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LH Orders 2 More A 380  
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2715 posts, RR: 25
Posted (2 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 23598 times:

Just read this on aero.de - LH

Quote:
Die Deutsche Lufthansa stockt ihre Bestellung im Programm Airbus A380 um zwei auf 17 Flugzeuge auf. Der Aufsichtsrat des größten europäischen Airlinekonzerns gab am Donnerstag zudem grünes Licht für die Bestellung einer weiteren A330-300 sowie von vier A320 und fünf Embraer E195. Die Flugzeuge im Listenpreis von etwa einer Milliarde Euro sollen entweder aus liquiden Mitteln oder extern finanziert werden, erklärte der Konzern in seiner Ankündigung.

"Die moderate Erweiterung der Lufthansa Passageflotte dient vor allem der Absicherung des kurzfristigen Bedarfes bei Modernisierung und Konsolidierung der Europaflotte, bis zur Verfügbarkeit neuer Flugzeugtechnologien", sagte Lufthansa Vorstandschef Christoph Franz. "Gleichzeitig sichert die Ergänzungsbestellung von Airbus A380 und A330 unsere mittelfristige Langstreckenentwicklung."

Will add some details later on.

Edit:
Here is the link to the source (unfortunately only in German): http://www.aero.de/news-13585/Luftha...tockt-Airbus-A380-Auftrag-auf.html

They intend to increase the number of firm orders from currently 15 to 17.

[Edited 2011-09-29 07:17:08]

92 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineFocker From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 23568 times:

Great news! Although only 2 additional A380's it does show LH is really happy with their first frames, and not just making good press.

User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 23545 times:

Congratulations to Airbus on producing a design that in-service figures show the customer is worth re-ordering. Wonder how many more existing customers will follow suit soon to avoid delays due to low production levels.

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9407 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (2 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 23511 times:

Not forget to mention 1 addtl A330-300, 4 A320 and 5 Embraer 195, financing mainly from cash flow with some external financing. Delivery or the A380 + 330 in 2014, the A320 in 2013 and 2014 and the E195 in 2012 and 2013.

All in all a short term addition to the fleets on top of the deliveries scheduled already.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13144 posts, RR: 100
Reply 4, posted (2 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 23499 times:
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Good news. Having a subfleet of 17 is the minimum I consider economical (for operation out of *one* hub).

Quoting Focker (Reply 1):
Although only 2 additional A380's it does show LH is really happy with their first frames, and not just making good press.

  

LH is happy... I just wish they had been a little happier (say 5 to 7 frames...)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineflyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (2 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 23463 times:

Woohooo 

Great news! I love the way Lufthansa has configured all three of its A380 cabins. And their business product on this aircraft is truly marvellous! They must be happy with it if they have decided they will be wanting more of them after all   

Further down in the article there is also mention of another A333, four A320, and five E195!



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently onlineFocker From Netherlands, joined Jan 2011, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 23418 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
Not forget to mention 1 addtl A330-300, 4 A320 and 5 Embraer 195, financing mainly from cash flow with some external financing. Delivery or the A380 + 330 in 2014, the A320 in 2013 and 2014 and the E195 in 2012 and 2013.

Delivery of the A380's in 2014 is rather soon. Would that be the slots QF left open by deferring their deliveries?


User currently offlinerobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 23335 times:

And now also confirmed on Lufthansa webpage (in English):
http://presse.lufthansa.com/en/news-...011/september/29/article/2010.html


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9407 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (2 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 23339 times:

Makes sense, does it? Building up their fleet to 17 by 2014 is really surprising. that leaves 3 options open while the 747-9i come in during that time as well.

However, the retirement of some 744s which was recently discussed makes more sense now. In addition to the hours these ladies had accumulated of course.

 



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineExtra300 From Sweden, joined Sep 2011, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 23297 times:

I did expect LH to firm up all 5 options for a388, but 2 is better than none.

