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Porter Launching EWR - Mont Tremblant  
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5409 times:

This route is a seasonal route that has been operated over the years by COEX ERJs and CO Connection Q400s, apparently this year it's being operated by Porter Air.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/por...-mont-tremblant-flights-2011-10-03


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3626 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5388 times:

I didn't know this was ever operated! I wonder how much traffic they will generate. Ride is about 7 hours.

Now if I could get a non stop to Lake Placid! haha


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5353 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):
I didn't know this was ever operated

This route has been operated for years (seven years?) during Ski Season by CO, this season it appears Porter got the contract. On the days this flight operates Porter will be up to 12 daily flights from EWR, really impressive.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3680 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5332 times:

Will this flight have to go through customs? IIRC all the rest are precleared in Canada?


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5297 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 3):
Will this flight have to go through customs? IIRC all the rest are precleared in Canada

Not all airports in Canada have preclearance, only the big airports (YYZ, YUL, YOW, YVR, Calgary etc..).



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinevio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1446 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5300 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 3):
Will this flight have to go through customs? IIRC all the rest are precleared in Canada?

Probably. It's idiotic that I have to go through US Customs on Canadian soil. I guess Canadians had to bow down to the great US of A. Hey don't get me wrong, I like our friendly neighbor to the South, but if say Pakistan was to put Pakistani customs at JFK, the Americans wouldn't like it very much.

I've been to Tremblant quite a few times. It's a nice little resort and the mountain is half decent. A lot of Americans travel there for vacation so I can see Porter doing well. An off topic question, does Porter fly to Tremblant from Toronto?



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5279 times:

Quoting vio (Reply 5):
It's idiotic that I have to go through US Customs on Canadian soil.

Is it idiotic that you have access to LGA and DCA, which would not exist but for preclearance?

Is it idiotic that when you hop on a 1:00 p.m. flight to ORD, you don't have to endure an hour plus wait for immigration and customs with all of the European arrivals at Terminal 5?

What, exactly, is idiotic?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSPQR From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5268 times:

Quoting vio (Reply 5):

I see nothing wrong with the pre-clearance program, it opens up a ton of airports in the US that would otherwise not be available due to no customs there. In addition, if flying to a major centre, I'd rather pre-clear in YOW or YUL than to land in MIA have have to hit customs there 10 minutes after 6 flights have arrived from South America


User currently offlinevio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1446 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5257 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
Is it idiotic that when you hop on a 1:00 p.m. flight to ORD, you don't have to endure an hour plus wait for immigration and customs with all of the European arrivals at Terminal 5?

What, exactly, is idiotic?

Not to deviate from the topic, but the resources and organization of American customs is NOT my problem and frankly, as a Canadian I don't want them enforcing US laws on Canadian soil, regardless of how insignificant they may be. So yes, I would rather wait in line 2 hours in ORD than have US customs in Toronto.



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5249 times:

Quoting vio (Reply 8):
Not to deviate from the topic, but the resources and organization of American customs is NOT my problem

No, it's not your problem. But why shouldn't governments cooperate to make things easier for passengers? What's the harm?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

Quoting vio (Reply 5):
Hey don't get me wrong, I like our friendly neighbor to the South, but if say Pakistan was to put Pakistani customs at JFK, the Americans wouldn't like it very much.

We host the United Nations, they have their own laws and immunities. We have to host the likes of the leader of Iran in New York on American soil.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2462 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5196 times:

Quoting vio (Reply 8):
Not to deviate from the topic, but the resources and organization of American customs is NOT my problem and frankly, as a Canadian I don't want them enforcing US laws on Canadian soil, regardless of how insignificant they may be. So yes, I would rather wait in line 2 hours in ORD than have US customs in Toronto.

Without turning this into a political thread, just look for a second at the practical realities of the pre-clearance system. There are far more American airports with service into Canada than there are Canadian airports with service into the USA. Plenty of those American airports with limited transborder flights do not have a full-time FIS available or are very restricted in capacity.

This is an effective allocation of assets and IMO a system that is a great benefit for travelers on both sides of the 49th parallel.


User currently offlineBDABOY From Bermuda, joined Nov 2004, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5112 times:

Having US customs pre-clearance here in BDA is a godsend. The longest you ever have to stand in line is 5 minutes, and the officials are always really friendly. I've had monstrous waits for clearance in MIA and JFK coming from latin america and europe only to be faced with worn out rude (not that I can necessarily blame them) staff.

