, and perhaps even on the domestic fleet. AA should follow suit - at least on the 777s, 767s and international 757s (a grand total of about 125 jets).

User currently offlinejfk787nyc From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 812 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8825 times:

Quoting rising (Reply 2):

Quoting srbmod (Reply 1):
they may just roll it out domestically out of JFK to compete with United p.s. and American's Flagship Service

He seemed very intent that this would be a product on the entire mainline. Looking at the international offering, where you receive early boarding and free drinks, if they offer that on domestic, and offer it complimentary to elites, this would be a very competitive product (I would even say superior) to United's Economy Plus. Will be interesting to see! I don't fly Delta often, but would be very excited to this come to fruition.

Ok, I travel 100'000 miles a year with Delta, And I get upgraded 97% of the time, I do wish they do not plan to upgrade me to a Economy Plus seat rather then a Domestic First Class.


User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8784 times:

Quoting Flaps (Reply 12):
I'd pay a little bit extra not to have get a seat assignment at the gate on a ticket bought three weeks out.

How often do you have that problem. I've booked several times the day before and was always able to select my seats at the time of booking.

Economy Comfort is a good product. I've flown it twice on long haul, and was really pleased. It's a good deal.


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8725 times:

Quoting jfk787nyc (Reply 18):
Ok, I travel 100'000 miles a year with Delta, And I get upgraded 97% of the time, I do wish they do not plan to upgrade me to a Economy Plus seat rather then a Domestic First Class.

Lets look at it from Delta's perspective: If their domestic F seats are not being sold and are being given away they aren't getting good value for that space on the aircraft. Sure they are deriving some value by keeping elites happy, but not good value. If they can shrink the domestic F cabin and introduce and Economy Comfort cabin, they can potentially accomplish three things... still provide upgrades to elite travelers (albeit not first, but still a much better travel experience than economy), increase revenue and passenger experience for non-elites by selling upgrades to economy passengers, and increase F revenue by making it more exclusive and forcing those passengers that truly demand the F seat to have to pay for it versus buying an economy ticket knowing they will get an automatic upgrade (those that would pay for F now don't because they know they can get the seat without having to pay for it). It really seems like a win-win for all involved if the demand is there to up-sell, I question how much demand exists when start to get to flights under or around 2 hours. International seemed like a no-brainer, transcons and even midcons also seems obvious, but entire fleet seems questionable but apparently they believe the demand is there. I know will never be able to see the numbers but I would love to see the break down on sales for Economy Comfort by flight length.


User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1411 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8677 times:

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 14):
I believe corporate america would be willing to pay a few extra bucks for flights over 3 hours.

This is key.
Rather than subject their employees to the risk of not getting the free upgrade, I think corporate america will just purchase the Economy Comfort seat outright and be done with it.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8629 times:
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Quoting KinGFriDAy013 (Reply 4):
I wonder if this would make it to the CRJ-700s and -900s and E170/175s..
Quoting peanuts (Reply 21):
Rather than subject their employees to the risk of not getting the free upgrade, I think corporate america will just purchase the Economy Comfort seat outright and be done with it.

For the CRJ900 and E175, the 12 First seats @ 37 inch pitch can become Economy Comfort by reducing seat pitch to 34" and change the first two rows of Y into this too, so you have 18 Y Comfort and 58 Y.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7343 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 8597 times:

I can't see this being rolled out on 50 seaters, 2-class RJs, or even the A319s.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 21):
This is key.
Rather than subject their employees to the risk of not getting the free upgrade, I think corporate america will just purchase the Economy Comfort seat outright and be done with it.

I don't know about that, especially with the asnine travel policies in place at most companies, typically set by travel managers & departments that don't travel frequently. Items like choosing the cheapest flights, connections, hotel policies, etc. where you have to explain how something more expensive either may increase productivity or provide a lower cost in the end.

At least with elite status it takes some of the comforts out of the control of the travel department that is staffed by a bunch of WFH deadbeats.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8204 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 8558 times:

Quoting SkyPriorityDTW (Reply 9):
Just as with any industry, up-sells work.

Yup. I have seen it with my friends and family. They will pay for this 30-70 dollar upgrade all the time. Additionally, this is untaxed by aviation taxes, correct? The trip itself has TSA/ATC taxes and so on. But not seat upgrades. Therefore the big seat revenue is sweeter than marginal additional passengers (who are each taxed). So might as well throw out some empty seats and really please the customers you do have.


