Still it is good news that another very satisfied and important customer is seriously thinking of converting (a part of) their options into new firm orders.
Especially this sentence:
Quote: Das Flugzeug habe alle Erwartungen übertroffen. Passagiere und Crews seien begeistert.
or (translated): The airplane has exceeded all expectations"
is quite telling I would say. But LH is "just" another customer who is very, very satisfied with the performance and the experience the A380 is delivering. .
kl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 4994 posts, RR: 13 Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 6 hours ago) and read 22608 times:
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 1): or (translated): The airplane has exceeded all expectations"
Thats very good news for the A380's future as new queen of the skies. Maybe more airlines will order, now a quality airline like LH is stating its an even better then expected plane.
Steman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1278 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 21981 times:
The article says that LH has 15 options but I recall the options being only 5. Fifteen is the number of firm orders, of which 8 have been delivered so far.
If the options are just 5, it is highly probable that they will be all converted into firm orders, maybe for delivery after 2014/15
But I do not expect the fleet to grow over 20 examples, especially when there will be 20 (+20 options) B747-8i.
Still a big fleet!
EPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 3663 posts, RR: 36 Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 21629 times:
Quoting Steman (Reply 6): The article says that LH has 15 options but I recall the options being only 5.
As far as I can tell you are correct. On Wikipedia (not always the most reliable source) it is also stated that LH has only 5 options. Personally I thought they had 15 + 15 for their A380's (and 20 + 20 for their B748i's).
So it might be that is what they are negotiating about. Order more additional A380's then they hold options for. .
par13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 5918 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 21209 times:
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 1): is quite telling I would say. But LH is "just" another customer who is very, very satisfied with the performance and the experience the A380 is delivering.
Why the smilie, if the a/c is good its good.
Quoting kl911 (Reply 2): Maybe more airlines will order, now a quality airline like LH is stating its an even better then expected plane.
Is this a shot at other airlines who operate the a/c in addition to and before LH?
Quoting ju068 (Reply 3): Could this influence their committment to the new 747 in the future?
Sure, reduce the number, cancel the order or provide more proof that they can co-exist in their fleet as they server different markets.
Baroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59 Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 20759 times:
Quoting par13del (Reply 9): Quoting EPA001 (Reply 1):
is quite telling I would say. But LH is "just" another customer who is very, very satisfied with the performance and the experience the A380 is delivering.
Why the smilie, if the a/c is good its good.
You probably went over the weekly quota for observing that someone actually likes the A380 EPA100.
That LH likes it is good, but of itself not that much more remarkable than SQ. Where are the latest ones in the "slimming program"?
atnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 590 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 20403 times:
I for one hope the LH A380 fleet grows... Give it more time, the A380 will become more popular among all its operators and the order book will keep on growing.... I don't know why everyone loves to stick to the past... the A380 is the way of the present and future in VLA... I honestly think that LH won't be needing all 748i, and I wouldn't be surprised they don't take all 20 and instead use the A380 more... once they receive the aircraft, we'll know for sure what LH decides...
Hope to see more A380 with LH and looking forward to flying on one soon.
carls From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 518 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 20161 times:
Quoting ju068 (Reply 3): Could this influence their committment to the new 747 in the future?
I think so, If the 748 i has the same performance shortage that the 748F has it could lead LH to reject the plane just like Cargolux and Atlas are doing. While I do not know what the shortages are and I believe no body knows other then Boeing and Cargolux it could easily be that they are replicated in the passenger version too; pushing Boeing to either cancel the order due to the delay or just refusing to receive it.
Semaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 773 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 19715 times:
Quoting carls (Reply 14): I think so, If the 748 i has the same performance shortage that the 748F has it could lead LH to reject the plane just like Cargolux and Atlas are doing. While I do not know what the shortages are and I believe no body knows other then Boeing and Cargolux it could easily be that they are replicated in the passenger version too; pushing Boeing to either cancel the order due to the delay or just refusing to receive it.
I think you were referring to the Airline (LH in this case) rather than Boeing in your last sentence.
It would be quite interesting to see what the Boeing/Lufthansa 748i contract states regarding the issue of overweight/underperformance and LH's right to step back from the order.
Of course, it will probably boil down to the price dropping rather than LH cancelling the order, even though Boeing might make a loss on the 20 frames then. There is nothing worse for an OEM than it's launch costumer backing-off!
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
EPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 3663 posts, RR: 36 Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 19519 times:
Quoting Semaex (Reply 15): though Boeing might make a loss on the 20 frames then
With the launch discounts on the one side, and the enormous cost overruns on this program on the other side, I am guessing that Boeing will make a loss on these airplanes anyway. I think and hope LH will accept the B748i, and it will put a smile on my face if I see it in the around FRA where I frequently am for business. .
Ronaldo747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 319 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 18616 times:
1. LH has already stated that the 747-8i will doing well on the routes that is planned for. There will be no surprise prior delivery. And LH has no Al-Baker in the gremiums ....
