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Edmonton International YEG Second LHR Flight?  
User currently offlineflyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 686 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4415 times:

I was reading in the Edmonton Sun that the administration at YEG is planning for a second daily flight after terminal completion in a few months. This really caught me off guard as I would assume FRA would before a second LHR flight. They also mention they are hopeful for New York this doesn't surprise me as WS as stated publically they would like to add a flight. But the LHR is strange to me as I don't see AC doing that unless they want to add more capacity. I'm sure BA wouldn't invest in YEG.

That being said the article is from the Edmonton Sun, but they seem to be quoting Traci Bernard from YEG.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2011/09/2...campaign-targets-the-calgary-habit

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecyeg66 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 202 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4366 times:

Since they don't even have a year round daily flight right now, it might be a little wishful thinking on their part to expect a second one to materialize. Essentially, let the airlines make the the announcements, not the airport operators.  


slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
User currently offlineflyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

My thoughts exactly. Yeg has burned themselves so many times by doing this. They seem to always raise their catchment areas hopes with these statements. And piss off airlines

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25205 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4267 times:

Quoting flyb (Thread starter):
I'm sure BA wouldn't invest in YEG.

You never know. BA served YEG (and YYC) for a year or two in the early 1980s as part of their original service to western Canada, although only once or twice a week as a stop to/from YVR. L-1011-500s were used on those flights.

They dropped the YEG and YYC stops after a couple of years as part of major cutbacks when they eliminated service to quite a few secondary destinations to try to stem major losses. They also sold their L-1011-500s to the RAF as part of those cutbacks.

YEG's population has increased by more than 50% since then.


User currently offlineflyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

But now with BA flying directly into yyc with a ws code share I dint see them going head to head with just AC but with their route out of YYC. Again I know the loads out of YEG are great to LHR and AC has almost lauch 10x weekly service in the summer but it seems like a stretch. Don't get me wrong I wish yeg the best but this isn't even a target for them. Then again if the can't get a FRA flight this would be good anything is better than nothing. I feel they talk to much talk and don't deliver (eraa)

User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

I think it was meant to be going daily all year long...which should be well supported.

But I would think that such comment must be based on some dialogue with the airlines. But once again, where does the AC metal come from? My understanding is that AC is pretty much fully utilizing their 763's.

And if BA is indeed interested in serving YEG, I kind of wonder how AC is going to react!

As for NYC, United/Continental could run a summer seasonal service or even WestJet for that matter....I know this has been talked about for years now, but I think the new CEO at WestJet has decided to continue to build up the YYC hub and hasn't committed any major increases to YEG. In fact hey dropped SFO last summer in favor of YVR and YYC getting more frequencies.


User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2439 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

This "build it and they will come" attitude is such a cliche !

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 5):
My understanding is that AC is pretty much fully utilizing their 763's.

your understanding would be correct !

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 1):
Essentially, let the airlines make the the announcements, not the airport operators.

Absolutely !

Airport operators should worry about operating their airports !.....Let the airlines worry about which routes they decide to expand.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3839 times:

The Edmonton Airport Authority is a quasi independent organization that, by omissions made during its formation, actually has zero oversight by government. What they do with their cash or their properties is entirely up to them. The board can't be fired and basically have jobs for life.

YEG has long ago lost the 'Alberta's Airport' position to YYC...yet, they just can't seem to accept it. If an airline can only choose one destination in Alberta, it will be YYC. YEG flights are first to get cut.

With the creation of a new YYC international terminal and the new runway, that position will only be solidified.

Edmonton is continually shooting itself in the foot trying to 'beat' Calgary at a game it has long ago lost. The one advantage Edmonton has, the city center airport, has been hobbled by a short sighted and developer controlled city council.

The 'Muni' is an absolute jewel of an airport...which any city with any sense would be proud to have. Yet Edmonton will squander this amazing resource to throw more cash at the swamp that YEG is built on.

With the over half a billion dollars of expansion, YEG will end being the fanciest regional airport nobody flies to.



What the...?
User currently offlineflyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3699 times:

I agree that the sun probably just misquoted them, and the AC flight will be going to daily year round. Right now it is just during the summer so that makes sense.

My friend works for the engineering firm that is working on the airport; showed me some great pictures. It looks great. He said the transborder area should be open around February 2012 since everything is on track and below cost.

Thanks for the feed back on the article, just thought I would throw it out there to get all your 'expert' thoughts  


User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2439 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

Since were kinda on the subject...