User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5109 times:

Quoting vio (Reply 5):
Probably. It's idiotic that I have to go through US Customs on Canadian soil. I guess Canadians had to bow down to the great US of A.

You do realize the biggest single beneficiary of pre-clearance has been Air Canada, right?


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8656 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
Is it idiotic that when you hop on a 1:00 p.m. flight to ORD, you don't have to endure an hour plus wait for immigration and customs with all of the European arrivals at Terminal 5?

Well in that regard, on my last trip to Canada I spent 1.5 hours waiting in line to pre-clear immigration at YYC.
If ORD has problems handling the volume they should build more adequate immigration facilities rather than shift the load onto Canadian airports.

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 13):
You do realize the biggest single beneficiary of pre-clearance has been Air Canada, right?

That's debatable. I'd say the US taxpayer is a significant beneficiary by not having to foot the bill for more and improved immigration facilities at our airports. Like with everything else, it's an economic decision not a political one and I suspect both the US and Canada win on this one.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
If ORD has problems handling the volume they should build more adequate immigration facilities rather than shift the load onto Canadian airports.

An hour wait might be acceptable after a 10 hour flight from WAW but not after a 1.5 hour flight from YYZ.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCuriousFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 702 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

Pre-clearance is a pain because you have to get to the airport early but it is good because you are out of the airport earlier. I don't mind it.

Coming back to Porter, it looks like great news. CO's coverage of Tremblant was not sufficient unless one would go there for a whole week. And unfortunately Tremblant is way too small to spend a whole week of our scarce vacations there. On the other hand, if I can leave on the Friday, ski in the afternoon, and maybe come back via Toronto on a Sunday evening or Monday morning flight, I may be interested!!

Previously when going to Tremblant I had to fly to YUL and drive two hours, no fun in winter (drive from NYC: 9-10 hours depending on traffic/weather).


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4178 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4921 times:
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Quoting vio (Reply 8):
as a Canadian I don't want them enforcing US laws on Canadian soil, regardless of how insignificant they may be.

All they do basically is decide whether or not passengers can get on a plane, they have no power of arrest. If you do something stupid inside the pre-clearance area, you'll deal with Canadian police. Not that much different from security guards in front of some embassies filtering people and deciding who can and cannot go in.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
I'd say the US taxpayer is a significant beneficiary by not having to foot the bill for more and improved immigration facilities at our airports.

If they'd build a FIS station at every airport AC flies in that doesn't have one now, you'd likely be correct. The way things are, however, I think it more likely AC would be told to go land somewhere else.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinevio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1446 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4889 times:

Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 16):
Coming back to Porter, it looks like great news. CO's coverage of Tremblant was not sufficient unless one would go there for a whole week. And unfortunately Tremblant is way too small to spend a whole week of our scarce vacations there. On the other hand, if I can leave on the Friday, ski in the afternoon, and maybe come back via Toronto on a Sunday evening or Monday morning flight, I may be interested!!

I can see how that will be a bit better. See I don't find Tremblant to be that bad, but you're right, it wouldn't be at the top of my vacation lists. Maybe back in the day when we were in high-school and the entire class went to Quebec on ski trips. Those were loads of fun. I think a "weekend getaway" may be more appropriate for these flights. I wonder what the fares would be.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 17):
If they'd build a FIS station at every airport AC flies in that doesn't have one now, you'd likely be correct. The way things are, however, I think it more likely AC would be told to go land somewhere else.

Hmm... I think every airport that Air Canada or Jazz flies to has US Customs. I have flown to airports in Montana, etc that have no scheduled service to Canada (Great Falls, Montana for example). All I had to do is file a trans-border report and call US Customs. They had me taxi to the customs ramp in Great Falls, showed my papers, my plane was checked and off I went in less that 10 minutes.

Tell me one airport in the US to which Air Canada, Westjet, Jazz or Porter flies to that does NOT have US Customs. If Great Falls, Montana has them, I doubt the rest don't.



Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2462 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4885 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
I'd say the US taxpayer is a significant beneficiary by not having to foot the bill for more and improved immigration facilities at our airports.

Is it established that the US taxpayer does not pay for these facilities in any measure? I find it exceedingly hard to believe that the capital costs of constructing these facilities isn't shared to some degree. I already know that US CBP bears substantially all of the operating expense.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4873 times:

Quoting vio (Reply 18):
Tell me one airport in the US to which Air Canada, Westjet, Jazz or Porter flies to that does NOT have US Customs.

