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EasyJet F/A Fired For Reporting Jumpseat Ride  
User currently offlineChamonix From France, joined Mar 2011, 316 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17138 times:
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F/A sacked for complying with rules!
http://www.lematin.ch/actu/suisse/li...e-de-l%E2%80%99air-attaque-easyjet

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16999 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

And for those who don't understand French...

The article says that an Easyjet F/A had reported the pilot of her flight to company management, because he let a female passenger (also a pilot) travel in the cockpit jumpseat without a proper permit.

Management came back to her asking if she wanted to ruin the pilot's career and ground dozens of airplanes without reason. Also, they sarcastically asked her whether the lady riding in the jumpseat had a beard. Nonetheless, they sanctioned the pilot (the article doesn't say how). 3 weeks later, they fired the F/A. Easyjet provided as the official reason "bad attitude towards company hierarchy and the loss of faith that resulted thereof".

What do you think? My opinion is that this F/A was mad at the company or at the pilot for some reason, and wanted to have a little revenge. She definitely overreacted IMO. I feel a pilot still has the ultimate authority on board an airplane, and for sure an F/A shouldn't report him for something like that, spoiling the fun for everyone.

I understand security concerns and whatnot, but I don't think it's an F/A's job to rat out the captain, who acted based on common sense.



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4626 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16941 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
And for those who don't understand French...

Thanks so much for the translation!

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
What do you think? My opinion is that this F/A was mad at the company or at the pilot for some reason, and wanted to have a little revenge. She definitely overreacted IMO. I feel a pilot still has the ultimate authority on board an airplane, and for sure an F/A shouldn't report him for something like that, spoiling the fun for everyone.

You could take either side on this one.

One one hand, the F/A was reporting something that wasn't being properly done to internal Management (as opposed to reporting it to the papers, the Aviation Authority etc). If it's not permitted, it was probably right to be reported.

On the other hand, the Captain was clearly fine with the passenger riding on the flight deck, so that pilot may have been known to the Captain personally and so on - so clearly there was no risk and he's done nothing wrong.

I don't know what the actual rules are with regards to having people in the cockpit. I know it's not permitted - but what is the "proper permit"? Does the person have to be company staff? Can it be anyone with an airside ID (who have presumably been through a background check)? Is the proper permit an easyJet thing? I'd be interested to know.

As an aside, I think the cockpit restrictions are quite stupid and think that the Captain should have the say on whoever sits up there without having any restriction. I think a lot of pilots probably got a taste for flying from having a pilot let them sit up front during a take off or landing when they were a young passenger. It's a shame this is gone.



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5119 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16916 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
The article says that an Easyjet F/A had reported the pilot of her flight to company management, because he let a female passenger (also a pilot) travel in the cockpit jumpseat without a proper permit.

She was 100% right, rules are rules, especially when safety or security rules are broken this has to be reported.



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3416 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16794 times:
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Chamonix
You should have continued with the translation so we can get the full picture on this story.

The name of the F/A is Houda that puts her as of Arabic origin
While on vacation in Morocco in June she was called back to face an interrogation even an accusation of aiding terrorism about a threat to a Luton- TelAviv flight on June 15. She is cleared of those charges, so they came out with this stupid excuse to fire her.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1524 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16703 times:

I think she was right, this sets a dangerous culture; report rule breakers and your fired. What happens if next time the captain is having a wine... FA for fear of loosing jobs may say nothing.

I'm not a huge fan of rats, better way around them follow the rules.

Regardless of whether the pilot knew the pax or not or the rules are good or bad, he/she is an idiot in my books for risking his/her own career simply to let them into the flight deck, how much is their own career worth?


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16486 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 2):
the Captain was clearly fine with the passenger riding on the flight deck, so that pilot may have been known to the Captain personally

She wasn't.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 2):
One one hand, the F/A was reporting something that wasn't being properly done to internal Management (as opposed to reporting it to the papers, the Aviation Authority etc).

She also reported it to the Office fédéral de l’aviation civile AFTER EasyJet had investigated and the pilot had been disciplined. Which may explain why:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
Easyjet provided as the official reason "bad attitude towards company hierarchy and the loss of faith that resulted thereof



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineaceregular From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 675 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15982 times:

Only crew assigned to operate on that flight are permitted entry to the flight-deck. It is in the manual. Exceptions to this are crew who are registered with the company in advance, on a staff-travel commuting scheme. A lot of Crew in LGW, STN, LTN are actually from other countries and this facility means they can travel home should there not be a spare seat in the cabin. In my opinion she did the right thing to bring it to management for investigation but I am not surprised with the outcome.

