Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Frontier/Republic Part 27  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11439 posts, RR: 58
Posted (3 years 1 week ago) and read 19572 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

As the previous thread / discussion reach more than 250 posts making harder for users with dial-up & low speeed access, we are opening the discussion thread nr 27 for New Frontier / Republic

Link to the last one (#26)
New Frontier/Republic #26 (by Tigerguy Aug 19 2011 in Civil Aviation)


Enjoy the website

Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
259 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 19426 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I thought about responding to mke717spotter's question from the previous thread with regard to the job cuts at MKE, but I don't have much to add beyond what I've already said.

Post #258: "Does that bare any significance going forward as far as F9's MKE hub is concerned? (what's left of it anyways)"

I've said I wanted to see MKE sorted out and it is being sorted out.

The actual dollar numbers vary depending on which aircraft are being discussed for which period, but the latest numbers I have seen from Frontier are that he RJ short haul flying represents the majority of the YTD loss - tens of millions of dollars.

And what comes out of it is that the ERJ flying at MKE was a greater issue than the competition with Airtran/Southwest.

So what happens now? What is interesting to me is not what has been cut but what has been retained - and as happened at DEN, once it has been stabilized I would expect MKE to grow, but it might grow - differently.

It is different now, it isn't Midwest. As I said in the other thread, with hindsight perhaps the name should have been changed from the git-go so that was more clearly understood. But that would have been a whole other drama.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Rodolfo García López ( Mayan Aviation )



Dickie birds have been confirming to me that the Apple Vacations flying is planned to expand next winter (2012) and that opportunities exist within the contract for "joint flying," - Frontier scheduled - in the same way that DEN-LIR is "in conjunction" with Apple Vacations.

So I'll be interested to see what happens with the Apple flying out of MKE, which this winter remains all Airtran, as does PIT. I don't know how long the Airtran/Apple contract runs or how Southwest feels about that sort of charter work.

mariner

[Edited 2011-09-24 20:53:57]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3157 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 days ago) and read 19174 times:

service to JNU (Juneau) was discussed in the previous thread. I wanted to follow through with some data released Friday. Specifically the airline line item. To apprecaitate this report you have to understand the coach fare between SEA to JNU ranges from $500.00 to $900.00. The lower side of the range would be the super saver fare, an oxymoron IMO.

"The Juneau Economic Development Council has released its 2011 economic indicators report for Juneau and Southeast Alaska. Executive Director Brian Holst says they saw some positive economic signs for the Capital City in the report. He said from 2009-2010 what they see is Juneau's economy has rebounded very well from the national recession. People arriving here via Alaska Airlines was up 3.9%. Those coming by small aircraft increased by 17.5%. The number of passengers coming on state ferries increased by 6.6%"



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3157 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 19135 times:

This appears to be the Denver Broncos charter flight a 764 returning to DEN from BNA following today's game. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/COA1818

The identical flight # CO1818 flew from DEN to BNA on Friday Sept 23

[Edited 2011-09-25 15:49:04]


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 937 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 19109 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
I don't know how long the Airtran/Apple contract runs or how Southwest feels about that sort of charter work.

Charter work is always good work....But of course SWA really does not do much compared to other mainline carriers or low cost carriers like G4 and SY or am I wrong because I have always been under the impression that SWA does not really do charters expect for the NBA, College, and College Bowls....



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 19076 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The battle over the auction of the DCA/LGA slots is getting interesting, with the LCC's fighting amongst themselves now over the terms of the auction..

JetBlue and Virgin America have objected to the DOT's definition of "limited incumbent' (5%) and have instead said it should be the "below 20 slots" - well, duh! Guess who that helps.

They also oppose Frontier's eligibility at all because of the US Airways slots that Republic holds, putting RAH - but not Frontier - well above the 5%, although the DOT has given lengthy reasons as to why Frontier is included.

Southwest just wants them all - splat! - and in mega-bundles, with more slots divested and no restriction on how many bundles one airline can have. Ah, the joy of a fat wallet.

Frontier has come out swinging with a rebuttal:

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FAA-2010-0109-0145

(Click on the .prf icon).

All the other LCC's are in favor of smaller bundles and Virgin America has come up with a novel twist - that LGA slots should be available for use at EWR.

It's a neat ploy - LGA slots used at EWR would enable Virgin America to avoid the LGA perimeter rule and fly transcons. Can you say chutzpah?

It's a very good read and I hope that aspects of it work - of course. But I am not holding my breath. Unless the DOT changes the rules I doubt Frontier will win any slots in this auction and I'd love to see the bogeyman of the Republic owned/US Airways leased slots laid once and for all.

The sooner BB sells 'em back to US the better, I say.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1308 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 19053 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):
The sooner BB sells 'em back to US the better, I say.

So, Republic bought the DCA slots from US during their BK and then turned around and leased them back to US? Is RAH getting any money right now from the DCA slots outside of getting CPA flying for US? Lease money? Do you have any idea how many slots there are and what the value of the slots are? It seems US would be willing to buy the slots back. It's got to be valued at close to $50 million.

Maybe I'm confused. Is it DCA or LGA slots that RAH bought from US?

[Edited 2011-09-25 16:34:57]


Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 19032 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 6):
So, Republic bought the DCA slots from US during their BK and then turned around and leased them back to US?

Yes.

http://google.brand.edgar-online.com...51-60914&SessionID=HY2THSCK0tCVB77

"In September, 2005, we purchased 113 commuter slots at Ronald Reagan Washington National (DCA) Airport and 24 commuter slots at New York-LaGuardia (LGA) Airport under our commuter slot option agreement with US Airways. We assigned the right of use for these commuter slots to US Airways and these commuter slots are being operated by US Airways and US Airways Express carriers under a licensing agreement for which US Airways pays us rent. Prior to the expiration of the agreement to license the commuter slots, US Airways has the right to repurchase all, but not less than all, of the DCA commuter slots at a predetermined price. The licensing agreement between us and US Airways for the LGA commuter slots expired on December 31, 2006, but we maintain a security interest in the LGA slots if US Airways fails to perform under the current licensing agreement."

They've been a pain in the butt for the Frontier side because the DOT took the view that as Frontier was a subsidiary of Republic, and Republic held so many slots, it was not any definition of limited incumbent.

Republic has been fighting this and the DOT finally agreed and made an exception in the case of this auction, but I believe some may have been interpreted as a one time thing and Virgin America and JetBlue object to it anyway - as above.

