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Korean Air To Launch LGW  
User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15092 times:

Korean air will begin ICN-LGW on March 27th (28th from LGW), 2012, using 772.

KE909 ICN-LGW 1840-2250 772 D246
KE910 LGW-ICN 1030-0525+1 772 D357

It will nicely compliment its current daily LHR flight,
KE907 ICN-LHR 1330-1715 747 D
KE908 LHR-ICN 1935-1420+1 747 D

KE recently awarded 3/w flight right and I didn't expect KE will use them for LGW route. Possibly due to slot issue? 2250 arrival seems too tight for the LGW curfew (if it begins at 2300). Congrat for LGW, though !!

Source: Amadeus

[Edited 2011-10-05 08:30:24 by SA7700]

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15016 times:

This is quite unexpected. Apart from LGW itself (AFAIK only VN flies to LGW as an East Asia based carrier), why would KE let the a/c sits in LGW for a whole night? Can they not make the outbound a red eye flight (which is in theory possible given that ICN is open 24 hours a day). I would have thought that a red eye westbound flight would be a nice contrast to the existing daily flight.

Now what would be nice to see in the near future are:
1. BA to launch LHR-ICN using some of their new slots from BD
2. KE or OZ or both to launch A380 services to LHR

congrat to LGW and KE!

[Edited 2011-10-04 22:52:19]

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15003 times:

They served LGW in the 80s early 90's didnt they?

User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3006 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14964 times:
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Now that's what I call a shocker!

I wonder if they have plans to restart EWR as well.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlinebrenintw From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1625 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14927 times:

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 1):
Can they not make the outbound a red eye flight (which is in theory possible given that ICN is open 24 hours a day). I would have thought that a red eye westbound flight would be a nice contrast to the existing daily flight.

Given the time differences involved, it's almost impossible to have a LON-Asia redeye flight. As it is, the LGW-ICN flight arrives at 5 AM, making it a suitable flight for business travelers arriving into ICN.

The LHR flight leaves fairly early in the evening and arrives in the afternoon ...

When I fly back from JNB to TPE, the flight leaves JNB around midday and arrives in HKG at 7 AM. Taking time differences into account, the flight occupies 18+ hours of the day (conversely, going home, the flight occupies barely six hours of the day).



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14897 times:
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Quoting HeeseokKoo (Thread starter):
KE recently awarded 3/w flight right and I didn't expect KE will use them for LGW route. Possibly due to slot issue?

I do find it interesting they aren't flying into LHR. With the flight timing,the added frequency should pay for the slot pair. What am I missing?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14825 times:

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Thread starter):
2250 arrival seems too tight for the LGW curfew (if it begins at 2300). Congrat for LGW, though !!

I have landed in LGW from AMM at 00:15am Scheduled Flight.
Lots of other arrivals at that time, FAO, NAP, AGP, ALC etc....
What time is the Curfew at LGW?

Great new route by the way. The new team at LGW is doing a great job in catching new routes.


User currently offlinegkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24923 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14708 times:

Quoting santos (Reply 6):

No curfew at LGW AFAIK?



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlinemdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14652 times:

Quoting brenintw (Reply 4):
Given the time differences involved, it's almost impossible to have a LON-Asia redeye flight. As it is, the LGW-ICN flight arrives at 5 AM, making it a suitable flight for business travelers arriving into ICN.

I am referring to the westbound,

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Thread starter):

KE909 ICN-LGW 1840-2250 772 D246

I would make it KE909 ICN-LGW 0200-0610 if I can freely choose.

But having thought about it a bit more, maybe this flight as it stands is designed to catch certain flights which arrives into ICN between 1pm and 6pm. Perhaps KE has a wave of arrivals from secondaries cities in China and Japan that would benefit from this? Perhaps their Aussie flights connect into this service as well?


