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BA Exercise Two 77W Options.  
User currently offlinespeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16368 times:

BA have exercised two 77W options for delivery in 2013. That will bring the fleet to eight frames. Haven't seen this reported on here.

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16317 times:

They must be thrilled with the 77W, like practically every other operator. I'm sure it's a great 747 replacement for them--I bet we will see them order more in the coming years.

Btw, what was the original order, was it for 6?


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8290 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16006 times:
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Quoting washingtonian (Reply 1):
They must be thrilled with the 77W, like practically every other operator. I'm sure it's a great 747 replacement for them--I bet we will see them order more in the coming years.

SO where is the 30 plane order or 50 plane order ? IF Cathay can operate 60 77W's BA certainly can and more.


User currently offlineFlyingCello From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15962 times:

Why commit to the big order, when the drip feed is just as effective...BA are likely getting good prices, and can gradually build up without compromising the coming 787-10 / A350-1000 / 777X decision...the 747 fleet is still young enough that no urgent decision needs to be taken to replace them.

User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12411 posts, RR: 37
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15874 times:

Quoting FlyingCello (Reply 3):
Why commit to the big order, when the drip feed is just as effective...BA are likely getting good prices, and can gradually build up without compromising the coming 787-10 / A350-1000 / 777X decision...the 747 fleet is still young enough that no urgent decision needs to be taken to replace them.

I think this is right. Besides which, the 777-200 is still capable of flying virtually all routes on the BA system (it already flies the longest, EZE-LHR). Now, the question is this, I think: is the extra capacity of the 77W over the 772 going to generate significantly better yield/revenue? Bear in mind the wider macroeconomic scene; it's not that positive at the moment, from the UK's perspective (it is better from HK's perspective, which benefits CX), so the last thing BA needs to be doing is splashing out £x bn on a large fleet of 77Ws - particularly when the type is probably a "gap filler" in the long term picture (see the thread currently running on BA's long term fleet). Right now, the sensible thing is to take it step by step, in increments rather than a massive order.


User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15800 times:

Quoting FlyingCello (Reply 3):
the 747 fleet is still young enough that no urgent decision needs to be taken to replace them.

Well I don't know how many miles / cycles they have flown, but young enough is not a term I would apply to many, e.g.

Delivery Registration
15/11/1989 G-BNLE
28/02/1990 G-BNLF
21/04/1990 G-BNLI
23/05/1990 G-BNLJ
25/05/1990 G-BNLK
14/06/1990 G-BNLL
28/06/1990 G-BNLM
27/07/1990 G-BNLN
25/10/1990 G-BNLO
17/12/1990 G-BNLP

Which may have something to do with the A380 order and the current widebody replacement discussion  


User currently offlineFlyingCello From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15601 times:

Slinky,

Of course the existing A380 orders partially replace the early 744s...there was never any doubt about that. The current debate (see the other thread running) is about what replaces the rest...

If you look at the Boeing website, you'll find deliveries as follows:-

1989 - 5
1990 - 11
1991 - 3
1992 - 4
1993 - 3
1994 - 4
1995 - 2
1996 - 2
1997 - 6
1998 - 11
1999 - 6

So about half the current 747 fleet is from 1995 or later...those are the ones that are still 'reasonably' young...they can soldier on for a while yet, and BA are known for keeping older birds going well...

[Edited 2011-09-21 11:07:47]

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24917 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 15064 times:

Quoting FlyingCello (Reply 6):
So about half the current 747 fleet is from 1995 or later...those are the ones that are still 'reasonably' young...they can soldier on for a while yet, and BA are known for keeping older birds going well...

I remember flying on one of BA's first 2 or 3 747-100s on a LHR-YMX (Mirabel airport then handling international flights at Montreal) in July 1996 (in J class). The aircraft appeared to be in very good condition although it was then 26 years old and had been delivered when BA was still BOAC. Some of those BA 741s were 28 years old when finally retired around 1998.


User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 813 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 15010 times:

Interesting. I wonder whether these options are for growth or to replace 747s?

[Edited 2011-09-21 13:26:50]

User currently onlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8509 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14945 times:
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This seems just a top up, I don't see it as part or a large 77W order, BA will be looking at the A35J or 777X, that said, depending upon choice, more 77W's could enter the fold as an interim measure against 744 retirements.


111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21478 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14870 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
SO where is the 30 plane order or 50 plane order ? IF Cathay can operate 60 77W's BA certainly can and more.

Between the 787, A380 and 77Ws on order and options outstanding, they will cover the oldest aircraft needing replacement. 777s and newer 747s need replacing in another 5-15 years, so expect another order for aircraft based on their new bid request.