User currently offlinewolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 488 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 23267 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
Good news. Having a subfleet of 17 is the minimum I consider economical (for operation out of *one* hub).

I don't know if you're correct but I fully agree! Please send an email to Air France, Asiana, China Southern, Korean Air, Qatar Airways and Thai Airways informing them of this important fact.  

OK
, so 2 extra isn't a whole lot but every one counts and it's important because it shows that LH is very satisfied with their A380 babies. I'm confident LH will order more in the future but in this climate they are wisely being prudent with their orders.



[Edited 2011-09-29 07:56:05]

User currently offlineflyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (2 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 23209 times:

Quoting Extra300 (Reply 9):
I did expect LH to firm up all 5 options for a388, but 2 is better than none.

Most of us did, but hard times are coming. Just last week Lufthansa announced a profit warning to the board. I guess they would rather play it safe than sorry during these volatile times.



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7064 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (2 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 23208 times:

Apart from the A380 order one thought about the rest of the order LH must see no thread in the 787/A350 orders from other airlines as they continue to buy one A330 after another....really boring after awhile especially with this tiny little trend engines also they seem to love the EJet.


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2715 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (2 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 23169 times:

Total number of orders now, including these two additional airframes: 238
already delivered: 56
Backlog: 182


User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 23162 times:

Quoting Focker (Reply 6):
Delivery of the A380's in 2014 is rather soon. Would that be the slots QF left open by deferring their deliveries?

Sounds about right to me, the cancellation (ILFC) and the two "uncertain" orders (VS and IT) don't seem to have any set deliveries scheduled in as they were subject to a lot of deferrals already. I wonder if this is an opportunistic order to take advantage of this opening and there's still a likelehood of a bunch of further A380 orders in the future for LH?


User currently offlineBralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 23163 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
while the 747-9i come in during that time as well.

The what?   


User currently offlineflyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (2 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 23125 times:

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 14):
Sounds about right to me, the cancellation (ILFC) and the two "uncertain" orders (VS and IT) don't seem to have any set deliveries scheduled in as they were subject to a lot of deferrals already. I wonder if this is an opportunistic order to take advantage of this opening and there's still a likelehood of a bunch of further A380 orders in the future for LH?

I am quite optimistic about that in the future. They will want to be well equipped against the competition *cough* emirates *cough* once they have found ways to work around "the recession"  



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 23083 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 13):
Total number of orders now, including these two additional airframes: 238
already delivered: 56
Backlog: 182

with net orders for this year creeping up to +4.

There's still a probability that we'll see HK and QR order a good number each before the end of the year and EK hasn't bought for a while so could order a few more.


User currently offlineflyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (2 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 22997 times:

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 17):
There's still a probability that we'll see HK and QR order a good number each before the end of the year and EK hasn't bought for a while so could order a few more.

Tim Clarke stated he would be ordering more 77? and 388 about a week or two ago, so yes, I also see this happening  



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineatnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 22897 times:

From what I see, this is a "quick no brainer" add-on order, which not only shows that LH really likes the airplane, but because is such success for them, they would rather use the slots available now than allow someone else to take them and LH missing the opportunity. Plus it appears that they are seeing that since the airplane has become so popular for passengers, LH sees an threat from other A380 operators and to sustain and grow in competitive markets, the A380 is the only option to go... this kinda proofs the saying "it takes a A380 to compete with a A380"... This does not mean they are done with the A380 as far as future orders, this is just a good opportunity to add what they are seeing a great airplane with great success in the present and immediate future..... Congrats to LH and Airbus....


B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
User currently offlinewolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 488 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 22850 times:

You would expect this to be a conversion of 2 of the 5 A380 options that LH held but neither the LH or Airbus press releases mention this explicitly. So perhaps it's possible LH kept their 5 options and this was a separate 'grab-the-opportunity' order?

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9407 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (2 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 22834 times:

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 15):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
while the 747-9i come in during that time as well.

The what?