Here are some interesting passenger statistics for 2011 thus far.

YEG

til August 2011 - 4,209,877 (+2.1%)

YYC

til July 2011 - 7,344,592 (+0.4%)

In the month of July, traffic at YYC was down 0.9% compared to the same month in 2010.
Internation traffic for YTD 2011 is down 1.4%

now, considering how close YYC came to overtake YUL two years ago, it is amazing to see that there will be a 1 million gap this year between the two airports.

YUL

til July 2011 - 8,111,264 (+6.5%)

Domestic up 4.6% YTD (9.1% in July 2011 compared to July 2010, which is very impressive)
International up 9.5% YTD
Transborder up 4.5% YTD

What is even more akward is that Western Canada is doing much better than Quebec in terms of economic growth. Be it as it may, chances are this is the result of Quebecers finally opening up to "normal" levels of air travel after decades of under achievement.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3108 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 9):
What is even more akward is that Western Canada is doing much better than Quebec in terms of economic growth. Be it as it may, chances are this is the result of Quebecers finally opening up to "normal" levels of air travel after decades of under achievement.

The east was hit much harder than the west during the last, (current?), economic turndown. High fuel prices hurt the manufacturing east and help the producing west.

As a result, they will have more of a rebound.

If you look at population numbers being serviced by the airports, YYC and YEG serve a population base significantly smaller than YUL, yet combined, they carry more passengers.

I do agree that Quebec has been lagging in air travel. I'm surprised YUL numbers aren't higher.



What the...?
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2439 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3079 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):
YYC and YEG serve a population base significantly smaller than YUL, yet combined, they carry more passengers.
Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):
I'm surprised YUL numbers aren't higher.

2.1 million vs 3.6 million...wouldn't call it huge, but sure. You are correct to some extent. That being said however, the reasons behind YUL's relatively low traffic count have been discussed to death on here.

Just as a refresher....part of the answer lies in the fact that YUL is within 600km's of 5 major urban areas, namely (YYZ, NYC, BOS, PHL, YOW etc)

People would much rather take trains, cars or (BTV and PLB) etc to these cities than fly out of YUL. Secondly, the cultural differences between Canada and the "Quebecois" tends to limit the latter's travel across Canada, which is evidenced by the low domestic traffic figures at YUL compared to YYC.

Whereas in Cowtown (or Cowtown wannabee ).....if you wanna go in or out, you're flying out of YYC or YEG.....But mostly YYC.....   ....Period.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3051 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 11):

Whereas in Cowtown (or Cowtown wannabee ).....if you wanna go in or out, you're flying out of YYC or YEG.....But mostly YYC..... ....Period.

I agree...for all the hundreds of millions that Edmonton is tossing at expanding YEG, they will continue to be perpetual also rans in the quest for Western Canadian air passengers.

If only they were smart enough to properly utilize the muni...that airport is an absolute jewel...an unmatched downtown airport. Even if they only allowed TProps...they would make a ton.

Oh well...

At least they won't have to worry about the new carpet in YEG wearing out any time soon.



What the...?
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5411 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3020 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6):
Airport operators should worry about operating their airports !.....Let the airlines worry about which routes they decide to expand


Sure, BUT an airport not only has to operate their existing facility, they are the ones to decide when they need more space to accommodate growth. And they need to have some basis for going forward with expansion in the first place -- from the tenants. One would expect that somewhere before the current project began, there were studies, discussions, and analyses that convinced the airport folks to proceed -- based on airline interaction and speculation, there was in fact a need for more space at the airport.

Those "commitments" of course, are never 100% sure so it is obviously a big gamble involving millions (or billions) of dollars... Either the airport sits back, doesn't believe anything they see or hear, and does nothing, or they decide to go ahead, and hope it plays out...

bb


User currently offlineflyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

I guess we'll see about the expansions at YEG. I know they really need more room in their domestic arrivals area, as well as Transborder during the peaks. YEG isn't building a YYZ or a YYC, they are building an airport for the next wave. I don't think it is unreasonable what they are building there. The fact is the current airport wouldn't be able to hold another boom when the economy returns, which it will there and with force with all expansion in the oil industry alone. I really like their airport and what they are doing, just as I like YYC and our facility.

Are they still planning on tearing down the old control tower? I just saw the new one for the first time, and it is pretty amazing looking.


