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Airlines Allow Pax To Fly On A Cargo Plane  
User currently offlineFlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1987 posts, RR: 25
Posted (3 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 19267 times:

I was watching a TV show that three zoo keepers flew on a 747 cargo plane from China to SIN and then fly from SIN to Adelaide because they brought two pandas to Australia. Singapore Airlines allow to have three zoo keepers and other staff to fly on a cargo plane and look after them. Wow they must be very lucky to fly on it. Also I would love to fly on a cargo plane one day!! hehe.

Another story, I know most airlines also allow some horses to fly on a cargo plane but i suspected that there were no pax to look after the horses inside the cabin.

I am wondering how they (who aren't working for the airlines) got a special permission to fly on a cargo plane.


The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 19280 times:

Quoting FlyboyOz (Thread starter):
I am wondering how they (who aren't working for the airlines) got a special permission to fly on a cargo plane.

They will be on board to keep an eye on loading of the animals, keep check of them in the air, and be there to supervise the unloading and transportation to their final destination.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39906 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 19266 times:

This would be great opportunity to fly on a DC-8 or 707.

Quoting FlyboyOz (Thread starter):
Also I would love to fly on a cargo plane one day!! hehe.

Have one of your friends put you inside of a box and drop you off at a UPS or FedEx store and off you go.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineFlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1987 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 19237 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Have one of your friends put you inside of a box and drop you off at a UPS or FedEx store and off you go.

Haha.... Cargo planes do have pax seats. I like to be alone and to have a quiet time inside the cabin.



The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
User currently offlinelh526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2374 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 19221 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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LH does it all the time. Animal attendants and keepers looking after their valued cargo, even horse owners and trainers fly with their stallions and sleep in paletted seats in the cargo bay.
Lufthansa Sky Chefs (LHs catering branch) had chefs flying throughout the world on LH cargo planes and for example haul large boxes of rare fish or sparkling ice from Alaska or other delicatessen.



Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9527 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 19173 times:

Normal procedure, happens on a daily basis, especially with animal transports.

I did that a couple of times as well, not with animals but regular cargo flown on a chartered aircrarft. Once had a project with 4 consecutive CL44 charters to KRT. I went on the first one, via ATH and back on the last via CAI. Origin was Sion in Switzerland and the carrier was Transvalair. Taking off from Sion and making a right curve towards the Matterhorn was one of the great experiences, especiall as I stood behind the flight crew and watched the scenery. 1977 i think that was.

Also, Cargolux had regular passengers between LUX and Far eastern destinations in their 742, but only regular freight customers, shippers and freight forwarders.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineBAViscount From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2338 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 19152 times:

I have a friend from Zimbabwe who lived in London for a while. He used to talk about a friend of his who was a pilot for a cargo airline that flew from Harare to Manston in Kent who would often manage to get his friends aboard those flights. He used to talk about mattresses tied to the floor to sleep on, although how true all that is I'm not sure - he did like to tell tall tales at times!


Ladies & gentlemen this is Captain Tobias Wilcock welcoming you aboard Coconut Airways flight 372 to Bridgetown Barb
User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4273 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 19142 times:

I chartered an Antonov 12 once for my company and flew a positioning flight and back with cargo on this aircraft. Also, as company attendant for the airline I worked for, I took several flights on B747-400F's to supervise and take care for one 'passenger' attending the cargo. It's common practise in the industry.


"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14062 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 19131 times:

Many cargo airlines also allow employees and their families / partners to fly for a small nominal fee (mostly for taxes) on their cargo aircraft. Unfortunately my boss is strictly against this idea, don´t ask me why. It would be a great morale booster for the staff and would cost the company almost nothing.

Jan


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3368 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 18865 times:

Remember the Tom Hanks movie, where he was an employee of Fed-Ex and he was riding as a passenger when it crashed in the Pacific. Yes cargo airlines do have non cockpit crew and employees fly more often than you may think. Not sure about mattresses on the floor. But as my Dad was an in-flight air mechanic with Aerovias Panama in the Congo during their war, he saw way weirder stuff than a mattress. Flying animals with or without escorts was the tame stuff.


AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 weeks ago) and read 18636 times:

Many years ago the Dutch queen (and her party) traveled on a Martinair 747-200F to Hong Kong (on the Upper Deck) from which she took the F70 for the final leg to Japan(for a state visit).

User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7308 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 18453 times:
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Was on a chartered A310 to YYZ for a guy moving his farm animals after Obama got elected and he refused to live in the US anymore. Paid close to $200,000 to move some donkeys, horses, chickens, goats, sheep, ducks, cats, and dogs. Density on the a/c was under 10% and he was handing out $100 bills as tips to the ground crew who loaded his extended family.   


