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Kingfisher A Goner, Says Analyst  
User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2252 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 25584 times:

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report...yst-who-tore-into-ril-rcom_1587615

A Canada-based analyst who had ripped asunder the financials of Reliance Industries and Reliance Communications in July has now decimated the balance sheet of Kingfisher Airlines, virtually calling the company bankrupt.

Kingfisher’s auditors, B K Ramadhyani & Co, have said in their report (contained in the company’s annual report for 2010-11) that accumulated losses at the end of last fiscal ‘were more than 50% net worth.

The two analysts also cast doubts over Kingfisher’s accounting practices, citing the auditor’s report.


Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineairevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 894 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 23800 times:

Just booked a longhaul flight on Kingfisher. Hope they last for a while.... Servicewise, they are just fantastic!


www.airevents.com
User currently onlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3842 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 22718 times:

It is indeed amazing that the airline was never able to make a single dollar of profit after so many years.

As promising as the Indian market looks, many seem to break their teeth on it.
I'm guessing that poor financial planning and accounting have a lot to do in this, even though competition is fierce on these markets.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 22698 times:

Quoting airevents (Reply 1):

Hope it isn't too far in the future, or indeed if it is a round trip that you have adequate travel insurance should they go bust.


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 22508 times:

http://www.business-standard.com/ind...sher-delays-salary-payment/445794/

After government-owned Air India, Kingfisher Airlines has delayed salaries of its employees. The UB Group-controlled airline has not paid salary for July.

“We have not been paid for July. The management said it does not have the money, and has not given any date for the payment,” said a Kingfisher Airlines executive requesting anonymity.

Sounds like WHEN rather than IF. Be sorry to see them go. I admire them for high cabin standards



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8625 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 22473 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 3):
or indeed if it is a round trip that you have adequate travel insurance should they go bust.

After the huge round of bankruptcies in 2001 post the 11 September attacks ( Swissair, Ansett, Sabena, Canada 3000 etc) most travel insurers that I know of no longer offer cover against financial collapse.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineShmertspionem From India, joined Aug 2006, 453 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 22144 times:

Not surprising - everyone of Vijay Mallya's other business ventures went kaput. It was said the name "kingfisher" was a lucky for him cuz only the beer brand his father started had survived his mismanagement. Now it seems even the fates have to admit defeat to his ineptitude. It really as obvious for quite some time given his reported micromanagement.


Vi veri universum vivus vici
User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3401 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21887 times:

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 6):
Not surprising - everyone of Vijay Mallya's other business ventures went kaput. It was said the name "kingfisher" was a lucky for him cuz only the beer brand his father started had survived his mismanagement. Now it seems even the fates have to admit defeat to his ineptitude. It really as obvious for quite some time given his reported micromanagement.

Wonder if F1 fans should start worrying about the Force India team too then


User currently offlinemikey86 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20989 times:

Damn, this is just crap, I am in the process of chasing a refund from them for some clients, happy times for me ahead!


mikey86 - Greenslopes, Queensland
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8494 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19780 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

How can Kingfisher's parent United Breweries be broke? The largest brewery in India is a license to print money.

User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19174 times:

Seems like oneworld is excellent in choosing partners should Kingfisher go bankrupt. First Mexicana, second Kingfisher. Who's next?

User currently offlinesofianec From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 241 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18600 times:

Do they have an equivalent of Chapter 11 in India. Since obviously Kingfisher expanded vigorously and set very high service standards that took huge capital to achieve. A Chapter 11 or the equivalent may help to reorganize the company, delay or restructure debt and help Kingfisher to emerge a leaner operation.

The market is surely there and the growth in India is phenomenal - certainly investors in IT will make a big mistake to allow the airline to fold.

---



A350WARP
User currently offlineCassi From Hungary, joined Apr 2010, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18189 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 10):
Who's next?

MA may declare bankruptcy any day, because an EU ruling is expected very soon against its disputed state subsidies.