User currently offlinecyeg66 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 202 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2894 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 12):
If only they were smart enough to properly utilize the muni...that airport is an absolute jewel...an unmatched downtown airport. Even if they only allowed TProps...they would make a ton.

Careful now, that's twice now you've fanned the flame that's burned at the heart of this city for a few decades. Props feed traffic onto mainline, but not if they're at different airports. Mainline (prepared to fly more than 300nm) would never have used the impossible-to-expand muni so the decision is (was) clear. Simply put, a catchment area similar to Calgary's would like some flight options. Its residents aren't asking for the moon. The muni, unfortunately, is (was) a jewel for flight training schools but that ship is also sailing with the decommissioning of the ILS.



slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
User currently offlineflyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2873 times:

Guys don't hijack the thread with cca talk please.

User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 30
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2767 times:

Quoting cyeg66 (Reply 15):
Simply put, a catchment area similar to Calgary's would like some flight options.

They have one...it's called YYC.



What the...?
User currently offlinecyeg66 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 202 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2759 times:

^See, he started it.    


slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 30
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2736 times:

................didn't.


What the...?
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2439 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 7):
The one advantage Edmonton has, the city center airport, has been hobbled by a short sighted and developer controlled city council.
Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 12):
If only they were smart enough to properly utilize the muni...that airport is an absolute jewel...an unmatched downtown airport. Even if they only allowed TProps...they would make a ton.

The way i see it, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't !

People will always argue both sides of the issue....Just look at YMX. When it was open, people were complaining that the airport was too far and lacked proper public transportation. Now that it is closed for commerical flights, the very same people are probably the ones crying for its return.

People make choices and they don't look back. They can't afford to. That's just the way it is.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 13):
Sure, BUT an airport not only has to operate their existing facility, they are the ones to decide when they need more space to accommodate growth
Quoting SANFan (Reply 13):
One would expect that somewhere before the current project began, there were studies, discussions, and analyses that convinced the airport folks to proceed

Anyone can figure out that YEG needs more terminal space. When demand exceeds capacity, that's as good as it's going to get to start the expansion. No need for studies, discussions and analyses. In fact, the people at YEG probably needed to have these "discussions" a few years before, to be ahead of the game, instead of playing catchup. That being said, no one is arguing that YEG doesn't need to expand.

What i am arguining about is the unecessary innuendo and speculation about possible new routes, without proper commitment by the airlines.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 13):
Those "commitments" of course, are never 100% sure

In YEG's case, unless AC or WG are about to upgauge or start YEG-LHR, it is 100% false, especially with a looming recession right at our doorstep.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2011-09-28 10:11:45]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2354 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 20):

What i am arguining about is the unecessary innuendo and speculation about possible new routes, without proper commitment by the airlines.

YEG has been burned by this thinking before. Build it and they will come doesn't work for airlines.



What the...?
User currently offlineflyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2270 times:

I'm curious how they have been burned by that approach before? The only modernization that they have had to the original 1960's terminal was in the late 90's. That terminal is not at capacity.

Doesn't anyone have any recent overhead pictures of the new terminal or the control tower design. I'm jut leaving YYC for a FRA on LH. I guess I might see it as I fly over head 


User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2242 times:

Quoting flyb (Reply 22):
Doesn't anyone have any recent overhead pictures of the new terminal or the control tower design. I'm jut leaving YYC for a FRA on LH. I guess I might see it as I fly over head

As of September 4th:


Edmonton International by cowtowncor, on Flickr


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Pictures look great...But just looks like patch work to me with a non-integrated design. I am flying to YEG this weekend, so will be able to see it up close

25 Tinosky : YEG seems like they want to play "catch-up" with YYC. Once YYC gets the new terminal and new runway, YEG won’t stand a chance. If anything, they wou
26 thenoflyzone : yeahh....not quite buddy! KL was 5 weekly this past year with A332. It will be 4 weekly from March to May 2012, and then 6 weekly (so far) next summe
27 C172Akula : The MD-11 did operate the AMS route over the summer. Just switched back to the 332 a few weeks ago.
28 cyeg66 : No, they're expanding their airport. The only thing "they're" trying to do is "catch up" with "passenger capacity" and improve the current infrastruc
29 AC183 : The muni worked well for local flights, but was terrible for connectivity. If Edmonton was smart, they'd extend the LRT all the way to YEG, make that
30 JoeCanuck : Porter manages pretty well in Toronto...in fact, Porter does so well that AC has moved there. London City airport is very busy. There is a long list o
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