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Whats The Difference Between The 773 And 77W  
User currently offlineEUFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 26582 times:

Dont know if this is in the right forum, but here goes:

Can anyone tell me the major differences between the 773 and 77W. Does one type hold more passengers, fly further, or take more cargo.

Reminds me of the porsche 911, lots of different types but hard spot the differences.

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCargoLex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1261 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 26615 times:

Toughened up structures, more powerful engines, raked wingtips, and larger tanks characterize the 77W Vs. the earlier 773. The range went up by over 2000 nm, which is a pretty big jump, and the MTOW went up too - making the 77W a very useful aircraft. In comparison to the 77W, the 773 now seems almost like a short-range version. Consequently, once the 77W was introduced people stopped buying the 773. There are only 60 of them, Vs. ~300-and-growing for the 77W.

[Edited 2011-10-04 16:26:36]

User currently offlineEUFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 26481 times:

Many thanks for the information, can see why the 77W is the one to have with a 2000nm extra range.

User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 26128 times:

There are some airlines, however, that make economic use of the 773 - CX and SQ are 2 in particular. Because they have lower weights, because floor space is the same, if range is not an issue (e.g. 8 hour mission from SIN-SYD), then it is usually more economical to send a 773 than a 77W assuming configuration is identical. In CX's case, its 773's are configured in a more economy heavy configuration than its 77W's and is mostly used for runs through SE Asia, Japan and South Korea - the added weight of the 77W costs more to haul around.

Different planes for different missions - the 773 suited airlines like SQ and CX who were replacing 742's and 743's for their 3-4 hour regional routes - the 77W is a plane designed for 744 type (and obviously longer) missions. The 77W is capable of a lot more but if you were running an airline that had no routes over 8 hours (like SIN-NRT), then I would query whether the 77W is the right aircraft. For CX and SQ who both use the 77W on shorter routes, their 77W's fly 12+ hour flights regularly so the "intelligent mis-use" (as CX calls it) of the 77W isn't a problem.



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24917 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 26030 times:

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 3):
There are some airlines, however, that make economic use of the 773 - CX and SQ are 2 in particular.

Also JL and NH which use high-density 773s with 500 seats (JL) and 514 seats (NH) on shorthaul domestsic routes.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2949 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 25847 times:

Quoting EUFlyer (Reply 2):
Many thanks for the information, can see why the 77W is the one to have with a 2000nm extra range.

Bigger fuel tanks, higher MTOW, stronger engines as well as everything else = more range.

The 773 was simply a stretch of the 772. The 77W was totally reworked to make it a proper long haul aircraft...


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7561 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 25771 times:

Does KE operate 773s?


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineCargoLex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1261 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 25420 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 6):
Does KE operate 773s?

Yes, four of them. HL7532 (28371), HL7533 (27948), HL7534 (27950), and HL7573 (27952), all delivered in 1999/2000. Like CX, KE uses them with higher density interiors on routes around Asia. The interiors are configured F12 C28 Y336, where KE's 77W interiors are configured F8 C56 Y227.

[Edited 2011-10-05 00:17:53]

User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 25150 times:

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 3):
but if you were running an airline that had no routes over 8 hours (like SIN-NRT), then I would query whether the 77W is the right aircraft. For CX and SQ who both use the 77W on shorter routes, their 77W's fly 12+ hour flights regularly so the "intelligent mis-use" (as CX calls it) of the 77W isn't a problem.

CX and SQ are 2 airlines that show if you have routes under 8 hours, the current aircraft of choice is the A333.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2949 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 25077 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8):
Quoting The Coachman (Reply 3):
but if you were running an airline that had no routes over 8 hours (like SIN-NRT), then I would query whether the 77W is the right aircraft. For CX and SQ who both use the 77W on shorter routes, their 77W's fly 12+ hour flights regularly so the "intelligent mis-use" (as CX calls it) of the 77W isn't a problem.

CX and SQ are 2 airlines that show if you have routes under 8 hours, the current aircraft of choice is the A333.

The 77W's at both CX and SQ are in such high demand in their long haul divisions that there aren't many regional ops run using them. They only pop up where it makes sense for them to do so with regards to scheduling and aircraft utilisation (or when it goes onto a long haul leg, ie SQ on the way to SFO).


User currently offlineEagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1799 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 24847 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Also JL and NH which use high-density 773s with 500 seats (JL) and 514 seats (NH) on shorthaul domestsic routes

Thats a lot of bodies on a twin, who needs a domestic A380 with multiple departures of these aircraft.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 5):
The 773 was simply a stretch of the 772. The 77W was totally reworked to make it a proper long haul aircraft...
Quoting The Coachman (Reply 3):
Different planes for different missions - the 773 suited airlines like SQ and CX who were replacing 742's and 743's for their 3-4 hour regional routes - the 77W is a plane designed for 744 type (and obviously longer) missions.