That means that there will be no large 77W order, A380 order, or 789 order going forward. Just a few here and there.

This is why you purchase options. So you have the option to take aircraft when you need them, in the quantity you need them, at a good price. Something the ME carriers don't seem to understand, with their massive orders with no options.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5621 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14645 times:

Quoting speedmarque (Thread starter):


BA have exercised two 77W options for delivery in 2013. That will bring the fleet to eight frames. Haven't seen this reported on here

Will these two be owned or leased frames?

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineworldliner From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14388 times:

Good news, I can see them operating a fairly decent 15-20 of this type not before too long. I think they'll get a sweet price and order a few more.


@777Worldliner
User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 881 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9176 times:

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 5):
Which may have something to do with the A380 order and the current widebody replacement discussion

In recent article I read that BA is planning to use the A380 on BA and Iberia trunk routes and very limited long-haul. They also had a renewed interest in the B748i, but given their love affair with the 777W, I think they will keep exercising options and we will not see any large order from BA.

Perhaps I should also post the link to the article, lol: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

[Edited 2011-09-22 06:28:39]

User currently onlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3331 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8966 times:

Quoting speedmarque (Thread starter):
BA have exercised two 77W options for delivery in 2013. That will bring the fleet to eight frames. Haven't seen this reported on here.

Any official from BA or Boeing on this?


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8714 times:

Re: fleet replacement, BA has so many choices. They're going to effectively have to replace 45 747s (the others being replaced by A-380s and these 77Ws) and 45 777s. They're going to already have the A-380, 77W, and 787 (-8s and -9s) in the fleet. So I'd eventually expect a combination of more orders for these aircraft, and a larger order for one of the aircraft that they are mentioned to be in talks for (777-9X, 787-10, A350-1000). That lineup will provide BA with one heck of an intercontinental fleet, and the ability to serve a wide variety of markets with the proper aircraft.

Quoting FlyingCello (Reply 6):
1989 - 5
1990 - 11
1991 - 3
1992 - 4
1993 - 3
1994 - 4
1995 - 2
1996 - 2
1997 - 6
1998 - 11
1999 - 6

Very interesting....Why so many in 1990? Were most of these growth aircraft or 1:1 replacements for earlier 747 models?


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7754 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 15):
Very interesting....Why so many in 1990? Were most of these growth aircraft or 1:1 replacements for earlier 747 models?

The early 747-436s were all growth aircraft. At the same time BA was also introducing the 767-336ER as a L1011 replacement (long and shorthaul), although some North American routes gained 767 service as an addition to a once daily 747 service.

If the First Gulf War hadn't killed demand in the aviation world, BA would have had a much bigger 747-436 fleet by the mid-1990s. 'British Airways', by Leo Marriott (First Edition, 1993), shows that BA had planned deliveries: -

* 1994 - 4 aircraft
* 1995 - 7 aircraft
* 1996 - 5 aircraft
* 1997 - 5 aircraft
* 1998 - 3 aircraft

This would have taken the BA fleet to 50, and all those orders were placed by 1991. With options at that time BA could have had a potential fleet of 88 747-436s!



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7563 times:

With the lack of slots at LHR, where they have flown them from? BA had fewer slots back in those days.


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7519 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 17):
With the lack of slots at LHR, where they have flown them from? BA had fewer slots back in those days.

More tag-ons though, which still used a lot of aircraft. A lot did replace the 747-136s, and BA then cut back on the firm orders in the late 1990s (I think it was up to 67?) in favour of 777s. It's one of the reasons they got RR Trent powered 777s, because they cancelled orders for RR powered 747-436s.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 813 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7438 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 17):
With the lack of slots at LHR, where they have flown them from? BA had fewer slots back in those days.

BA used to have 747s based at LGW.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7348 times:

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 13):
hey also had a renewed interest in the B748i, but given their love affair with the 777W, I think they will keep exercising options and we will not see any large order from BA.

I've not seen a single word posted about their "love affair" with the 77W.

NS


User currently offlinebongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3536 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7241 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 17):
With the lack of slots at LHR, where they have flown them from? BA had fewer slots back in those days.

The old routes to New Zealand and Australia used a lot of aircraft for litttle reward. Virtually three aircraft required to provide one flight per day.


User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 881 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6781 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 20):
I've not seen a single word posted about their "love affair" with the 77W.

It's not in the article, it is in what they are saying everywhere and the ongoing additions to more and more 77W's.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6718 times:

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 22):


It's not in the article, it is in what they are saying everywhere and the ongoing additions to more and more 77W's.

