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Will AA Fly To HKG?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12126 times:

Will AA fly to HKG? There are rumours about AA flying between ORD and HKG. Still not a reality after so many years. Will they fly from another city to HKG with CX's recent HKG-ORD launch?

AA never flew to HKG before right?

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4382 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12115 times:

I think they should. I think they will. And I think it will be from DFW on the 77W in late 2012.

JAL, being a shell of their former selves, just doesn't offer the same comprehensive Asian connectivity from NRT that they used to. I think its key for AA to utilize CX's strong SE Asia and mainland China network and that it's essential to fly their own aircraft there at this point.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12098 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 1):
I think they should. I think they will. And I think it will be from DFW on the 77W in late 2012.

Did they announce anything?


User currently onlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4382 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12080 times:

No, that's just my guess, more of a personal opinion of how they should do it. But I think it's a safe bet that DFW-HKG is at least on their 'short list'.

Also keep in mind there still may be the perpetual pilot issues associated with that, but that all needs to get resolved SOON.

[Edited 2011-09-25 01:49:49]


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12052 times:

The B 777-300ER is an option

User currently offlinenetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11912 times:

I've asked that question several times, hard to tell.

UA and Cathay are on the ORD-HKG route, there might not be enough room for one more.
Out of DFW they would have to rely solely on connecting traffic.
That leaves LAX.... Out of L.A their oneworld alliance buddy (cathay) has 3 daily flights

My guess, if they land in HKG, it'd be out of LAX

my 2 cents


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8286 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11671 times:
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Quoting netjetsintl (Reply 5):
UA and Cathay are on the ORD-HKG route, there might not be enough room for one more.
Out of DFW they would have to rely solely on connecting traffic.
That leaves LAX.... Out of L.A their oneworld alliance buddy (cathay) has 3 daily flights

With all the Cathay flights to ORD, JFK and LAX AA should fly to HKG from where CX doesn't, DFW is the obvious gateway city.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3123 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11640 times:

I can't imagine them missing the opportunity to fly from their HQ hub to the hub of one of their best and largest alliance partners. Just like I'm sure you will see them fly from MIA when they obtain the appropriate aircraft for the route. I also fully expect them to share or possibly take over the DFW-SYD route. Either proposed HKG route would have them being the sole operator.

The pilot issue could very well be resolved with a BK filing discussed and rumored here on other threads. AA must get past this pilot issue with ULH flights soon, one way or another, or they will miss the boat completely when it comes to ULH flying, they will becomes less and less relevant as a carrier and alliance partner.

They have not moved forward as quickly as UA & DL, despite the mergers, now they are playing lots of catch up, having to replace tons of old planes, not seeing a positive balance sheets even with JVA with BA & IB, that those carriers claim they are enjoying, as well as updating 777's to at least compete ( service wise ) with their big alliance partners.



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User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2351 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11586 times:

If AA does HKG, they need to go big and do both LAX and DFW. HKG, along with ICN & SYD needs to be part of their Asian expansion.

With that said, AA shouldn't even think about HKG until they complete any planned bankruptcy as well as introduce a new F and J product.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently onlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5621 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11414 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):
. I also fully expect them to share or possibly take over the DFW-SYD route.
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 8):
along with ICN & SYD needs to be part of their Asian expansion.

In the case of Sydney - WHY? What would AA gain from such a move, over and above the profit they currently get?

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11285 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):
expect them to share or possibly take over the DFW-SYD route.

AA publicly stated that Australia isnt in their plans.

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):

There have been rumors surrounding DFW-HKG at some point. I dont know how substantial they are or a timeline, but I think DFW-HKG will be a reality at some point. If nothing else with a 787 in 5 years, but maybe with a 77W in 2-3 years.

I cant see them going up against CX at LAX or CX/UA at ORD. DFW is the obvious choice. Given that there is no service between HKG and the Southern states, its not a bad bet. DFW-HKG has a decent sized local market as well (not huge, but not small either).



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinedfwrevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11274 times:

Quoting netjetsintl (Reply 5):
Out of DFW they would have to rely solely on connecting traffic.

