apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3634 posts, RR: 6 Posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2180 times:
I was posting to another thread, and I noticed something about Delta Connection in the northeast. It almost seems to me like serving as a Delta Connection carrier in the northeast is a kiss of death for that regional. Let me illustrate.
Back in the 80's and early 90's, Delta Connection flights in the Northeast were handled by Business Express. Eventually they ran into some problems, got bought out by Eagle and were absorbed into Eagle.
After Business Express was out of the picture, Atlantic Coast started operating Dornier jets in the northeast for Delta. Eventually, Atlantic Coast got screwed over by United, ended up becoming Indy Air and we know how that went.
Not long after, Freedom took over much of the JFK flying, but couldn't perform and DL dumped them, and Mesa dumped their planes in bankruptcy.
Lastly, Comair has been a staple on many Northeast routes for many years since their own strike led to Delta shifting regional flying around (I still think its a very bad move, and I wish the shareholders would call out Anderson on it). In recent years, Comair has been downsizing like crazy, most of their employees are jumping ship, and what was once the most proud name in the regional industry is now sadly almost a mere memory.
Maybe its just coincidence, and it most likely is, but what is it about the northeast and all these carriers that have gone bankrupt trying to operate in it? And this isn't just limited to DL, over at USAirways, Air Wisconsin is the largest express carrier, and their main hub is in PHL, and their performance has been so bad it has been rumored that USAirways may try to buy out their contract. Mesa was a primary express carrier in IAD for United, and they went bankrupt. RAH has huge operations in the northeast for many airlines, and they are posting losses.
JasonCRH From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 251 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2096 times:
apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3634 posts, RR: 6 Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2060 times:
Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 1): I dont understand the point of this thread
I am trying to figure out if there is some connection between the northeast and Delta Connection carriers tanking. If you look at pre merger Delta, ASA and SkyWest have been around a while and neither carrier has significant problems from a business or financial standpoint. Neither one of those carriers has been heavily exposed to the Northeast though. Where as every other Delta Connection carrier that has had a significant operation in the northeast in recent years, has either gone belly up (Business Express, ACA, Freedom), is tetering on the Brink (Comair), or is experiencing losses on the balance sheet which may or may not be related to the Northeast (Pinnacle and RAH)
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 697 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2043 times:
SkyWest is laying off over 100 employees in SLC last I heard..
Worked/Planned Loads on: CRJ-2,CRJ-7,CRJ-9,737-4,737-7,737-8,757-2,757-3,767-3,A319,A320,A330,MD83,MD90
nkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2543 posts, RR: 6 Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1948 times:
I am not an expert on the subject, but I believe a lot of the freedom / mesa problems were self-inflicted.
bomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 361 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1929 times:
Lets not forget the short lived Big Sky Airlines operation.
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9286 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1727 times:
Quoting apodino (Thread starter): Eventually they ran into some problems, got bought out by Eagle and were absorbed into Eagle.
Incorrect...Business Express was out of bankruptcy for over a year when they were bought out by American Eagle. That was done for two main reasons. The landing slots in BOS, LGA and delivery slots for the Embraer 135. BEX had become a very strong airline by 1998 and ruled the northeast.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3634 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1640 times:
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
Incorrect...Business Express was out of bankruptcy for over a year when they were bought out by American Eagle. That was done for two main reasons. The landing slots in BOS, LGA and delivery slots for the Embraer 135. BEX had become a very strong airline by 1998 and ruled the northeast.
That is just what doesn't make sense. If Business Express was doing so well, why did they allow Eagle to buy them? They had a good thing going with the Delta operation in BOS. It is understandable why Eagle bought them, but something doesn't add up.
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9286 posts, RR: 13 Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1579 times:
Quoting apodino (Reply 7): They had a good thing going with the Delta operation in BOS
Because we we not just flying for Delta, we also had Northwest and at the time as American Connection....later when Eagle took a majority ownership as American Eagle...even though still under BEX colors. So why...? when someone offer you a cash deal that is really good, you take it.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
mcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1275 posts, RR: 17 Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1378 times:
That isn't exactly what happened. ACA had an opportunity to remain as a UAX carrier. They could have accepted adjusted rates and perhaps be flying E170's today. ACA had both IAD and ORD almost locked up for UA, huge growth potential with the additional express jets that were added. However, they thumbed their nose to UA and created their own mess with Flyi. ACA has no one to blame but the actions and arrogance of the leadership. They sold a bill of goods to the employees and unfortunately they bought off on an idea that was doomed from the beginning.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6512 posts, RR: 11 Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1222 times:
Sorry but you have quite a few things wrong in your original post. BEX was not some second fiddle operation that they "let" Eagle buy. They were doing very well and AA/AE looked at it as an asset. Companies sell all the time, it doesn't mean that they are underperforming. If they offer premium on stocks, they'll take it and run; why not?
ACA...United didn't screw them out of anything. In the end, it came down to who though their you know what was bigger. Coast screw themselves thinking they could do "better" as a standalone, with a bunch of CR2s at that.
Anderson and the way DCI runs...can't blame the man. This started quite some time back and was brought to a larger scale by JG, good or bad. There's nothing to call out. People bitch about it all the time but I don't see it changing. Is it ideal? No, even I don't think so but you guys won't begin to believe how much more we actaully get out of the fleet now compared to 5 years ago. This is all about efficiency and nothing else, TRUST ME. The whole isolation thing works but it is inefficient. I know some will jump all over me but I look at these numbers on a daily basis. We are flying more today with LESS because of this exact practice.
Okay onto NE flying. Its the nature of how the operation is set up. In the past, they had a dedicated carrier for the area and frankly, DL didn't care who did the flying. Now, seems like Pinnacle is doing most of it alongside OH and to a lesser extent, ASA through DTW. And the RP 145s of course. Let me tell you that DL wants to get rid of those frames so bad. Not because RP specifically but there are too much a/c for the flying that they're awarded. The 23 or so can easily be replaced by OH, 9E, and EV.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
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