I miss the old Anet.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5494 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 18353 times:

Half-pax, half-cargo ops in Alaska used to be pretty common.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 18152 times:

Any NW folks in the house? Did they let employees non-rev on the 742s?? Odd thing to do but nerds like us would love to 


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 18041 times:
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Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 13):
Any NW folks in the house? Did they let employees non-rev on the 742s?? Odd thing to do but nerds like us would love to 

Typically no. Only pilot jumpseaters were allowed to ride on the freighters. And for awhile after 9-11, even they were restricted from flying on them as well. The reason behind it was becuase NW didn't want to shoulder the cost of having to provide passenger security screening for the freighters and also would have to come up with a safety programme for carrying passengers aboard the aircraft. Also, the frieghters were exempt from the requirements of reinforced FD doors fitted, which these were required for passenger civil-aircraft. The cabin seats weren't occupied for take-off and landing, except for when load-crew specialists were taken along on some trips, while the jumpseaters had to sit in the flight deck for take-off and landing. Considering that most freighters rarely operated on route where people commuted from, they rarely ever carried anyone, from what I was told, becuase usually there was a better alternative. I got to go on a freighter once, and really, there is nothing spectacular about it, and the upper deck is very minimal to say the least, most had no windows. NW didn't really invest much into the comforts on the freighter fleet.

[Edited 2011-10-01 11:01:13]


Made from jets!
User currently offlineidlewild From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 17706 times:
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I was always curious that outside of Classic 747 Combis, why cargo carriers with 744Fs (converted) never made the upper deck all business or first class only seating. Don't cargo planes have abetter on time record and wouldn't the boarding & customs process be quick considering the small amount of passengers? Are there reasons for them not doing this besides jetjack74's pointing out about reinforced doors? Insurance? Payload? Expense?

User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 17503 times:
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Quoting idlewild (Reply 15):
I was always curious that outside of Classic 747 Combis, why cargo carriers with 744Fs (converted) never made the upper deck all business or first class only seating. Don't cargo planes have abetter on time record and wouldn't the boarding & customs process be quick considering the small amount of passengers? Are there reasons for them not doing this besides jetjack74's pointing out about reinforced doors? Insurance? Payload? Expense?

An airline called Seaboard World did that in the 1970's and Flying Tigers continued to do it as well after they bought SW out. There were passenger services complete with meals services on the freighter aircraft. They had reservations, a check-in counter and departure lounges at JFK and some of the destinations they served. I have a book about them, it's called "The Seaboard World Saga" and it goes through the company's entire history. But it wouldn't work today because current safety laws restrict passenger aircraft from being allowed to carry flammable, highly volatile haz-mat, where most freighters are.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3508 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 17408 times:

Quoting idlewild (Reply 15):
I was always curious that outside of Classic 747 Combis, why cargo carriers with 744Fs (converted) never made the upper deck all business or first class only seating. Don't cargo planes have abetter on time record and wouldn't the boarding & customs process be quick considering the small amount of passengers? Are there reasons for them not doing this besides jetjack74's pointing out about reinforced doors? Insurance? Payload? Expense?

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that this would be a convenient alternative for premium passengers...cargo planes don't tend to fly the non-stop routes they're looking for. Not many premium pax want to fly SIN-NRT-ANC-EWR on a cargo jet when they can fly SIN-EWR non-stop. Aside from that, there's the expense of security, cabin crew, food, IFE, etc...I don't think there's an airline on this planet that wants to make that kind of investment in its freighter fleet when it can offer a much better product on a dedicated pax plane. I'm sure there are also various regulations that either get in the way or outright prohibit this.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 718 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 17180 times:

How much would it cost for me to ship something and tag along the flight as a "courier" or someone overseeing his cargo. At ORD we get a whole bunch of interesting 747 cargo's

User currently onlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 799 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 17143 times:

my dad (ex Pan Am) had used Flying Tigers out of JFK a few times. He said they had a few first class seats upstairs. He also was served meals on the flight. Very cool.

User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9077 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 16978 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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I don't know how other airline handle it, but I had many many many times freight attendants on board. For horses, for expensive art or other stuff.
I don't know how much these tickets were, but I guess the costumer has to pay for all the stuff for the attendants. Usually they were pretty nice and took good care of the horses etc.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 16976 times:

We have a number of situations that allow non employee jumpseaters to fly. Horse attendants being one.

User currently offlinePilsnerUrquell From Czech Republic, joined Nov 2009, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16867 times:

Had a couple of flights o/b frighters in Colombia back in 90'. It was BOG-BAQ on SE210F Lineas Aereas Suramericanas, BOG-PDA-BOG on C46 LAS and BOG-BAQ on DC8F Tampa. Was easy to get on tarmac in BOG and than simply ask...that C46 crashed later.

PU


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11668 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16868 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
This would be great opportunity to fly on a DC-8 or 707.

Indeed, it's something I've looked into. Unfortunately last night my girlfriend gave me the firm answer that she was keeping all three of her horses, she had been wanting to sell one, and I was hoping it may have involved a DC-8 flight. Well no, I was going to make sure it did  But, she wants to buy an Icelandic pony now... from Iceland.   

