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CP Air Clears First Of Several FAA Hurdles  
User currently offlinebriguy1974 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

CP Air was notified on the 9th of September that they have cleared the first stage of certification. It was noted that 2.3 million dollars have been spent thus far in the certification process. Good Luck to them as they head towards a 121 cert.

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3277 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6014 times:

On September 9, 2011, CP Air's application for Part 121 certification was accepted by the FAA. The company has also passed it first formal application meeting which tests the company's knowledge of processes and procedures of its operations manual system.

Next up is the Phase II of the application process once a lease has been signed for at least one aircraft. This phase, known as design assessment, is a detailed page by page assessment of the airline's manual system and training procedures. This is expected to be completed by the end of 2011. Phase III will involve a physical review of an aircraft's layout followed by proving runs. Proving runs are simulated full flight operations without passengers. It is designed to assess an applicant's performance in actual flight operations. Successful completion of proving runs is the final step before regulatory approval would be granted for a Part 121 certificate. If no significant issues arise, the company anticipates completion of the regulatory process around April of 2012.

CP Air is currently the only US applicant airline in the FAA formal 121 certification process.

Also on another website the VP of Maintenance was looking to hire a bunch of technical people. Is he jumping the gun a little bit if they're not going to be ready until April 2012 or is this normal lead time?



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineYXD172 From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5689 times:

Sorry for the stupid question, but what airline is CP Air?


Radial engines don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory!
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4760 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5678 times:

Quoting YXD172 (Reply 2):
Sorry for the stupid question, but what airline is CP Air?

It's sure not this one ....


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Udo K. Haafke



I know I am biased, but in my opinion calling another airline CPAir is like calling another airline Pan American, or Braniff ... there can be only one!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5668 times:

Quoting YXD172 (Reply 2):
Sorry for the stupid question, but what airline is CP Air?
http://www.flycpair.com/


User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5626 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 3):
I know I am biased, but in my opinion calling another airline CPAir is like calling another airline Pan American, or Braniff ... there can be only one!

  

Wouldn't AC now have the TM rights to the name CPAir?


User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 924 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5583 times:

Damn, I had brief moment of excitement there, imagining a 777 in that orange colour scheme...  
Quoting golfradio (Reply 5):
Wouldn't AC now have the TM rights to the name CPAir?

You just beat me to it!


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4760 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5497 times:

Quoting golfradio (Reply 5):
Wouldn't AC now have the TM rights to the name CPAir?

I would guess no, only as it was called Canadian Airlines International and was owned by PWA Corporation when Air Canada bought them.

If anything, I would have thought Canadian Pacific might still retain rights to the name. Canadian Pacific was the parent company of the airline when it was sold to PWA Corp to form Canadi>n.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 924 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 5438 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 7):

If anything, I would have thought Canadian Pacific might still retain rights to the name. Canadian Pacific was the parent company of the airline when it was sold to PWA Corp to form Canadi>n.

You have a point... the answer I suspect is buried within the transaction documents fo the sale from CP to PW to AC.... and within the technicalities ( what was filed and where, were filnigs maintained, etc). I imagine the (new) CP Air has a team of high-priced lawyers who have looked into the issue.


User currently offlineCanadianDC10 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 335 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 5379 times:

I wish it were the real CP Air coming back instead of this new random american airline.

User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1785 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

Quoting golfradio (Reply 5):
Wouldn't AC now have the TM rights to the name CPAir?

Air Canada owns the rights to the Canadian Pacific Airlines trademark. This airline is called California Pacific Airlines. You can't sue another company because they have the same acronym! Can you imagine AC going to court and making the argument "We demand compensation because their name starts with the same letters as one of our trademarks!" The only people that would benefit from such a case are the lawyers.

A lawsuit isn't impossible though. Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment is suing the Association of Corporate Counsel over the ACC acronym (Air Canada Center for those non-hockey or basketball fans), and IHOP (International House of Pancakes) is suing IHOP (International House of Prayer) over that particular acronym.

In my opinion, it looks like the new CP Air has made no attempt to benefit from the trademark of the defunct CP Air. Therefore it would never hold up in court.

I wish all the best to them. I look forward to seeing a new airline enter the market that doesn't brand itself as "low-cost".



Flying refined.
User currently onlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2806 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 5205 times:

Trademarks are only protected in the jurisdictions they're registered in. I have no idea if the old CP trademarks were also registered in the U.S.


Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineflycpair From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 18 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 5205 times:

Afternoon everyone. California Pacific Airlines does own the registered trademark to "CP Air." To see at it at the Patent and Trademark office, go to the following link and do a basic word mark search for "CP Air" :

http://tess2.uspto.gov/

Acronyms can be trademarked and can't be confusingly similar to one in a like industry. US Airways still owns the trademark to PSA, something they bought in the late 80's. A business entity has to show proof of public usage every seven years or the trademark expires. This partly explains why airlines love retro paint jobs such as the US A-319 in PSA colors. It allows US Airways to preserve the trademark by showing usage in commerce.

