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Why No AA @ OAK?  
User currently offlineSevensixtyseven From United States of America, joined May 2011, 170 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6212 times:

Simple question. With most majors having at least token service to OAK, (UA 2x daily to DEN, even with a massive hub across the Bay, DL mainline to SLC, and DL Connection to LAX and SLC, among others), why doesn't AA at least serve OAK with 1-2 flights daily to ORD or DFW?

(In light of the numerous AA bankruptcy threads, I realize that DFW-OAK may not make any money at all now.) However, was there any reason in the past not to have at least a flight or two to OAK?


Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3208 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6192 times:

AA did fly DFW-OAK with MD-80s. They dropped it a few years ago around the same time that CO dropped OAK-IAH. Apparently they thought that their DFW-SFO and SJC flights were sufficient. I agree that I'd much prefer to fly into a closer airport and the East Bay does have a large population base (OAK is somewhat a more direct drive to Marin and Sonoma Counties than is SFO also).

User currently offlinemodesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2815 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5959 times:

Pure speculation here, but I imagine that with a heavy LCC presence in OAK with WN and B6, they priced some of the legacies out of the market.

User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5877 times:

I'm not sure why, but when I used to price flights from the bay area to CUN, the prices from OAK were always higher than from SFO. Of all the times I flew from the bay area, I only flew the OAK-DFW route twice. However, I do miss AA's presence at OAK.


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26010 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5558 times:

AA has not had the best of luck with OAK.

They axed their JFK service in 2003 which at the time was 3x daily up against JetBlue. Eagle dropped its multiple daily LAX service circa 2004 or so, with the remaining DFW service ended in 2008.

Franky the entire Bay Area has not been not been too peachy for AA over the last decade.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5397 times:

Quoting modesto2 (Reply 2):
Pure speculation here, but I imagine that with a heavy LCC presence in OAK with WN and B6, they priced some of the legacies out of the market.

I think that pretty much sums it up. WN practically owns OAK (and, until AS's recent build-up, has essentially owned SJC since AA gutted out the QQ network in the early 2000's). I know this isn't necessarily the most accurate indicator, but while I drive people to and from SFO daily (and SJC pretty regularly), I may only go to OAK once in 2 or even 3 MONTHS, and I can't remember the last time I picked up someone at OAK from an airline other than WN or B6...



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3419 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5296 times:

Had AA kept the flying going when they bought OC they would have keep a good enough presence at OAK to have supported the DFW flights, as they would have kept loyal customers to some extent. The same goes true for their acquisition of QQ in SJC. They did much better in SJC though. But even their SFO flying has been scaled back during the years. The Bay Area is owned by UA, which is why the token UA flights from OAK to DEN & ORD. Not to mention the maintenance UA does in OAK. Lots of loyal UA & *A clients live all over the bay area.

Last OAK I did on UA was A-320 to ORD n/s, and back via DEN, only 735 I've ever flown, but BART is easier from SFO.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5213 times:

At one time, AA had a decent presence in OAK...flights to DFW, LAX with mainline aircraft and to JFK.

User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6183 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5092 times:

AA dropping OAK is pure consolidation.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):

OAK is more direct to Sonoma yes, Marin Co., no.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1581 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5001 times:
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Quoting as739x (Reply 8):
OAK is more direct to Sonoma yes, Marin Co., no.

You must not live here.....tell you what I will do....I will bet you $100 (to be given to charity) and we will start in San Rafael and you go over the Golden Gate and head to SFO and I will go over the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge and see who gets to their airport first.

The point being that OAK is so popular because it is so easy to get to and is actually closer to San Francisco than is SFO

Now all of us know that AA's flights to DFW were always packed but they said they could not justify just three flights per day

And remember the Arpey/Horton business plan has long been----let's get smaller and smaller and fly less and less

Lastly look for OAK to get some foreign carriers as the San Francisco political machine refuse to allow SFO to build new runways


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4923 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Franky the entire Bay Area has not been not been too peachy for AA over the last decade.