I believe there is a plan to sell the slots back to US Airways, which would resolve the problem, but I don't know the details of it - whether it is all or some and whether it is both DCA and LGA.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3157 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 18666 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
US Airways has the right to repurchase all, but not less than all, of the DCA commuter slots at a predetermined price.
Quote/reference cited is from text not originator.

If I'm understanding correctly and not to confuse anybody more than I already am, these DCA regional slots are the ones Republic (RAH) holds discussed in previous threads as being owned by RAH when in fact they appear to be more of a quasi lease with US. I realize F9 holds four (I think) slots at DCA for the A319, A320 branded ops.

If RAH has any say-so in the matter I think it would be in their best interest to keep a few tucked away for a rainy day.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineQuartz From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 34 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18606 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
I believe there is a plan to sell the slots back to US Airways, which would resolve the problem, but I don't know the details of it - whether it is all or some and whether it is both DCA and LGA.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 8):
If RAH has any say-so in the matter I think it would be in their best interest to keep a few tucked away for a rainy day.
Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 6):
Do you have any idea how many slots there are and what the value of the slots are? It seems US would be willing to buy the slots back. It's got to be valued at close to $50 million.

On September 22, 2005, the Company and US Airways entered into a Slot Option Agreement (the “Slot Agreement”). Under the Slot Agreement, the Company purchased 113 commuter slots at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport and 24 commuter slots at New York-LaGuardia Airport. The purchase price for all of the slots was $51.6 million. The slots will be leased back to US Airways and will continue to be operated by US Airways Express carriers until the expiration or termination by the Company of the Amended and Restated Chautauqua Jet Service Agreement dated as of April 26, 2005 between US Airways and Chautauqua Airlines, Inc. or the Republic Jet Service Agreement, whichever is later, at an agreed rate. Prior to the expiration of the agreement to license the slots and after US Airways emerges from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, US Airways has the right to repurchase all, but not less than all, of the Washington and LaGuardia slots at a predetermined price.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...9154/000115915405000066/form8k.htm

Repurchase Option. US Airways has a right to repurchase (the "Repurchase Option") all, but not less than all, of (i) the DCA Slots at a price equal to the purchase price paid by the Company for the Slots and (ii) the LGA Slots at a price equal to the greater of the unamortized amount of the purchase price paid by the Company for the Slots and $1.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...9154/000115915405000026/form8k.htm

In summary, RJET bought slots from LCC for $51.6mm and agreed to lease them back for the length of the CPA agreement (Sept 2015, as this agreement has no termination clause). Prior to Sept 2015, LCC can buy the 113 DCA slots at cost, and buy the the 24 LGA slots at amortized cost. LGA slots are lumped together with other Intangible Assets on the balance sheet so I don’t know at what value they are being carried.

Hope this is helpful.

[Edited 2011-09-26 09:02:05]

User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6779 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18534 times:

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 6):
Is RAH getting any money right now from the DCA slots outside of getting CPA flying for US?

Yes. When RAH reports its results, they report on three segments: Branded, fixed-fee, and other. The "other" segment includes the license revenue from the DCA slots and aircraft sublease revenue. It is difficult to say how profitable the slot lease agreements are when compared to the cost of capital, since we don't know the exact terms of the slot licenses.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 8):
I realize F9 holds four (I think) slots at DCA for the A319, A320 branded ops.

The DEN-DCA flights use slot exemptions, while the MKE/MCI/OMA-DCA flights use slots (as it appears, a total of eight slot pairs).


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 18131 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It seems to me that Delta has always had two faces with regard to Republic/Frontier - loves fixed fee/doesn't love branded - and I wonder if we're seeing another example of that.

The old "rules of retaliation" by Northwest used to be very simple, at least with Frontier: invade any one of our hubs and we'll teach you a lesson you'd better not forget. Back off and so will we.

When Frontier announced LAX-MSP, NWA hit back hard, beefing up LAX-MSP and matching fares but also - with surgical precision, starting DEN-LAX as 3 x daily - which really hurt Frontier.

Within a very few weeks Frontier dropped MSP-LAX and within a few days NWA dropped the retaliation, most crucially DEN-LAX.

(Sadly, of course, Frontier didn't learn its lesson and a couple of years later expanded at MEM. Guess what happened - although on MEM-MCO it was Airtran, Frontier's then recently announced partner, that did the nasty).

So it's been a couple of weeks since naughty Frontier dropped MCI-MSP but - so far - Delta has maintained the retaliatory routes. They still could be dropped, of course, and maybe I'm being impatient, but I've always had an eyebrow raised about this - although I would be very happy to be wrong.

I've never been convinced that Delta will cancel the retaliation and if the rumors I'm hearing are true it may go the other way, although not necessarily aimed at Frontier.

I wonder if the supposed rules of the game have changed (if there ever were any "rules" in the first place) or if the target was ever only limited to MCI-MSP?

Three dimensional chess? Or is branded (Frontier) a really annoying gnat to Delta?  

mariner

[Edited 2011-09-27 11:42:26]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6572 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 18093 times:

Just for information purposes, the June loads out of MSY have been published...the first full month of DL on MSY-MCI. I was curious as to how well they'd do on a purely O&D, p2p route, competing with Frontier. Honestly, they did better than I thought they would. DL averaged 41.7 pax/flt in June (on a 50-seat ERJ), while F9 averaged a very strong 81.8 (on a 99-seat E190).

Airline........Segment....June.......YTD LF

Delta...........MSY-MCI...83.60%....83.60%
Frontier.......MSY-MCI...81.90%....70.00%

[Edited 2011-09-27 12:06:28]

And just for kicks, here's MSY-DEN...

Airline........Segment....June.......YTD

Frontier.......MSY-DEN...93.00%....86.50%
United.........MSY-DEN...87.90%...84.50%
Southwest...MSY-DEN...88.90%....81.50%


[Edited 2011-09-27 12:08:52]

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5440 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 18071 times:

Question for anyone who may have any insight into next year's F9 schedules: I notice that the SAN folks have recently removed "OMA" from their list of nonstop destinations served out of San Diego -- seasonal or otherwise; MKE is still listed as an "F9 Summer Seasonal" route. I just looked around as best I could at the online Frontier schedules for next April and May and saw nothing at all out of SAN except a few DEN flights.

