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777-8/-9 Two-phase Upgrade?  
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

I was thinking about the 777 re-engineering projet that is currently envisioned. What if Boeing did this in a two-phase operation?

  1. Use a new wing based upon the 787 wing, but scaled-up.

  2. Several years later, replace the cabin with a new CFRP design, but continue to use the wing from Phase 1.



  3. Is this even practical?



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5041 times:

I think that -ER models will just get the 13ft winglets are speculated and perhaps some engine upgrades. The completely new models, well, perhaps a wing based on the 787, chevrons, an engine output increase. Remember those GE-90-115B's are capable of producing 127,000lbs of thrust, but are only certified for 115,000. LED exterior lighting. Basically, it should be very 787-esque with the massiveness of the 777W.

But I'm really betting that the 777ER will get the winglet retrofit fairly soon.

UAL


User currently offlinebonusonus From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
I think that -ER models will just get the 13ft winglets are speculated and perhaps some engine upgrades. The completely new models, well, perhaps a wing based on the 787, chevrons, an engine output increase. Remember those GE-90-115B's are capable of producing 127,000lbs of thrust, but are only certified for 115,000. LED exterior lighting. Basically, it should be very 787-esque with the massiveness of the 777W.

But I'm really betting that the 777ER will get the winglet retrofit fairly soon.

Winglets? aren't these more efficient for shorter routes? the ER models do ULH. I think raked wingtips are much more optimized for 777-type missions.


User currently offlineSUNRISEVALLEY From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4872 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 2):
Winglets? aren't these more efficient for shorter routes?

I believe it is the reverse. For example NZ will have winglets on their trans Tasman A320's but not on the domestic ones.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4770 times:

Quoting SUNRISEVALLEY (Reply 3):
I believe it is the reverse. For example NZ will have winglets on their trans Tasman A320's but not on the domestic ones.

I guess it's a matter of economics. But then the A320 isn't capable of what the 777 can do, and I think if the A320 could be bought/retrofitted with raked wingtips, NZ would go for that option.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlinemorrisond From Canada, joined Jan 2010, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4619 times:

Or the other thought, is that if you were going to change the wingbox on the 777 anyways, and most of the systems, why not just use that new wing box/ wing with the 787 Barrel/cockpit/tail, which should be a bunch lighter than the 777. You do give up width as max you are 9w vs. 10W, however you may be able to go a little longer than 77W, as you would need new gear anyways for the higher weight, and you could design it to give you enough clearance. You may be able to sling 95K GTF's under the wing and outdue the 350 which is 9w (although with a little more room) as well.

The often speculated 787-11 and -12. How much smaller/less capable would they actually be? There would be lots of room in the belly for cargo.

Seems like a lot better plan than investing Billions into upgradeing a 20 year old barrel design, that is very space inefficient.

Put the 787 wing on the photocopier and hit 'enlarge', no systems to redo, other than new nose gear, no new interior to redesign, no new production chain to figure out, etc...


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4572 times:

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 2):
Winglets? aren't these more efficient for shorter routes? the ER models do ULH. I think raked wingtips are much more optimized for 777-type missions.

Then why are they being installed on the 767-300ER's and not raked wingtips like the 764? 764 does much shorter missions.

UAL


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

Raked wingtips create a lot more force on the wing, a, and b take up more gate space. So they're not quite so easy to retrofit.

NS


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4536 times:

Here you go:



UAL


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3969 times:

Quoting N328KF (Thread starter):
What if Boeing did this in a two-phase operation?

It's technically possible, but it would instantly double your testing costs (not an insignificant part of a program) and potentially piss off customers because it would introduce major mixed-fleet issues.

Tom.


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