2. Due to the stretched overdeck the 747-8i has better aerodynamics so the fuel burn issues will be partly outweighed. In the course of time and the further improvements the performance will be better than already expected and there are no doubts that LH will also exercise the options as well.
3. It's highly doubtful that LH is really seriously interested in A380-900s.
EPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 3663 posts, RR: 36 Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 18557 times:
Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 20): It's highly doubtful that LH is really seriously interested in A380-900s.
Well, maybe, maybe not. But it is highly doubtful that anybody can pre-order an A380-900 already or any time soon. I expect that to happen at the earliest in 2015 with and EIS close to 2020. But that is just my expectation, so I could be totally wrong or right. .
ukoverlander From United Kingdom, joined May 2010, 283 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 17836 times:
Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 20): 2. Due to the stretched overdeck the 747-8i has better aerodynamics so the fuel burn issues will be partly outweighed.
I seriously doubt that this will make any significant difference in the big picture given that any advantages this might give will already have been calculated and factored into Boeing pre-delivery guarantees for the passenger version.
Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 20): and there are no doubts that LH will also exercise the options as well.
And you know this how exactly?
Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 20): 3. It's highly doubtful that LH is really seriously interested in A380-900s.
Again do you have any fact to back this up or this this just speculation and personal preference dressed up as certitude????
flyglobal From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 507 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 17749 times:
I can easily imagine, that there will be no single order for A380. If so we may see the A380 together with A350s.
Also: I could imagine that LH may also trade their early birds on the used plane market after some 7-10 years and may achieve a fairly good price, given the previous discounts. They may want to get a good price for the next batch and may want that to secure rather now then later.
Or: I wouldn't be surprised if they would even be Launch customer for the recently mentioned 389.
Regards
Flyglobal
25 ikramerica: Could they put a proper C product in it now? The hard product is a disgrace.
26 nomoreRJs: Glad to see LH and the 380 doing well to the point of additional orders! Hopefully we will see this lovely bird at ORD one day in LH livery!
27 Stitch: I thought the topic was about LH adding more A380-800s, but since you asked, LH have already said that the 747-8 meets all contractual performance gu
28 nomoreRJs: It would be very nice to see ORD-FRA on 1X 748, 1X380, ORD-MUC on 346, ORD-DUS on 333, and ORD-Berling on something!
29 plunaaircanada: With that username I also find it highly doubtful that you would believe that LH is interested in the A380-900
30 tullamarine: Knowing they've sold 2 Y class tickets to FRA and back will undoubtedly tip them over the edge and force the purchase.
31 Jacobin777: LH has already been on record the past day or so stating that the Cargolux and Atlas situations will have no bearing on their decisions regarding the
32 RayChuang: I think LH wants more A380's because its routes from FRA to JFK, LAX and SFO demand such a big plane almost year-round (try getting a ticket on the FR
33 ju068: Sorry if this might sound stupid but what kind of routes are destined to be served by a 747-8? And why? Is the A380 to big for them or is there some
34 LipeGIG: I would even say that passengers are falling in love with the A380 and in general what i see is that many accept to pay a premium to fly the (very) b
35 Ronaldo747: You can call it "wet dreams" of some airbus fan boys that LH will cancel it's 747-8i. No doubt the A380 is a good plane. But the 747-8i will also be
36 328JET: They will not cancel their order, but maybe some of their options. (And convert them to the new B777-9X) There are rumours about good expected result
37 airbazar: At the price LH is getting these 748i's, it'd be a crime if they rejected their delivery LH has a huge gap between the A346 and the A388. They need a
38 oldeuropean: Yep, that's why I think that they'll stick with their 20 748. (unless they get a sweet price for 777NG instead)
39 na: Good to hear the A380 is performing so well. And good to hear, that LH is optimistic enough to consider more orders. Lets see regarding the options. M