  ..I'm one unfortunate (of many) victim of this.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
DFW flights, as they would have kept loyal customers to some extent.

I never found AA to good out of OAK. I flew AA out of OAK a few times, only due to better fares than SJC/SFO. Even then, I decided to stop flying AA out of OAK (though I live in the South Bay Area).

Quoting n471wn (Reply 9):
The point being that OAK is so popular because it is so easy to get to and is actually closer to San Francisco than is SFO

I never liked dealing with OAK. Didn't like the timings/frequency. I didn't think AA has too much of a market which wanted to fly out of OAK.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 9):

And remember the Arpey/Horton business plan has long been----let's get smaller and smaller and fly less and less

That wouldn't make sense as OAK was still to a major AA hub.

At the end of the day, there just wasn't enough flights to keep the station open.

Even with all of the SJC cutbacks, AA/MQ still has about 12-14 daily flights (depending on day of the week).



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3208 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4845 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 8):

OAK is more direct to Sonoma yes, Marin Co., no.

Yeah it is faster to Marin. Ever drive from Highway 280 or 101 to the Golden Gate Bridge. It's like driving from I-5 into Vancouver B.C. No freeway. You get dumped onto arterial streets. When I had friends living in Marin County they always tried to go out of OAK as they found it much easier to get to.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):


Even with all of the SJC cutbacks, AA/MQ still has about 12-14 daily flights (depending on day of the week).

Yeah, woooo-hooooo. At one time it was more like 77 mainline flights a day to BOS, JFK, MIA (short-lived), CDG (short-lived), AUS, DFW, ORD, DEN, LAS, SAN, SNA, LAX, PDX, SEA, YVR, HNL, OGG, TPE (short-lived), NRT. What's disappointing is there are people on A.net who think it would be a good idea for AA, US or DL to buy AS, which likely would result, at best, in a significant pulldown of AS's route structure.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 11):
What's disappointing is there are people on A.net who think it would be a good idea for AA, US or DL to buy AS, which likely would result, at best, in a significant pulldown of AS's route structure.

AA's cost structure would kill many if not most of AS's routes/profitability.

As long as I can earn AA miles/EQM's by flying AS, I say "let AS alone". If anything, I would like to see AS take over many of those long-gone routes.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 11):
Yeah, woooo-hooooo. At one time it was more like 77 mainline flights a day to BOS, JFK, MIA (short-lived), CDG (short-lived), AUS, DFW, ORD, DEN, LAS, SAN, SNA, LAX, PDX, SEA, YVR, HNL, OGG, TPE (short-lived), NRT.

Something is better than nothing.. 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4772 times:

I think one thing you have to remember about AA coming back to OAK would be that the only logical route would be OAK-DFW. MIA won't work because you already have SFO and they couldn't even make SJC work, JFK already has competition from B6, LAX would be a blood-bath with WN and DL, the only one left is DFW. Even then it isn't too large. Only 190 PDEW. A daily 738/M80 could work but is it really worth opening a station for a single flight?

User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1581 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4730 times:
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[quote=jonathanxxxx,reply=13] A daily 738/M80 could work but is it really worth opening a station for a single flight?

No but that is not the point---AA just never stays and fights and just gives up----I mean they bought Air Cal and did nothing with it but dismantle it and turn tale and run----pitiful


User currently offline757ENGR From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4267 times:

Just like what has happened at SJC, OAK jacked up fees and rents to pay for terminal expansion and renovation, pricing airlines like AA and CO out of that airport. AS also dropped their OAKSNA flights.

User currently offlineaa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
(OAK is somewhat a more direct drive to Marin and Sonoma Counties than is SFO also).

No kidding. I hate taking 19th street up to the 101.



Go big or go home
User currently offlineMr737sjtc From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

I don't think you will see AA again in Oak anytime soon. AA truly has a history of just giving up like n471wn said. They certainly did in Sjc, oak and the only thing they have done at sfo is put more modern 737's to compete with competition and moved to a new terminal. AA needs to improve their product and although I like their livery, I feel a new livery and complete makeover of product and service is needed at American. As for Oak, I recently flew Spirit out of terminal 1 and it was a ghost town. Although I will never fly spirit again, Oak is a convenient airport. I could not pass up the $ 2 airfare for a day trip to Vegas.

