TPADave From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 59 posts, RR: 1 Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 12803 times:
Finally some progress on the int'l front at TPA! First the Cuba flights, now a ZRH flight 2x weekly from Edelweiss. I must admit ths was not the first route that I would have thought of, but hey I'll take it! I believe Edelweiss already operates out of MCO, will this be in addition or will they discontinue the MCO route? Can't wait to see it in person!
TPADave From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 59 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12372 times:
Quoting BRJ (Reply 3): "...the first-ever nonstop service between Tampa and a major European air hub, Lopano said."
BA and Gatwick not considered a major European air hub?
I noticed that too...strange huh? I was also thinking about Condor and their flights to FRA a while back. While it wan't on LH, it does count as a flight to a major European hub. I guess he's trying to pump up the announcement as best he can.
kl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5064 posts, RR: 13 Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11953 times:
Wow, totally unexpected route.
And that for a small European country with not that many citizens. I guess Edelweiss is a charter airline, thus not having any feeder flights? I have no clue how they think to fill it twice a week, but good luck to them.
aviationmaster From Switzerland, joined Oct 1999, 2468 posts, RR: 36 Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11953 times:
Edelweiss Air had seasonal flights to MCO this summer and also used to fly to SFB and MIA a while back.
Quoting avi8 (Reply 6):
Does this airline have code share with Swiss Air? can Passengers make connections with Swiss aiir?
Since Edelweiss Air is a sister company of SWISS, all their flights are operated in cooperation with them. While this flight is basically a scheduled charter flight, passengers can also make connections when booked on LX's allotment.
BRJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 261 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11611 times:
Quoting ikramerica (Reply 10): Quoting type-rated (Reply 7):The sentence states "a major" European hub, not "THE major European hub". Using "a" indicates it could be one of many different hubs like LHR, FRA, CDG, etc.
Anyway, some do not consider England part of Europe, but a group of islands in the sea.
but that's the point I was trying to make. It's hardly the first-ever, but symantics will let you get away with just about anything.
nevertheless, always good to see new routes being added to any city! I would think this will work well with cruise traffic out of TPA.
NASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3134 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10767 times:
Quoting TPADave (Thread starter): Finally some progress on the int'l front at TPA! First the Cuba flights, now a ZRH flight 2x weekly from Edelweiss. I must admit ths was not the first route that I would have thought of, but hey I'll take it! I believe Edelweiss already operates out of MCO, will this be in addition or will they discontinue the MCO route? Can't wait to see it in person!
Edelweiss last flight to MCO was 2 Saturdays ago. As someone else mentioned it was originally supposed to fly to NRT, but due to the earthquake in Japan they flew this summer to MCO. The loads were decent out of MCO.
billreid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 910 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9853 times:
TPA also had MP, obviously AMS is not a major hub being only three times the size of TPA and having 17 times as many airlines! And yes London is in Canada. And FRA is in South America. Joe shoots from the hip with his loose cannon mouth.
ZRH on a charter is a huge tactical mistake with Looppie Loopano trying to save his neck with token service!
This kills any chance for FRA service going forward because going after that would kill the Edelweiss service that is highly dependent upon German demand. You don't ask one airline in and get another immediately afterwards to kill it. What is the reaction of BA. They never got 500K for single day ops, maybe Loopie should give them $3,500,000 marketing or they are going to be very pissed.
How does MCO feel about TPA first taking two BA rotations last spring and now the Edelweiss? Be careful for what you wish for, wouldn't be surprised to see BA leave if a price war erupts. Edelweiss only has four acft so if BA gets pissed then there is not enough capacity to adjust.........
Remember MP failed at TPA.
Remember DE failed at TPA.
BA was on the ropes without the AA alliance. Where does this leave BA, will they move to reduce fares to the EU with conx on AB?
Further will DL, UA, AA, US not adjust fares with daily hub flow? If so the once a week service with twice in peek is doomed!
If TPA wants to be a real International Airport it needs LH, KL, AF, not once weekly charters!
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
jonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 670 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9722 times:
Quoting billreid (Reply 22): If TPA wants to be a real International Airport it needs LH, KL, AF, not once weekly charters!
MCO NOW only has two of those, FLL has NONE, And a ton of other airports dont have those caeeiers but they are true international airports. Look at FLL, look how much international passengers they carry and they only have Condor 3X weekly. MCO also only recently got AF and somewhat LH. Yet were they not an international airport before? I think your definition here is a bit messed up.. TPA IS a true international airport because it has international flights to LGW, ZRH, HAV (albeit charter), Canada and a few Caribbean destinations. Seems international to me.