User currently offlinecuban8 From Kiribati, joined Sep 2009, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 15720 times:

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 2):
As an aside, I think the cockpit restrictions are quite stupid and think that the Captain should have the say on whoever sits up there without having any restriction. I think a lot of pilots probably got a taste for flying from having a pilot let them sit up front during a take off or landing when they were a young passenger. It's a shame this is gone.

I share your thoughts completely. I'm one of these pilots who got a taste for flying at an very early stage riding in the jump-seat.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 6):
She also reported it to the Office fédéral de l’aviation civile AFTER EasyJet had investigated and the pilot had been disciplined. Which may explain why:

I also think that's the reason. We also don't know what happened during the flight. Was there any discussions between the F/A and the Captain after he'd granted the female pilot to join the flight-deck? Did she clarify her thoughts on the matter at the time?

With the information we have at hand, I think reporting the incident is correct. The question is. Did she go behind the back of the Captain when reporting it to the company? Did she go behind the back of the company when reporting it to the CAA? People don't like to be stepped on and it seems like she might have "jumped" a few heads by reporting this.


User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 14201 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 6):
She also reported it to the Office fédéral de l’aviation civile AFTER EasyJet had investigated and the pilot had been disciplined.

And therein lies the "rest of the story" if you will. I'd bet money this isn't the first time she has made waves. These types exist in every company. Reporting a rules violation is one thing. Beating a dead horse is another. Reporting it to the government, after disciplinary action had been taken, seems like a deliberate attempt to ruin the pilot's career, damage the company, or both.


User currently offlineaa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13899 times:

Is there some sort of legal relief available to her as a whistle blower?

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
She definitely overreacted IMO. I feel a pilot still has the ultimate authority on board an airplane, and for sure an F/A shouldn't report him for something like that, spoiling the fun for everyone.

Rules are rules. If you break them (especially big ones, like cockpit security), you're going to wind up paying the price.


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4626 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13528 times:

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 9):
And therein lies the "rest of the story" if you will. I'd bet money this isn't the first time she has made waves. These types exist in every company. Reporting a rules violation is one thing. Beating a dead horse is another. Reporting it to the government, after disciplinary action had been taken, seems like a deliberate attempt to ruin the pilot's career, damage the company, or both.

Agree with you 100% there!



I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlinekelual From Spain, joined Jul 2008, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12467 times:

Did she ruined the pilot career or did he ruined his own career by doing something he shouldn't?
The pilot should be taken responsibilities for his own actions instead of blaming someone else.


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9289 times:

I seriously cannot even believe some of the comments I am reading!

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
What do you think? My opinion is that this F/A was mad at the company or at the pilot for some reason, and wanted to have a little revenge. She definitely overreacted IMO. I feel a pilot still has the ultimate authority on board an airplane, and for sure an F/A shouldn't report him for something like that, spoiling the fun for everyone.

I hate to be the person to ruin your fantasy but the pilot DOES NOT have ultimate authority over anything. That pilot has a job flying the aircraft for a company who has very clear rules and he/she must operate within those guidelines or not at all. In this case the government also has rules that the company must follow and this pilot was unlucky enough to break those rules and therefore he SHOULD be reported to both the airline and the government.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 1):
I understand security concerns and whatnot, but I don't think it's an F/A's job to rat out the captain, who acted based on common sense.

How did he act based on common sense? This guy is obviously a lose cannon, he was willing to risk his job and break the rules to give some woman a ride, that is reckless. If this guy will break those simple rules what is to stop him from breaking the major ones, he needs to be gone.

If I were to witness it on a flight I was on I would turn the pilot in for sure.



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlinemjzair From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8150 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 13):
I hate to be the person to ruin your fantasy but the pilot DOES NOT have ultimate authority over anything. That pilot has a job flying the aircraft for a company who has very clear rules and he/she must operate within those guidelines or not at all. In this case the government also has rules that the company must follow and this pilot was unlucky enough to break those rules and therefore he SHOULD be reported to both the airline and the government.

Umm, you are the one that needs to keep your fantasy in check. The pilot has authority to run the aircraft, and everyone in it the way he or she sees fit.

Now, does that mean this captain was right in this situation, no, probably not, and the company went to extremes firing the f a,.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22721 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8086 times:

Quoting mjzair (Reply 14):
The pilot has authority to run the aircraft, and everyone in it the way he or she sees fit.

No. The pilot does not have authority to violate company rules/policies on a whim, which is what happened here.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4944 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7961 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 13):
I hate to be the person to ruin your fantasy but the pilot DOES NOT have ultimate authority over anything. That pilot has a job flying the aircraft for a company who has very clear rules and he/she must operate within those guidelines or not at all. In this case the government also has rules that the company must follow and this pilot was unlucky enough to break those rules and therefore he SHOULD be reported to both the airline and the government.