Solely? Not at all. There is substantial demand for DFW-HKG O&D traffic.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11439 posts, RR: 61
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11176 times:

I agree AA should, and I think and hope AA will, fly to HKG in the future.

As others have suggested, I think the most obvious choice that makes the most sense for AA's network is DFW. The market between Texas and China is large and growing, and the plethora of connections a route like that would provide - at both ends - would be impressive. I think either a 77W in the nearer-term or eventually a 787 would make sense.

I don't think AA needs nor wants to fly LAX-HKG - Cathay already dominates the route and has an impressive franchise in the market; there's simply no reason for AA to mess with that. I think AA would much prefer to just have an ATI/JV with Cathay, but I don't think Cathay will go for that.

ORD-HKG may be a different story - I think that market could support another flight - not sure if it would be Cathay or AA. A morning ORD departure and later afternoon HKG departure would greatly compliment Cathay's existing schedule, and for that schedule, AA would make more sense from an aircraft scheduling/positioning standpoint - something along the lines of:

AA ORD 1000 HKG 1435 +1 77W
CX ORD 1525 HKG 2000 +1 77W

CX ORD 1145 HKG 1345 77W
AA ORD 1630 HKG 1830 77W

But alas, knowing AA, I don't see it happening. But I do still agree that DFW-HKG should and will eventually happen as long as Cathay stays in oneworld. I also do think that could and should be part of a broader AA expansion into East Asia, which should include DFW-ICN, LAX-KIX, and possible LAX-NGO, as well as a JAL 787 SEA-NRT.


User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11086 times:

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 11):

Solely? Not at all. There is substantial demand for DFW-HKG O&D traffic.

Very true. But a 77W (being the only a/c they'll have that can do that run) is a lot of airplane to fill, so they really would be best served to time the flight with the most dense arrival banks they can.

I do not see this happening for at least two years or more, given the issues WRT ULH flying and the flight crews, anyway. But when it does, it will be a great route for them I'm sure.


Also, I agree with the need for starting up ICN as well, but even with the huge Korean population we have here, KE still seems to balk at going daily. As well, AA has no alliance partner there, so there will be some trouble getting real traction out of the route. That said, twice or thrice weekly should be doable, I would think.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7506 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11087 times:

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 11):
There is substantial demand for DFW-HKG O&D traffic.

Its the one market in China that DFW generates more O&D to than IAH (its about 1.5 times larger).



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11021 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):
DFW-SYD route.

Could the 77W do DFW-SYD nonstop without penalties?


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10941 times:

UA and AA should just take the intiative and buy the A380 and make it super luxurious and provide top top service. By then the customers will come. 

User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2949 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10837 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 8):
SYD

No way. Why would you when you're on the verge of Australia's dominant airline (QF) who have half a dozen daily flights through LAX (plus HNL, DFW and JFK) and are widely accepted as being a superior airline to your own? Waste of an aircraft that I'm sure will be in high demand within their fleet...

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):
ORD-HKG may be a different story - I think that market could support another flight - not sure if it would be Cathay or AA.

Not yet -- it's already doubled in the last month. Maybe in 12+ months down the track once CX have developed a strong presence, and at that stage I think it's CX's game. AA would be a confusing addition IMO, and are better off paralleling CX's services from ORD with their own from DFW.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 15):
Could the 77W do DFW-SYD nonstop without penalties?

No. The range gain isn't all that substantial over the 744ER which goes via BNE with a reduced payload so I doubt it would be make it all the way to SYD without massive penalties.


User currently offlinelax777lr From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10760 times:

It's an interesting juncture for AA in OW with regards to who does the long haul hub-to-hub flying. Qantas brings SYD to DFW. CX brings HKG to ORD. I think AA needs take the ball and open up DFW-HKG when they have the capability to do so. I would hate to see them shrink to being a NA feeder to OW partners. Yes, I am reaching a bit here in long-term possibilities.  

User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10139 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 13):
Very true. But a 77W (being the only a/c they'll have that can do that run) is a lot of airplane to fill, so they really would be best served to time the flight with the most dense arrival banks they can.

I don't think so. Not only is there strong O&D demand for it, but I suspect AA would be able to gather connections from Florida and Latin America. As passenger, if your choices of connecting city were JFK, ORD, LAX, or DFW, which one would you chose?