User currently offlineSevensixtyseven From United States of America, joined May 2011, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3942 times:

Quoting 757ENGR (Reply 15):

What are OAK's plans for expansion? I read they're going to re-do Terminal 1, but T2, at least when I flew into OAK in July of this year, seemed perfectly ok.



Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
User currently offlineelmothehobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3665 times:

The real issue was not the loads out of Oakland, but the yields. Low fare pressure made the yields garbage, and American launched its quest to 'consolidate' its position in major cities. Unfortunately for Bay Area AA loyalists, American didn't add capacity at SJC and SFO to compensate for the loss of seats at OAK.

User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3195 times:

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 13):
I think one thing you have to remember about AA coming back to OAK would be that the only logical route would be OAK-DFW. MIA won't work because you already have SFO and they couldn't even make SJC work, JFK already has competition from B6, LAX would be a blood-bath with WN and DL, the only one left is DFW. Even then it isn't too large. Only 190 PDEW. A daily 738/M80 could work but is it really worth opening a station for a single flight?

I don't think DFW would make sense at this point. With VX in SFO pushing down fares to DFW, there isn't enough high yielding traffic to justify the costs.

The best AA could do is let Eagle handle OAK-LAX. Since it would serve primarily as a feed into the LAX hub, competition from WN and DL mean very little as most tickets would be sold as part of a larger itin. AA already flies LAX-PHX which is a heavily saturated route with US, UA, and WN.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5945 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3045 times:
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OAK went through a pretty depressing time when it lost AA and CO. Then the demise of AQ and ATA pretty much killed HI service until HA and AS filled the void. AA had a moderate presence at OAK with flights to both ORD and DFW. ORD was dropped a long time ago, even before they tried OAK-LAX and OAK-JFK.

UA also scaled back a lot with the discontinuation of OAK-LAX, OAK-ORD and OAK-IAD. B6 scaled back a bit with the reduction of OAK-BOS, OAK-JFK and the discontinuation of OAK-FLL. Even WN has scaled OAK back a little.

The largest contributors to another rise of OAK has been HA, AS and Volaris. OAK gets new European service with Arkfly 767-300's to AMS.


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6183 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2992 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 21):

OAK when thru a awful run there as carriers were leaving, not to mention B6 never being what I think most of us thought they would be. It has been nice to see multiple carriers filling the voids. To be honest. I am trying to figure out how UA is sustaining OAK service with what is left. They have less service I believe then AA did when they pulled out.

Quoting n471wn (Reply 9):

Check my profile. It's a magical tool to see where I work. I stand by what I say and don't need the driving challenge. So now we can concentrate on the topic of AA @ OAK again.

What Int'l carriers do you see coming to OAK (other then low cost Mexican) and passing over SFO?



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26702 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2908 times:

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Thread starter):
UA 2x daily to DEN, even with a massive hub across the Bay

UA is a mere shell of what it used to be at OAK.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6183 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):

Which makes you wonder if they will maintain that. They are less flights then CO and AA when they pulled the plug on OAK. Possibly they are able to hang in there with all the *A frequent flyers in the area.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
25 warden145 : Just wondering, how big was UA's operation at OAK at its peak? I'm guessing that it wasn't insignificant given that UA had a maintenance center there
26 Sevensixtyseven : I think UA is able to provide 2x daily because they can connect more of the Bay Area with DEN, because maybe they realize not everyone is going to go
27 n471wn : You made the comment about Oakland----I was trying to point out how wrong you were to say that Marin County people prefer SFO and note that several p
28 N1120A : It was probably close to 20 flights a day as recently as a few years ago.
29 United1 : Yeah they had 2 or 3 dailies to ORD, a flight to IAD, 5 or 6 to DEN and about the same on UAX to LAX not to many years ago.
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