I know it's many months out, etc., etc., etc., but can anyone offer any ideas about the future existence of SAN-OMA and SAN-MKE? (I'm tempted to suspect that F9 has informed SDIA scheduling not to expect to see OMA next year, and MKE? -- I have no idea what's going on with that. (And, just for the record, I HAVE officially given up on ever seeing SAN-MCI on Frontier.) Any insight would be appreciated.

bb


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1310 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17968 times:

The S.C.A.S.D. grants are out. Green Bay, Harrisburg, Santa Rosa, South Bend, and Toledo all received grants. Perhaps now we'll see F9 start service to these markets. All of these markets said they were targeting F9 service to Denver. (Green Bay received money to make DEN service year round)

[Edited 2011-09-27 14:18:00]

User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1310 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17952 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 13):
I know it's many months out, etc., etc., etc., but can anyone offer any ideas about the future existence of SAN-OMA and SAN-MKE? (I'm tempted to suspect that F9 has informed SDIA scheduling not to expect to see OMA next year, and MKE? -- I have no idea what's going on with that. (And, just for the record, I HAVE officially given up on ever seeing SAN-MCI on Frontier.) Any insight would be appreciated.

OMA-SAN seemed like an aircraft utilization route to me. MKE-SAN IMO, still could come back. There is no competition on the route. I would actually think that MKE-SAN would come back before MKE-SEA (due to FL)


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 17821 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 14):

The S.C.A.S.D. grants are out. Green Bay, Harrisburg, Santa Rosa, South Bend, and Toledo all received grants.

I'll settle for STS - Santa Rosa.  

Interestingly, Evansville (EVV?) gets a grant, too, for a revenue guarantee to Airtran for BWI service:

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/...irline-grants-indiana_8703731.html

"The U.S. Department of Transportation is giving grants of $750,000 to South Bend Airport and $500,000 to Evansville Regional Airport to improve airline service."

I dunno how that fits in with what Southwest has said about these things.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 13):
I know it's many months out, etc., etc., etc., but can anyone offer any ideas about the future existence of SAN-OMA and SAN-MKE?

It is indeed many months out and I would think there are "some issues" that have to be resolved first, such as the IBT court action.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5440 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 17783 times:

Thanks for the feedback guys...

I think for the time being and until proven otherwise, I will go with the lead of the SAN.org folks and assume OMA is a goner and MKE, well, maybe it'll be back in some minor capacity.

bb


User currently onlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 17576 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Finally some good news for F9 and SBN. The grant helps but a new terminal at SBN also figured into this. I really hope this pans out and I think it will. SBN will finally get the restored westbound connecting flights. (United used to serve this rout right after de-regulation but a B727 was a to big of an aircraft for it) F9's E190's are just right for this. Here is a link to the article.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/sbt-...ral-grant-20110927,0,5819607.story

I sorta knew about this for close to a year but I kept it under wraps until it became official..


User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17264 times:

Does anyone see any of the routes that MKE is losing soon possibly returning as more E-190's come on line? And a follow up question, what is the time line for the next few 190's EIS?


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 17199 times:

Not anytime soon on the 190's as we are deferring delivery until next year. And that is if the F9 is even still around. On the same side of things the pilots have all ready had a strike vote and it overwhelmingly passed with the pilot group.


I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 17135 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 20):
Not anytime soon on the 190's as we are deferring delivery until next year. And that is if the F9 is even still around.

They're being deferred largely because of the IBT law suit. Personally, I doubt anyone would put up money in this financial climate until the result of that is known.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1478 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17103 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 4):
Charter work is always good work....But of course SWA really does not do much compared to other mainline carriers or low cost carriers like G4 and SY or am I wrong because I have always been under the impression that SWA does not really do charters expect for the NBA, College, and College Bowls....

Southwest, because it doesn't fly red-eyes, actually does lots of charter work. This week alone we have charters operating daily for a variety of clients. We also operate scheduled service for vacation companies and these operate at normal business hours. I'd venture to say we operate several charters per week out of multiple bases.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17039 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 14):
The S.C.A.S.D. grants are out. Green Bay, Harrisburg, Santa Rosa, South Bend, and Toledo all received grants. Perhaps now we'll see F9 start service to these markets.

I also know GFK was looking for westbound service to DEN but they prefer UA



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineloggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 16939 times:

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 20):
On the same side of things the pilots have all ready had a strike vote and it overwhelmingly passed with the pilot group.

That's false. There has been no strike vote. There isn't even one scheduled yet. Not to say it wouldn't pass by a landslide, but we aren't to that point in the process yet.



