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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 103  
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2687 posts, RR: 4
Posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12848 times:

Well thread 102 is nearing 300 posts so it's about time for a new one. Bare with me - let's hope this works...

New Zealand Aviation Thread #102 (by cchan Sep 13 2011 in Civil Aviation)

In 102 we discussed:
- Expansion of Seats-to-Suit to Perth and potentially other routes
- Seating issues on Seats-to-Suit
- NZ's new website, online checkin and seat selection functionality
- Movements as a result of the Rugby world Cup (RWC)
- Merits of the RWC for New Zealand
- Immigration issues at AKL
- Jetstar's new WLG-ZQN service
- Potential equipment changes over summer for overseas carriers serving New Zealand
- NZ's increased stake in Virgin Australia
- NZ upgrading HNL flights to 772s
- Further 789 delays
- Air Asia flights into CHC
- Potential new CEO for NZ

Righto, so let's hope 103 can now kick off...

201 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 12845 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Thread starter):
Bare with me - let's hope this works...

It does. Thank you.

Quoting aerokiwi (Thread starter):
Further 789 delays

I haven't been following the 787 development recently. Is the 789 still a plane on paper, or has Boeing made some progress to make this a reality?


User currently offlinezkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1675 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12647 times:

'' haven't been following the 787 development recently. Is the 789 still a plane on paper, or has Boeing made some progress to make this a reality?''

Think a lot of people including NZ could ask the same, lets hope for there sake they have made some progress - lets just get the bird made and flown and earning some cash.

is the 744 still going back on the Japan routes soon or is this one area that is getting ''shaffted''



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently onlinejupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 890 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 12616 times:

Noticed a lot of extra capacity of NZ to SYD today, purely Irish and English supporters heading home after their dismal showings on the weekend ??

User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 12568 times:

Quoting zkojh (Reply 2):
Think a lot of people including NZ could ask the same, lets hope for there sake they have made some progress - lets just get the bird made and flown and earning some cash.

Or Boeing should have let the airlines know earlier about the delays so they can make alternative arrangements.

Quoting zkojh (Reply 2):
is the 744 still going back on the Japan routes soon or is this one area that is getting ''shaffted''

772 instead for AKL-NRT, according to the schedule on NZ's website.

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 3):
Noticed a lot of extra capacity of NZ to SYD today, purely Irish and English supporters heading home after their dismal showings on the weekend ??

South Africa vs Australia last Sunday evening. The flights probably take some of the Aus supporters home, the quickest way to get to South Africa is also via SYD.


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3186 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12558 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 4):
Or Boeing should have let the airlines know earlier about the delays so they can make alternative arrangements.

No doubt Boeing's concern was the alternative involving a product from Toulouse.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 282 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 12530 times:

Not sure how aircraft parking works at Heathrow but on Oct 26th, Air NZ will have 3 different widebodies on the ground.
NZ001 departing @ 1600 with 773
NZ003 departing @ 1730 with 744
NZ038 departing @ 2105 with 772

Be nice to see all three lined up next to each other at LHR.


User currently offlinejasewgtn From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 12491 times:

I see Jetstar have pulled out of AKL-CNS.

We had direct flights booked for December and they rang last night re-routing us via MEL on the way there (overnight at our own expense) and a 4 hours transit it in SYD on the way home.

Poor loadings obviously ?


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2687 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 12391 times:

Quoting jasewgtn (Reply 7):
Poor loadings obviously ?

And Pac Blue's once-weekly is ending in November or December too.


User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 282 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 12369 times:

Quoting jasewgtn (Reply 7):
see Jetstar have pulled out of AKL-CNS.

We had direct flights booked for December and they rang last night re-routing us via MEL on the way there (overnight at our own expense) and a 4 hours transit it in SYD on the way home.

Poor loadings obviously ?
Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 8):
And Pac Blue's once-weekly is ending in November or December too.

Air NZ is maintaining 4 weekly A320 AKL-CNS services until April 2012 on days 1,3,5,7 and then adds a 5th flight in April to operate days 2,3,5,6,7 with A320


User currently offlinedlnz From New Zealand, joined Jul 2011, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12326 times:

Quoting jasewgtn (Reply 7):
We had direct flights booked for December and they rang last night re-routing us via MEL on the way there (overnight at our own expense) and a 4 hours transit it in SYD on the way home.

What a delightful airline   Despite being an LCC I am surprised that they are not providing accommodation in MEL for the overnight (STPC as we call it in the trade). Perhaps it's worth a call to them, as my understanding is that airlines are bound to provide suitable connections and/or accommodation in cases of involuntary re-routing/sched changes.

