Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Current Status Of 717 With WN?  
User currently offlinetsugambler From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 302 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9892 times:

Does anyone know the current status of the 717 with Southwest? Now that the acquisition of AirTran is a done deal, has there been any further word about their plans for the 717? If they are kept in service at least for a while, when can we expect to see them repainted?

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9741 times:

When the FL pilots come to terms with the WN pilots and the company, there might be some more firm plans.

Until then there they can't fly WN routes, so why repaint them? Also WN holds the nuclear option (ie park all the 717s ASAP) in reserve.


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9684 times:

I believe it was announced and discussed on this forum not long ago that the 717s would not be staying in the combined fleet.


I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9521 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 2):
I believe it was announced and discussed on this forum not long ago that the 717s would not be staying in the combined fleet.

I think there's been some supposition based on the terms of the labor deal WN has proposed that they'll be sold in 2015, but nothing firm.

They will be used for a while, as there are too many to be replaced in a short timeframe. I'd be very surprised not to see them repainted, even if the plan is to get rid of them in a few years. If nothing else, WN will paint them just to make their brand more visible at ATL.


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1616 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9225 times:

Quoting tsugambler (Thread starter):
Does anyone know the current status of the 717 with Southwest? Now that the acquisition of AirTran is a done deal, has there been any further word about their plans for the 717? If they are kept in service at least for a while, when can we expect to see them repainted?

Given recent comments from WN (not sure if it was the CEO or CFO), I think it safe to say that the 717s will not be around long term. There was a lot of discussion around the date 2015 and whether they would start phasing them out then or finish phasing them out then. Regardless of the exact time frame, I think it is safe to say the 717s are temporary at the combined WN/FL and the exit date will be determined by the negotions with the lessor and Boeing's ability to get them replacements (if they need them). Also, I think I read that Boeing is the lessor for the 717 fleet and if that is true it simplifies things for WN in terms of negotiating a good exit strategy for 717s whether they want to speed up or slow down the process.

As far as repainting, that is a tough call without knowing whether WN plans to start reducing the 717 fleet immediately or in a few years. I assume WN won't make a firm decision on that until they resolve the pilot contract issue, but if the decision is to keep the entire fleet around at least for the next few years I would expect them to want to get the repainting done A.S.A.P.


User currently offlinefadecfault From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9132 times:

From what I've read about the recent pilot TA the 717's will start conversion in January.

Not sure why most people think the 717's will be gone in the near future. His words were "It's a good airplane, but not one that I see we have to maintain for the next 20 years." How people started getting the idea they will be gone soon I don't know.

And now I saw a recent quote where he stated "“I don’t regret having them,” said Kelly, who was in town for a series of employee events celebrating the airline’s 40th year. “The odds are we will be operate those airplanes for a while.”"

http://blog.chron.com/lorensteffy/20...-phased-out-because-of-fuel-costs/


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6557 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8798 times:

I am curious if WN keep the special liveries on the 717s, move them to the 737, or drop them altogether. What kind of contracts does FL have with the sports teams and Georgia Aquarium?


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1749 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8796 times:

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 3):
I think there's been some supposition based on the terms of the labor deal WN has proposed that they'll be sold in 2015, but nothing firm.

The 717's are leased.


User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1127 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8006 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The 717s probably will be retired as Southwest acquires more 737s that can be used to replace them. This only can be done when Southwest has the authority to combine the operations of AirTran and the pilots of both groups have a combined agreement.   

[Edited 2011-10-07 13:39:43]

User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7012 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7921 times:

Seeing as how there are too many 717's to drop the whole fleet, and there undoubtedly would be financial penalties for doing so, that makes no sense. But the biggest problem I see for WN in keeping them long term is that they can't get any more of them if they wanted to. Therefore I see them being phased out in an orderly process which will take a number of years, probably at least 10.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineflashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2903 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7898 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting fadecfault (Reply 5):
Not sure why most people think the 717's will be gone in the near future. His words were "It's a good airplane, but not one that I see we have to maintain for the next 20 years." How people started getting the idea they will be gone soon I don't know.

Part of the new labor agreement, as I understand it, raises 717 pilot pay to 737 rates. That makes them significantly less attractive to operate overall -- it raises the breakeven point for thin routes and it reduces the potential profit on thick routes compared to operating a 737.


User currently offlineGr8SlvrFlt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1608 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7841 times:

Current plans are to start repainting and installing new interiors in January 2013. Leases expire between 2017 and 2024. I also heard WN has ordered a new 717 training simulator to be installed in Dallas.