Thanks for info, I too was wondering this. 2 nice comparisons.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8290 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 24832 times:
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Quoting The Coachman (Reply 3):

There are some airlines, however, that make economic use of the 773 - CX and SQ are 2 in particular. Because they have lower weights, because floor space is the same, if range is not an issue (e.g. 8 hour mission from SIN-SYD), then it is usually more economical to send a 773 than a 77W assuming configuration is identical. In CX's case, its 773's are configured in a more economy heavy configuration than its 77W's and is mostly used for runs through SE Asia, Japan and South Korea - the added weight of the 77W costs more to haul around.

The 777-300 & the 777-300ER are planes of two different eras. When the 777 was new in the 1990's airlines wanted a longer plane so the -300(no ER) was born with the same engines as the 777-200ER. The 777-300ER entered service in 2004, as a derivative of the 777-200LR. IT is really a very different plane that has found a market as a 744 replacement, no wonder the 748 has sold so poorly.

The 77W has found it wings with Cathay Pacific, it ordered 60, flying all the way from Hong Kong to JFK and Toronto. Emirates also uses them, they have 100, from Dubai all the way to LAX and Sao Paulo. These 2 airlines have pushed the limits of the 77W's peerformace, can't wait to see what the 777NG does.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2949 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 24198 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 11):
The 777-300ER entered service in 2004, as a derivative of the 777-200LR

Sorry to nitpick, but technically the 77L is a derivative of the 77W -- the 300ER was developed first, then translated into the smaller frame.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 11):
Emirates also uses them, they have 100

I though they were closer to 60 77W's. Overall 777s probably still falls short of 100.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6837 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 23686 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8):
CX and SQ are 2 airlines that show if you have routes under 8 hours, the current aircraft of choice is the A333.

This has been the case-the A330 has decisively won the airlines where very long range is not required. As the A330 has been improved it has proved to be more economical than any version of the 777. However, the A330 does not have the range of the 77W, and so where extremely long range is needed there is no substitute for the 77W. As others have noted, having the long range capability has its penalties in that even when you are not carrying all of that fuel you are still carrying the structure it requires. This is why both the A330 and the 77W are selling well (at least until the 787 becomes readily available, at which point A330 sales will dry up) and the 77E is not selling.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 12):

Sorry to nitpick, but technically the 77L is a derivative of the 77W -- the 300ER was developed first, then translated into the smaller frame.

This is true. The 77L was an offshoot of the 77W, and Boeing wasn't even going to develop it until a few airlines asked for it. It was a logical byproduct of the 77W, as it incorporated all of the changes with the shorter fuselage, but Boeing did not figure there was enough demand for it. That is why the 77W entered service over two years before the 77L. PIA was the launch customer for the 77L, but as I recall there were others that wanted it.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8290 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 23446 times:
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Quoting SEPilot (Reply 13):
This is true. The 77L was an offshoot of the 77W, and Boeing wasn't even going to develop it until a few airlines asked for it. It was a logical byproduct of the 77W, as it incorporated all of the changes with the shorter fuselage, but Boeing did not figure there was enough demand for it. That is why the 77W entered service over two years before the 77L. PIA was the launch customer for the 77L, but as I recall there were others that wanted it.

Emirates. Delta, Air Canada, Qatar.


User currently offlinetrent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 557 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 23446 times:

TG operates a 773 BKK/ATH/BKK for their 3 X weekly flights 4920 miles / 10h 50m

User currently offlinesf260 From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 23345 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 5):
The 773 was simply a stretch of the 772.

Sorry to nitpick, but technically that 773 was a stretch of the 77E. -Sorry, couldn't resist-  


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8237 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 23273 times:

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 8):
CX and SQ are 2 airlines that show if you have routes under 8 hours, the current aircraft of choice is the A333.

"current" being the key word here  
However when the 773 was bought by these airlines, for these missions, the A333 was no where near the quality plane that it is today. One also has to wonder if SQ would be flying A333's at all had it not been for the A380 delays. I don't mean to rehash this discussion but for so many years SQ denied interest in the A330 only to order a bunch at the exact same time that they were negotiation compensation for the A380 delays. It has to make you wonder.


User currently offlineflyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 23207 times:

In a nutshell:

B777-200 = B772
B777-300 = B773
B777-200LR = B77L
B777-300ER = B77W

Must be somebody at Eurocontrol, bored, wanting to confuse people and then laugh at them  

These are the official ICAO abbreviations that appear on Flight Strips, and Digital Flight Strips in ATC units.

[Edited 2011-10-05 07:06:18]


Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 23126 times:

Quoting flyAUA (Reply 18):
B777-200 = B772
B777-300 = B773
B777-200LR = B77L
B777-300ER = B77W

add

B777-200ER = B77E


User currently offlineflyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 23 hours ago) and read 23089 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 19):
B777-200ER = B77E

Thanks for pointing that out! Aren't the 200ERs shown as B772? Didn't think they got a "special" designator??



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4243 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 22 hours ago) and read 22741 times:
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Quoting flyAUA (Reply 20):
Aren't the 200ERs shown as B772?