User currently onlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14479 times:

There is no LGW curfew as the slightest glance at arrivals and departured on the website will tell you. I would expect this to operate from LHR as soon as slots become available. Indeed NZ's AKL-HKG-LHR was sold from LGW at first but was never operated from Surrey International as they managed to get LHR slots late in the day.

User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 14253 times:

Great - this flight finally allows you to go SYD-LON without having to spend a night in ICN. Pretty good connections each way now - into LGW and back from LHR.

User currently offlineB747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13928 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 9):

There is no LGW curfew as the slightest glance at arrivals and departured on the website will tell you. I would expect this to operate from LHR as soon as slots become available. Indeed NZ's AKL-HKG-LHR was sold from LGW at first but was never operated from Surrey International as they managed to get LHR slots late in the day.

That would make sense however there are two things that may keep the flight at LGW:

a) 1030 is prime time at LHR - especially for flights to the USA. It may be difficult to obtain a slot here for a reasonable price.

b) The flight spends a lot of time on the ground. Parking costs may be cheaper at LGW. (I would expect the LGW's management were quite keen to get this flight and therefore may have offered significant incentives to choose LGW).

c) The flight times seem odd. There must be a reason for this - which is that they maximise connectivity at ICN. If KE can't get similar flight times from LHR then they may not move the flight because the slots that are available at LHR (and there are some) may not be at suitable time to maintain the connections at ICN. I believe that KE could have quite easily obtained slots at LHR but they would have been at similar times to their current flights.


User currently offlinegilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3011 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13593 times:

Wow, this is pretty awesome news for the airport...

First off we had the announcement of Vietnam Airlines starting services from the airport, then Air Asia X announced they were moving ops to the airport and now Korean Air!

I also remember reading a few months back an all business class airline intends to begin flights from HKG to LGW too, which is due to start sometime next year, using an A330-200.

Would be interesting to see if these sort of routes would have started up, if BAA were still the owners?

Plus they have also managed to attract the like of LH to the airport, offering a feeder service FRA!

Not a bad years work for an airport, like LGW attracting these major carriers, along with the numerous new routes U2 has started from the airport.


User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1406 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13564 times:

This is very unexpected, but wonderful news. I'm not sure it will work with Air Asia and Vietnam offering some very attractive Asia/Australia fares. I would have thought that the A330-200 would have been a better aircraft to launch the route with. One thing is certain, since the new LGW management took over, the whole place is looking a damn sight better, and they seem to be going all out to attract new airline clients with Asia firmly on the map. Next on their hitlist has to be the US.

Regards

Mike


User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 783 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13518 times:

From the Gatwick site...
===============================
Isn’t it against the law to fly at night?

There has never been a night ban at Gatwick. All the aircraft using Gatwick Airport during the night are operated in accordance with the night restrictions set by the Department for Transport (DfT). The DfT imposes restrictions on night flights to preserve a balance between the need to protect local communities from excessive noise and the operation of services where they provide economic benefit. The decision to allow night flights, therefore, is a policy matter for the Government.

What are the noise restrictions for night flights?

The most recent restrictions were introduced in October 2006 and consist of:

a maximum number of flights during each season (11,200 in summer and 3,250 in winter) between 23:30 and 06:00
a supplementary quota system to encourage the use of quieter aircraft. Aircraft types are given a Quota Count (QC) value, according to how much noise they make on landing and take-off. These are: QC 0.25, QC0.5, QC1, QC2, QC4, QC8 and QC16, which is the noisiest category. Aircraft movements score QC values against a maximum allowable quota for each season (6,700 for summer and 2,300 for winter) between 23:30 and 06:00, ‘the night quota period’
aircraft of QC4 cannot be scheduled to operate between 23:30 and 06:00
aircraft of QC16 and QC8 cannot be scheduled to operate between 23:00 and 07:00.


User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13312 times:

Wow this is brilliant news! Well done to GIP for getting all these new airlines in! Wonder who will be next to come to LGW...


