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IB Set Announce New Low Cost Airline  
User currently offlineGSTBA From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 465 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12897 times:

The following short report was published on the Wall Street Journal Website on Thursday

The board of Spanish airline Iberia is planning to approve Tuesday the launch of a low-cost air carrier for short and medium-haul flights, reports El Pais in its Thursday Internet edition, citing sources familiar with the operation.

Two days later, the board of International Consolidated Airlines Group SA (IAG.LN, IAG.MC), the company formed through the merger of Iberia and British Airways, will have to ratify the decision, the paper adds.

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebuyantukhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2899 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 12739 times:

And Vueling? It seems they already have what they want, so what's the point?


I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7532 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 12519 times:

Quoting buyantukhaa (Reply 1):
And Vueling? It seems they already have what they want, so what's the point?

My recollection - right or wrong - is that the IB interest in VY is a minority interest. That is they are the biggest shareholder but own - I think - 45 per cent of VY's equity. So perhaps they want an LCC that they control but VY's other shareholders are not willing to let them take a controlling interest.

But this is all guess work.


User currently offlineGSTBA From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 465 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12280 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 2):
My recollection - right or wrong - is that the IB interest in VY is a minority interest. That is they are the biggest shareholder but own - I think - 45 per cent of VY's equity. So perhaps they want an LCC that they control but VY's other shareholders are not willing to let them take a controlling interest.

You are correct IB only holds a minority stake in VY of 45.85%

From what I can gather from the El Pais article the board will announce the plans on the 4th. The new carrier will focus on short to medium haul routes from IB's base in MAD. As many as 37 A320 family aircraft will be transferred from the IB fleet to the new airline.


User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12195 times:

Quoting buyantukhaa (Reply 1):
And Vueling? It seems they already have what they want, so what's the point?

Exactly. Vueling first focused on BCN and IB dropped all mainline BCN flights (except MAD-BCN of course). Then, with the expansion, Vueling started to operate some of Iberia's MAD flights, for example MAD-AGP, MAD-VLC, etc. Fair point, they probably are cheaper to operate (crew costs) and they still serve as feeders as they codeshare VY/IB.

But now, if they create their own low cost for say, domestic flights, what's the point? They've already given their market to VY in many routes. So probably the new low-cost's biggest competitor will be Vueling - the airline they've been working on for the last few years.

I want to believe that there is some good strategy behind this and the routes might not overlap?


User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 815 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12134 times:

I don't think this is a new LCC.

What IB is doing, and has been considered for some time, is setting up a separate company (with a lower costbase) to operate some short haul flights. The aircraft, brand and product will be the same. It's just the operating model (employee contracts, working practices) behind it will be different.


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2995 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11956 times:
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This is surely a mixed fleet BA Gatwick style operation True low cost and NOT Low fares type competing carrier.

It will be IBERIA as far at the paying public are concerned and will allow some maginal routes to be retained and indeed expanded on.


User currently offlineacelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11842 times:

Iberia have already transfered quiet a few few A320´s and even a A319 to Vueling so if they are transfering more to this new set up, will they have any left! At this rate the A321 will be the smallest plane in the fleet....


from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1843 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11646 times:

Another blood bath coming...   

User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11617 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 6):
This is surely a mixed fleet BA Gatwick style operation True low cost and NOT Low fares type competing carrier.

Mixed fleet operate at LHR as well in addition to the Euro Fleet and Longhaul only crews


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11470 times:

Very interesting move.

It makes just as much sense as ANA creating 2 LCC operations with different partners. Just seems to complicate things more than anything.


User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11465 times:

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 5):
The aircraft, brand and product will be the same.

Considering Iberia's current domestic on-board service is just as bad as a low-cost airline, the passengers won't even notice anything has changed...

On one of my latest IB flights, BRU-MAD, I needed water to take my medication and I got charged for it... Way to go IB.

[Edited 2011-10-01 03:30:21]

User currently offlineCabincrewifly From Ireland, joined Jul 2011, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11464 times:

It would be brilliant if they flew to more places in Ireand eg Cork and Shannon


EI FR RE EIR IWD MA FUA
User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11431 times:

Quoting Cabincrewifly (Reply 12):
It would be brilliant if they flew to more places in Ireand eg Cork and Shannon

I'd like to see them here in BFS... On hang on, they'd probably charge £400 for BFS-MAD-BFS so I'd still most likely fly BFS-LPL-MAD return on easyJet/Ryanair for £100  

Now being serious, Iberia have surrendered themselves to low-cost airlines. UK/Ireland-Spain is full of LCC (easyJet, Ryanair, Monarch, Jet2, Thomson, Thomas...). No way they'll compete on that. I think it's a bit sad the fact that Iberia hasn't been able to take anything of the UK/Ireland-Spain market. I fly many weekends to Malaga, and there are probably around 50 flights a day to the UK & Ireland. None of them operated by a Spanish airline.


