SEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7364 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8500 times:
I suspect that most of them will be getting on-I don't think Pan Am hired very many in the later years. Robert Gandt (author of "Skygods") wrote that when one of the sales of Pan Am routes went through (I believe it was the ones Delta bought) that the seniority was resolved by arbitration, and the Pan Am pilots got royally screwed, because the arbitrator decided on the basis of what their expectations would have been had they remained with Pan Am. Robert Gandt himself was hired as a copilot in the late 60's, and I believe he remained a copilot for his entire time with Pan Am, only becoming captain after he went with United after United bought the Pacific routes. This indicates that Pan Am hired very few pilots after the 60's, and while the 747's only required 2 pilots and a FE, just like the 707's, they did require more FA's. But I still doubt that hiring was very active.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8985 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8435 times:
Delta has many ex-Pan AM FA, more then UA, since they took over the biggest chunk of PA. Since its been 20 years some have retired, however while many would like to retire they probably as a group can't afford to retire. When PA went under their pensions went to the PBGC and after DL went Chapter 11 their Delta pensin's got shredded again. Many have to work well into their 60's.
I know a French lady based in NYC with Delta now who started with Pan Am in 1964, and a Swede who started in 1965, with whom I just flew last week. Many of them have either retired now or taken the packages, but there are still quite a few around at Delta, in both NYC and ATL. Many of the more senior Pan Amers left at Delta are 1970s hires.
When Delta took over, they did cut the Pan Am FAs' bidding seniority so as to protect some of the Delta FAs (since PA was going to have more senior FAs than DL). DL protected their first 3000 FAs, and then slot in one Pan Am FA for every 3 DL FAs. As a result, most of the very senior Pan Am FAs who went over lost about half of their bidding seniority (e.g., a 1965 PA hire had about 26 years by 1991 when DL took over, but got 'credit' for about 13 years. Together with the 20 years since DL took over, the 1965 hire today in 2011, has only 33 years seniority, even though she has been flying for 46 years. The younger PA FAs who went over to Delta lost less (they had less to lose given their years with PA) however.
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3): I don't think Pan Am hired very many in the later years.
Pan Am did hire a few hundred new FAs in 1988 when they started expanding their MIA ops. Some of them, usually with foreign language qualifications (which was DL's top priority when taking over Pan Am's ops in 1991), made it over to Delta and are still flying today.
jamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1047 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 8366 times:
Quoting SEPilot (Reply 3): This indicates that Pan Am hired very few pilots after the 60's, and while the 747's only required 2 pilots and a FE, just like the 707's, they did require more FA's. But I still doubt that hiring was very active.
Pan Am hired F/A's into the late 1980's. In addition to the ones that came over with the Pacific route purchase in 1986 and the LHR acquisition in 1990/91, UA has a number of former Pan Am F/A's that were hired after the carrier's demise in 1991. I've met several who flew for PA for only a few years...from '88/'89 to 1991. Most in that group group have a United seniority date of 1992.
747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3999 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8253 times:
My cousin was a F/A for Pan Am # 1, sadly we lost contact with her after Pan Am went bankrupt. She should be in her 40's now, so that shows that Pan Am was still hiring in the late 80's/ early 90's, because she would had to be in her 20's back in that time, and kid in the 70's.
1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7236 times:
Quoting panamair (Reply 5): Pan Am did hire a few hundred new FAs in 1988 when they started expanding their MIA ops. Some of them, usually with foreign language qualifications (which was DL's top priority when taking over Pan Am's ops in 1991), made it over to Delta and are still flying today
Pan Am were still hiring, one of the flight attendants killed at Lockerbie had only been working at Pan Am for about six months before her tragic death.
A number of other FAs were hired for bases in places like Warsaw, Delhi, Belgrade and Istanbul around the same time, I think the Warsaw based FAs did end up at Delta at JFK.
Jackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7177 times:
Does the whole "Pan Am" image of immaculately groomed, sophisticated women carry on to the FAs who are with DL, UA etc now, or do they now just do the job and leave the old days requirements to just that, the old days?
That's true - ALL airlines had the same high standards at the time, though Pan Am's "Stewardesses" from multiple different countries and the pre requisites of a second language and college education may (or may not) have led to some added difference?
In the 1960s Pan Am only had male pursers, I suppose with the introduction of the 747 they moved towards male FAs
EASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7005 times:
When I stationed to ORD in the mid 70's my office was next to the inflight offices. There was a Personal Appearance supervisor who had to check every F/A before they left on trips. She was herself a Vogue Model from the 50's and was quite attractive. She checked to be sure hair was neat, makeup was proper, shoes were shinned, and finger nails were polished. Then they had to hop onto the scale and had to meet company standards. If not, they were sent home-period!
Then there was a law suit, and all that had to stop among all the airlines. It was about the time men could be hired as a F/A. For the most part, the F/As up until this time had a professional and kept up the standards during their career. Managements concern was that some F/As ballooned out and had a difficult time getting down the asile. Especially the DC-9. TFTF sadly disappeard. (TOO FAT TO FLY)
canoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2862 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6934 times:
Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 16): She was herself a Vogue Model from the 50's and was quite attractive. She checked to be sure hair was neat, makeup was proper, shoes were shinned, and finger nails were polished.
She probably is still employed with an airline like Eva Air. The most immaculate crews I've ever seen during the 90's and early 00's when I worked at the airport were from the Far East.
I knew a DL FA that was pretty high up on the seniority list in the early part of the last decade based out of JFK that started her career at Pan Am. She almost exclusively flew JFK-IST, commuted out of SEA and used to bring us back baklava if we'd get her a decent seat commuting to JFK.
I always find this interesting. One of the FO I know she flew with used to get that trip, and he had only a couple years with DL, commuted frequently at the same time she did. Seemed like a cat fight for FA's to get decent bids internationally.
F9Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 704 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 6893 times:
Quoting luckyone (Reply 17): How did Pan Am having stewardesses based behind the Iron Curtain or other socialist/communist countries work?
They discussed this a couple weeks ago when "Pan Am" started airing. The KGB was very suspicious of PA FAs, which was normal. The CIA actually recruited a few PA FAs, and a few "disappeared" with no one knowing what happened to them.
EASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6578 times:
The PA supervisor I described was from an era 90% of net people have no idea. After WW2 the fashion houses of Paris shot back to a glorious time. (Google high fashion 1950s). The F/As of that time were looked on as a highly professional carrer. Remember, passengers were not the bus trade. It cost alot of money to fly. A very small number of Americans went overseas. Many airlines like SAS grounded F/As at a certain age and assigned them ground jobs. F/As were not considered waitresses, they were given great respect ............Once again, the glory days of flight was in the twilight...
Please don't bust me for this.... it was what it was!
delta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 642 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5442 times:
Things were stricter then. My mother went to an interview at North Central in 1960 and she said the recruiter told her she didn't qualify because she had dyed her hair. You also couldn't have visible scars at that time.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 7255 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5421 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13): That was just an image. I flew Pan Am frequently in the 70s and 80s and never noticed any signficant difference between their cabin crews and those of other major carriers. And they weren't all women.
I saw PA crew once at Karachi Airport, they were very ordinary with typical generic dark blue uniforms and interestingly most of the female crew were black, this was late 1980s.
: Wow, how did you remember her 30 years later?! What routes is she flying these days? Didn't realize Pan Am was still flying to Karachi in the late 80
: She was flying ATL - SLC last year. I had noticed that she was was wearing a Pan Am lapel pin so I asked here if she knew Amy Bratt (a quite well kno
: Remember that Pan Am used to have a FA base in TXL for their IGS. About 300 FA's were based there - mostly German nationals, but also Americans and ot