User currently offlinedfwexecplat From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9577 times:

This same topic has been discussed incessantly....is it really necessary to start a new thread on this same topic every week? DFW-HKG/SYD..

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11439 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9515 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 13):
Very true. But a 77W (being the only a/c they'll have that can do that run) is a lot of airplane to fill, so they really would be best served to time the flight with the most dense arrival banks they can.

The local market is there, and the connections are definitely there. I think a 77W could work in this market.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 13):
Also, I agree with the need for starting up ICN as well, but even with the huge Korean population we have here, KE still seems to balk at going daily. As well, AA has no alliance partner there, so there will be some trouble getting real traction out of the route. That said, twice or thrice weekly should be doable, I would think.

AA generally doesn't do things 2-3x weekly, and I highly doubt they would open up a station and market with such an incredible long stage length with such a low frequency. Some have suggested that with KE now so relatively strong in the DFW market, there may no longer be room for AA - that may well be right. But - call me crazy (most people usually do) - I still think AA could make a daily 777 DFW-ICN work.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):
Not yet -- it's already doubled in the last month. Maybe in 12+ months down the track once CX have developed a strong presence, and at that stage I think it's CX's game. AA would be a confusing addition IMO, and are better off paralleling CX's services from ORD with their own from DFW.

I agree - I'm talking in the future, not now. But I do think AA/CX could support 2x daily ORD-HKG - the local market is substantial, with important business links, and the two hubs on either end are both massive. A second daily flight with the schedule I proposed above makes the most sense to me - and because of that schedule, AA would make more sense. Just hypothetical, though - probably never happen.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 20):
As passenger, if your choices of connecting city were JFK, ORD, LAX, or DFW, which one would you chose?

   Any day of the week.


User currently offlineHKG212 From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2008, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9173 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):
as long as Cathay stays in oneworld.

Why would CX leave OneWorld? Moving to Star will lose them the competitive advantage against most major Asian carriers, inlcuding SQ, TG, NH and OZ, and on the US-HKG market against UA (i'm sure UA would object to CX joining as they will instantly lose market share to their superior product). SkyTeam would make no sense with two of China's 3 major carriers now in that allicance. If you are referring to their part ownership by Star member CA, I wouldn't read much into it unless CA takes CX over at some point, which is highly unlikely. In which case I would argue: as long as CX remains in the rational hands of Swire, it will stay in OW.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 20):
I suspect AA would be able to gather connections from Florida and Latin America.

The Latin American link is vital, but as I have said in a different thread, once CX starts flying to MAD, the rationale to transfer via the US will largely evaporate.


User currently offlinedumbell2424 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 914 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8994 times:
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Quoting United Airline (Reply 16):
UA and AA should just take the intiative and buy the A380 and make it super luxurious and provide top top service. By then the customers will come. 

Yeah........no.

That would effectively kill off either airline.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8558 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
I cant see them going up against CX at LAX or CX/UA at ORD. DFW is the obvious choice. Given that there is no service between HKG and the Southern states, its not a bad bet. DFW-HKG has a decent sized local market as well (not huge, but not small either).

What about the market between HKG and Central/South America? DFW could certainly cater to that as well.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 13):

Very true. But a 77W (being the only a/c they'll have that can do that run) is a lot of airplane to fill, so they really would be best served to time the flight with the most dense arrival banks they can.

Given AA's low seat count, AA can certainly fly DFW-HKG with excellent payload/cargo. That being said, I think AA will probably serve B77W flights on "mature/trunk routes".

Quoting commavia (Reply 21):
But I do think AA/CX could support 2x daily ORD-HKG -

With the UA flight, that would be 3X/daily ORD-HKG. I don't see the market large enough for 3x/daily flights.

Quoting dfwexecplat (Reply 20):
This same topic has been discussed incessantly....is it really necessary to start a new thread on this same topic every week? DFW-HKG/SYD..

Why do you bother to respond then?    No one is forcing you to participate on this thread..  