25 PI4EVER : I doubt DL will remove any seats from F, considering they just completed the addition of F seats in the domestic 767 fleet, and are modifying the 757
26 peanuts : It seems to me that if DL decides on Domestic Economy Comfort, some current upgrade rules may have to be adjusted. If a certain amount of confirmed EC
27 Post contains images peanuts : I guess we are thinking the same thing at the same time...you know the saying...
28 nwa757boy : As i stated earlier in the thread, according to Steve Gorman whom I spoke to on the 13th, stated that it will be on all mainline domestic planes incl
29 RamblinMan : Fine by me... I've never made higher than silver, and always thought the upgrades were the least valuable perk anyhow. Upgrading to F is fun, but wha
30 spacecadet : I've flown/am flying a total of eight flights on Delta over the current month. Of those, I was able to select seats in advance on four of them. So, I
31 Post contains images peanuts : I'll take this back... The top fliers that have a confirmed EC ticket, could potentially get upgraded to First. DL still KEEPS that additional EC rev
32 RamblinMan : Why the hell would a plat pay for an EC ticket when they get that benefit for free? Or am I missing something?
33 peanuts : If DL thinks along that line then EC is just meant for Golds and Silvers. I just don't see why Platinum and Diamonds should get upgraded on a regular
34 RamblinMan : Because all elites get upgraded on regular Y tickets. Including super-discounted Y. As a silver, I have sat in F on MDW-ATL having paid as little as
35 peanuts : Ok. Just trying to understand here. So, if UA has, let's say 12 F and 16 Y+ (just random numbers), and you are #44 on the list, how is UA making mone
36 RamblinMan : No, and this has a lot to do with their actual configuration... on an A319, a very common type for domestic, you have 8F and 40 Y+. Most people repor
37 Flaps : I currently fly PIT-SGF-PIT every week and have done so for the past three months. I usually book three weeks out. On the PIT-ATL and PIT-MEM segment
38 FlyASAGuy2005 : I'd like to make one small correction. The seat count is to be 28FC. Only the original Song a/c dot at 26FC and have nose to tail AVOD (75X). The inf
39 cloudboy : The problem is that people are assuming a passenger flying Delta now will always be a Delta passenger regardlesss of the price paid or what they get.
40 Flaps : That isnt true. I've done it several times and I'm not a UA elite. I am a member of their FF program but I havent yet accumulated enough miles or seg
41 RamblinMan : Then how come every time I book a ticket I get a message asking me if I want to purchase Economy Plus? (I'm not an elite) Y+ does two things for UA..
42 United1 : As a non-elite and as long as Y+ is available you can purchase the upgrade at any time between booking and check in. As an elite you can reserve a Y+
43 TOLtommy : Since JetBlue flies to less than a handful of locations Delta does (including DTW, ATL, and MSP hubs), it's not really that big of an issue. Perhaps
44 odysseus9001 : I can see this working if they implemented in a way similar to United. Silver+ FF get to do domestic economy comfort for free and reserve it online, o
45 PSU.DTW.SCE : Well, I would think it might be challenging due to CASM on these aircraft. 50 seaters - no way, all that would do is ruin the CASM further on these a
46 dartland : It amazes me that UA has had E+ for a decade and DL is just now acting surprised that it's a net positive for their airline! Re the implementation, UA
47 PC12Fan : Is there a link to check out that you don't have to register to access?
48 FlyASAGuy2005 : The system does seem funky but its set up that way for a reason. Keep in mind that DL blocks a lot of seats. Row 10 on the narrowbody Airbus, the 737
49 delta2ual : Plus, UA sells upgrades to Y+ for a yearly fee of $400-something dollars. Even non-elites can buy this and upgrade on every flight they purchase (if
50 TSS : I did. About a year ago while boarding a flight DFW-RNO, I saw a lady ahead of me in line who weighed at least 300 lbs and thought to myself "Wow, I
51 TSS : Back on topic- In reading this thread and in hearing of UA's apparent success with their E+ product, I can't help but suspect that AA are wishing they
52 hiflyer : Doing a quick scan of current DL configs and comparing to UA I think it is a no brainer that current front end seats will be reduced as part of the in
53 Post contains links TSS : The computer costs might not be as substantial as you think since AA has already added a $4 fee for "preferred" economy seating in the first few rows
54 PSU.DTW.SCE : I'm not sure what to make out of the rumored changes. If DL were indeed going to reduce F to add in Economy Comfort, one would think they wouldn't hav
55 LAXtoATL : We don't know whether or not they will be reducing F, but even if they do it can still be a consistent strategy in increasing their offering of premi
56 nyc2theworld : Removing 1st class seats for EC would be a terrible move. UA figured this out when they decided to add E+ to the PMCO fleet. They decided they would r
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