There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
25 Post contains images enilria : I'd assume those planes are Embraer financed and even if they aren't Embraer has backstop financing. So, I seriously doubt a labor dispute is the iss
26 azstar : If FAR was not successful for F9, GFK definitely wouldn't be.
27 Quartz : This is my understanding too. The IBT lawsuit gave the ratings agencies cold feet and halted progress on the $70+mm ETC spare parts financing that wa
28 F9Animal : Wrong... Wrong... Wrong.... It is connected to the IBT suit, and it is as simple as that. In addition to the IBT suit, the airline is heading into th
29 Post contains links and images mariner : I shrug. It's out there. Article about potential STS - Santa Rosa - service, which isn't carved in granite yet because of present runway length. http
30 Post contains links and images mariner : And here's a fun snippet. In this thread, the always reliable LAXIntl says that Frontier gets an additional 1 x daily slot at SNA: 2012 SNA Slot Alloc
31 mcg : I was at MSO recently (alas, neither a WN or F9 served airport) and a WN 737 landed and taxied to an FBO. It was a trip from SEA returning some Monta
32 LAXintl : How about try a SNA-MCI. No other airline operates the route currently. That was the market YX flew back when it used to operate from SNA itself. A we
33 Post contains images GentFromAlaska : How about ANC-SNA year-around. I suspect the 319 has the range. Although I haven't checked in a while I don't think AS flies the route without a stop
34 Post contains images SANFan : And I bet I could guess what WN might then do with their new SNA-slot! bb
35 Post contains images LAXintl : Well LA-Anchorage is hardly a strong year-round market. Seasonal yes, but even in the winters AS only manages a single flight. For Frontier to enter
36 mariner : It's a valid thought. Knope2001 might have some perspective on that. I guess I'd prefer it isn't just another DEN frequency, for all sorts of reasons
37 JA : Very nice...it is not a bad place to Bring Your Undergrads.
38 smoot4208 : I could also see MCI-SNA. Perhaps it could be why they are reducing MCI-LAX
39 mcg : Perhaps a Long Distance Shuttle is called for?
40 Post contains images SANFan : I don't think of it as "WN doing a DL?" or of what WN considers a hub. But if WN sees a market in SNA-MCI, and they already connect KC very well with
41 ScottB : I think that for a new route from a Point Variously Untouched, it would make far more sense to consider Life After X-rays. SNA has better demographic
42 kingcavalier : My preference for the new SNA slot would be DEN-PVU-SNA-PVU-DEN on the E190
43 Post contains images mariner : In my ideal world, I would replace SNA with LAX - but for one thing. At several Points Variously Untouched - and not just in Utah - there are massive
44 GentFromAlaska : I'm not convinced SNA-ANC wouldn't work. It would sure be an outside the box initiative. In the fall AS offers an aggressive Alaska Perrmanent Fund (
45 Point2point : In a way, like it or not, or as unimaginative as this may be, this makes the most sense. Whenever F9 deviates from DEN, they seem to get burned (MKE
46 mariner : I'm not sure that I agree with that. I believe BB has said he is quite pleased with MCI and I believe the same may be true of OMA. I wouldn't include
47 mikefrommke : I will be next Friday, but it just happens that the intro fare and times made sense. I'm never flown an F9 E145 before either, so I figured I'd get m
48 Post contains images Point2point : I'm curious now......? Any bean spilling possible? I think that the sooner or later, one day, eventually, has to be when F9 gets themselves back into
49 mariner : It's a hornet's nest. Better to see what happens and if it does happen. For me, it's the sooner the better. There's no magic in all this. The disaste
50 Post contains links Point2point : Just saw an article about F9 at CAPA Center for Aviation and the cuts at MKE and MCI. Nothing really stated that most here don't already know, but kin
51 bahadir : How about SNA-DCA? That would collect pretty good premium.. If I am not mistaken TWA used to fly this route with 757s. Also, I ended up flying den-pvu
52 ScottB : You are mistaken. TWA flew LAX-DCA. It can't happen unless beyond-perimeter slot exemptions were to become available, and the existing slot exemption
53 mariner : Whoa - I don't know that they are. It was pure speculation on my part and the intro fares AUS-BKG are long gone. They may be, but it is what they bel
54 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I think he might have been referring to this: But who knows when the itinerary was purchased or what he paid. Hey, what about SNA-COS? -Dave
55 mikefrommke : It was only a few weeks after service was announced. Was priced below the AUS-MCI-MKE route at the time.
56 Post contains links mariner : Okay, it's out there. DL To Start LAX-DEN (by FL787 Oct 3 2011 in Civil Aviation) mariner
57 bjorn14 : Not a bad idea if you can get people to think that COS can be a gateway to the Summit County ski areas. They are almost (OK 40 mi.) as close to DEN.
58 ScottB : ...which doesn't speak well to the viability of the AUS/MKE-BKG flying on the E145, or it says that Frontier revenue management screwed up, in the se
59 mikefrommke : I think part of it is also the website. The scheduling engine will show one-stops like AUS-BKG-MKE when the plane and flight number is the same. Also
60 alphascan : I agree, its all about building up the LAX ops. I'd think these flights will struggle to be in the black on their own without factoring in incrumenta
61 rj777 : I just noticed something..... starting in Nov, F9 has non-stops FROM MKE-OMA on Sundays, but NO non-stops FROM OMA-MKE. Anybody know what's going on?
62 mariner : I don't think this LAX-DEN is retaliation. I can't think what it would be retaliation for. I first mentioned the rumor in connection with the MCI stu
63 mariner : It's a very interesting thing. Both AUS-BKG and MKE-BKG seem presently to be doing better than I had expected for the time of year. The two may be co
64 OzarkD9S : Nope, just DL providing another market for Skyteam connections. And DEN's international footprint is very weak for the size of the market. It's virtu
65 stlgph : Frontier to fly charter flights from Philadelphia for Apple Vacations
66 Post contains links mariner : The first of many, starting at PHL in a couple of weeks. There's an article about the PHL (CUN/PUJ) service here - a sort of vale USA3000: http://www
67 Post contains images Point2point : and the "dickeybirds" have sung. I'm just surprised that they didn't get RAH to do the contract flying....... edited to add: I would have preferred V
68 mcg : What is HUX? Thanks.
69 kingcavalier : HUX HUATULCO, MEXICO I believe F9 has flown that from DEN in the past.
70 ScottB : Not that this is your question, of course, but there were valid reasons for Apple to own its own airline -- or there were valid reasons in the past.
71 mariner : I agree completely, I think there were very valid reasons for Apple to start USA3000 - then. The flaw in the model is the inherent seasonality of the
72 Point2point : So next it could be DEN/MJB (this route really needs to materialize, there is more than enough O&D there), and DEN/HUX, but at about 2600+ miles,
73 mariner : Jeff Potter's rule of thumb was that the A319 has a range of 2500 miles with an effective commercial payload, so that puts DEN-PUJ outside the limit.
74 RJNUT : this is all good, but at least with USA 3000 one could book "flight only " thru the GDS/ online travel sites but the Frontier service has to go thru t