I haven't read that anywhere at all. I'm sure the plane is performing well for them, but 8 planes does not a affair make.

NS


User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6313 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 20):
I've not seen a single word posted about their "love affair" with the 77W.

You don't have to. It is very well known within BA that the aircraft's performance has been more than satisfactory (read love affair).

Quoting gigneil (Reply 23):
8 planes does not a affair make.

Tell that to Aeroflot and their former two 777s.

Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
25 Post contains images PM : "...more and more..." = they ordered two over three years ago and now (apparently) they have ordered two more. (The other four were leased from GECAS
26 VV701 : Total Time data is posted on the CAA 'G-INFO' web site. The latest data published for the above frames is: G-BNLE. 84,762 hrs as at 31 Dec 09 G-BNLF.
27 fpetrutiu : OK, how many A330's or any longhauls they ordered from Airbus in the same time? Except for the A380 which they delayed and they are in a whole new cl
28 Viscount724 : LH passed the 100,000 hr mark on a couple of their earliest 744s almost 3 years ago. An earlier thread said the first one reached that mark in Decemb
29 Post contains images PM : Do you know what a non sequitur is? You say that BA are ordering "more and more" 777s. I point out that this order for two is the first follow-on ord
30 GSTBA : I have just read a internal operations communication that does confirm speedmarque's original post. I have copied the wording to post here "By Februar
31 Baroque : That must be close to the fastest love affair and near divorce around. I suppose buying two at once was the problem - caused an exoectation of them br
32 Jacobin777 : Does that mean: B77W options taken? A380 options taken? A320 option taken? B787 options right taken?
33 GSTBA : LGW fleet replacement is meant be announced by end of year. The order will see the 19 737's replaced by up to 30 A320 Family aircraft. The order is e
34 Post contains images skipness1E : Now you've said "A318" we'll have a tangent about the new LCY megahub
35 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Thanks. . I was hoping for them to be replaced by other B737's... Interesting regarding the A318..
36 Vasu : All of them? ... Even the A318s?
37 speedmarque : I expect that new A32x will be delivered to LHR with LGW accepting "ex-LHR" frames.
38 777STL : And how does that all support your assertion of BA's supposed 777W "love affair"?
39 ikramerica : More than satisfactory is a low standard for love.
40 fpetrutiu : It doesn't it only goes to the previous reply that they had excercized only a few options. They are getting these options without even considering an
41 gigneil : Got it. You're correct, fanboy. NS
42 ikramerica : What airbus model would them consider? No A330 is that large with that range, the A346 is out of production and would be more of an oddball than a GE
43 fpetrutiu : So, you are admitting that Airbus has nothing to offer today that can compete with the 77W?
44 fpetrutiu : I admit, I am a Boeing fan, however, the A330 is my all time favorite plane. The jury is still out on the 787.
45 Speedbird741 : Nitpick any which way you prefer. That does not change the level of British Airways' satisfaction with the aircraft. How possible or viable do you re
46 ikramerica : I wasn't aware that I ever made a claim to the contrary?
47 fpetrutiu : You did not. Others on this forum seem to consider the A330-300 as a competitor. Either way, both are great aircraft. The A340 died the moment the 77
48 VV701 : In May 2010 IB converted options for five 320s into firm orders. It was reported that these aircraft would then be sold to BA on delivery. BA current
49 PM : Really? As a competitor for the 777-300ER? Eh? Well, why do you even waste time debating with such people? No-one with any half serious knowledge or
50 Post contains links Jacobin777 : Truth turns out somewhere in between: "The airline previously said that, despite ordering six Boeing 777-300ERs, it still is considering the A350-1000
51 PM : I think you are right. The eight 77Ws are a stop-gap, not the vanguard of a huge order for 30 or 40 of them. Outstanding though it is (for airlines,
52 BA174 : I wonder if NLE will out do old 741 G-AWNA as the longest serving BA aircraft of 29 years (retired 1998). I think BA will eventually take the full 10
53 parapente : This being an aircraft forum it is easy to understand why the empasis is what aircraft the holding company might order for BA.However another way of l
54 gemuser : Ah Hum??? Gemuser
55 fpetrutiu : Agreed. The 777's will have another huge advantage, they can interchange crews with the 787 with minimal training. Having one huse pilot pool and cre
56 fpetrutiu : True but mind you, when the article was written, there was no real hint of the 777X, and BA as still saying that the "777-300ER is a potentially obvi
57 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Quite possibly (of course, I'm completely biased towards the B777.. ). That being said, one must certainly look into this: AF/KL's order has shown th
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