"Up the Irons!"
25 gigneil : Hardly. NS
26 MAH4546 : I wouldn't put much weight on that statement. I would not be surprised to see AA in Sydney in 2013-14 depending on how ATI with Qantas develops. It i
27 LAXdude1023 : That doesnt surprise me. DFW-HYD/BLR are tech markets. Thats what I think too. Its a market that I believe would mature and grow with a flight. Even
28 gemuser : While AA DOES have bi-lateral rights to serve Australia, doing so would invalidate Australian approval (at least) for the Joint Business Agreement (J
29 Byrdluvs747 : Using that logic, AA shouldn't fly to LHR or NRT due to BA and JL having a superior product than AA. Also, AA and QF will have a JV/ATI established b
30 commavia : It's not the same comparison. I don't really see any substantive strategic need for AA to fly its own metal to SYD, short of perhaps aircraft schedul
31 CX Flyboy : There have been rumours in CX that DFW could be the next US city. Rumours also about AA and CX thrashing out an agreement about it. CX obviously want
32 Post contains images qf002 : The ATI specifically excludes AA flying to SYD under it. If AA wanted to fly to SYD within the life of this agreement then they'd have to do it outsi
33 United Airline : Why? In the 90s UA was considered as top top and they did very well. Yes indeed
34 gemuser : AA flying to SYD would kill the Australian government approval for the JBA. They MAY be able to get another one approved, but the current one would b
35 qf002 : Really? I was under the impression that airlines could operate outside of JV agreements (or similar) if they had the necessary clearance/permissions
36 MAH4546 : No, it doesn't. AA gave up no rights to fly to Australia. All it gave - and I have read the application - is a forward, non-binding statement that it
37 Post contains links gemuser : The consequence if AA was to start its own service to Australia would be the likely revocation of Australian approval of the JBA because the ACCC's f
38 HKG212 : Not sure where you get the 75% figure -- seems a bit high to me. I am well aware of these connections, being a frequent user myself, but holding a US
39 Post contains images qf002 : But you haven't read the JBA itself. That is a confidential and restricted document that has been seen by QF, AA and the regulators. The application
40 Post contains images wn700driver : I'm guessing you're being rhetorical, , but yes, Mighty 'D is the best choice among those, and not by a little bit. I really can't even see how JFK w
41 cx828 : With YYZ still can support 3 daily to HK, two by CX and one by AC, i think ORD can definitely support 3 daily. By the way, can cx 77W fly from DFW-HK
42 Post contains images UAL777UK : You love the big birds dont you. If you ran CX you would have them flying A380's or 747's domestically! All joking aside, If we do see AA going to HK
43 Post contains links MAH4546 : Absolutely not confidential. That is illegal in the United States. The document is available online at www.dot.gov. Even if assume that you are right
44 qf002 : Well it's confidential in Australia -- I'd be interested to read through the JBA itself but can't seem to find anything on the link you provided (I c
45 IrishAyes : I am trying to put my finger on where/from what you are drawing this comparison between Toronto and Chicago..... I mean they're both upper midwest ci
46 LAXdude1023 : YYZ-HKG is HUGE. They really dont need anything other than O&D at YYZ to make those flights work.
47 DFWEagle : You are exactly right with this, but it seems you can't see the forest for the trees. AA and QF do not compete with each other in the first place wit
48 IrishAyes : I'd imagine so. Big financial centers. Would have guessed connecting traffic was a large component, too. But perhaps this comes more on the YYZ side,
49 gemuser : IMHO you are not seeing the trees for the forrest! Agree This is the problem, they CAN NOT do this, because the terms of approval don't permit it. If
50 tundra767 : Would be great to see AA over here in HK. I fly often between PVG and LAX on AA and hear a lot that HKG will come. But alas rumors, believe it when I
51 DFWEagle : You seem very sure of this so I take it you can provide some evidence to back up your statement? The US DOT approved the JBA as it was proposed by AA
52 MAH4546 : Your impression is correct. The terms of the agreement are standard JBA terms, and AA metal on Australia-U.S. service would fall under the JBA. I've
53 Post contains links gemuser : Already given in reply 37. [QUOTE] The Australian decision is at: http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index...ml/itemId/987619/fromItemId/278039 . [END QU
54 srbmod : Since some of you have decided to hijack the thread away from the original topic, this thread is now locked. Any posts that appear after this locking
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