That's the wrong question - all do. The right question is which airports do not have customs facilities suitable for the volume of transborder passengers they see and that's a much longer list. LGA and DCA are at the top.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2364 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4873 times:

Quoting vio (Reply 18):

Hmm... I think every airport that Air Canada or Jazz flies to has US Customs. I have flown to airports in Montana, etc that have no scheduled service to Canada (Great Falls, Montana for example). All I had to do is file a trans-border report and call US Customs. They had me taxi to the customs ramp in Great Falls, showed my papers, my plane was checked and off I went in less that 10 minutes.

Tell me one airport in the US to which Air Canada, Westjet, Jazz or Porter flies to that does NOT have US Customs. If Great Falls, Montana has them, I doubt the rest don't.

Its not that they have NO customs (I believe they still must fly to an airport with customs/immigration in case they need to recheck the plane), its just that some airports they fly to (i.e. LGA, DCA) have small and limited customs that cannot handle commercial planes on a regular, scheduled basis. There is a big difference between clearing a small Cessna and a 146 seat A320 that AC flies into LGA.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3070 posts, RR: 37
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4847 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 17):
Quoting vio (Reply 8):
as a Canadian I don't want them enforcing US laws on Canadian soil, regardless of how insignificant they may be.

All they do basically is decide whether or not passengers can get on a plane, they have no power of arrest. If you do something stupid inside the pre-clearance area, you'll deal with Canadian police.

  


Quoting vio (Reply 8):
I would rather wait in line 2 hours in ORD than have US customs in Toronto.

I don't know how frequently you travel to the U.S., but I suspect you're a minority of 1. The actual processing is also much faster because the majority of pax are Canadians and not therefore subject to US-VISIT biometric processing.

Quoting SPQR (Reply 7):
I see nothing wrong with the pre-clearance program, it opens up a ton of airports in the US that would otherwise not be available due to no customs there.

  

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 13):
You do realize the biggest single beneficiary of pre-clearance has been Air Canada, right?

  

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):
Ride is about 7 hours.

Only if you go via YYT. Otherwise, it's 1hr 10min.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3070 posts, RR: 37
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

Quoting vio (Reply 18):
Tell me one airport in the US to which Air Canada, Westjet, Jazz or Porter flies to that does NOT have US Customs. If Great Falls, Montana has them, I doubt the rest don't.

LGA, DCA do not accept international flights, except pre-cleared.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
Quoting vio (Reply 18):
Tell me one airport in the US to which Air Canada, Westjet, Jazz or Porter flies to that does NOT have US Customs.

That's the wrong question - all do. The right question is which airports do not have customs facilities suitable for the volume of transborder passengers they see and that's a much longer list.

  



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

IIRC The bilateral agreement allowes Canada to put CBSA at American airports. They, so far, have choosen not too.



I knew some folks who flew this with COEX and enjoyed it. Interesting to see portar take it.