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 9):
Air NZ is maintaining 4 weekly A320 AKL-CNS services until April 2012 on days 1,3,5,7 and then adds a 5th flight in April to operate days 2,3,5,6,7 with A320

Certainly a market which NZ has firmly sewn up and a prime candidate for the new 'sharklet' equipped A320s for range/payload considerations. Personally I would love to see better connections with CO's CNS-GUM services.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12308 times:
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Quoting dlnz (Reply 10):
Personally I would love to see better connections with CO's CNS-GUM services.

I'm a wee bitty scratching my head as to how many Kiwis go to Guam - and why they would.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinedlnz From New Zealand, joined Jul 2011, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12298 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
I'm a wee bitty scratching my head as to how many Kiwis go to Guam - and why they would

Very few I would imagine, however New Zealand originating traffic is only half the story. A lot less than half for many carriers operating to this part of the world.

As I said above it is a destination which I am interested in personally, as it's a bit off the beaten track. I like that.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 12294 times:
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Quoting dlnz (Reply 12):
As I said above it is a destination which I am interested in personally, as it's a bit off the beaten track. I like that.

That's what I thought, so I went there. No offense to anyone, but it is not my favourite of the Pacific islands, north or south.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12279 times:

Quoting dlnz (Reply 10):
Certainly a market which NZ has firmly sewn up and a prime candidate for the new 'sharklet' equipped A320s for range/payload considerations.

AKL (37°00'29"S 174°47'30"E) CNS (16°53'09"S 145°45'19"E) 300.2° (NW) 2249 mi
AKL (37°00'29"S 174°47'30"E) PPT (17°33'24"S 149°36'41"W) 68.0° (E) 2544 mi

Even better than sharklets would be NEOs. I looked at AKL-PPT which is about 300 miles longer than AKL-CNS. AKL-PPT seems at bit at the end of the range for a current A320, but I think an A320 NEO would do it quite well. I wonder if there are other routes out of NZ where the range of a NEO would make them possible.


User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 282 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12274 times:

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 14):
Even better than sharklets would be NEOs. I looked at AKL-PPT which is about 300 miles longer than AKL-CNS. AKL-PPT seems at bit at the end of the range for a current A320, but I think an A320 NEO would do it quite well. I wonder if there are other routes out of NZ where the range of a NEO would make them possible.

The AKL-CNS with A320 does operate with some payload penalties.
AKL-CNS restricted by 15 pax while CNS-AKL rstricted by 8 pax.
Not too bad. Does not really affect freight as AKL-CNS is not a major market


User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12257 times:

AKL-CNS is one route where a 738 might have a better payload over this distance. This could be one route where Virgin could operate on behalf of the JV.

Would payload have influenced JQ's decision? AKL-CNS maybe a market that does not interest Qantas, but their 738s could do the distance as well.


User currently offlineTravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12253 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
how many Kiwis go to Guam - and why they would.

Sorry to be macabre, but there was that Kiwi helicopter pilot who survived the Korean Air 747 crash at Agana.

Isn't GUM to NZL served better via Air Mike's NAN service anyway?



What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12248 times:
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Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 17):
Sorry to be macabre, but there was that Kiwi helicopter pilot who survived the Korean Air 747 crash at Agana.

There are a a few Kiwis there and Steinlager was a very popular beer then. But as a tourist given a choice of islands, I wouldn't pick Guam.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 12203 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
There are a a few Kiwis there and Steinlager was a very popular beer then. But as a tourist given a choice of islands, I wouldn't pick Guam.

Especially when there are a number of island destinations closer, better and cheaper to get to.


User currently offlinedarenw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12172 times:

For those of you who haven't seen this on another thread.
Makes for some interesting reading especially on the 787-9

http://www.aspireaviation.com/blog/


User currently offlineZKEOJ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2005, 1008 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12145 times:

Quoting dlnz (Reply 10):
Personally I would love to see better connections with CO's CNS-GUM services.

me too - would be a dream  
Quoting mariner (Reply 11):
I'm a wee bitty scratching my head as to how many Kiwis go to Guam - and why they would.

All the a-nuttersd like us - isn't that worth maintaining a service?   I agree it is probably not viable, but just like dlnz, it is just dreamwork... 

Cheers
micha


User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 862 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12126 times:

Can someone please advise where the most legroom is to be had on Y+ on the 77W? Cheers.