75 mariner : At the moment, yes, this isn't at-risk flying for Frontier. This is also the first winter of the operation and, as I said, the contract allows for fu
76 Post contains links Point2point : I think that maybe so.... Other long A319 routes (over 2700 miles that I can find) include SW JNB/ACC at 2906m (and a part of it overwater I would gu
77 mariner : This has been a long and very contentious debate, on this website and elsewhere. The claims that both manufacturers make for their aircraft (A320 and
78 Post contains images Point2point : I agree with you here..... it's the airlines flying passengers in these babies, not the manufacturers. And the discrepancy between the 4100m and 2500
79 GentFromAlaska : I suspect the 2500 statute mile limitation includes a safety buffer This route sounds like it could mirror the HNL-PPG flights I flew on a HA DC10. I
80 Post contains links Tigerguy : A little news: if, for some reason you were concerned about F9's safety, then, be less concerned. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fro...veted-iosa-re
81 n7371f : Speaking of safety...I noticed Sunday morning at DIA about 10 Airbus' or so parked along the east side apron of Concourse A. It didn't look like there
82 Point2point : A BIG CONGRATULATIONS to F9 and all of its management and wonderful employees for this. This issue of safety isn't brought up too often here, and I w
83 norcal : I don't know if this has been discussed yet but the according to RAH pilots on APC the furloughs have been cancelled. Enough pilots have volunteered t
84 Post contains links LAXintl : You realize being in the IOSA registry is SOP these days. If you are not accredited and maintain accreditation future years some other companies will
85 rj777 : Where's Southwest & AirTran?
86 Post contains links and images Tigerguy : We'll keep the good news wagon rolling here with some hot-off-the-press traffic numbers: Frontier press release: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fro.
87 LAXintl : I don’t know about Airtran, however Southwest several years back stated it would not seek formal IOSA accreditation as the program would have multi
88 Post contains images mariner : I would have thought the point is that Frontier - which wasn't - now is. It may mean no more than that, but it is at least that. mariner
89 FL787 : Is MKE-TPA no longer going to operate this winter? I don't see it anymore.
90 smoot4208 : That wouldn't surprise me if that didn't start back up this winter. Does anyone know when we might hear anything on possible service to STS, TOL, SBN
91 bjorn14 : Yes definitely but last I heard the 'babies' were going bye bye.
92 TZTriStar500 : Not yet. 805 goes in Sept. 2012, two in the fall of 13 and the last in 2014.
93 freakyrat : SBN has been talking to F9 for a few years now and is probably further along on this. Once all the details are worked out if this comes to fruition Bu
94 flyinryan99 : I don't think we'll hear anything from TOL for a while yet. I can't remember the time frame off of the top of my head, but it was something like star
95 FRNT787 : Hey folks, I am doing a project at school, and was wondering if anyone with quick access could give me the number of Frontier branded departures from:
96 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : This should get you in the ballpark http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx?Data=2 Type in the airline and the origin airport. After the page
97 FutureUScapt : That is indeed the case. This winter F9 will have operate the following schedule from MKE to Florida: 1x daily to MCO, 4x weekly to FLL and 3x weekly
98 Post contains links mke717spotter : Looks like F9 will have new competition to deal with on MCI-SEA in the form of AS: AS To Announce Two Routes & New City (by wedgetail737 Oct 10 20
99 floridaflyboy : If it hasn't already been mentioned, F9 will also be using the Airbus this winter on this route.
100 Post contains images point2point : What a neat site. Thanks. (or maybe not Thanks..... I was up all night playing with it and didn't get all that much sleep now.... )
101 mcg : I'm curious about football charter flights. I noticed F9 carried the University of Northern Colorado football team to Missoula for a game. The plane c
102 n7371f : When F9 chartered Washington State and Idaho out of PUW, F9 would often fly the Friday morning DEN-GEG leg, then have the 319 fly GEG-PUW. The Friday
103 F9Animal : Not worried about it at all. That is what I am hearing, but it is not official yet. The EMB 190 seems to be a fine airplane for this route.
104 mke717spotter : I'm not surprised to hear you say that because it seems like you always try to put an over-optimistic spin on anything that's not in favor of F9. I k
105 point2point : AS competed with F9 on the DEN/PDX route (along with UA and WN as well) and eventually AS gave the route up. Currently, AS and F9 compete in DEN/SEA a
106 Post contains images F9Animal : mke717spotter, am I supposed to be pessimistic about this? AS has not assaulted F9 in any way. AS is out to make a buck, and with WN pulling out, the
107 mariner : But it was as predictable as night follows day. The chances of Frontier having a (summer) plum route to itself were just about zero. When Frontier an
108 Post contains links mariner : Happily, there isn't much happening - although a couple of dickie bids have cheeped that there might be a minor thing or two in the next few days - bu
109 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : For those who may be interested here is the calendar year 2010 stats for airport ranking by passenger boardings released by the FAA last week. http://
110 DBCooper : Yes - 3 new routes to be announced on Friday. - DBC
111 kingcavalier : More Frontier route announcements Friday, Oct 14, 2011 07:55 Includes new D.C. and seasonal service, route adjustments Frontier is today announcing t
112 n7371f : Interesting attempt. Perhaps trying to establish something ahead of US Airways once they begin fortifying their DCA base. GRR was initially on US' li
113 kingcavalier : It says seasonal but I doubt it will come back. I guess they're still running BOS-MCI and the once a week BOS-DEN flight. It does say PIT is getting
114 mikefrommke : These are routes previously served via MKE so they have the connecting numbers that they are hoping will translate to nonstop passengers. I agree MKE
115 Post contains links kingcavalier : And other news from Frontier - they turned on their new home page for their web site. It has a new shopping calendar feature. It will allow people to
116 GentFromAlaska : Interesting they are using the valuable DCA slots for GRR and MSN! Other than Madison being the state capital is there connection between the cities
117 enilria : How many times has GRR-WAS been announced by different carriers? Isn't AAI/LUV flying BWI-GRR??? That's definitely a route that screams seasonal leis
118 Post contains images mariner : That was fun to wake up to. I'm been wishing for MCI-MCO as long as I can remember - I'm happy. And very pleased about MCI-LAS. I think the other two
119 ScottB : There is quite a bit of seasonal variation in the market, but being unable to retain BOS-MKE for the winter will make it progressively harder to reta
120 Post contains links mariner : There's an interesting curve ball just come up in the SNA Slot Allocation thread - post #23: 2012 SNA Slot Allocation Award (by LAXintl Sep 29 2011 i
121 smoot4208 : I'm shocked they aren't just canceling everything out of MKE. TPA isn't happening anymore, BOS is going seasonal, BKG is ending in December, the 3 rem