Oh here we go again.....

The pilot in command (Captain) has the right to operate the aircraft as he sees fit even if it requires breaking an FAR. But if you do, you better be ready to explain your actions later. The Captain is the final authority. But the airline also has policies and procedures. It's up to the individual Captain to decide how to make what he needs to do fit with what the company wants him to do. It's a delicate balance.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22721 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7848 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 16):
It's a delicate balance.

Certainly, it can be. But how is it here? The company had a rule (which is probably a good rule, by the way). The captain broke the rule because he felt like it. Not because he was trying to operate in the safest or most efficient manner - because he felt like it. That's never acceptable.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7769 times:

" It all began on May 9 on a flight from Geneva to Amsterdam. Armed with his ticket, a young woman posing as "pilot for a private company," says Houda, asks to meet with the captain for the trip in the cockpit. "In accordance with the instructions, I refused and went to the passenger seat," said the stewardess. On arrival in Geneva, all the passengers disembark, except for one: the pilot, which meets with the commander. The latter then allows to come into the cockpit, the time of a Geneva-Paris and back. In the words of Houda, "we are trained to be paranoid!" Security, it borders on zero tolerance and that's good. The next day, Houda decides to inform the direction of the incident. For her, it's the beginning of trouble"

So the pilot given access to the cockpit was unknown to any crew - just a "pilot for a private company". IMO a definite security risk.

Wheres the union for this F/A? Whys isnt the UK press all over this



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineChamonix From France, joined Mar 2011, 316 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5774 times:
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Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 4):
Chamonix
You should have continued with the translation so we can get the full picture on this story.

Well,I was but then thought my thread starter was going to be deleted.
Anyway,ManuCH has done a great translation.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 5):
report rule breakers and your fired.

Indeed,whistleblow at your peril!
Houda was doing her job and should be proud.
Rules are rules.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 18):
Wheres the union for this F/A? Whys isnt the UK press all over this

Unions?What Unions?There are no unions with EZ.

There was similar clash between F/A and CM1 on AF which unleashed a war:

http://www.unac.asso.fr/upload/pdf/anatheme_anti_pnc.pdf

http://www.unac.asso.fr/mon-unac/tracts/anatheme-anti-pnc%85,1453.php

Google translation of the above link (.php)

What fly has bitten? Are they aware of the scope of what they write in their leaflets? The fact is that some of our colleagues have just undergone a public condemnation from a pilots' union, accompanied by an appeal to drivers to deny boarding to the PNC on their flights ...

As a result of events calling into question the safety of flight, several crew members were considered as part of their responsibility to report by REX in accordance with GEN.OPS Management System (security), severe abnormalities on flight safety which they have witnessed.

These irregularities have occurred during a flight to the United States, about 330 A in March.

Until then, nothing to say, the procedure. Following these events, the CBD had to report to his superiors, which started a sanctions procedure. As with any employee of AF, the CBD is assisted in this process by NTP staff representatives.

Last week we discovered with dismay that a pilots' union had just published pamphlet by comments on his mind-blowing concept of relations between employees of the company, but especially for a boycott of two crew members named or rather thrown as food to the mob.

Quote: "the SPAF, we consider that the entire crew is loyalty to the CBD and that he should reward this loyalty take into account the advice given to him ...." That some drivers or pilots' unions in this case have such an understanding of their job, the relationship between company employees and work on board, this is of little importance. As it gives them pleasure to believe these things and it does not hurt anyone, why not let them live in their fantasy world? This is more of the psychiatric couch, the psychiatrist or AF, which the union or social debate.

But with this challenge of names, the pilots' union went into another dimension. He just crossed a border built by the Penal Code.

The honor, reputation, respectability two of our colleagues are now challenged by the leaflet which encourages discrimination, distributed several thousand copies in the company, which forces us to respond publicly.

We solemnly ask the Directorate of the Company to act with great force to stop immediately pilloried the public employees of the company that can only escalate. The truth must be restored as soon as possible, two PNC just been blacklisted, if the boycott launched by the pilots' union (fortunately a minority) did not stop immediately, the consequences would be devastating for the company.

The cleavage between the NTP and other employees of the company is deep and old, but does not necessarily affect the safety of flight (whatever ...) However, the gap that the pilots' unions dig vigorously between pilots and other crew members begin to become dangerous. The consequences of a new disaster would be unimaginable for the tens of thousands of company employees.

The Directorate General and the President can not remain in their ivory towers, it is time to restore calm and serenity in this case.