User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 12119 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air...Air_New_Zealand_Boeing_777-300.php

http://www.airnewzealand.com/seat-map-boeing-777-300

From these maps, it doesn't look like any of the Y+ have more or less room than any other.


User currently offlineTravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12087 times:

I must say that Jetstar impressed me today. I lost my wallet and I only realised this after check-in. Despite the hassles my off-load process was going to cause, they handled it with a smile and rebooked me on to the next flight free of charge, despite the non-changeable fare category rules. My wallet turned up, thankfully, and I got the ladies who helped me some chocolates to show my appreciation.

I know JQ gets a lot of flack, but for me they have fundamentally altered the value proposition for airline travel. My perceptions of JQ are based on flying 50+ sectors on them. I've found they still get me from from A to B with a degree of punctuality that is not better or worse than others. The thing I really value about flying is the view from the window seat and the thrill of take off. I've discovered that the world looks just as marvellous whether its through full-service or LCC perspex.

I've flown over 1 million miles on all continents, so I am also an expereinced air traveller. It scares me to think that I've averaged one flight sector for every week I've been on the planet. However, a curious thing has happend recently. Increasingly I've found myself benchmarking my short haul flights against the train experience rather than another airline.

I'm wondering if anyone else experienced a similar shift in the way they view air travel? If yes, what does it mean?