User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3401 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17881 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
How can Kingfisher's parent United Breweries be broke? The largest brewery in India is a license to print money.

IIRC UB doesn't actually own much of the airline as there have been several "debt for equity" restructurings menaing that the banks (original creditors) own nearly all of the shares.


User currently offlineanshuk From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2009, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17426 times:

Quoting Shmertspionem (Reply 6):
Not surprising - everyone of Vijay Mallya's other business ventures went kaput. It was said the name "kingfisher" was a lucky for him cuz only the beer brand his father started had survived his mismanagement. Now it seems even the fates have to admit defeat to his ineptitude. It really as obvious for quite some time given his reported micromanagement.

You couldn't be further from the truth. Vijay Mallya is one of the most successful businessmen in India, with the exception of the airline. Please do tell me which of his business ventures have gone "kaput"? UB Group one of the biggest liquor conglomerates in the world and Vijay Mallya has taken the company to dizzyingly successful heights since his father's time. I do agree he's messed up the airline. Big time. But that apart, please don't make wildly inaccurate statements. The very fact that you say "his reported micromanagement" proves that you know absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The Kingfisher brand of beer has grown massively under his leadership and is one of the 10 fastest growing brands in the UK. You have absolutely no basis to say that the beer brand "survived" his "mismanagement".

Rant over.

Back on topic, it would be sad if IT was to actually collapse. But I admit, the situation does not look good..


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17313 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
How can Kingfisher's parent United Breweries be broke?

United Breweries is not Kingfisher's parent. United Breweries Ltd and Kingfisher Airlines Ltd are two separate companies. They both are controlled by the same holding company United Breweries Holdings Ltd. I don't know much about Indian corporate structure, but in the US the finances of two different companies owned by the same holding company do not interact. Profits and losses eventually are rolled up into the holding company, but the subsidiaries do not share financials between companies - assuming India has a similar structure (which given the info we have is a safe assumption) Kingfisher can be completely broke and United Breweries can still be hugely profitable.

[Edited 2011-09-19 06:56:28]

User currently offlinesimfanatic From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17314 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 10):

Have a look at MA and AB  



Don't be a fool, think about what you're writing!
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17111 times:

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 13):
IIRC UB doesn't actually own much of the airline

United Breweries Holdings Ltd. (UBHL) owns 60%+ of Kingfisher Airlines Ltd (KFA), according the corporate structure chart on their website.


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17024 times:

What aircraft does Kingfisher have on order and how will that affect A and B? Do I recall correctly that Kingfisher has the A380 on order?

User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 1 day ago) and read 16547 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 10):

Seems like oneworld is excellent in choosing partners should Kingfisher go bankrupt. First Mexicana, second Kingfisher. Who's next?

AA, but not until 2012


User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 23 hours ago) and read 15091 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 18):
What aircraft does Kingfisher have on order and how will that affect A and B? Do I recall correctly that Kingfisher has the A380 on order?

According to Airbus' latest spreadsheet, Kingfisher has 5 A380 (that basically everyone has assumed they won't be taking for years now), 5 A358, 15 A332, and 64 A320 on order (about half for Kingfisher Red). They also list 2 A345 still on order, but I am not sure about the status of those as Kingfisher (i.e if built and waiting for a customer) has rejected taking delivery of all its other A345s. They also have some ATR 72 on order. No Boeings.

Honestly it probably wouldn't affect Airbus all that much if Kingfisher shut down. They can easily sell the A330 and A320 slots, who knows if the A350-800 is actually going to be built, and after the whole A340 debacle, it wouldn't surprise me if Airbus is operating under the position that Kingfisher will not be taking the A380 (which could probably be quickly resold anyways due to their limited availability).

[Edited 2011-09-19 08:46:37]

User currently offlinegr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 14385 times:

Quoting anshuk (Reply 14):
You couldn't be further from the truth. Vijay Mallya is one of the most successful businessmen in India, with the exception of the airline. Please do tell me which of his business ventures have gone "kaput"? UB Group one of the biggest liquor conglomerates in the world and Vijay Mallya has taken the company to dizzyingly successful heights since his father's time. I do agree he's messed up the airline. Big time. But that apart, please don't make wildly inaccurate statements.