User currently offlinemainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2097 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11261 times:

Does anyone know why Vueling are stopping MAD - AGP from the end of October? I need to get between the two cities in June, and the only alternative is a 07.20 Spanair flight, IB for an incredible 140 euro or the train for 90 euro.

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 13):
BFS-LPL-MAD return on easyJet/Ryanair for £100

Or BFS-MAN-MAD!  


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11180 times:

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 11):

Considering Iberia's current domestic on-board service is just as bad as a low-cost airline, the passengers won't even notice anything has changed...

Unless you're a business class passenger...


User currently offlinebuyantukhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2899 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11091 times:

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 5):
setting up a separate company (with a lower costbase) to operate some short haul flights.

And then what will happen to Air Nostrum? If they have a lower cost base than mainline IB, there is no point - if they don't, they'll be disposed of, or what?



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlinevincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11042 times:

Another prime example of waste (time, money, and resources). Why bother? Their intra-European operations are already LCC (except Moscow and Istanbul) that they're best off just keeping one IB brand.

User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 815 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 11005 times:

Quoting vincewy (Reply 17):

Another prime example of waste (time, money, and resources). Why bother? Their intra-European operations are already LCC (except Moscow and Istanbul) that they're best off just keeping one IB brand.


As already stated, the Iberia brand will remain. There will be no new brand.

IB short haul may be LCC in service but I suspect it isn't in terms of cost base.


User currently offlineblink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5482 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10881 times:

What happened to Clickair? I thought they were an IB-created carrier.


Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10786 times:

Quoting blink182 (Reply 19):
What happened to Clickair? I thought they were an IB-created carrier.

Merged into Vueling


User currently offlinetaichen From Spain, joined Jul 2001, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9766 times:

At one point, Iberia was the first "legacy" Euroepan airline to intoduce a BOB menu. Swiss , Austrian and IIRC KLM (?) followed suit, but backtracked later.

Then came Clickair : a BCN-based low cost owned by Iberia, which took all BCN operations save the MAD-BCN leg and some other domestic flights, plus some international ones. It was more or less an "updated" version of the Aviaco subsidiary, using the older A320 in the Iberia flights and going LCC all the way. Clickair codeshared with IB, but did not carry pets, UMs, etc, which was a major concern for many Spanish passengers who depended on Iberia. (that is, not because they were fond of IB, but because there were little or no alternatives)

Clickair was an ultimate failure, and it eventually merged with Vueling, and the "new" Vueling was born : Vueling is now an airline where IB has a (not-so-minor) share, it is well tied with IB (all VY flights codeshare with IB) and again VY flies all IB traffic, plus some other routes. Still, Iberia does not proactively sell VY as its own product, even if many IB flights are VY codeshares. Also, vueling uses the Iberia logo from time to time on their marketing product (mostly because of the Iberia Plus frequent flyer scheme)

Iberia European and short haul product is almost 100% low cost, and even then IB is not happy, claims it is not making money, and started tallking some years ago about an "IB Express" low cost for domestic and European flights. After the BA/ IB merger, there were rumors saying than IB would eventually become BA's low cost brtand in Europe and fly from LGW as well. (?!).

At any rate, VY has taken some further IBeria A320 and operated many other Iberia domestic flights, and at he same time Air Nostrum, the regional affiliate, is now operating some CRJ 1000 and flying many other domestic legs. Iberia is shrinking by the month and someytimes I think it is just a longjhaul airline which sells tickets for two domestic /european airlines : high-priced ( offering business class and a very average economy) Air Nostrum and LCC-alike (offering some fake business class services à la Easyjet) Vueling. Still, in the last weeks Iberia has withdrawn the Vueling codeshare in some airports and is still flying those flights with its own brand / metal.

So, what would be next ? Honestly, I think very few people have a clue. Everytime I check iberia.com is a new surprise for me, honestly.


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9484 times:
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It seems even with the BA-IB merger, IB is a lost soul and can not find itself. I was hoping with this merger, BA would set a solid foundation for IB and their mainline short/medium haul flights would be improved. No such luck. It seems now Vueling doesn't do it for them, so let's start another mediocre LCC to take over all domestic and European markets and we'll try and improve original IB mainline longhaul product and image.