What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
25 cchan : In New Zealand, within island, a standard bus or train fare is comparable to a discounted domestic airfare, and most road journeys are same day. This
26 koruman : GUM-CNS is a route for Japanese tourists from multiple cities. It could actually work to drop ALL Japan-NZ direct flights, and to pick up Japanese vi
27 aerorobnz : Why, when Japan flights are still some of the most profitable on the network??.... I too though Japan wasn't doing well, but it is right up there for
28 gasman : Yes I know, but I seem to remember someone saying that the middle bulkead seats have significantly more legroom due to the angle enabling you to stre
29 Post contains links mariner : It's a way to do it, but I have difficulty thinking it's a huge market - is it even daily most of the year? It's my understanding that most of the tr
30 aerorobnz : not really so much after the refit (which is so much better). The front row is the one you are after....
31 koruman : Could there be a niche for two-centre NZ + Great Barrier Reef packages?
32 zkojh : 'JetStar Cuts 2 Trans-Tasman Routes & Reduce Brisbane – Christchurch in NW11' looks like chops all round. JetStar Airways in Northern Winter 201
33 Post contains images mariner : That exists already. Anyone can fly GUM-CNS and CNS-AKL. It may not be a great connection, but why would they want that and it's all Star Alliance. A
34 aerorobnz : love the Philippines . Would love NZ to fly there, maybe second only to AKL-GRU-GIG in the fantasy stakes. I think AKL-MNL-HKG 3x a week with a 763 w
35 cchan : Philippines is a great place, but MNL airport is a disgrace, especially the old terminal 1. The problem with this routing is that MNL-HKG will be alm
36 jasewgtn : Or to throw a wee curve ball, AKL - POM - MNL QF/DJ pick up a lot of high $$ traffic between NZ/POM
37 nascarnut : That was how Air NZ got back into HKG. They started a 3-way code-share with Air Nuigini and Cathay to operate AKL-POM-HKG with each airline operating
38 mariner : I think there's some gold to be mined in PNG, but probably from CNS or BNE. I'm surprised there is no service BNE-LAE - it's the second largest city
39 aerorobnz : I guess there is no reason it couldn't be AKL-HKG-MNL-AKL on NZ81 days. I do think that it has to be aligned with the Asian market rather than the Au
40 JMM99 : How can NZ do 4 x CNS/AKL weekly & JQ can't manage to hang in there ? Presume some of NZ services connect to HNL, YVR, LAX &/or SFO or island
41 aviasian : I have two questions for the experts here on NZ aviation. Q1 Which was the very first destination that Air New Zealand operated its DC-10-30s to and o
42 gasman : Feb 3rd 1973, AKL-SYD There is always chance, but no talk. On this route NZ struggled to compete with SQ who are currently operating twice daily 777
43 NZ1 : I can tell you for a fact that there will be no return to SIN in the medium to long term. NZ1
44 aviasian : Kia'ora and thanks gasman and NZ1, appreciate your replies and knowledge. A pity that ANZ is unlikely to return anytime soon ... it was an airline wit
45 Post contains links PA515 : ZK-OKP may be on the flightline. There's an unpainted 300(ER) with white rudder and the rudder trim outlined in turquoise? next to BG's second 300(ER)
46 joelyboy911 : My suspicion would be that they will leave SIN to SQ and QF+JQ - no point trying to impinge on two carriers hubbing there with flights from the regio
47 koruman : Because they serve completely different markets. The inbound market from NZ to Cairns is the same. But the outbound market on Jetstar was purely VFR
48 nzrich : The CNS and ZQN cancelations do not surprise me but CHC - BNE does there is a big market between the two cities albeit not a business market but visi
49 aerorobnz : fingers crossed that if if it is painted up in the black rugby livery it is only a 'one off' as opposed to a full change.
50 Taieridrome : Back in April I flew SQ out of CHC to CDG via SIN. Just an opinion of course but thought the 777 being used on the CHC to SIN and SIN to CHC legs were
51 ZKSUJ : Aparantly AKL is the same. They have been using the 773 not 77W on a few occasions with the older i teriors and AFAIK the 282/281 service has a older
52 CHCalfonzo : Hasn't been reported but looking at the Qantas website shows they have increased CHC-OOL to 4pw from the current 2pw in lieu of CHC-BNE. Still a loss
53 aerorobnz : 9V-SVN is often the aircraft on SQ282. It is the new interior
54 JMM99 : but surely JQ could have worked their CNS/AKL flights to coordinate with QF's AKL/LAX ? QF's AKL/LAX will probably become JQ before long anyway. On t
55 Post contains links mariner : There's some stuff here about the 787 and Air NZ's plans. I don't think the talk of further delays to the 789 is new, but Mr Fyfe is starting to sound
56 cchan : Is there any chance NZ would cancel the 789 and get some new 763/764 and 77L instead?
57 aerorobnz : Exactly. NZ must shoulder a chunk of the blame themselves. Managing a company is all about maintaining control of things, even when it isn't going yo
58 alangirvan : How do you know Toulouse will be problem free with their projects? With the A350 and B787 aircraft, Airbus and Boeing are doing the Star Trek thing,
59 NZ107 : My bet would be that the new LCC which SQ is creating will eventually replace the SQ flight to CHC. I haven't seen a 773 in AKL for a little while..
60 mariner : The A330 is known and proven aircraft. mariner