Okay -- then what is a 772A?

I'm confused too.  


User currently offlineflyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 22 hours ago) and read 22636 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 21):
Okay -- then what is a 772A?

I'm confused too.

Never saw 772A on a flightstrip! Now I am confused too  

Either it doesn't officially exist in ICAO DOC 8643, or it just never flies over Austria, so I don't know that designator!



Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 22 hours ago) and read 22482 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 21):
Okay -- then what is a 772A?

I'm confused too.  

there are 6 variants total

777-200 (aka "A") - 772
777-200ER (aka "B") - 77E
777-200LR (aka "C") - 77L

777-300 - 773
777-300ER - 77W

777-200LRF (77F)

the 772A is used in select carriers in Asia and middle east as low-weight regional places, but even those are being gradually phased out (eg SQ). UA might have some 772A planes too doing TATL segments.


User currently offlineflyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 22 hours ago) and read 22224 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 23):

A copy & paste out of the latest ICAO DOC 8643 (2011) reveals the following:

Quote:

BOEING
===========================
777-200...........B772.......H........L2J
777-200ER.......B772.......H........L2J
777-200LR........B77L.......H.......L2J
777-300............B773.......H.......L2J
777-300ER........B77W.....H.......L2J
777-F.................B77L......H.......L2J


This means that the only official designators are B772, B773, B77L and B77W! Any other (invented/madeup) abbreviations for any 777 variants are simply industry jargon, and not ICAO, and therefore not worthy of differentiating between since ICAO only assigns new designators when a variant performs significantly differently.

What surprises me however is that they didn't assign the freighter with a separate designator as is usually the case with, say for example, the B74F   

EDIT: I take the last line back! The B747 Freighter is also not referred to as a B74F. I also looked up other freighters and these too didn't have the F suffix, so I am guessing the "F" is just industry jargon!

[Edited 2011-10-05 07:57:26]


Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
25 flyingalex : Which makes sense if you think about it - the aircraft performs the same way regardless of what it is transporting inside. A freight 777 does not han
26 seabosdca : There is no B77E ICAO code because the 777-200 ("A") and 777-200ER are identical for all ATC and airport purposes. ICAO describes both aircraft with t
27 Post contains images flyAUA : And it even makes sense if you look at it from that perspective THAT was the reason! Thanks for pointing out
28 Post contains images qf002 : though according to Reply 24 the 77E is officially the 772 anyway
29 Stitch : I think 77E is an airline code for the 777-200ER. I've seen TG use the designation.
30 seabosdca : Watch out for dueling IATA vs. ICAO codes... three-character codes are IATA codes, typically used to describe equipment in airline systems, while fou
31 YULWinterSkies : Then the 777-200LR was a shrink of the 77W, to make the 777 a proper ultra-long-haul aircraft, and a long-haul cargo aircraft (777-200F, a cargo vers
32 aerorobnz : 77E is only seems to be used when an airline operates both the early 'non ER' version as well, otherwise an ER is just a 772....
33 Post contains images wellies : Nobody's mentioned the main gear forward strut, have they? Forgive me as I'm by no means an expert, but the 77W has an extra semi-levered strut runnin
34 UAL747DEN : There is no doubt that the best thing to ever happen to the A330 was the A380 delay. Airbus was handing 330's out as compensation to anyone who would
35 hal9213 : Dont forget cargo. EK for example heavily relies on cargo. HAM-DXB is just under 7 hours flight, but the 773 has very often been at the maximum paylo
36 mogandoCI : aren't EWR-BRU/ZRH flown with 772A's too ?
37 Max Q : There is a 'soft limiter' in the FBW pitch control system. If it senses, excessive pitch rate and or angle it will make it very difficult for the Pil
38 wellies : Thanks for greatly fleshing that out, Max Q! Very interesting, and by far the better system of the two for experienced pilots, i would've thought.
39 OldAeroGuy : The semi-levered landing gear doesn't allow an increase in MTOW. By increasing the ground attitude for an airplane that is Vmu limited, it allows a s
40 Post contains images wellies : Translation - "Not bad for a truck driver" Thanks for the clarification.
41 N1120A : They do. UA doesn't use 77E. The sub-fleet of domestic configured 772As are indeed flown on domestic (Hawaii is domestic too, you know) trips. UA als
42 Tristarsteve : Yes, during take off the angle between the vertical oleo, and the horizontal truck is maintained at 90 deg. So when the aircraft rotates, it rotates
43 hal9213 : Could you clarify "unlike" what Airbus? And what would "hard" exactly be? There was that incident of an EK A345 at MEL, where they punched in 2xx ton
44 mogandoCI : ??? so all those 777 SFO-Asia flights with the hideous 2-5-2 are done by 772A ?
45 GSPflyer : PMUA operated both -ER and non-ER variants of the 777-200. PMCO only operates -ER. Now I can't find anything where UA uses the code 77E.
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