Did you miss the latest news?   Now, seriously, you know it's a typing error. My answer: so what.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (2 years 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 22163 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21):
Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 15):
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
while the 747-9i come in during that time as well.

The what?

Did you miss the latest news? Now, seriously, you know it's a typing error. My answer: so what.

Nah, it is the Boeing answer to the shock rapid development of the 389, the sales folk just cannot sell now if there is not a "9" at the end of the model number.

Meanwhile back in the real world, interesting addition. This is a contrast to the QF delay for frames, although QF did increase its initial order a long while ago. But both airlines now have some experience of operations. So is QF that much more pressed for funds to expand first with 7verylate7s and then A320NEOs or are the priorities at QF different from those at LH?


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13144 posts, RR: 100
Reply 23, posted (2 years 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 21344 times:
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Quoting wolbo (Reply 10):
Please send an email to Air France, Asiana, China Southern, Korean Air, Qatar Airways and Thai Airways informing them of this important fact.

Ok.    I'm sure they'll listen to me telling them they need to order quite a few more of their VLA aircraft.  

Seriously, reading HB-IWC's various excellent analysis on EK, KLM, AA (others?) I have reached the opinion that it takes 17 airframes to make up an economical sub-fleet. Note: That is my opinion based on another a.nutter's analysis.  

My personal favorite of his analysis:
Emirates At DXB - Ultimate Operational Analysis (by HB-IWC Sep 27 2010 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting flyAUA (Reply 18):
Tim Clarke stated he would be ordering more 77? and 388 about a week or two ago, so yes, I also see this happening

I'm glad to see the Betty Ford clinic for compulsive airframe purchasing released Tim.   

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9407 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (2 years 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 21249 times:

I guess that QF is much more pressed by the Gulf carriers and to a lesser extend by SQ than LH is. The geographical position of Australia and the fact that they will have to go down from 3 daily to LHR to just 1 is not an advantage either.