User currently offlineDLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9073 times:

How can you get much more LCC than IB in economy on short and medium haul? Short of hawking smokeless cigarettes, a 'business" class and getting AAdvantage miles (a whopping 250 for a 1,300 mile flight), I don't see much difference between true IB and U2 or FR. The pitch is tight, you don't even get a free glass of water or cup of coffee, and the service is blah at best.


717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2640 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8942 times:
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Quoting vincewy (Reply 17):
Another prime example of waste (time, money, and resources). Why bother? Their intra-European operations are already LCC (except Moscow and Istanbul) that they're best off just keeping one IB brand.

Can someone please tell me what's the difference with Moscow and Istanbul, and why are these two different.

Thanks


25 GSTBA : I think that IB is looking at this all wrong. FR ,VY etc may offer low fares but there extra charges soon mount up. There is still the market for a ai
26 rutankrd : No YOU are getting it WRONG like many on these forums that confuse LCC with Low (Complex) Fares operators. Again IBERIA are NOT starting another comp
27 vincewy : Not sure at this point but for those 2 flights out of MAD, you get hot meals just like their long hauls. Even their long haul flights are approaching
28 taichen : Moscow, Istanbul (and some others, such as Warsaw or Athens, IIRC just get meals and such because they arelonger flights. On the other hand, Clickair
29 caribillo : AFAIK the decision about creating a LCC has been already taken. We're talking about reducing costs here, not about modifying the service/image perceiv
30 smi0006 : I actually think this is a good step and something that is being mirrored around the world. Reduced labour costs. No one looses jobs, however all new
31 caribillo : Not sure about the happiness of the unions. Ground staff and F/A unions have accepted in their Labour Agreements to be tranfered to a new company in
32 Babybus : Hang on a minute, Iberia once had an LCC airline called Viva in the 80s. That didn't last very long. Spain, and France, might benefit from having less
33 taichen : Sort of LCC "avant la lettre", yes. Viva air was Iberia's charter airline at first, then it became a full-service airline that flew on behalf of IB,
34 Talaier : Its IAG's way of avoiding a hard fight against the unions like the one suffered in BA. Instead of re-organising the staff, they just create another c
35 icaro : MAD-LIM is a 12 hours flight and you get a hot meal, a sandwich and a light meal before landing, plus any drink you want during the flight. How of a
36 Post contains images r2rho : Only a handful of people on this thread understand what is going on here... you first need to differentiate between: 1) low cost base 2) no-frills ser
37 Post contains links r2rho : It's official. The new low cost-base 100% owned subsidiary has been launched and will be called Iberia Express. Based in MAD, it will start operations
38 Post contains images spantax : This opens the promissing and exciting perspective of a lot of entertaining and well-deserved "Bashing Iberia and Iberia Express" threads
39 JJJ : Easy, they will fly with IB flight numbers and booking will be through IB mainline, à la YW. I am sure the livery and uniforms will involve adding a
40 downtown273 : Will all Iberia Express' flights be from/to MAD? Iberia centralized all its operations in MAD (and then decentralized some to BCN, i.e. BCN-MIA). All
41 nostrum : I would like to see a merger of Iberia Express and Vueling. From my point of view it seems it could benefit Iberia Express future since the Iberia bra
42 rutankrd : Can you NO GET THIS surely you can read/understand. There are NOT two LCC brands. Iberia Express is just like BA Gatwick ops or Team Alitalia . ITS a
43 nostrum : Thanks for explaining; but the caps and comment were unnecessary, not to say rude. I suppose that's an update since as far as I read on some Spanish
44 blackwidow : Unlike BA Gatwick then... - You get free drink and food onboard, BA self handling (high cost), and BA engineering (with a hanger)...... But I get you
45 Post contains images SXI899 : Don't sweat it too much, it's a common misconception. Simply put, a low-cost carrier (LCCs) is one where the operating costs are lower than other sim
46 kelual : It looks like to get a free drink and a sandwich makes the difference between being a low cost airline or not. I guess from this point of view United
47 r2rho : For the time being it seems yes, and my guess is for the future as well. I can imagine IB Express progressively taking over all IB short-haul ops at
48 Post contains images FoxDelta : For now, eventually I fear that IB management will come and say "Hey, long range isn't doing that well, let's start transfering our worst performing
49 Viscount724 : Not KLM.
50 Post contains links r2rho : There's an interview of IB's CEO in Spanish in El Pais today, don't have time to summarize it right now but it confirms that IBX will be a low cost ba
51 JJJ : They did that once, remember Audeli? For quite some time they flew two A340 for IB.
52 Post contains images FoxDelta : Right on, and 5 years seems even short to me, maybe 10 (obiously depending on economic climate and so on)
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