61 aerorobnz : I think was a stopgap while SQ rejigged their fleet to accommodate the new 77W route BCN-GRU, refitted some older interiors, changed gauge on other r
62 motorhussy : The A332 is the right size aircraft for NZ as a 763 replacement and fits as a craft smaller than the 77W (the 77E is often too large now). It has the
63 motorhussy : Adding to my previous post, the A333 would be perfect for routes like NRT, PEK and PVG... so a sub-fleet of them too. Replace these with the 787 or A3
64 mariner : I agree and I am scratching my head about this. The voiced fear by Mr. Fyfe is: "Fyfe said that some possible new routes for Air New Zealand are only
65 zkncj : They got there first A330s so fast because they are secondhand and leased from EK
66 mariner : That was my point. If, as Mr. Fyfe says, aircraft are needed, why sit around waiting for new? mariner
67 cchan : Considering the cost of adding a new 332 fleet, would extra 777s or 767s be more economical, even if they are too large or don't have the range for s
68 dlnz : The A332 with Trent engines is a fabulous aircraft and one of my personal favourites. I agree that 5 years ago an order for a small fleet of them wou
69 Post contains links mariner : I'm not sure where else north and east of LAX-SFO Air NZ would want to fly them. I am assuming that the 789's will arrive at some point - the problem
70 dlnz : Like you I don't believe they will operate A330s anywhere, of any variety, period. My comment was in response to: Which based on my observations of A
71 NZ2 : koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 2142 posts, RR: 5 Reply 211, posted Wed Oct 5 2011 14:42:44 your local time (1 week 1 day 19 hours 16 minutes
72 haggis73 : From an email I got last week, at this stage due to arrive 10th Nov 0540LT direct from Seattle.[Edited 2011-10-13 15:05:58]
73 A330NZ : I too am a fan of the A330, and I'd love to see NZ operate it, but like you said later on, I don't believe they'll will operate. The 77L looks like m
74 zkojh : lots of people have been saying for ages that they need a back-up plan, and by the sounds of it they still don't have one! just pull all long haul rou
75 aerorobnz : It's a very 'New Zealand' way of running a business. It certainly wouldn't cut it in Asia, USA or Europe. They'd be buried by now by competitors aggr
76 SCL767 : Using the B77Ws between AKL and GRU would require NZ to fly on a Northward routing which will increase the flying time by a couple of hours. Brazilia
77 SunriseValley : Not so. Under the rules of the NZL regulator the 77W 's will have an 330-min. diversion status from sometime in 2012. I believe the 772's qualify for
78 koruman : I would go much further than that. Brazil is booming and in June-July 2014 there will be enormous demand from not just Australia and New Zealand but
79 SCL767 : That's great since TAM has 10 more B77Ws on order and is interested in operating to the Far East from Brazil, possibly via AKL.
80 Post contains links mariner : Sadly, I'm inclined to agree with you. It is tough for me to imagine Mr. Clark of Emirates or, notoriously, CEO al-Baker of Qatar taking this extraor
81 Post contains links darenw : Exactly, I think Air NZ have really missed the boat here. Seems like they have a plan A but no plan B http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...07/22/aw
82 koruman : I don't put it down to inertia or fecklessness. I think that Fyfe realised at the start of the global financial crisis that the airline's financial s
83 mariner : In that respect that that he was exactly right. No one knew - no one could know - the depth or duration of the GFC, and especially the continuing cri
84 SunriseValley : The 233t version of the A333 with a 280 passenger only load is good for 5700nm or about 12 hrs sector length. Not good enough for many of the Pacific
85 Post contains links mariner : Then Korean Airlines has surely been misled because they believe the A32HGW is capable of 7200nm. See post #69 for the link. There's a thread about i
86 cchan : Would AKL-RAR-GRU work? The Cook Islands government is keen for any new routes, so rights shouldn't be a problem.
87 joelyboy911 : Could a 767 do that, or would it still need 777's range? AND Could RAR handle an incoming AKL-RAR-GRU and an SYD-RAR at the same time, so they could
88 aerorobnz : NZ can operate EDTO240 currently having operated under ETOPS/EDTO restrictions for the best part of 25 years. Yes, that is for NZ operated 77Ws on ro
89 timb777 : The A330-200HGW has much better range than any version of the A330-300. Thus, the 332HGW can do 7000nm while the 333 cannot. I think mariner is refer
90 koruman : The mistake to which I was referring was not opening long-haul from BNE and MEL. If you assume that 20% of Trans-Pacific pax are terminating in Austra
91 Post contains images mariner : Ah, well, maybe. In that case, I think the only disagreement between us might be the destinations. mariner
92 A330NZ : Completely off topic here, I was booking a flight for a family frend who wanted to go to Denmark with a few days in Shanghai. I put them on NZ and SK.
93 aerorobnz : For New Zealand it would only be a bad thing. Flights would be reduced, fares would go up and many aircraft would not remain in NZ. Whenever a big so
94 SunriseValley : no doubt. I was not disputing the performance of the A332HGW rather some earlier assertions on what the A333 could do. I should not have mixed the di