Exactly.....I was a bit surprised to read the post from Shmertspionem.....Vijay Mallya is generally known to be a highly successful businessman and most of his liquor businesses are doing well.....he obviously didn't add the touch to his airline venture....

Quoting airevents (Reply 1):
Servicewise, they are just fantastic!

But not very consistent.....my one and only flight on IT (HKG-BOM) last year was quite a dissapointment.....none of the high IT service that everyone talks about.....I find 9W's service on international routes to be far better......


User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3357 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 14248 times:

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 4):
“We have not been paid for July. The management said it does not have the money, and has not given any date for the payment,” said a Kingfisher Airlines executive requesting anonymity.

The staff have not been paid for JULY, how about August?
And they still turn up at work, amazing people!



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7676 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 14122 times:

I had no idea their situation was so poor. This may be part of why the Indian govt is looking to scale back competition from Emirates.

User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 14003 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 22):
The staff have not been paid for JULY, how about August?
And they still turn up at work, amazing people!

I flew Kingfisher last week, Mumbai-Bhubaneswar. For a domestic flight a decent and reasonably priced meal and friendly crew. But I couldn't help thinking if these flight attendants had by then finally received their salary. Loads were also good.

Anyway, I am flying with them again next friday: Hyderabad - Delhi. Hopefully, they are still around by then, and I can make it to my onward connection on KLM to Amsterdam!


25 NYC777 : So how long do they have till they're out of business?
26 744fan : Too bad they're not in the US. If an auditor said they were going to go under, they could get $500 million in loan guarantees from the governement!
27 GolfOscarDelta : I don't know about VJM's style of management but I'm sure about one thing: VJM had nothing to with the growth of Kingfisher beer, simply because the m
28 Post contains images readytotaxi : Have a quiet word with one of them and ask if they have been paid.
29 suseJ772 : This just absolutley amazes me! Can someone locally please expound on this? Is this a normal practice? Are they mad about it? I just can't see anybod
30 Post contains links readytotaxi : BA/IB Want Kingfisher (by BeyondBristol Sep 4 2010 in Civil Aviation) Posted 1 Yr 2Wks ago, Lucky excape perhaps?
31 AirlineCritic : Sad to see them go, if this is true. Their cabin experience is something else. Not so much service-wise, even though it was nice. But more attitude-wi
32 bill142 : You would think that IAG has the ability to turn IT around.
33 aviasian : With IndiGo now going international and already a major stakeholder in the domestic aviation scene, I think Kingfisher has its work cut out. Ahout Kin
34 SEPilot : You surely have heard how to make a small fortune in aviation? Start with a large one.
35 Post contains images jr : I think it was Damania. And of course there were Jet Airways and Sahara in that group as well along with a few others that never made any noise. Not
36 HAWK21M : Bad Management & non Accountable Managers...... VJM needs to hike the price of beer & replace his top & middle Mgrs to start a recovery.
37 ju068 : So if they go bankrupt, which airline would profit the most?
38 SKAirbus : I'd say the government owned one... India is so protectionist its untrue (and damaging).
39 Post contains images gr8circle : You're absolutely wrong on that count.....9W, Indigo, Spicejet as well as AI, would all equally benfit....I guess those used to IT's service standard
40 HAWK21M : It would be shared by all the rest. More serious would be unemployed staff ready to work for meager wages,that would drop the salary market.
41 Babybus : And don't tell me, they've just ordered 400 Airbus A380s and 300 787s? So much for the boom in the Indian economy.
42 Post contains images gr8circle : What's that supposed to mean
43 HAWK21M : Undoubtly you are not aware of what you are speaking.......This is not about the booming Indian Economy but a private Airline mismanaged by its team.
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