Deviant behavior are ultra minority and the vast majority of drivers is largely up to the trust we give them. But that trust must be earned for each flight, sectarian ramblings of dangerous lunatics can not be condoned by the community. Until now, pilots have always been capable of self control and self-correcting problem behaviors. If this regulation no longer exists, the control will come from outside. Neither the pilot nor anyone gain nothing.

To this union, it is too late, he crossed the yellow line, now is justice and its attendant questioning and police custody that will restore calm. The impunity with regard to the behavior of thugs no longer in tune with the times, regardless of the status of individuals ...

Make no mistake combat: the defense of our community and each member is the business of professional organizations. Colleagues whose names have been soiled by a foul SPAF leaflet are supported and defended by an appropriate tool: a union and its lawyers. This case should not be part of relations between onboard crew. It should not be an excuse for individual litigation that could weaken the necessary coordination on board. Let us show us responsible, do not give in to provocations. Priority should absolutely stay FLIGHT SAFETY.



Leave it to your representatives, does not conflict individually, it would make nobody's business. In addition, we can not emphasize enough, these deviant behaviors are the result of a tiny minority of individuals.

PS: the gifted little message that the incredible courage to send abusive emails to our two colleagues: please, make the effort to write good French, it will make you look less stupid in court when the judge will read your emails aloud before the congregation.


User currently offlinefrenchpilot From France, joined Aug 2004, 84 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5181 times:

Guys.... I have met someone that knows the Houda girl personaly (works with her) and let me tell you, there might be a LOT more to the story than what is writen on that article. The article only takes HER side of the story, and she is apparently known to be quite a handful to the company. So do not be too quick to judge and glorify in this story...!


"Sur votre gilet vous trouverez un sifflet pour attirer les poissons..."
User currently offlinepacifique75 From Portugal, joined Oct 2006, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4414 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 15):
No. The pilot does not have authority to violate company rules/policies on a whim, which is what happened here.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
Certainly, it can be. But how is it here? The company had a rule (which is probably a good rule, by the way). The captain broke the rule because he felt like it. Not because he was trying to operate in the safest or most efficient manner - because he felt like it. That's never acceptable.

Exactly my thoughts! I am sure all F/As in every airline are well aware that the Captain is the commander of the aircraft
and is incharge of the operation and has authority over the rest of the crew...we dont need a constant reminder from some
posters who dislike F/As for whatever reason. However, as the aircraft is the company property and there are rules and regulations, operating procedures - so they have to follow the company and legal requirements.
Just because the Captain is incharge of everything and everyone onboard, he/she shouldnt be untouchable and get away
with murder.


User currently offlinechuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4353 times:

Actually the story is a bit more complicated than that.

The female pilot asked to see the captain, and was denied by this air hostess.
She flew to Geneva as a normal pax, and then spoke to the captain after all the other pax had disemblarked.
The captain knew the pilot in question, and agreed to take her jumpseat for a Geneva/Paris return flight that the crew were scheduled to do just after this inbound.

According to OFAC, the (Office Federal de l'Aviation Civile), there was no breach of flight safety or security rules. The captain was sanctioned on a disciplinary procedure internal to Easyjet for transporting a passenger with no valid fare/ticket (I guess she should have taken an ID90 or whatever to cover herself).

Apparently this lady was also interviewed by one of Easyjet's security officers following an alleged terrorist threat concerning a Luton-Tel Aviv flight. She was apparently not connected to this story, but the article doesn't explain how her name popped up in this case...

Basically seems like this lady managed to get herself involved in a number of bizarre stories...


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4944 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3767 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):

Certainly, it can be. But how is it here? The company had a rule (which is probably a good rule, by the way). The captain broke the rule because he felt like it. Not because he was trying to operate in the safest or most efficient manner - because he felt like it. That's never acceptable.

Simple, the pilot broke company policy and was reported for it. Like I said earlier, if you break a rule you better be prepared to explain why later.



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26361 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3608 times:

Quoting aa757first (Reply 10):

Is there some sort of legal relief available to her as a whistle blower?

Likely. Depends on the jurisdiction (looks like she worked for easyJet Switzerland) and what the actual rule was.

Quoting frenchpilot (Reply 20):
Guys.... I have met someone that knows the Houda girl personaly (works with her) and let me tell you, there might be a LOT more to the story than what is writen on that article.

Hearsay.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2975 posts, RR: 7
Reply 25, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3543 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
She was 100% right, rules are rules, especially when safety or security rules are broken this has to be reported.

Agreed. My company would have expected a perceived violation to be reported, would have investigated it, and we have a clear policy against retaliation even if the complaint turned out not to be upheld. We get training and coaching on this kind of thing all the time, including frequent ethics case studies being in the daily news clips.


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