122 LAXintl : For its sake I hope not. We know how well F9 did in the high volume LAX-SJD market. F9 simply does not have the brand awareness or marketing to get t
123 mariner : Why gut? If there are "a handful" of routes that are profitable, fly those routes. MKE can probably support one full hub carrier, and I see no indica
124 Post contains images mariner : I wasn't necessarily thinking SJD - or even Mexico. It was my understanding that they are international gates, not just Mexican gates. mariner
125 LAXintl : The financial incentive and free slots are solely for Mexico services. The program is called "Air Service Development Incentive Program: Mexico" Some
126 F9Animal : I have a feeling that SEA will return for the season. The cruise season is meat and potatoes. As for the MKE hub, I am hopeful that F9 is able to sca
127 mariner : Yes, I understand that - I posted that. But if the international gates are there and if - always "if" - Frontier wanted to use its 5th slot for an in
128 LAXintl : If you are thinking about Canada for instance, that is a market F9 even today could serve without the Intl gates. Air Canada in the past, and WestJet
129 mariner : No, I wasn't thinking about Canada. And yes, I understand about gate utilization. I can only repeat myself: Clearly, SNA has built the gates in the h
130 Post contains links kingcavalier : "Frontier posts best on-time rate of DIA’s big 3 airlines" Nice recovery after July's hail storm http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...nver+%28Denv
131 ScottB : The winter schedule changes appear to be up now, and from looking at a typical Friday in March, it also appears that MKE-LGA and MKE-DCA both go to d
132 smoot4208 : MKE down to 36 flights. That has to be an all time low, however this was to be expected. I really wonder how much longer PHL will stay open. It's dow
133 mariner : Plus the flying for Apple which starts this week. mariner
134 enilria : Is it 100% that the E145s are going away? Is that announced or is it just obvious? I wonder how many of the 18 will remain...
135 Post contains images mariner : I'm really very pleased with what is happening to the route map. It is starting to achieve what I have been wanting to see for a number of years. The
136 SANFan : Such as OMA-California... certainly NOT returning in the winter apparently. bb
137 mariner : No, they weren't on my mind. But I would surprised to see either of the routes you mean return for winter. mariner
138 FreequentFlier : You're very pleased F9 is closing hubs in favor of day of week contract flying with Apple vacations? Wasn't the point of Republic buying F9 and YX to
139 mariner : I don't see much point in responding to that. I've already given my reasons, and I don't come here to fight. I am always astonished at the number of
140 mariner : And, speaking of hubs, a dickie bird - moderately reliable - has just told me that United has just cut another big bunch from its winter DEN (January/
141 FreequentFlier : Oy. And your response to my perfectly reasonable questions is why I generally don't bother getting involved in the F9 threads. Elephant in the room:
142 mariner : What's reasonable about saying "hubs have been closed"? Which hub has been closed? mariner
143 kingcavalier : I heard that too. My contact at UA said their DEN ASM's will be down 11% in January and 6.5% in February. That certainly cannot be bad news for F9.
144 joeljack : I know this is the Frontier thread but United has been killing me lately. My last 5 trips to the west coast have been OMA-IAH-(SEA/LAX/SFO or LAS) vs
145 Post contains links mariner : And here's Frontier going back to BWI - from PUJ. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FFT8516 BWI wasn't on the original 6 (US) city list and I believ
146 GentFromAlaska : For comparison I I flew and Air Trans Air flight 738 charter several years ago. Guantanamo Bay to Naval Air Station Norfolk. As I recall we were in t
147 Post contains links and images mariner : Gremlins in Flightaware? It's been changed to a three hour flight. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FFT8516 I don't know of an A320 can can fly for
148 bjorn14 : Maybe the airline couldn't get permission to flyover Cuba...there is an agricultural corridor that Cuba lets commercial flights use.
149 ScottB : They wouldn't fly over Cuba between BWI & PUJ; that's out-of-the-way. They're almost certainly not. With life vests & rafts, I believe they'r
150 GentFromAlaska : Some twenty years ago I participated in a high profile medevac/extraction for the Department of State which originated in Clearwater, Florida to San
151 TZTriStar500 : Correct, not ETOPS, but not required for Caribbean routings. All A320s are Extended Over Water (rafts, life vests, portable ELT). I'm not the avionic
152 n7371f : Passing through DIA this weekend I noticed an all-white Q400 on the tarmac. I believe this is N510LX which just got returned from a month lease to Hor
153 enilria : This is clearly a desperation/survival strategy. They have no idea where to put the planes and Apple will pay them a meager profit of 2 or 3% and the
154 mikefrommke : Based on your past posts don't you think survival is a good card to play? They are trying to become profitable. Last winter was brutal for F9. I'm no
155 sideflare75 : 6
156 GentFromAlaska : I ponder if using two or three of the Q's between PDX or GEG and YVR and Calgary and maybe Victoria Island service Keep one in DEN for ASE and mountai
157 pilotfox : Have any of the E135s or E145s been pulled yet?
158 Post contains images F9Animal : Yawn... The sky is falling! LOL! You are wrong yet again. Stick with catering. Dickie birds have been flying around my nest, and lots of very interes
159 Post contains images point2point : Time out please.... I meant to address this on another thread here, but I think that this here is as good a place as any. The last thing that I want
160 15A : Any ideas what pt toc (e 190 195) in full frontier colors is doing In BLR india ? Just saw it taxiing out here.
161 FreequentFlier : Yes, survival is obviously the ideal strategy, but Republic was a highly profitable company before these acquisitions and shouldn't be in a position
162 smoot4208 : I've always rooted for F9, especially ever since WN came into DEN. It seems that in this environment, any flying that guarantees a profit should be v
163 mariner : I think it is a mistake to think that 51% of the airline is - even potentially - for sale and I very much doubt, very much, that it wold be put on th
164 point2point : I think that we can add SAF, MHK, SUN (seasonal), and maybe PIC and SUX that might be good candidates as well here for ERJs that could work profitabl
165 mariner : Yes. Read it again. It says "the company's ownership of Frontier to a minority ownership" - the company is RAH. RAH must hold a minority position. FA
166 Post contains images point2point : Theoretically, I think that you can agree that RAH can sell any percentage up to 100% if they want. But more specifically, I would consider whatever
167 Quartz : Management addressed this scenario in the most recent 10-Q: "We believe that these allegations are baseless and that we did not interfere in the elec
168 kingcavalier : I am showing this schedule for MKE on Friday, April 27, 2012. 32 departures FLIGHT TO TIME A/C 1369 DEN 6:00 E190 1458 PHL 7:00 E190 1691 MCI 7:00 E19
169 floridaflyboy : The point is, they can't sell 100% if they don't own 100%. If the employees take a 5% stake in the company, that leaves RAH with 95%. To reach their