TPADave From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 59 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9553 times:
Quoting billreid (Reply 22): ZRH on a charter is a huge tactical mistake with Looppie Loopano trying to save his neck with token service
Why the personal attack on Lopano and overall negativity? His job is to bring in new service. So far so good. Like I and others have said, AF or LH would be great but it is what it is. At the end of the day its up to individual carriers to take the risk so I wouldn't call Lopano the one with his neck out.
Quoting billreid (Reply 22): This kills any chance for FRA service going forward because going after that would kill the Edelweiss service that is highly dependent upon German demand. You don't ask one airline in and get another immediately afterwards to kill it. What is the reaction of BA. They never got 500K for single day ops, maybe Loopie should give them $3,500,000 marketing or they are going to be very pissed.
That isn't necessarily true. LH serves a more business focused clientele, while Edelweiss is leisure driven. Coupled with the fact they have two separate route structures I think they could complement each other. Who knows, maybe if this service is successful enough it will push LH to launch a service of its own with more frequency and the Edelweiss service will be dropped. I'd consider that a win-win for both TPA and LH. As far as BA goes, that thought did cross my mind too. Guess we'll have to keep watching.
Quoting billreid (Reply 22): How does MCO feel about TPA first taking two BA rotations last spring and now the Edelweiss? Be careful for what you wish for, wouldn't be surprised to see BA leave if a price war erupts. Edelweiss only has four acft so if BA gets pissed then there is not enough capacity to adjust.........
What does TPA care what MCO thinks?! BA already serves both cities with 777 service and has done so for years. I don't think TPA is in danger of losing it over a 2x weekly charter carrier that barely competes for the same customer base.
Quoting billreid (Reply 22): If TPA wants to be a real International Airport it needs LH, KL, AF, not once weekly charters!
I'm sure Joe would appreciate the insight!
25 727LOVER: Because he is an SRQ fan, as am I, and he hates TPA. Times look great!! Why did the MCO flight operate so lste? WHY exactly would those carriers serv
26 flymia: They would not with MIA 20miles south. But he does have a point. FLL is the 14th largest international gateways yet does not have a major European ai
27 TPADave: Ah, now it becomes clear haha. That's too bad cause I really like SRQ and think the airports complement each other rather than compete directly on th
28 LONGisland89: Are you smoking crack?! Last time I checked Zurich is in Switzerland. What makes you think this service depends on German demand? That's like saying
29 LONGisland89: Since Edelweiss only has two A330s they are slightly confined to when they can schedule long-haul flights. The MCO flight was operated by the A332 th
30 727LOVER: Although I sort of understand, Im not the biggest RSW fan, ha ha. Are you referring to aircraft space or customs, because I KNOW two widebodies can f
31 srqmuc: Damn it! It's a step in the right direction but I'd prefer MUC over ZRH, SRQ over TPA and LH/UA/etc. over WK! Anyways, good luck to Edelweiß!!
32 ual757: As long as it doesn't clog up the security lines and empty concourses when I'm flying out of there, then a nice addition
33 PhilInBRN: This service could be quite succesful given the pretty big Swiss community in the Tampa-Sarasota-Fort Myers area. And the Germans in the area might us
34 SASMD82: Great Britain or United Kingdom include England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. And don't forget the Channel Islands as well as the Isle of Ma
35 ASA: I had the idea that the territories you described there together form the United Kingdom only. Great Britain, on the other hand, is the just the BIG
36 NASCARAirforce: Yes Ontario CYXU They partner with Lufthansa. When they checked in counters at MCO, they used the DLH codes to check in. A good portion of Air France
37 TPADave: Oh clearly more than 2 widebodies can fit on F at once simply on the basis of space. But I was wondering both about customs but also taking up US/AA
38 727LOVER: Ahhhhh.....yes, but remember, they can use the ex-UA gates at E for RON and besides, arent these intl departures gone before 8?
39 LONGisland89: Yes, I am aware that they partner with Lufthansa as well as SWISS but to say the route is dependent on German demand is bogus. Of course there will b
40 PITrules: Looks like they had nonstops to AMS, ORY, and FRA all at the same time: http://www.departedflights.com/NA050179.html This should clear things up http
41 TVNWZ: Actually, more like what SFB feels. I always thought there was a business in attracting the charters from SFB to TPA. It really is not that much long