3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlineEUFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2011, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12826 times:

I would be guessing that the flight crew who operate from ICN will ovenight at LGW and fly it back the next day to help keep cre costs down.

Great news to have more long haul flights from LGW, how long until an airline decides to cross the pond again?


User currently onlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12173 times:

Quoting EUFlyer (Reply 16):
I would be guessing that the flight crew who operate from ICN will ovenight at LGW and fly it back the next day to help keep cre costs down.

Dear God I hope not !


User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12076 times:

Will this flight operate from North Terminal?


Next Flights: LGW-SVG (738-DY), SVG-LHR (319-BA), LHR-HKG (388-BA), HKG-SYD (333-CX), SYD-HKG (333-CX), HKG-LHR (388-BA)
User currently onlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1783 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11593 times:

Quoting EUFlyer (Reply 16):
I would be guessing that the flight crew who operate from ICN will ovenight at LGW and fly it back the next day to help keep cre costs down.

Great news to have more long haul flights from LGW, how long until an airline decides to cross the pond again?

Less than 12 hours rest after an Asia-Europe sector? I don't think so. Anyone ever heard of Flight time limitations?
Besides, certainly on long haul, nightstopping costs aren't what you expect and if they cause a problem to the profitability of the route then the route is probably on life support anyway. Of course, airlines don't nightstop crew needlessly but when there is a need then so be it.

It takes me back to a thread a while back where posters were thinking of wacky one stop transatlantic routes for LCC's so that they wouldn't have to nightstop crews. If they did it, they'd just take the nightstop costs on in the same way they currently do.....albeit on a limited basis.



Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11327 times:
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Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 11):
The flight times seem odd. There must be a reason for this - which is that they maximise connectivity at ICN.

The flight times didn't seem odd, it is LGW vs. LHR.

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 19):
nightstopping costs aren't what you expect and if they cause a problem to the profitability of the route then the route is probably on life support anyway. Of course, airlines don't nightstop crew needlessly but when there is a need then so be it.

Hotel costs have been known to make routes non-viable versus the competition. While the total costs are only a few thousand a flight... that adds up. We're talking 12 to 16 hotel rooms, per diam, etc.

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 11):
1030 is prime time at LHR

Ahhh...

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 13):
I would have thought that the A330-200

That depends on the cargo. The 77E would have better cargo lift ICN-LGW than the A332. KE is also short on A332s.  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8324 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10956 times:
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This is unique for LGW in these days. They haven't had a flight to Asia in years, since 1991 when LHR opened.

User currently onlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1783 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10881 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 20):
Hotel costs have been known to make routes non-viable versus the competition. While the total costs are only a few thousand a flight... that adds up. We're talking 12 to 16 hotel rooms, per diam, etc.

Not even that. We're probably talking less than a grand.



Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently onlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10834 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):
This is unique for LGW in these days. They haven't had a flight to Asia in years, since 1991 when LHR opened.

They did have Oasis Hong Kong since then. btw Heathrow opened in 1946 not 1991. 1991 was the year the government tore up the 1977 Traffic Distribution Rules for the London airports.

This is not KE serving LGW as a new market, this is clearly an annoying stop gap until they get they're way slotwise at LHR. Enough money has been spent by SkyTeam at T4 to make sure of that.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8060 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 23):
This is not KE serving LGW as a new market,

Does that mean KE did not serve LGW back in the 80's early 90s?

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):
They haven't had a flight to Asia in years, since 1991 when LHR opened.

You mean STN in 1990.