170 bjorn14 : Why would I want to do that when I can buy nearly all of RAH lock stock and barrel on the open market for that price?
171 slcdeltarumd11 : Frontier has lost money for so long now they need to do more than make a profit to surivive. They dont have the assets that AA has to make it thru an
172 freakyrat : Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 162): I still think adding more destinations out of DEN such as BTR, GDL, JAN, SBN, STS, MDT, FWA, FNT, TOL, GFK, JNU, etc co
173 enilria : It doesn't dig them out of the hole. It only treads water which doesn't solve anything. ...and I've answered before at length. I'll do the short form
174 Quartz : Good question. If it were that easy, I guarantee it would have happened by now as the fixed fee business alone is worth 3-4 times the current market
175 kingcavalier : Cutting loss flying isn't drastic? I don't know why it's hard for you to see opportunites or options for F9. Bedford has already stated he expects a
176 Quartz : What do you mean by this? I don't understand.
177 ScottB : Frankly, I still don't buy it -- for the simple fact that I do not believe that RAH management would push so hard for concessions when, in your compu
178 joeljack : I see OMA-LAX is back on the schedule starting April 15th. M-W-F 3x per week. I wonder what the plane will do the other 4 days of the week? Last year
179 Quartz : At the time, management was hardly in a position of negotiating strength. RAH gave up some upside in exchange for a higher chance of survival in the
180 ScottB : Except... fuel prices have come down, and the picture for the branded unit now would presumably be better now without the pilot concessions. And yet
181 kingcavalier : You seem to point out every pereceived negative business move, but I wonder what you would do differently. Is there anything that F9 and Bedford coul
182 SANFan : I've been kind of looking and wondering about that as well. OMA-SAN still shows on the F9 route map -- but then so does SAN-MKE -- but I know that th
183 mariner : Of course, it will much easier if they win the IBT suit, but losing it isn't the end of the this venture. It is the cornerstone of the FAPA agreement
184 kingcavalier : Not exactly true. Airplanes do not use the same gas as you put in your car. Bedford had this to say in August - So, as BB discusses, the refiners swi
185 Post contains images F9Animal : Wall Street is not going to influence a god fearing man. In fact, to be blunt, you have no idea what you are talking about. New routes are being adde
186 ScottB : For the DCA slots, I'd actually try running one-stops from MKE like MKE-GRR-DCA or MKE-FNT-DCA -- or I'd shift them to something like DEN-OKC-DCA dai
187 Post contains images mariner : Short of Frontier abandoning DEN, which won't happen, it is really quite hard for me to imagine a restructure as radical - drastic if you will - as i
188 Post contains images point2point : Thanks for this info. At everything that I've looked at, I haven't seen this. Should get very interesting. I think that F9 control is the issue that
189 kingcavalier : OK - That's fair. I don't know about keeping Florida flying in the core hub/focus cities, though. I believe that is the problem they have now. I beli
190 mhkansan : ^^ I largely agree with the above, but I think the Q400s ought to stay. The Qs would allow F9 to serve markets from DEN that UA would be uncompetitive
191 Post contains links kingcavalier : So true and many ignore this. The future is not all rosy for regional airlines and the days of high profit margins are numbered. Plus, there is no ga
192 enilria : It is not unusual to have bond covenants that have penalties that kick in when the market cap goes below certain levels. I do not know if RJET has su
193 mke717spotter : Honestly, I still think its going to be a struggle trying to fill an A319 on these routes, especially during the winter time.
194 mariner : I think there is something else at work as well, which is too often ignored - the psychology of it. We know he regards this restructure as the most d
195 kingcavalier : The Break Even Load Factor is currently 100% for the Q400 for F9's operation. Some of that is due to not having economies of scale. Grow it or get ri
196 kingcavalier : I'm not sure CO is even using the hangar in DEN now. UA has a bunch of unused hangar space so I don't see them needing the smaller one as well. There
197 mariner : That may be true, I don't know what's going to happen with the merger. But that was a key factor in the move - that Frontier wasn't given tax breaks.
198 CarsAir04 : Yes, but this same guy who made the decision to not give Frontier tax breaks is the one giving these other companies the tax breaks. Hickenlooper is
199 point2point : For the sake of all of the fantastic F9 employees, I'm with you here. Again, many variables in play here. It all primarily goes to whether or not F9
200 n7371f : Republic may, I emphasize, may be leasing out the aircraft. The first new E190 was already built and supposedly was being stored painted in full F9 c
201 ScottB : Except that history has already shown us other regionals which tried to take control of their own destiny and ended up defunct (ACA/Independence) or
202 n7371f : Several F9 frequent fliers I know have been told an app, or at least a mobile functional website, is in the works...
203 mariner : I know there is a school of thought that says it isn't legit (why?), but as others have noted, the IBT action caused the $70 million in lined up new
204 kingcavalier : Totally different business models and it has been discussed here before. You can't compare no brand recognition carriers like ACA, Mesa and ExpressJe
205 FRNT787 : My thoughts: I largely agree with you. I talked some about small focus cities being a big part of the company's strategy back when the NEO order was
206 PlanePainter : It's on demo and should be back in the America's by now. Has tail from the old F9/RAH N871RW (Mountain Goat?).
207 tztristar500 : While the company looks at aircraft spec sheets and fleet plans all the time, there is no official 'kicking of tires' of A321s with the exception of
208 Post contains links mariner : And - perhaps - one or two E190's as well?: http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=...984bea720954be063312&id=add3dac350 mariner[Edited 2011-10-18 1
209 point2point : Lordy, lordy, it looks as if though all 4 of the Qs, 5 of the E145s, 3 of the E170s, and 4 of the E190s are on the market there for RAH. Whatever hap
210 mariner : There's nothing too surprising in there. The Q's and E170's have been on the market for a while, and we know the E145's are going. And I don't know i
211 n7371f : The fact that Republic is now trying to off-load E190's it bought from USAirways a few years ago is surprising. No other way to spin that.
212 mariner : I concur with that. As I said earlier, I am particularly pleased by the balance between the less traditional and the more traditional routes. I have
213 Post contains images bjorn14 : How man hangars/bays was that project going to be? Thus you can have revenue from every inbound and outbound mx movement. I believe the E190 is the p
214 n7371f : The actual square footage for the hangar space was to be 30,000 square feet. If my math and memory are working this morning that would have been a 2-
215 Quartz : I have been involved in the bond market for decades and I have yet to run across a bond issue with a market value trigger covenant that you claim is
216 n7371f : ...one more thought on this. The E70's that are listed - 3 - may be the aircraft the BB said would fly for "another carrier". It was widely assumed t