42 Viscount724: No, if you check the timetable it was only TPA-AMS, continuing to FRA.
43 AZA330: Nice news for TPA. I was wondering if this new service could bother BA's TPA-Europe "monopoly" in any way. I think BA still offers a better service in
44 aviationmaster: The ground handling was done by LH. Edelweiss Air flights do not carry the LH code; they are usually in cooperation with LX, their sister airline. Th
45 billreid: Damn straight, Any airport that suggests staff all need to fly in First on trips over two hours are out of touch elite-ists, when we are all facing a
46 TPADave: I completely agree with you on that point. While Joe has said some stupid things, I don't remember seeing that in the press. Any quote available caus
47 727LOVER: Interestingly, I was telling a friend that LTU used to operate L10s in here but he doesnt believe me. Can someone confirm that? I have a pic somewhere
48 LONGisland89: Your sarcasm really shows your ignorance. I don't care what "data" you can amass, WK's business model is not dependent upon connections. My source at
49 aviationmaster: The only reason why WK flew to MCO this summer was due to the NRT flight getting canned after the earthquake ealier this year. TPA or MCO, I doubt WK
50 ZRH: This is not quite correct. Edelweiss is not a sister company of SWISS but SWISS owns it 100%. It is the holiday (charter) airline of SWISS Internatio
51 PlanesNTrains: How are "white house" and "spending the public money so recklesslly" GOP talking points? I would think it could apply to any administration from any
52 TransIsland: Your comparison with JFK-LHR and Irish demand suggests that you are less familiar with European geography than you are with crack. Have you ever look
53 TPADave: I guess it depends on your philosophy of the role of govt. This isnt the place for a political discussion and i was surprised that he would use his e
54 billreid: Nah. I just don't like to hate someone that is convenient target with a bulls-eye on his back! LOL Yes it is. There is not enough demand to fill a fl
55 LONGisland89: Well, If you look at the comment that I was addressing, It was stated that a USA-Switzerland flight was supported by German demand. Switzerland and G
56 dstc47: Good luck with this, TPA is a great airport which deserves better European links. Not too sure what this is the most viable one but here is hoping.
57 727LOVER: Then they should be throwing incentives at UA for a nonstop to SFO !
58 Viscount724: Only about 75,000 Swiss nationals live in the US based on the latest Swiss government figures. Canada has a far higher percentage of Swiss residents
59 TransIsland: How about the inconvenience of Ireland and England being seperated by water, and the fact that everyone in Ireland, no matter where in Ireland, will
60 mah4546: Yes, they are. Germany has grossly unfair taxes for flying, which sends many passengers across the border to Switzerland. Miami-Zurich is a huge loca
61 Viscount724: However, when they do that they have to pay their fares in very expensive (currently) Swiss Francs which I would guess in many cases would more than
62 LONGisland89: My JFK-LHR analogy involving Irish demand was pulled from by butt. How about someone stating a US-AMS flight is dependent on Belgian demand. Is that
63 ZRH: That's wrong. Switzerland is not part of the EU (fortunately) but it IS part of the Schengen Treaty. There are no border controls between Germany and
64 TransIsland: My bad. When did Switzerland join, because I'm fairly certain that last time I arrived in GVA by air from BRU, I had to go through immigration.... bu
65 TransIsland: Nah, more like saying flights in and out of MST depend on German traffic, or flights in and out of EWR depend on traffic from New York. Oh, wait... t
66 PlanesNTrains: I enjoy contrasting this: With the later part of your reply: Anyhow, my point was lost on you anyhow, and I have zero desire to engage in a political
67 TPADave: Whatever, I was simply responding after being questioned by you. I still maintain poltics weren't pertinent to this original topic. K?
68 ZRH: Since December 2008 is Switzerland formally part of Schengen. Now the airports like GVA or ZRH have Schengen and non-Schengen gates. At ZRH all A-Gat
69 billreid: Both these statements are absolutely CORRECT. It is amazing the number of people who use "made up on the spot statistics." Swiss traffic to TPA is no
70 Viscount724: There are still border checkpoints at surface crossings between Switzerland and France and random checks take place since there are still limits on i
71 LONGisland89: When I found out about Edelweiss launching this route 2 weeks ago, I had the same reaction that many of you had, including some of billreid's beliefs.
72 SandroZRH: If only you knew how wrong you are. Edelweiss is VERY popular with German pax. We do quite a bit of flying for WK and you'd be surprised how many Ger
73 LONGisland89: I respectfully agree with your input. Indeed, I do not have such credentials as being an FO at LX (for example) and as a result it appears to some as
74 phatfarmlines: I'm not going to get involved in the above catfight whether this will be viable to TPA or not as many valid points for and against service are made, b
75 NASCARAirforce: I agree. I think VX as it is growing will add TPA flights from SFO and maybe LAX too.
76 billreid: Please tell me, explain from an analytic perspective how the aircraft will be filled. I am not understanding where all the passengers will come from.
77 jonathanxxxx: People from Tampa going to Europe that are looking for the cheapest option, A few Germans crossing the border for a good deal, Swiss vacationers, Swi
78 billreid: You musta hit post twice? Never figured out why that happens... FLA outbound is about 20% of market to northern Europe likes of Germany, etc. That tr
79 bjorn14: Plus if I'm not mistaken package operators have much more influence in Europe than the USA.