RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3932 posts, RR: 19 Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5803 times:
I remember comments by some members on here back in 2004/5 regarding Lion Air's huge 737-900ER orders - "it'll never happen", "I'll believe it when I see it", etc etc. How times have come along.... and they haven't lost any yet either .
Today PK-LHY - their 50th new build 737-900ER - currently wings its way to Jakarta on delivery via Honolulu, Majuro and Biak as LNI01. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/LNI1
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4108 posts, RR: 13 Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5706 times:
Quoting RobK (Thread starter): "it'll never happen", "I'll believe it when I see it",
Totally remember that.
Congrats to Boeing and Lion Air.
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5599 times:
Does anyone (Mandala499?) have any perspective on whether the poor safety culture exposed by prior incidents has improved at all, with all the new pilots that this huge expansion must have brought aboard?
I'm happy for their growth -- I just hope it is happening safely.
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3932 posts, RR: 19 Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5507 times:
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 3): Does anyone (Mandala499?) have any perspective on whether the poor safety culture exposed by prior incidents has improved at all, with all the new pilots that this huge expansion must have brought aboard?
I'm happy for their growth -- I just hope it is happening safely.
I did start a thread about a month ago asking how Lion Air were doing in general but it received 0 replies so presumably isn't that interesting to others. Usually the mandala guy and the HB-IWC guy usually chime in as they both live out there and are involved with Indonesia aviation afaik. I will send them both a pm.
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 10470 posts, RR: 20 Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5486 times:
Beautiful photo, but the -9ER makes the engines look tiny. I can't wait to see the MAX version of the -9ER.
Also glad to see that with this 50th shipment to LionAir as well as the 100 frame DL order that finally the snide comments about the -9ER will be ending here on a.net.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5097 times:
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 3): Does anyone (Mandala499?) have any perspective on whether the poor safety culture exposed by prior incidents has improved at all, with all the new pilots that this huge expansion must have brought aboard?
I have long since lost count of the number of incidents the Lion B739ER fleet has been involved in. I remain to this day very skeptical as to the completion of this order. The airline is a mess by international standards and I just can't see the fleet grow to the envisaged 176 frames.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10687 posts, RR: 100 Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5071 times:
Quoting RobK (Thread starter): Today PK-LHY - their 50th new build 737-900ER
Congrats to Lion Air. I didn't realize they had grown so much!
Quoting travelhound (Reply 7): By ASK's Lion Air is larger than AirAsia. Who would have thought.
Ever feel asleep at the wheel? I totally forgot about Lion Air. Your link is for paid subscribers though.
mattcawby From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 199 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4907 times:
I remember when their first 737-900ER was rolled out in August 2006
mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6180 posts, RR: 74 Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4412 times:
Quoting RobK (Reply 4): Usually the mandala guy and the HB-IWC guy usually chime in as they both live out there and are involved with Indonesia aviation afaik. I will send them both a pm.
I blame RobK for my involvement in this topic!
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 3): Does anyone (Mandala499?) have any perspective on whether the poor safety culture exposed by prior incidents has improved at all, with all the new pilots that this huge expansion must have brought aboard?
I'm happy for their growth -- I just hope it is happening safely.
Safely??? Well, in July/August, the government grounded 12 or so of Lion's aircraft for "safety reasons"...
Well, what's the safety reason? Lack of pilots... last year it was found/alleged that the crew's annual hours (1050hrs) were busted, and then the monthly (110hrs) was found to be busted, and the grounding "to reduce the aircraft flying" is due to the weekly hour limitation (30hrs). In the end, they reduced the daily utility per aircraft to meet the limitations.
The airline expansion is severely curtailed due to lack of pilots, which translated into overworked pilots, and engineers, which translated into... safety. Hard work by "reformers" inside the company is improving things in many ways, but, the improvements can be done one step at a time. Let's hope these guys continue the improvements and not get thrown out by the "despicables" (ie: those preferring blatant violation of safety).
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 6): Congrats to Lion Air, "only" 125 more to be delivered then?
By ASK's Lion Air is larger than AirAsia. Who would have thought.
4.9c US$ vs 4.1c US$ ?
Lion is still very "manual based", Air Asia is very much integrated and automated... hence, they can go down and stay down in terms of cost... Eg: Lion Air still use manual flight planning, Air Asia uses computerized flight planning, the latter, allows performance optimization, fuel savings methods, etc, etc etc....
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9): Congrats to Lion Air. I didn't realize they had grown so much!
Well, it's the 50th 739ER they took delivery from Boeing. Doesn't include the used ones (some of which has been returned to lessor)
737CL: 9 (2 733s fully used, 6 734s nicely used, 8-9hrs per aircraft a day, and 1 734 on C-check rotation almost all the time)
737NG: 50 (and see above), utility is down from 8-9hrs a day...
744: 2, rumored to may leave the fleet soon, and both fly a total of about 10 (yes, TEN) hours a month together (not each!)
MD80: 2 + 2 spares + 2 on a looong C-check...
MD90: 2 flying (1 stored, lack of spares)
The ATR numbers are growing, now about a dozen of them... (yes, flies with Wings, but they're the same AOC anyways)...