User currently offlinetsugambler From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7547 times:

Since there aren't any more 717s to be bought (new), WN will obviously have to retire them eventually... but since there's a lot of life left in the airframes, do you think anyone would try to pick them all up? DL, for example?

User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 665 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7135 times:

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 11):
Current plans are to start repainting and installing new interiors in January 2013. Leases expire between 2017 and 2024. I also heard WN has ordered a new 717 training simulator to be installed in Dallas.

That's interesting.


User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6381 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 7):
The 717's are leased.

Ok so then replace "sold" with "returned to lessor." Doesn't change a damn thing I said so is nitpicking really necessary?

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 9):
Seeing as how there are too many 717's to drop the whole fleet, and there undoubtedly would be financial penalties for doing so, that makes no sense.

Thank you.


User currently offlinefadecfault From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5222 times:

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 10):

no that was the previous TA which was voted down. the new TA had the 717 pilots keeping their current contract until 2015. If the TA is approved the 717 should have a much better CASM than the classic 737's...

also if swa wanted they could remove a lav from the 717 it really doesn't need 3. That with the F class removal would brung the seat count close to 130 (imo)

[Edited 2011-10-07 21:03:22]

User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3603 times:

The current 735/733 fleet (despite 73G commonality) is likely a candidate for retirement in the next 5-10 years also. Combined with the 717 fleet...that would be an aggressive retirement schedule, so I think it's likely either the 733 or the 717 will be around for some time to come (ie, min 7-10 years).


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3590 times:

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 3):
They will be used for a while, as there are too many to be replaced in a short timeframe. I'd be very surprised not to see them repainted, even if the plan is to get rid of them in a few years. If nothing else, WN will paint them just to make their brand more visible at ATL.

Agreed. That was something Delta/NWA and UAL/COA did quite well in their merger, IMO. From the public's eye, it was much easier to digest a single brand so quickly thanks to the quick fleet and system re-branding.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineditzyboy From Australia, joined Feb 2008, 722 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

Quoting fadecfault (Reply 15):
That with the F class removal would brung the seat count close to 130 (imo)

I believe the max certified pax count for the 717 is 125 (HA has 123, JQ had 125 at 30-31"). Don't forget that WN's pitch is over 32", while FL's is closer to 30" in Y.

The Galley 2 unit could be reduced (length-wise) to accommodate only half carts, in addition to removing a lavatory, in an effort to increase space for seating.


User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1459 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

Quoting ditzyboy (Reply 18):
I believe the max certified pax count for the 717 is 125

It can go as high as 134 with some special certification requirements per the TCDS.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7012 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

Quoting flashmeister (Reply 10):
Part of the new labor agreement, as I understand it, raises 717 pilot pay to 737 rates.

Frankly, I can't see that this will be that big a factor. When you figure that the plane is burning hundreds of gallons of fuel an hour at at least $2.50 a gallon I can't see that a few dollars more per pilot is going to make that much difference. Yes, all airlines are operating on very slim margins and have to watch all costs, but I cannot see this as making that much difference. Even 717 pilots get well paid.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3424 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 2):
I believe it was announced and discussed on this forum not long ago that the 717s would not be staying in the combined fleet.

They said "long term" it has no future. The age of the airframes alone prevents that. What wasn't said is if they will use them till the end of thier lifetime or sometime sooner.


User currently offlinefadecfault From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 20):

The difference can be almost $100/hr between LUV and FL flight crew pay (ca+fo).
That works out to ten's of millions in savings over a year.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Current Status Of Asiana 744 Combis posted Tue Nov 11 2008 16:06:48 by 767ER
Current Status Of TBS (Tbilisi)? posted Thu Aug 14 2008 12:04:19 by Csavel
Current Status Of Air India B747 VT-AIM posted Sun Apr 20 2008 17:59:13 by Psimpson
Current Status Of EOS posted Thu Apr 10 2008 23:34:01 by SevenHeavy
Current Status Of PHC Airport posted Wed Mar 5 2008 03:53:57 by DALCE
Current Status Of CO 752 PTV Upgrade? posted Tue Dec 4 2007 20:50:16 by AA737-823
Questions About Current Status Of Air Zimbabwe posted Wed Dec 20 2006 02:59:15 by Planenutz
Category Status Of Countries With The FAA posted Wed Dec 13 2006 00:50:24 by Airevents
Current Status Of Airports In The UK? posted Thu Aug 10 2006 10:25:11 by BHXDTW
Current Status Of Former TG MD-11's? posted Sun Jul 2 2006 22:57:12 by Warreng24