LH has the benefit of operating 2 major hubs in Germany, one being almost at the geographic and demographic center of Europe, and the other, MUC, not too far away. At least one has growth potential and MUC should get the third runway as well On top of that, flexibility is a key factor in the company.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
25 Extra300 : Do you guys believe this is a start of top ups for the A380? I could see SQ, AF and maybe BA firm up a few options.
26 ju068 : Sorry for being off topic but couldn't find anything online. Could someone tell me when is the terminal extension opening in Frankfurt?
27 flyAUA : If you mean the 4th Runway, the AIP Ammendment shows it operational from 20th October 2011
28 ju068 : Oh not the runway, I managed to find information on that but when I was in Frankfurt the last time there was a terminal being built. I think it was c
29 Post contains images Revelation : I'm glad he has that much cash. Is he trying to outdo John Travolta?
30 na : Nice to hear. Any VLA more is welcome.[Edited 2011-09-29 12:22:04 by srbmod]
31 lightsaber : Yes and no. To be blunt, Airbus must put A380s into customer fleets for most to consider a 'top off' order. KE and CZ are potentially two very import
32 Post contains links CEO@AFG : The new terminal 1A+ in FRA will open summer 2012. Very informative read with loads of pictures of the ongoing construction at FRA here: http://www.sk
33 BrouAviation : They are most likely waiting for the Dubai Airshow to make their announcements.
34 Post contains images Semaex : I lolled at this statement. Calling 1bln € spent on aircraft is hardly "moderate" And I admit I do too. Love it! If you mean A+, then it's schedule
35 Post contains images 747400sp : I like your style! Sometimes people are so stuck up here, that want to correct every little thing in these topic.
36 Post contains images goldorak : AF has already exercised two options. But I'd like to see them exercising some more
37 Post contains images EPA001 : Well, if they would repeat this move 3-4 times, they are close to the number you desired. . I am sure they will listen. So another 50 A380 orders by
38 Post contains images lightsaber : They would have to do something different... only 3 more A388 options. Seriously, I truly believe that low A388 production rates, a tight backlog to
39 Post contains links robffm2 : I don't think Lufthansa has exercised two options. This not mentioned in Lufthansa's nor in Airbus' press release. But Reuters points into another di
40 United Airline : How many A380s did LH order? I mean firm+options
41 mariner : Probably a combination of both. Not exactly "pressed for funds" but perhaps concerned about how much money they would have to find in the market. Don
42 ju068 : Thanks a lot!
43 Post contains images wilco737 : Congrats to LH and to Airbus. I talked to several A380 crews and they were all very happy with the performance and the working place itself. The loads
44 na : LH has ordered 17 A380s now, and holds 3 options. 8 A380s have been delivered, more are coming next yaer. For LH its a moderate "inbetween" order. Ha
45 Post contains images flyAUA : I think it was 15 on order and 5 further options. The 2 they signed for yesterday don't seem to be options, but rather an offer from airbus for some
46 Post contains images wilco737 : Yes, and they do many promotion flights. Hamburg Airportday, screnery flights around northern Germany, the trip across Europe, the trip across German
47 na : Actually I think they will. Not of the scale of the A380 of cause. They would miss an opportunity, and they are launch customer. Unless LH would get
48 Post contains images hal9213 : Na, they are just trying to adapt to the Emirates "style" Funny, I was talking to LH crew the other day, who told me, that everybody is trying to avo
49 Post contains images wilco737 : I only know about the crews on the 380 and they were happy. At least the ones I talked to. They only say: not many destinations which makes it rather
50 PlaneHunter : Of course there a different opinions - the A380 does have weaknesses. No, it's not. In LH's case, you get the same pitch and width in Y Class as on t
51 Post contains images N14AZ : Yesterday, there was a comment here saying something like "so much excitment about 2 additional units"? Actually, this sentence is a brilliant summar
52 lhrnue : What does the statement regarding the 'availability of future Technologies for the Europeen fleet' means. NEO and MAX are hardly future technology. An
53 kurt : I flew the LH A380 FRA-MIA a couple of weeks ago. Lovely aircraft, quiet, high tech and smooth. But the business class product is not "marvellous." I
54 Post contains images lightsaber : That does change the situation a bit... It also begs the question: 1. Did someone cancel/deffer? 2. Or is production increasing (finally) to the poin
55 AustrianZRH : Maybe it's two of the deferred QF production slots. I don't know if ILFC was already assigned slots.
56 na : Indeed LHs Biz-seats are by now a bit outdated. I never slept comfortably in them. But there is good news, there will be new, lie-flat seats coming w
57 Focker : As I already suggested in post #6 I personally think these are the slots QF left open by deferring their frames.
58 Post contains links and images CALTECH : One of which is that Beluga Whale Forehead. The wings, the tail, the landing gear, great looking, but all ruined by that forehead. Boeing's attempt l