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
25 caribb : Good news for Porter! ...and for Tremblant. For pre-clerance.. I've yet to hear any Canadian object to it.. it brings us and the Americans great benef
26 airbazar : My point is I waited 1.5 hours on the YYC side to pre-clear immigration. I don't see the difference between waiting before or after the flight. My ex
27 Post contains links YTZ : I thought so too and I have never understood why Canada never took up that offer at major US airports. Pre-clearance is far more efficient. First off
28 slcdeltarumd11 : WOW. Good luck to them!
29 steex : My guess is that Canada hasn't placed any pre-clearance facilities for two reasons: 1) There are far more travelers going Major Canadian Airport ->
30 saloman : Your point is based on anecdotal evidence. I've been in YYC pre-clearance lines that are so long they go back into the ticketing area, and still it's
31 flyguy89 : This is great, does anybody know what the exact schedule is yet? It's great seeing Porter continuing to grow, they have an excellent product and, IMO,
32 N62NA : And when the friendly US Customs and Border Protection officer denies your entry because he didn't like what color shirt you were wearing, you would
33 longhauler : Actually .. pre-clearnace has always favoured US carriers. It is one of the main reasons why with the advent of the CL-65, AC always went for "point-
34 fly2yyz : What about the fact that when you arrive in the US, you're basically a domestic arrival and just go down to baggage claim and that's it. Quick, Easy.
35 airbazar : Clearing immigration at a US airport has never taken me longer than half hour either and I do it multiple times a year. Again, what's the difference,
36 mainMAN : Not really enforcing US laws on anyone who isn't intending to arrive on US soil. I get your point, I really do........... but how I wish we had pre-c
37 Kaiarahi : That's because you use the U.S. passport lines. 90% of the pax in the other lines have to be biometrically processed. Take a look at the non-U.S. lin
38 vio : Well assumption is not correct. I used to travel to the US at leas once every two weeks for company meetings and such. I can't even remember how many
39 RJLover : YVR, YYC, YEG, YWG, YYZ, YOW, YUL, + YHZ, to be specific.
40 csavel : Well it isn't as if some cowboys in the US are forcing Canada to do it. A lot of valid criticisms can be thrown at US throwing their weight around -
41 Kaiarahi : It's never taken me 1-1.5 hours to go through pre-clearance in YVR. More like 15 minutes. I think you're conflating immigration clearance and securit
42 B727FA : Better close every embassy in Canada, then.
43 Arrow : You need to apply a little critical thinking to this. Whether you go through US customs at the front end or the back end, it will have the same impac
44 Post contains images aamd11 : Not off-topic at all... indeed, the EWR-YTM service is part of the overall YTM program itself. Porter will be flying more flights to YTM than ever be
45 Viscount724 : There are at least 50 daily transborder flights from Canadian airports that lack preclearance. YYJ, YLW, YXE, YQR, YXU, YTZ, YQB and YQM are the main
46 bravo1six : NEXUS. Nuff said.
47 CO777DAL : Something I always wondered... Are the people who work US Customs and Immigration in Canada US Citizens? They work for our Federal govt but live in Ca
48 Post contains links blueflyer : It's coming to a Canadian airport with US pre-clearance near you soon. Actually, YUL and one more airport (I think YWG) have "it" already. Bags conne
49 SSTsomeday : Right, plus anyone pre-cleared is completely free to exit the pre-cleared area at anytime back to public space. Also those within the pre-cleared are
50 JoeCanuck : I like pre clearing in Canada. That gives a lot more options for US destinations and means that you can use the domestic terminals in the US, instead
51 Post contains images planesmith :
52 slcdeltarumd11 : CO had a real boost with its huge FF base in EWR. The main competition will be the car. It is smart to only run it at the ideal times on the weekends.
53 mozart : Sure pre-clearance is a great thing because it allows you to avoid long waiting lines at places like ORD, LAX, SFO, etc. But it's an intellectual shor
54 YTZ : Except by your own admission, you were saving time. You'd be spending 1-1.5 hrs after arrival going through customs. But you'd still have to arrive a
55 YTZ : They are US citizens and work for the US government but are posted in Canada. Kinda like military personnel posted abroad.
56 ghYHZ : Speaking as a frequent traveler to BOS, pre-clearance at YHZ is a breeze and on arrival at Logan, if I time it right, I can on Boylston St. downtown w
57 Post contains links csavel : I hear you but I remember growing up things were looser. Another reason why US-Canada need a Schengen like open border. Not only are there towns and
58 AirCanada787 : Do you know if eventually it will be at all airports with pre-clearance? I assume that someday it will be. I find it somewhat amusing that they appar
59 YTZ : Unfortunately this is not a tenable proposition for either country. For Canada, such an equal partnership means ceding sovereignty and adhering to Am
60 blueflyer : YYZ was to be next this summer, AC even had the new process up on their YYZ transit web page, but it was then pulled and it didn't happen. I don't ha
61 abrelosojos : = I thought the US taxpayers do foot the bill? = PSP. = 2 year rotations. Saludos, A.
62 bjorn14 : Back to Tremblant, if there is no Canadian preclearance at EWR how does YTM customs handle more than 15 pax from GA traffic only....according to their
63 Post contains links Kaiarahi : http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/media/rel...ommunique/2008/2008-06-18-eng.html
64 blueflyer : So "winter chartered flights" don't pay extra but everyone else who needs CBSA does? Did I read that release correctly?
65 Kaiarahi : No, the practice has been that transport category pax flights outside the winter charter season must pay for service. CBSA announces each year (after
66 bjorn14 : Does anyone know how the YTM plans are going for the lengthening of the runway to 2500m?
67 jfklganyc : "Ride is about 7 hours. Only if you go via YYT. Otherwise, it's 1hr 10min." Really dude???? I meant by car!
68 STT757 : US Federal Law enforcement agents/officers must be US citizens. Correct, CO has been operating this route seasonally for the past five years or so. T
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