25 TeamInTheSky : I saw the VN advertisement from Gatwick at Tottenham Court Road Tube station last night. Hopefully they will put a KE advertisement up for LGW too. I
26 nickofatlanta : This flight also connects nicely for flights from BNE, MEL, AKL and Nadi (as well as SYD previously mentioned).
27 skipness1E : They did used to fly from LHR before they got into LHR, I mean they are not trying to serve a different part of the London market by serving Gatwick,
28 jet72uk : I don't see why this is such a surprise to everyone. LGW management have said publicly many times that it will attract more carriers in. This is provi
29 Post contains images 777way : LGW you mean thanks for the STN info.
30 skipness1E : You are quite wrong, this is not what LGW have said at all. They realise that any long haul carrier will be off to LHR first chance and so while this
31 A340600 : Much as I am sure there is truth in both sides here, how people speak with such authority on this site is always greatly amusing. Do you have persona
32 skipness1E : Been an enthusiast around these parts for 21 years and I work in the industry and follow it closely. In doing so I point out that a long haul route f
33 jet72uk : Actually skipness1E you are quite wrong as I and A300 have stated the LGW management can lure airlines in. They are not all waiting for LHR slots!
34 skipness1E : Lets list airlines who would choose LGW over LHR given slots? Only SK and MA are legacy short haul at LGW, MA because they needed cash and sold LHR s
35 Ychocky : Wow! Seoul direct to Crawley! Just kidding, very good news for the new owners of Gatwick. Good to see them attract a new carrier.
36 Babybus : Yes they did. I think it was mainly due to the Korean Olympics and then stopped some time after that. I was at LGW for KE's first flight there. I bel
37 jet72uk : LHR is full and with no 3rd runway ever likely to happen, airlines cannot expand there. As I have stated before, the new LGW management are doing a g
38 LGWflyer : Haha yay!!!
39 skipness1E : Airlines have been expanding at LHR since 1991, believe me when bmi goes there'll be slots at a price. Look at all the new airlines since 1991.
40 jet72uk : BTW skipness - LGW is in West Sussex and not Surrey.
41 eljonno : Whoop! I've always said Crawley has an impressively large airport for it's population...
42 LGWflyer : Oh yeah! Busiest single runway airport in the world which is part of my hometown Crawley - population 100,000.
43 mdavies06 : If there is no complete ban on aircraft movements between 2300-0600, then how come LGW doesn't see more movements then they do now? Are all the quotas
44 SKAirbus : The only way Gatwick will ever compete with Heathrow is if they get a second runway and that is unlikely to happen although it is the one airport in t
45 skipness1E : In all honesty if there was demand someone would be making money GIven the choice of travelling at dark o'clock from London's second airport or a civi
46 gabrielchew : Great news from KE. Hopefully, there'll be some good intro fares. I've always been surpised that there isn't an early morning LHR-JFK flight on BA. So
47 alasdair1982 : [quote=HUYfan,reply=13]I'm not sure it will work with Air Asia and Vietnam offering some very attractive Asia/Australia fares./quote] When looking at
48 jet72uk : Skipness1E gets a lot of things wrong in his posts.
49 skipness1E : Happy to debate with you on a point by point basis if you like. What are you adding to the thread? I will honestly tell you why LGW won't be this brav
50 B747-4U3 : Unless I am mistaken, I think Malaysia Airlines did/ were at one point going to operate into Gatwick a couple of times per week during the peak trave
51 Post contains links fcogafa : Vietnam wanted to use LHR but slots were the problem, as per this link... http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/201...lines-big-ambitions/#axzz1a7gFGPUe
52 Post contains links B747-4U3 : But when you look at the flight times they are scheduled to arrive at LGW at 0720 and leave at 1200. This is peak time at LHR, so no wonder they are
53 mandala499 : From a personal meeting with someone from Air Asia group (this is what I am told, I don't know the real facts of course)... they initially thought th
54 LGWflyer : Interesting, thanks for the info. Keep us updated!
55 LJ : Skyteam does have a departure slot around noon (as KL1015/16 is just a slot holder). However, I think they cannot move the departure by 1.5 hours (if
56 TCASAlert : Problem is the return leg. Who wants to takeoff from JFK at 1000 and arrive into LHR at 2245? With checkin at JFK you'd have lost an entire day.
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