We can be followed on Twitter for future information at:

http://twitter.com/FlyCPAir

on Facebook at:

http://www.facebook.com/FlyCPAir

Any others questions we can answer?

[Edited 2011-09-15 12:30:09]

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6579 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 5116 times:

Quoting flycpair (Reply 12):
S Airways still owns the trademark to PSA, something they bought in the late 80's. A business entity has to show proof of public usage every seven years or the trademark expires. This partly explains why airlines love retro paint jobs such as the US A-319 in PSA colors. It allows US Airways to preserve the trademark by showing usage in commerce.

US took care of that in the past by having its wholly-owned regional carriers use those old names -- Allegheny, Piedmont, and PSA. The latter two still exist under those names. But you're right that the "heritage" liveries probably preserve the trademarks on Allegheny and America West now.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 10):
A lawsuit isn't impossible though. Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment is suing the Association of Corporate Counsel over the ACC acronym (Air Canada Center for those non-hockey or basketball fans), and IHOP (International House of Pancakes) is suing IHOP (International House of Prayer) over that particular acronym.

The funny thing is that the Atlantic Coast Conference could probably sue Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment over the use of "ACC" in the sports domain given that they were established in 1953, long before there was even an Air Canada.


User currently offlineYXD172 From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 5025 times:

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 6):
Damn, I had brief moment of excitement there, imagining a 777 in that orange colour scheme...

I was thinking along those lines until I saw that it was registering in the US. Thanks golfradio!



Radial engines don't leak oil, they are just marking their territory!
User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1785 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4959 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 13):
The funny thing is that the Atlantic Coast Conference could probably sue Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment over the use of "ACC" in the sports domain given that they were established in 1953, long before there was even an Air Canada.

Normally yes....should they be registered in the same country. The Atlantic Coast Conference is American, whereas the Air Canada Center is located in Toronto! I'm assuming they have the ACC acronym registered only in their respective countries.  
Quoting flycpair (Reply 12):
We can be followed on Twitter for future information at:

http://twitter.com/FlyCPAir

on Facebook at:

http://www.facebook.com/FlyCPAir

Any others questions we can answer?

No questions, but I love that you guys are active on A-net! Community engagement will help you guys go a long way.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4827 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 7):
I would guess no, only as it was called Canadian Airlines International and was owned by PWA Corporation when Air Canada bought them.

You would think that when Air Canada bought Canadi>n, they would have owned the rights to Pacific Western and CP Air too.

I was really hoping to see a new Canadian carrier called CP Air even it ended up just being another Canjet type carrier, but it would probably be another insult to the name like all those attempted Pan Am reincarnations.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24080 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4626 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 10):
Air Canada owns the rights to the Canadian Pacific Airlines trademark.

What's your source of that information? I think it would have been highly unlikely that Canadian Pacific, when they sold the airline to Pacific Western (which created Canadian Airlines) would not have included a provision preventing PWA from using the Canadian Pacific name for something totally unrelated to the former parent company. And that kind of agreement would almost certainly have carried forward when AC acquired Canadian.

About the only remnant of Canadian Pacific that survived the transition to Canadian Airlines was the CP IATA code.


User currently offlinePI767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4559 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 3):
I know I am biased, but in my opinion calling another airline CPAir is like calling another airline Pan American, or Braniff ... there can be only one!

Or Ozark or Western... but yes. I totally agree. 100%. I know I will get flamed for this but I will say it anyways..... even today's Frontier (with the whole Midwest Express, Republic Airways, etc drama) is an insult to the company that once held that name. Then there was not only National # 2 (aka Private Jet) but also National # 3 (which was a fine airline I flew several times). But yes......it is all an insult to the carrier that once held that name,

In fact, I do believe, the Braniff family has now officially acquired that name, so that no one else can use it.

As far as CP Air, however, I do wonder..... CP Air was always "officially" Canadian Pacific Airlines. Even when the planes were silver with red and orange paint and bore the name "CP Air" they were really Canadian Pacific.

So that brings up the question: What name is protected by the CP Air name? CP Air or Canadaian Pacific? Or neither?

Regardless, as an airline geek, I am excited to see that a new airline may be starting up in the USA. It's been a long time since we have seen that. I really do wish the new CP Air good luck. It would be nice to see someone new in the skies.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24080 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Quoting PI767 (Reply 18):
As far as CP Air, however, I do wonder..... CP Air was always "officially" Canadian Pacific Airlines.

Not quite. The legal name was Canadian Pacific Air Lines (Air Lines, not Airlines).


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4947 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Quoting flycpair (Reply 12):
Any others questions we can answer?