40 EPA001: That is exactly what I am expecting regarding LH's future fleet as well.
41 PlaneHunter: Very good to hear LH considers ordering more A380s. So more than 1100 pax 777s have been ordered simply because someone ordered 34 frames in 1990. Wha
42 par13del: So is this type comment of them being a leader a ringing endorsement of Boeing's decision to make the 748i? I only ask because we are in an A380 disc
43 na: Theory? What theory? You want to understand me wrong, do you? I of cause mean anyone ordering 777s NOW is a me-too-airline. With so many ordered you
44 SEPilot: For all of the Airbus fans who are anticipating LH being disappointed in the 748i, remember that the A380 fuel burn also missed targets initially, and
45 PlaneHunter: You can twist it how much you want, but the 777 has proven to be an excellent aircraft - and that's why airlines have ordered it. Performance is the
46 Centre: It's LH, they are happy with the A346 which according to many people here on the forum is a piece of junk that should be put to death sooner rather t
47 airbazar: This is a past tense statement, which validates exactly what he was saying. The 777 "has been" a fantastic aircraft. But its time is coming to an end
48 Lufthansa411: I don't think there are to many people that do not accept it... the question is whether the 748i can bring the crowds like the A380 can. I cannot tel
49 PlaneHunter: I didn't deny that. I was simply pointing out why airlines have ordered the 777. PH
50 KPDX: Well I can tell you from experience right now. The biggest reason (bigger than comfort) the A380 is so interesting, is it's *wait for it* size! I can
51 goblin211: Yes, please! It's a good thing that LH is liking their planes b/c I remember an airline magazine article stating LH didn't get everything they wanted
52 Revelation: I'm glad to read that LH is considering more A380s. They're a great airline and can put the A380 to good use. For the customers, yes. For Airbus's acc
53 PlaneHunter: Well said! No doubt about that, it's a matter of time. And more and more people will realize that the A380 doesn't necessarily offer more comfort tha
54 oldeuropean: No, this is no novelity effect, these people are impressed by its size, to see this giant ("THE biggest airliner" was told to them) or having the ple
55 N14AZ: I will not find the link so quickly but I remember very well an interview with a senior LH fleet manager and he stated that LH would be interested if
56 Jacobin777: Tell that to CX, SQ and BA who have just topped up their 'me-too-airplanes'.... If it "was" a fantastic airplane why are carriers such as CX, EK,QR,
57 Semaex: I think you fail to see the topic of this thread. I go as far as saying that you might just be a little biased. In any case, please be aware that thi
58 par13del: So prior to the A380 being the largest commercial pax a/c were people all over the world lining up whenever a 747 pulled up at their airport? The Con
59 Jacobin777: If its the de facto standard plane in its class (which it isn't) then the past-tense "was" is thoroughly incorrect.
60 PM: Why so grudging? Why so sour? Yes, airlines will make a big song and dance about flying the 787 (here in Japan ANA already are) and so they should. N
62 astuteman: The A380 did NOT initially miss its fuel burn targets. It missed its weight targets, and the extra drag that could potentially have arisen was offset
63 EPA001: And as long as we do not see 11 abreast seating, the A380 will also hold that advantage for passengers in economy class. . Seating space is of course
64 PlaneHunter: I cannot agree. If you're stuck in a Y Class window seat (31 inch pitch, 17 inch width) next to two strangers on a 10 hour night flight and cannot ev
65 Aquila3: Not only they are happy. We are happy as well (as customers). The A 340 in general and the LH product in particular offer the highest comfort on a lo
66 Mortyman: When the A380 900 version enters operation ( and I say WHEN, because I have no doubt it will sooner or later ), there will be more cameras and public
67 mariner: I thought the thread was about the A380, too, but oddly it became about the 748i and then - even more bizarrely - it became a thread about how wonder
68 UALWN: It's also good if you're planning on listening to some music or watching a movie on your iPad. Try that on a window seat near the engines on a 777. N
69 Bralo20: The A380 will never be the queen of the skies, the whale of the skies yes, but not the queen of the skies, there's only one true queen of the skies a
70 airbazar: And most of those people will never set foot in one so your example is useless. The people who occupy the 100 seat premium seats are not flying on it
71 PEET7G: 1, I find it so pathetic that a topic about LH liking their A380s and possibly wanting more has became such a childish B748i bashing thread. 2, If we
72 Baroque: Thanks for the partial clarification. But I gave up on whatever the argument was about what seems a week ago. Not typical????? Been keenly waiting th
73 Semaex: "Never" is a word I would never use. To me, the Constellation is still more beautiful than any 747. And I bet a lot of people said the same along the
74 Revelation: No debate. My point is that airlines should not count on the novelty effect to make a long term difference in the bottom line. As did the 747 with it
75 fun2fly: What are the current LH A380 Routes with the 8 existing a/c? What are the plans for the 7 additional units?
77 genybustrvlr: As far as I'm aware, LH will configure the 748i with 80 J, meaning that it will be much closer in capacity to the A346 than the A380. Seems to me tha
78 Jacobin777: I've sort of lost what the context as well..
79 OA412: I thought this thread was about LH and the A380, not about the 777 and whether or not it's a "me too" airplane. Anywho, here's hoping we'll see the A3
80 fun2fly: Thanks for the info...great site for all things A380.
81 astuteman: And who's potential allowed it and its derivatives to sell for another 40+ years... Nice catch Rgds
82 lightsaber: I'm not surprised LH is considering extending the A388 order. I propose that they waited until: 1. The A388 proved its performance under LH operation.
83 GBan: I did. It is correct that the A380 is praised in the interview as exceeding expectations and being loved by crews and passengers. Negotiations for mo
84 columba: I guess while LH is talking about the A380 they also discuss two more things with Airbus, a possible A380-900 and a possible A350 order.
85 lightsaber: Since Airbus *just* brought A388 production up to speed, I suspect this is an A388 top off order. Airbus won't be ready to discuss the A389 for a few
86 SA7700: As another thread has been started, confirming LH's order for 2x additional A380's, this thread will be locked for housekeeping purposes only. Any pos
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