95 SunriseValley : In the absence of a comprehensive ICAO standard I would expect the NZL. regulator would require a close equivalent to their standard from TAM or any
96 Post contains images HLZCPH : We go back and forth to Denmark quite often and have gone via Shanghai the last couple of trips. I would suggest pricing using LX or LH via ZRH or FR
97 aerorobnz : It's important to remember that minimum of EDTO120 applies to every international flight from AKL, and has done since the twins first arrived in the
98 zkojh : Another option NZ could think of is to take the options on the extra 2 77W's weather you would still get theses in 2012 is a ?? Keep 4 x 744's instead
99 SunriseValley : An interesting topic! If I am understanding what you say, a carrier must have demonstrated experience at EDTO/ETOPS- 180 to be eligible to move beyon
100 cchan : If my understanding is correct, the 2x 744 leaving next year have leases expiring. Considering their current usage, renewing the leases may not be th
101 timb777 : Considering the number of 744's sitting around doing nothing, its not so much a case of having a lack of aircraft capacity, but rather a lack of suit
102 cchan : Perhaps having the 744s sit on the ground in AKL would save maintenance cost. If they are close to the amount of usage that requires a major maintena
103 aerorobnz : 180 is the default for longhaul aircraft, so provided they maintain factory maintenance checks and SOPS it isn't much of a problem for them to gain a
104 SunriseValley : It is difficult to be an armchair CEO without having more detail on what these new "long thin" routes are. Three have been bandied about ; AKL- GRU/B
105 aerorobnz : correct. Leasing companies require the airlines to return aircraft having performed big costly checks themselves. When this is the scenario, low util
106 timb777 : I see your point, but on that logic the aircraft should have been leased for 14 years and not 15 for example, it does not justify leasing something a
107 cchan : Apparently that maintenance cost is huge. As mentioned in one of the previous threads, the 744 (-SUH?) was purchased by NZ because it costs more in m
108 NZ1 : NBT and NBU are the two aircraft returning next year, and are also the last of the RR powered aircraft. Of the eight engines on these two aircraft, I
109 Zkpilot : Worth effectively retiring one of NBU/NBT and keeping the other operating with the 8 engines?
110 cchan : Thanks for the info. Probably that would involve fitting the tired engines all on one aircraft and fit the 4 with fewer cycles on the operating frame
111 timb777 : Ok, so there is clearly a benefit from them sitting them idle. I would question whether these 'millions' saved really outweighs the opportunity cost
112 cchan : Nowhere to send them could well be the reason. Considering that purchasing -SUH is cheaper than carrying out the end of lease maintenance, I wouldn't
113 ZK-NBT : Hmm, I'd more likely see NZ freeing up 772s by dropping routes like HKG-LHR and maybe running 763s to Japan year round with the freed up 772s allowing
114 cchan : I would like to see the 2x 744s retire quicker (they look tired from the outside), but instead of dropping HKG-LHR, I would prefer NZ to confirm the
115 aerorobnz : This isn't to do with aircraft types, it's about making money. It is not a cheap flight to operate and if it isn't making money then it should be cut
116 ZKSUJ : Any chance of additional capacity on NOU-AKL this week for the final? i presume demand would be there seeing as they put the 763s on the route for the
117 SunriseValley : Rob, Typically how many pallets do NZ load into NZ2 each day?
118 cchan : No, aircraft type is irreverent, I was referring to an earlier post which suggested cutting HKG-LHR to free up some 772 capacity. If I remember corre
119 xiaotung : NZ has only openly said that they were interested in extending PVG flights to Europe. I assume this is still the plan? I also assume by doing that th
120 koruman : I disagree. I thought at the time that it made more sense to either extend SFO to LHR or NZ5/6 from LAX to MAN. But the logic behind HKG-LHR made a s
121 Post contains links zkncj : Here is a video of ZK-OJR making its first landing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTPFDmSLMDg Looks like its going to be the new livery, notice it doe
122 koruman : They have said that in the past, but I believe that it would be a high risk strategy. The argument against extending the SFO flight to Europe is that
123 joelyboy911 : I will be very disappointed if any new fleet-wide colourscheme doesn't have the current colours incorporated. That would be a serious "up yours" to t
124 mariner : You've got it. I've said my piece about this before, and to you and I really surprised you would voice it again. I find it extremely depressing that
125 alangirvan : looking at another thread on a.net, we see that Emirates may have five A380s operating every day between Dubai and London. If they will be operating t
126 zkojh : Well if NZ do get there ass into gear and come to MAN they best hurry up, HKG is already going be served next year and also PEK will have a connection
127 aerorobnz : Depends on the season due produce and AVI animals. but it is regular to have the whole of one hold filled with cargo, and a couple of pallets in the
128 Post contains links zkojh : ''More Kiwis discover sophisticated, exciting, affordable China'' it seems that this is some good reading; Air New Zealand is marking five years of fl