Yes sir!!! Do you have any aircraft yet??!!! LOL!  

Actually, not a question. I just wanted to extend my congrats on the first phase. I also wanted to thank you for keeping us up to date on airliners.net.

Oh heck!! When do you guys plan on flying to SEA?



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1785 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
What's your source of that information?

I had made an assumption because my argument remains unchanged regardless of ownership of the trademark.

But, out of curiosity, I looked it up anyway! I couldn't find the trademark for "CP Air" itself (to be honest I didn't look that hard), but I found the trademark for complimentary titles such as "CP Air Saver Class" and "CP Air Holidays" registered with the Canadian Intellectual Property Office (CIPO), and it appears that they belong to Canadian Pacific Railway Company. Kind of fitting, eh!   



Flying refined.
User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 11):
Trademarks are only protected in the jurisdictions they're registered in.

That's not entirely true - a trademark holder in one country can pursue legal action in another if there's a material possibility of consumer confusion, especially in a situation like that of the US and Canada, where there's strong media overlap and a common language.

For example, both Nickelodeon and the now-defunct UPN network ran into trademark trouble with Canada's CTV network, Nick over a program name (they called a news program Nick News W-5, where CTV has had a program called W-5 or W-Five since the 1960s), and UPN over their first logo, which had the initials in a square, circle, and pyramid colored red, green, and blue...same concept as the CTV logo which had been used for many years. Nickelodeon dropped the "W-5" out of the name and UPN changed one of the colors to yellow, then went to three-dimensional metallic shapes (they later redesigned the logo entirely).

Quoting PI767 (Reply 18):
Even when the planes were silver with red and orange paint and bore the name "CP Air" they were really Canadian Pacific.

A trademark and a company's legal name aren't the same thing - you can trademark any product name. Apple's name doesn't even have an "i" in it, yet they've trademarked iPad, iPhone, etc., and have pursued other companies for giving their products similar names.

If they hadn't already, I'm sure Canadian Pacific trademarked the "CP Air" name at the time the CP Air livery was introduced.


User currently offlineflycpair From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 18 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

All versions of the trademark for "CP Air" in Canada, on its own or in conjunction with other phrases, were either cancelled, abandoned, or expunged.

We are close to signing leases for our initial pair of Embraer 170's which are required to enter Phase 2 of the formal FAA Part 121 certification process.

CP Air is focused on receiving regulatory approval and beginning service from Carlsbad, CA to our initial five US destinations. In our second year of operation, we are looking at a variety of possible cities to add to our route network.


User currently offlinePI767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3982 times:

Quoting flycpair (Reply 23):
All versions of the trademark for "CP Air" in Canada, on its own or in conjunction with other phrases, were either cancelled, abandoned, or expunged.

We are close to signing leases for our initial pair of Embraer 170's which are required to enter Phase 2 of the formal FAA Part 121 certification process.

CP Air is focused on receiving regulatory approval and beginning service from Carlsbad, CA to our initial five US destinations. In our second year of operation, we are looking at a variety of possible cities to add to our route network.

Randy, I for one, want to wish you guys the best of luck. As I said in a previous post, it has been a long time since we have seen a new face in the American skies and it will be nice to see someone new. Good luck. Please keep us updated.

PI767


25 bjorn14 : With CLD's short (4897') runway how far can the E170s go? I think SJD/SEA would be a stretch without a severe penalty. Have you scaled back from 3 to
26 YYZYYT : In order to file a trade mark applicaiton (or resist an application by another entity for a confusing mark to your own), the owner of the mark needs
27 briguy1974 : flycpair, When do you plan on hiring station managers and staff for your initial destinations. My resume is sitting in an electronic vault somewhere..
28 Post contains links flycpair : The Embraer 170 can fly 1,100NM from Carlsbad's (CLD) runway with a full load of 70 passengers with 1.33 checked bags per passenger at 88 degrees. Thi
29 B727FA : As opposed to the more casual Part 12.1 process.
30 Coronado990 : flycpair, I would have thought that SFO would have been one of your first markets from CLD based on the above fact opposed OAK, which caters to the LC
31 futureualpilot : Best of luck, as a north county San Diego native I can't wait to see/join you guys!
32 flycpair : There are several reasons Oakland was chosen over San Francisco as one of CP Air's initial destinations from Carlsbad, CA. Operational reliability was
33 Coronado990 : Absolutely! I can see that being on time is one less headache during your teething period. I'd just hate to see UAX jump in this route since I am roo
34 Post contains images TZTriStar500 : Sorry to hijack this thread a bit, but I cannot leave this unstated. While I am no huge F9 fan and certainly appreciate the history of this industry,
35 Post contains links and images multimark : I've always thought it was a shame Air Canada did not do retrojet liveries incorporating the various airlines that had been folded into it. And CP Ai
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