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Australia - Japan Open Skies Signed  
User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1137 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 3 months 21 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

full media release here: http://www.minister.infrastructure.g...ses/2011/September/AA176_2011.aspx

Quote:
The Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Anthony Albanese today announced that Australian and Japanese airlines would now be able to offer direct flights between Australia and Tokyo's Haneda Airport under a landmark open skies agreement between Australia and Japan.

Key elements of the new arrangements include:

Daily flights between Haneda Airport and Australian airports
The removal of all capacity restrictions between all Australian and Japanese airports with the exception of Tokyo's Narita Airport
The removal of all capacity restrictions at Tokyo's Narita Airport form 2013.

Note this mentioned no capacity restrictions anymore, but what about slot restrictions - Australian airlines would still need to buy-in... correct? or?

Who's bigger at HND? JL or NH?

I suppose this now also makes it easier for Skymark to start their mooted MEL services.

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 3020 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
Australian airlines would still need to buy-in... correct? or?

Yes, and vice versa (though the only issue airport in Australia would be SYD)

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
Who's bigger at HND? JL or NH?

My gut tells me NH, but I could be wrong.

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
I suppose this now also makes it easier for Skymark to start their mooted MEL services.

I guess, though I doubt it will happen. VA is more likely to jump on the route, otherwise I can see JQ running 3 weekly once they get their 787s...


User currently offlineZuluAlpha From Thailand, joined Mar 2010, 420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 1):
My gut tells me NH, but I could be wrong.

Any Chances we will see NH birds flying to Australia ?



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User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2980 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 2361 times:

There won't be too much slot restrictions at NRT come 2013 because of the large release of slots.
HND is another story not because of slots but a restrictive operating window.

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
I suppose this now also makes it easier for Skymark to start their mooted MEL services

Until they get their A380s, all they have are 738s. Most likely not.

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 2):
Any Chances we will see NH birds flying to Australia ?

Possible, but they tend to stay away from largely leisure routes, which Japan-Australia market predominantly is.

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
Who's bigger at HND? JL or NH?

Movements: JL. Seat capacity: NH


User currently offlinetrent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 573 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 16 hours ago) and read 2236 times:

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 2):
Any Chances we will see NH birds flying to Australia ?

Anything is possible, but still no (real) Star Alliance presence: i.e. HND/wherever is Aus can only offer limited direct sectors. Not everyone in Japan travels through Tokyo. JQ also serves KIX directly for OneWorld, while Fukuoka (FUK) in the deep south is served for Star A via SIN or BKK.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 3020 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 16 hours ago) and read 2184 times:

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 2):
Any Chances we will see NH birds flying to Australia ?

That I would like. I think there's profit to be made flying a daily 788 to either SYD or MEL.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 3):
HND is another story not because of slots but a restrictive operating window.

The operating window should actually work out pretty well for Australian airlines -- QF21/22 arrives at 6:30am and departs at 8:30pm so with some adjustment there would be little need to have wild departure times like some European/US carriers now have.

Quoting carpethead (Reply 3):
Possible, but they tend to stay away from largely leisure routes, which Japan-Australia market predominantly is.

Hmmm. Sure there is a lot of tourism on the route, but there's also plenty of business traffic. QF regularly schedules their premium-heavy 747s on SYD-NRT (80J plus 40W once you include the unsold F seats). I also think that a VA/NH partnership could make the route very successful... You also have to remember that the Australia-Japan tourist market is a very wealthy one, so fares are generally very high out of SYD (I'm looking at next Feb, which is generally a very quiet month and QF is getting almost $2,000 return in Y).


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7743 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 5):
The operating window should actually work out pretty well for Australian airlines -- QF21/22 arrives at 6:30am and departs at 8:30pm so with some adjustment there would be little need to have wild departure times like some European/US carriers now have.

There is a delicate balance here of best arrival and departure times from a passenger perspective and the penalty of having a very high capital cost aircraft sitting around doing nothing for an extended period.

The morning window is so short that unless you have an arrival reasonably close to its opeing it is virtually impossible to turrn a large aircraft round for a departure before it closes again at 07.00 am. So the choice is between something like tha BA flight that arrives very early (04.55 am) and also departs very early (06.25 am) with a short stopover (1.5 hrs) or the QF timing with a later arrival (06.30 am), 14 hours on the ground and a passenger-convenient departure (08.30 pm).

When you are flying a $200 million plus aircraft 14 unproductive hours carries quite a significant economic penalty. Hopefully this is at least partly balanced by the additional yields obtained from the more passenger-friendly timings.


User currently offlineohsopc From Thailand, joined Jul 2006, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 6):

Quoting qf002 (Reply 5):
The operating window should actually work out pretty well for Australian airlines -- QF21/22 arrives at 6:30am and departs at 8:30pm so with some adjustment there would be little need to have wild departure times like some European/US carriers now have.

There is a delicate balance here of best arrival and departure times from a passenger perspective and the penalty of having a very high capital cost aircraft sitting around doing nothing for an extended period.

The morning window is so short that unless you have an arrival reasonably close to its opeing it is virtually impossible to turrn a large aircraft round for a departure before it closes again at 07.00 am. So the choice is between something like tha BA flight that arrives very early (04.55 am) and also departs very early (06.25 am) with a short stopover (1.5 hrs) or the QF timing with a later arrival (06.30 am), 14 hours on the ground and a passenger-convenient departure (08.30 pm).

When you are flying a $200 million plus aircraft 14 unproductive hours carries quite a significant economic penalty. Hopefully this is at least partly balanced by the additional yields obtained from the more passenger-friendly timings.

I think they would go for a late arrival in to HND (22.00 hr) and an overnight departure (23.00hr) arriving in Australia in the morning.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 3020 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 6):
QF timing with a later arrival (06.30 am), 14 hours on the ground and a passenger-convenient departure (08.30 pm).

When you are flying a $200 million plus aircraft 14 unproductive hours carries quite a significant economic penalty. Hopefully this is at least partly balanced by the additional yields obtained from the more passenger-friendly timings.

That certainly is a serious consideration, but these timings seems to be working relatively well for QF thus far (they probably do mx work on the ground for the day as they do during extended layovers at other stations), and the timing wouldn't be such an issue for NH flying out of HND. It could be a factor for VA entering the market with limited aircraft though.


User currently offlineeaglefarm4 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 4 hours ago) and read 1679 times:

I can see Virgin and or Air Australia flying BNE-HND within 18 months.

User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 4 hours ago) and read 1613 times:

All Nippon have already been in Australia - one of the first international routes they operated, with 747-200s. They codeshared on the Ansett KIX-BNE-SYD services

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