217 Quartz : I accept that there are a variety of considerations for the pilots, and not all are ecomonic. The point I'm making is that the pilots should not igno
218 slcdeltarumd11 : New routes are being added out of pure desperation as MKE clearly was bleeding money and had to be slashed. Lets see how the next few quarters go and
219 mariner : Yes, indeed, MKE was bleeding money, and not just for Frontier, but what is "pure desperation" about, say MCI-LAS or MCI-MCO? Both are routes I've be
220 Post contains images point2point : I keep my fingers crossed for the pilots that they may realize their payoff. I think that we can agree is that all it takes is for someone to throw a
221 Post contains images mariner : And good morning to you. Yes, PSP starts 11/17 - seasonal, of course. Oddly, it's one of the few routes common with United where United has "reacted"
222 mcg : So what's the story on the 190's for sale? My perception was that the 190's were bedrock to F9's fleet plan, is that no longer true? Is there addition
223 mikefrommke : Its a good question. The airbus will always (well the foreseeable future anyway) be the heart of the F9 fleet, but the 190s are one of the ways RJET
224 mcg : I thought one of the big improvements RAH was to bring to F9 was the use of the 190's to allow F9 to reach markets that couldn't support an Airbus, w
225 mariner : That ad came to me from a journalist/blogger last week-end who asked me the same question, and this is what I said to him - and I could always be wro
226 mcg : Thanks for the info. I gotta say, I think the constant fleet churning that has occurred at F9 over the last couple years is really expensive. Why? bec
227 mariner : More expensive than without, of course, but - times have changed. Since I spoke to the journo, I've also heard from some dickie birds who have confir
228 enilria : I give BB no credit. I continually give credit to the poor front line employees who suffer from lower and lower pay, fewer and fewer jobs, and a dimm
229 mariner : There you go - putting words in my mouth again. LOL. mariner
230 mcg : What does cross default have to do with market cap? Unless RAH has a market cap covevant in some financing it's utterly irrelevent. If they have such
231 F9Animal : Sir, I would appreciate it if you would leave a persons religious beliefs out of your absolutely pathetic jabs. That is defamation, and I would cauti
232 Post contains images mariner : Here's one for the pro-Frontier folk - if they haven't seen it - the first arrival at PUJ: I guess PUJ doesn't care if it is scheduled or charter. mar
233 point2point : Nice pic..... I have a question about this though. It seems that the scheduled 1X to BOS is because of the charter that goes from BOS to PUJ. Is it p
234 mcg : Couldn't you just buy a ticket DEN - BOS and seperatly buy a trip on the charter? Might make baggage check a little unusual.
235 mariner : Frontier does not - yet - have DOT approval to fly scheduled BOS-PUJ (and may not apply for it) so I doubt you could book it through Frontier, but yo
236 enilria : You really think that comment is defamation? ...or you just want something to talk about?
237 PlanesNTrains : Who knows? Some people like to use big words and complex ideas to bolster their "believability". Unfortunately for me, I know neither big words nor c
238 smoot4208 : SNA-HNL/OGG seem to be on almost gone. Both are down to just once a week and may even be seasonally. Perhaps this could be an entrance for F9 with th
239 GentFromAlaska : PSP has been busy lately for the airlines. AS or QX recently announced SJC-PSP I believe it's a new route because not much happens unless the flight
240 PlanesNTrains : I don't think it's defamation. I just think it's repetitive, gratuitous, and self-serving. I would even go so far as to suggest it is meant to solici
241 ScottB : I suppose one could hypothetically do that, but it looks like the scheduled flight arrives BOS at 10:20 PM on Friday night. The aircraft then goes to
242 TVNWZ : No. , I just considered it rude and boorish, that's all.
243 Post contains images mariner : I don't even understand it. As an atheist who has studied several religions, I've always understood there is only one God - it is the prophets (or la
244 Post contains links and images Tigerguy : I don't chip in here often--mostly because I have very few facts to offer. I'm not in the know about much, except for what I read here. I'm just a hap
245 Post contains images F9Animal : Very well said sir! This is not the first time BB has been lashed on by this poster. There have been some comments in past, and I bit my tongue. I be
246 enilria : Of course, you just posted before that I was lonely and sad or something, so I'm glad you have taken the moral high ground on personal attacks. LOL.
247 PlanesNTrains : . Maybe no one cares to respond? What's the point? It's clear how you feel, and that nobody is going to change your mind. The reason you elicited a r
248 n7371f : I agree with you...and generally I don't agree with your nearly constant negative views on Frontier. The airline is clearly not being run as well as
249 mariner : I think Sean Menke is terrific - I've called him a young lion - but he failed at the most crucial level. He couldn't find someone to finance the airl
250 mcg : I agree with that very much. Much of the thrashing at Frontier over the last couple years has been really ineffective in terms of making Frontier a b
251 bjorn14 : BB went from relatively safe CPA flying to cutthroat branded flying....sort of like going from a centrally planned economy to a free market economy. T
252 enilria : It's well known that BB and SM butted heads a lot. SM butted heads with a lot of people. When he left BB must have said to himself, "No more debating
253 CarsAir04 : I am not familier with this person but would the CFO that just resigned from JetBlue be someone that might be good for F9? Like I said I really don't
254 mcg : That's a very good way to put it, but I think CPA flying has it's own cut-throatness as well. It's just different.
255 n7371f : Valid point. But he can run the airline and market it much better than what's going on right now. I would also argue that the most crucial point was
256 TVNWZ : Maybe the problem is Frontier is just not big enough to compete. When you look at all the airlines that have succumbed, the demise of Frontier is just
257 enilria : Anything would be an improvement, but I don't think that is the background they need. They would want somebody like Marty St. George at B6. I think h
258 tztristar500 : Both the neo MOU and CSeries order are through RAH, none of the individual carriers.
259 Post contains links SA7700 : This thread will be locked for further contributions as it has become quite slow to load for some users. Please feel free to join the continuation thr
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
New Frontier/Republic #13 posted Mon Aug 30 2010 09:29:27 by FRNT787
New Frontier/Republic #12 posted Mon Aug 16 2010 18:16:41 by FRNT787
Republic (RW) To Acquire Frontier (F9) Part 2 posted Wed Jul 1 2009 13:31:34 by Srbmod
New Frontier/Republic #26 posted Fri Aug 19 2011 15:59:17 by Tigerguy
New Frontier/Republic #15 posted Sat Oct 30 2010 14:15:27 by Tigerguy
New Frontier #11 posted Tue Jul 27 2010 13:43:34 by FRNT787
The New Frontier: #10 posted Fri Jul 9 2010 20:54:53 by knope2001
The New Frontier: #9 posted Mon Jun 28 2010 12:44:08 by FRNT787
The New Frontier: #8 posted Wed Jun 9 2010 16:07:07 by FRNT787
New Frontier Round #7 posted Mon May 31 2010 13:08:06 by FRNT787