59 Post contains links and images KPDX : Looks like you'll be happy during the Dubai Air Show then. Qatar apparently ordered some more A380s. Then again, you never know with Akbar Al-Baker,
60 Post contains images EPA001 : Why? The nose-section will not change, and is aerodynamically shaped as best as possible for it to connect to the fuselage. The proportions will dras
61 Post contains images Baroque : I doubt if either Airbus or customers would be happy to take the aero penalty that a forehead-less A380 would evidently sport.
62 EPA001 : They most probably will not. As we see on the delivery of the B747-8F, it is all about (parts of) percentages to make the customers happy.
63 EPA001 : Just as on the B747, an A380-900 will not have a changed nose-section. So the proportions will get better and more elegant and better balanced. Maybe
64 Post contains links and images CALTECH : Nope. Maybe after some years it will not look so bad.
65 scbriml : The deal was done and dusted ready for Paris before Al-Baker threw his toys out the pram. Again.
66 Post contains images LifelinerOne : That A380-700 is just plain hideous! Talking about wrong proportions. The A380-nose has come up after extensive study for which form would be the bes
67 Post contains images KPDX : Disclaimer: This is not taking anything away from the A380. I can't help but get the feeling a part of this A380 buying in the ME is an "arms/ego rac
68 Post contains links and images mariner : I don't think it looks bad now. I love this nose, for example: View Large View MediumPhoto © RAScholefield Collection mariner
69 Post contains images EPA001 : Yup. Your pictures show no change in the nose section. The longer the fuselage, the less dominating the nose section becomes. And the longer A380-900
70 Post contains images Semaex : Wow, I do not know where you have that A380-700 photoshop from, but it looks plain horrible. Reminds me of the A318, proportion-wise. OTOH, I love th
71 328JET : From the LH link: "...two Airbus A380s and one Airbus A330-300 will be deployed for Lufthansa German Airlines on long-haul routes for an interim perio
72 robffm2 : The German wording is a little different: Davon sollen zwei Airbus A380 und ein Airbus A330-300 kurzfristig bei der Lufthansa Passage auf der Langstr
73 Post contains images 328JET : Thanks, that makes more sense. I only read the english version.
74 XT6Wagon : given that the A388 is already effectively a shrink, the economics of an even greater shrink would be terrible. I'm not sure you would save a dime on
75 lightsaber : Except the A380 is supposed to be the 1st with a 'lifting nose/forward underbody.' So that nose wasn't for asthetics, it was cockpit packaging and ae
76 Post contains links and images CALTECH : The A-350 nose is pleasing to the eye. Where as, Looks like a pregnant Boeing B-29. Ugly. And then what they did to this ugly bird, and a Airbus Skyl
77 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Am I the only one who thinks that Beluga Whale on the picture looks kind of sweet? Now that's a beauty! Cheers!
78 Post contains images astuteman : Of course, the stretch delivers exactly the opposite.. Not sure you'd cost a dime extra on trip costs, and your volume for passengers is greatly incr
79 Post contains images lightsaber : Required for A380 fans. Which is why many of us here are the fan of the A389 concept. We just debate how much of a stretch. I believe I'm in the extr
80 YTZ : I'm curious why LH has held off so long on deciding between the 787 and A350. They are now looking at deliveries at the very end of the decade. In the
81 Burkhard : So the two more must be welcome to them, since this means one more destination. A358, 788 and 789 are too small for them. Both have better economics
82 Post contains images wilco737 : Exactly. And there are different plans where to send it. But nothing confirmed yet. Many airports still have infrastructure problems with the A380. S
83 Post contains images columba : At least we can be sure the destinations will not be in India 787-10 seems to be LH´s prefered choice as an A343 replacement. They are looking at if
84 Post contains images wilco737 : Yes, we can be very sure of that But there are many other nice destinations for an A380 to be sent to. But it will take a while until this is figured
85 nicoeddf : Afaik, the two A380 are both coming in 2012 already as additional frames to -MI & -MJ.
86 Post contains images columba : Hope you won´t be dissappointed with too many Airbusses I do hope for some more Boeings in LH´s fleet especially since now the days of 737 seem to
87 nicoeddf : Yes, that is the case!
88 N14AZ : MI and MJ which are MSN 072 and 073 are from the original order. They are already in TLS since this summer. So I doubt that these are the two additio
89 Post contains images wilco737 : I won't. As long as LH is healthy my job is safe and that is the most important thing to me. I want to fly until I retire, no matter if Boeing or Air
90 Post contains images nicoeddf : That is what I wrote! I said, that those two ordered A380 are going to be "additionally" delivered in 2012 besides -MI & -MJ. That is, at least,
91 robffm2 : Has been announced both by Airbus and Lufthansa, after LH supervisory board approved the deal. I consider this a deal done. By the way, according to
92 flyglobal : I could offer some black or window styling tape/ plastic add on to improve the looks from our car factory. Why is such a method not used with airplan
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