129 Post contains links zkojh : seems ANZ are doing something right on the home front then; ''Air New Zealand leads for Domestic Airline Satisfaction'' Roy Morgan Research is now rel
130 joelyboy911 : This phrase is a tad misleading. I read it wrongly first time around. There is 3x weekly on one and 4x weekly on the other beginning in December. Cer
131 cchan : Didn't CA operated into AKL briefly before NZ did? Considering the service quality of NZ's only domestic competitor, I wouldn't be surprised.
132 TravellerPlus : How can an airline that no longer flies domestically in New Zealand appear on satisfaction lists for domestic flights made in the past 3 months? Sorr
133 xiaotung : These were tag on flights from Australia. In terms of direct New Zealand-China flights, NZ were the first.
134 SXI899 : On the photos I've seen, it does have the "Crazy About Rugby" text (which can also just be seen on the video). I still think the black livery would m
135 NZ1 : The "Crazy About Rugby" text is just below the windows. NZ1
136 Post contains images timb777 : Maybe they were satisfied that they no longer had to fly DJ and their bookings were transferred to NZ!! . Personally, I'm sad that pacific blue has l
137 joelyboy911 : I also notice they haven't painted the engine cowlings black on -OJR. Just an interesting observation.
138 777ER : So theres going to be two A320s painted in the 'crazy about rugby' scheme?
139 TravellerPlus : LOL. Too true! It reminds me of the joke going around towards the end of Kiwi Air's nuts and cola service era when it was being plagued by mechanical
140 NZ6 : Stay tuned for an announcement tomorrow regarding something very interesting.
141 Post contains links and images aerorobnz : Looks to be a blue tail under the masking....
142 TravellerPlus : I'd happily place money on a Bombardier based fleet strategy. Turboprops consolidated around the Q series and the C series to open AKL- deep south isl
143 NZ6 : Regional not some crazy Trans Tasman services.
144 cchan : Is there much commonality between the Qs and the C series? The C series is more like 732/733 capacity. NZ would have ordered 319 or at least get some
145 zkojh : so start with something small like the local market the new 'C series' would be a sweet little baby, plus NZ going head to head with JQ on WLG-ZQN, ma
146 NZ1 : Only 2? Watch this space... NZ1
147 NZ1 : The announcement is scheduled for 1pm, and will be to do with the Regional fleet. Can't say anymore sorry. NZ1
148 ZKSUJ : My pick is something to do with merging all 3 regionals into one maybe? They are recruiting all the pilots under one banner now instead of individual
149 cchan : This makes very good sense to NZ. Perhaps also something about the replacements for the AT7, or the transfer of a few of the newer 733s into regional
150 zkojh : something like AC has down with Air Canada 'Express' on the side of the dash 8's thats sexy... = ANZ Express??
151 A330NZ : I'd love to see NZ order an aircraft that can fill the gap between the ATR72, and the 737. Also, when the 737's get replaced by A320's, the gap will
152 MillwallSean : Regional ah well makes sense I guess.. I know everyone talks Bombardier on here. But I hope they get some of those ATR:s. The more I fly them the mor
153 TravellerPlus : True. I'm more used to thinking of Australian regional where a "regional" flight inside WA can be as long as a Tasman sector. For me at least, it see
154 Post contains links timb777 : Looks to be the ATR-72-600 order that NZ107 was hoping for! http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...5810162/Air-NZ-tipped-to-spend-big Though doesn't s
155 nascarnut : Dreamliner coming to NZ Nov 12-14 according to the NZ Herald. Will be arriving on the 12th Non-stop from Seattle..
156 777ER : Interesting! Didn't NZ also secure good Q400 rates when ordering the Q300?
157 aerorobnz : it said the options were Q400 ATR-600 series and EMB170. won't know til 1pm
158 timb777 : These were considered 3 years ago when NZ decided to purchase AT7s off lease instead of aquiring new frames. (though I'm sure all options were consid
159 aerorobnz : looks like its ATR..... 7x atr72-600 with purchase op for another 5...worth 270mill[Edited 2011-10-18 17:02:46]
160 aerorobnz : - Will be delivered starting in 12 months time - Auckland based - Designed to upgrade AKL-NSN, AKL-NPL Q300 routes initially , allowing the Q300 to be
161 cchan : If NZ is going to acquire some regional jets, I would IMHO, ATR72-600 would be the logical choice. ATR72s have been in service with NZ for 10+ years,
162 zkojh : it works well with virgin getting them too - seems they are really working together, well done.. r.e the 787 to AKL is this a big PR stunt to get NZ t
163 aerorobnz : Since 1994, with the -200, since 1999 with the -500.. the -500s look to be here until 2018 at which time they will order more ATRs and probably repla
164 777ER : I'm suspecting its a chance for NZs MX crew to look over the aircraft and for ground crew to test it at the international terminal, like what happene
165 cchan : The ATRs are great aircrafts to fly on for years to come. I doubt whether NZ has any incentive to operate jets to regional destination when turboprop
166 aerokiwi : Last I'd heard about the existing ATR fleet was that they were pretty seriously under-utilised. Admittedly, that was from these forums but someone did
167 NZ107 : Great choice Air NZ. Looking forward to being on that first flight. Well Rob Fyfe told me last year that we wouldn't be seeing any E-jets in the fleet