Quoting lh526 (Reply 4):
LH does it all the time. Animal attendants and keepers looking after their valued cargo, even horse owners and trainers fly with their stallions and sleep in paletted seats in the cargo bay.

Indeed, it's a requirement of travelling animals by air. If a horse freaks in flight the owner, handler or trainer are the best people to calm it down. A lot of the horses flying are worth six or seven figure sums, so you want to make their flight as safe and comfortable as possible.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinebps3458 From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16835 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 17):
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that this would be a convenient alternative for premium passengers

I guess it all depends on the route and type of freighter. I chartered at Cargolux 744 in June from the UK to Australia. Routing was PIK-GYD-SIN-SYD. Operating air craft was LX-WCV which at that time was the second youngest air craft in their fleet. 2 men crew all the way so got to use the crew rest area (real beds). Never had a better sleep on a plane (am regular business class traveller on QF, SQ, EY, CX) and would prefer this "freighter" option any time on the Europe to Australia route. Was certainly a once in a life time experience.

Cheers from Brisbane,

Peter


25 Post contains links grimey : Homer & Bart Simpson did it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_on_the_Road Grimey
26 B6MoneyGuyJFK : Does flying on a KLM 747 combi count?
27 cubastar : Back in '70s, I flew a scheduled L-100 (commercial Lockheed C-130) DFW-LAX-SFO with three thoroughbreds and 2 trainers aboard. Somewhere near Phoenix,
28 avek00 : In addition to the fact that most cargo aircraft make multiple stops where pax a/c go nonstop, there's also the reality that cargo flights tend to run
29 er757 : I think you'd be disappointed if you did. Unless you like flying in the middle of the night with limited amenities.
30 Flyer732 : Its not all its cracked up to be. I fly on cargo planes every single week, multiple times. You're very rarely on time (outside of the FedEx/UPS world)
31 jetjeanes : Through the years it has not been uncommon most have a couple pax seat available, Now i had one dc-9 flight that did not and the jumpseat in the cockp
32 Post contains images jetjack74 : This is the book The ladder was how the pax boarded the aircraft on it's upperdeck passenger cabin The check-in desk at their JFK HQ/terminal A promo
33 bps3458 : I actually prepared the meals for the crew. Had a blast on my own "private" 747. Great catering as well. Great sandwiches catered in LUX prior to pos
34 aklrno : The formal name for non-flight crew passengers on a freighter is "supernumeraries". Each aircraft type must apply to the FAA for permission to carry t
35 laxboeingman : I remember watching a show on Discovery Wings about a cargo flight. The cargo was a small number of horses and the trainers, and/or maybe a vet, flew
36 BMI727 : Cargo flying on a passenger plane. The passengers are not supernumeraries but passengers who require all of the facilities as they would on an all pa
37 JAAlbert : Boeing was considering converting the nose of its DreamLifters into passenger space so the plane could transport Boeing and Supplier employees between
38 laxboeingman : Thank you; that is what I thought. Also because the pax are in their normal spots on the e/q. Yes, that would be very cool. Thank you again, laxboein
39 Kaphias : They still are; AS has five 734 combi (half pax half cargo) that they still fly. I've been on them a couple of times, it's a pretty unique experience
40 jetpilot : I used to jumpseat in the back of freighters all the time. It sucks! It's cold, and loud, and you're staring at a 9G net. The lights are always on 100
41 FlyboyOz : Well... I don't mind about them as long as I enjoy flying. I can visit flight deck and talk to the pilots. I love stopovers and to explore the airpor
42 N62NA : We're now at the point where a horse on a plane is more comfortable than the rest of us stuck in coach!
43 stratosphere : Its funny I feel the same way and in a lot of freighters you are flying backwards as well looking at the 9G net with no windows. But some like it cuz
44 FedExFlyerPHL : Jumping in late on this thread, but I have twice done animal transports and have flown on FedEx. They require two handlers to go along on the flight.
45 BMI727 : Some operators of converted 747s leave some of the previous owner's seats up top, even if they shorten the upper deck. Surprising that the TSA goons
46 Post contains links and images airtran737 : Flying on the DC-10 and MD-11 pretty much blows. Most of the time you are in the back sleeping on the floor (which is filled with bags), or behind the
47 RWA380 : Air Marshall Islands used to fly a DC-8 mixed freighter to HNL from MAJ & KWJ. Cargo up front and the big cargo door on the right side of the plan
48 Post contains links and images jetjack74 : I believe ATI ended up with that aircraft. They used to call her Lil AMI(slang for Little Amy). Airliners Magazine did a story about it years ago, I
49 BMI727 : Ex-Air France?
50 Post contains links and images tb727 : This one smells like a barn inside but the supernumeraries(and pilots)are used to it... View Large View MediumPhoto © Ralph M. Pettersen
51 rydawg82 : At least through 2005, Alaska Airlines would occasionally transport horses between Anchorage and Seattle on a 737-200 combi. A animal trainer would ri
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