The previous rumors are that they'll take only up to 60 NGs, (and they're trying to convert whatever else to 738s due to easier financing). And, what are they going to do with the rest of the NGs? Well, Lion Air Malaysia version 2 is now "in motion" (Lion Air Berjaya) they said.. the other ventures like in Australia, Vietnam, etc, seems to have collapsed. There is no way to take 178 NGs to fly in the low fare market here... and Lion's attempts to go asa fully fledged LCC has failed, and attempts to go full service has largely failed, with only a few routes that can support a business class for its clientelle... it's stuck in the LFC ground (Low Fare Carrier), and costs are just going to go up. So?
Maybe this is their current "solution" to "how to take 178 NGs?" http://bit.ly/rpv3oQ
Rumors are, that Wings are going to separate, and go into the Full Service market... ironically, originally, Wings Air was given the MD80s to become the LCC wing of Lion... but both ended up being dragged into becoming an LFC... Now with Lion unable to move into the premium sector (for various reasons), well, Wings Air's cleaner image, might be the easiest way to go and soak up the remaining NGs, and flood the premium market... *shakes head*
Anyways, it's good to see this bird (and the birds) in Jakarta...
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
RobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3932 posts, RR: 19 Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4293 times:
Good post from you as usual mandala, but I have a question on this :
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 11): 744: 2, rumored to may leave the fleet soon, and both fly a total of about 10 (yes, TEN) hours a month together (not each!)
Has the daily (or near-daily) JT111/2 to JED and back now finished then?
Also, do they use 2 separate crews on the delivery flights from BFI? They do BFI-HNL-MAJ-BIK-CGK pretty much non-stop except for fuel. They never lay over. See LNI1 past flights on flightaware.
Sorry, mandala499... I didn't recognize your link as the same as the one I posted.
"Maybe this is their current "solution" to "how to take 178 NGs?" http://bit.ly/rpv3oQ
Rumors are, that Wings are going to separate, and go into the Full Service market..."
Bluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3139 posts, RR: 8 Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4029 times:
Quoting RobK (Reply 12): Also, do they use 2 separate crews on the delivery flights from BFI? They do BFI-HNL-MAJ-BIK-CGK pretty much non-stop except for fuel. They never lay over. See LNI1 past flights on flightaware.
I believe they do use multiple crews, as there are about 8-10 people that deplane at HNL. They all receive an orchid lei from the Castle & Cooke Aviation handlers, and hang out in their lobby for a couple of hours. The shortest turn time I've seen was 90 minutes, but normally anywhere between 2-3 hours. Overnight delivery flights for Lion (or any other trans-Pacific 737NG airline) is a rarity, though Lion has pulled off several since they began receiving the -900ER. Lion is the only airline that makes brief fuel stops at HNL, everyone else overnights.
My guess was that they didn't want photos of the bird taken, but a lot of the BFI spotters & Boeing got pix out before delivery (as seen above in the thread starter). My guess is they may do the same for thier 1st -800 delivery too ...
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4277 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4003 times:
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 11): Hard work by "reformers" inside the company is improving things in many ways, but, the improvements can be done one step at a time. Let's hope these guys continue the improvements and not get thrown out by the "despicables" (ie: those preferring blatant violation of safety).
Thank you for the update!
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
planemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 5488 posts, RR: 34 Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3877 times:
Quoting Revelation (Reply 5): Also glad to see that with this 50th shipment to LionAir as well as the 100 frame DL order that finally the snide comments about the -9ER will be ending here on a.net.
Yes... they should be ending... but who knows what novel angle "someone" will take. After all, there was that thread about the 739 being dead in the water after 2015 because of the C919 & MS-21!!
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6180 posts, RR: 74 Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 3617 times:
Quoting RobK (Reply 12): Has the daily (or near-daily) JT111/2 to JED and back now finished then?
Well, finished more or less... one of the 744s may have had it's Lion titles removed (seeking confirmation on it).
Rumors are that the JED flights by Lion were just a ploy for Al Wafeer to get traffic rights to CGK to break the SV/GA duopoly... so, they financed 2 744s for Lion... the whole thing relied on charters/tours/group flights... GA still has the non-group flight market while Batavia has literally run out of pax (where crew can outnumber pax) to JED/RUH... AlWafeer has remained in charters, the alleged application for scheduled regular service to Jakarta never materialized or simply failed, and the group flights still fly SV and GA... Ironically, since AlWafeer's "initial euphoria", Lion Air's 744s have largely stopped flying to JED.... either this or.... There was an alleged visa scandal a few years back for the JED flights, reportedly involving Lion in one way or another. The result was Lion to continue flying JED, Garuda reducing JED from daily, and Batavia allowed to operate into JED... Since then, frequencies and utility kept dropping and dropping and dropping...
Safety may no longer be a joke at this company, but a heck of a lot of things are... (like their OTP, delay handling, and "let's spread the delay caused by an AOG all across the network" method of AOG response), and the customer disputes/complaints handling etc... (although 75% of the claims/complaints are bogus, but still a lot)...
So, while Lion has its 50th 739ER delivered, one question from previous topics have yet to be answered... "where are they going to park them overnight?", coz Jakarta is jam packed already, and has run out of overnight parking spots several times already... so has a few other cities...
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6180 posts, RR: 74 Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3123 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 18): The flights are NOOPS more often than not and the B744s can perpetually be admired parked at the cargo ramp opposite T1A.
Or at Apron G... nicely filling up whatever spare parking slots there are in CGK.
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 18): The aircraft are still sitting here with titles and all. I can see them from my office. Heven't seen any movement at all for the past couple of days.
Well, enjoy it while you can, they're heading off to Bangladesh soon for the Hajj flights so it seems...
Even with that though, I'll believe it when I see it!
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
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