168 aerorobnz : agreed. I don't think there is a need for another aircraft type. Theoretically we could have as few as 4 aircraft types in the whole fleet in 2018 -
169 TravellerPlus : Nice to see the ATRS. Please post your best apple-pie recipes in the non-av forum...
170 alangirvan : The humble apple pies will be made from the excellent NZ grown apples, as enjoyed by Julia Gillard in Canberra - a gift from NZ. The ATRs do have a s
171 cchan : Unless there is some competition in the domestic market, AND the competitor uses regional jets, AND the competitor is taking away a substantial share
172 Post contains images NZ107 : You could probably argue that seeing that the NEO seems like it's a new beast altogether - however NZ did order it at a time when these NEOs weren't
173 777ER : The linked article in reply #154 stated this "Air New Zealand shelved a US$300 million (NZ$375m) plan for 15 larger turboprops to replace its fleet o
174 Post contains links NZdsgnr : I'm more excited about the 787 visiting Auckland in Nov!! http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/new...ticle.cfm?c_id=7&objectid=10760152
175 alangirvan : I would have said the orders for 6 737-200s in 1984, and several F-27s could be added to the list, depending how far back you go. Even the 777-20ERs
176 cchan : Adding these to the equation would get around 40 or 50% support to the statement, which isn't a strong support. However, I do agree that NZ is very c
177 Post contains images ZKEOJ : me too! I am flying out to NRT that day, and hope to see it at AKL when I leave. But even if not, the following day I am booked on NH's 787 for HND-H
178 zkojh : updates on Japan flights for next year; Air New Zealand would like to advise the following schedule adjustments for travel to/from Japan. Flight Cance
179 aerorobnz : I'm hoping to get on it, like I did with the 777LR Boeing demo when it came last time.
180 nzstevenc : I believe this has been covered here before but I think it was a while ago and I can't find this by searching... Do AirAsiaX have plans to serve AKL?
181 cchan : I think it has been mentioned that AirAsiaX doesn't fly into AKL has something to do with MH and/or the Malaysian government.
182 Post contains links JMM99 : NZ(& EY) to fill in for VA if VA 777's fly domestic routes in Australia during escalating QF disputes. So which NZ (& EY) aircraft would be us
183 aerorobnz : Almost definitely. That is all we have going spare, and also they are what have previously been used when VA have been stuck with broken aircraft. As
184 nzstevenc : Ahh yes, that's it. Does anyone have an extract from the Malaysia-NZ Air Services Agreement breaking down the passenger service limits? Also along th
185 zkncj : Any news about ZK-OJK and if she is still going to be returning to NZ
186 nascarnut : I believe at is a Malaysian Government ruling that currently does not allow Air AsiaX to compete directly against MH on any significant routes. KUL -
187 SunriseValley : So right.Given the typical sector lengths and now the wish to fly some ULH routes the 77L would have been worth a closer look but who knew the extent
188 aerorobnz : maybe it will be down to weight, but it is the commercial impact of not having the aircraft will be more significant. It can't work miracles if in th
189 xiaotung : So when DJ borrowed NZ B747 last time did NZ crew the flight? If not, did DJ crew qualify for B747s without additional training given it was such a s
190 NZ107 : Let's put it in this context - if you were Rob Fyfe, would you let some VA staff fly and service your plane? Quite obvious here that it's similar to
191 SunriseValley : NZ could have taken steps to commence developing the routes which ever they are in 2009 when economic conditions started to improve by making some sh
192 zkojh : don't think Fyfe is scared would he spend 350 million this week on ATR's - but would of been a lot better to go and give this to Boeing for some 77L's
193 aerorobnz : All NZ crew, it was purely just a chartered NZ aircraft, using NZ systems, and gaining NZ airpoints. it just happened to have VA passengers.
194 Post contains links NZ107 : Here's what NZ1 was talking about: http://www.voxy.co.nz/sport/more-black-planes-coming-air-nz/5/105113 .... 3 black B1900Ds???? But.... a black 77W
195 kiwiandrew : It makes sense to me, people in the smaller centres care about rugby far more than the rest of us do. This will take the rugby image to places where
196 alangirvan : Some strange things about the possible Virgin lease of some AirNZ and Etihad planes - if it is to cover the Qantas Industrial Relations problems - who
197 NZ107 : Yeah fair enough but I think 3's a bit too many.. Make it one or two and make it special because it's bound to get around sometime. Or maybe a B1900D
198 aerorobnz : It was absolutely filled to the brim when I flew this recently. As I said, the 744 is the only real spare aircraft that NZ can use for an extended pe
199 ZKSUJ : So someone needs to tell Rob Fyfe to organize a fomation 77W, 744 and A320 low level fly by over Eden park at 7:55PM on sunday. Then it will still be
200 777ER : Fully agree that 3x 1900Ds are too much. Maybe 1x 1900D, 1x Q300 and/or 1x ATR. That would cover every regional airport as not every airport gets 190
201 Post contains links cchan : Thank you for everyone's contributions in this thread, please continue the discussion in New Zealand Aviation Thread #104 (by cchan Oct 21 2011 in Civ
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