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EK Pulls Forward MUC A380 Starting Date  
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1406 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8332 times:

As LH has announced one week of A380 service from MUC to JFK in December, EK decided LH shouldn't get the honor of operating the first scheduled commercial A380 service from/to MUC throgh this PR action and has pulled forward the starting date from January 1st, 2012 to November 25th, 2011.

Emirates brings forward Munich A380 launch

[Edited 2011-10-12 05:54:13 by SA7700]


WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineyp6370 From Germany, joined Apr 2000, 200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8317 times:

Silly game  
Maybe LH could operate the 380 once a week on MUC-FRA  


User currently offlinemozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2238 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8317 times:

Almost childish...

Now will LH pull its service forward as well? Or operate an un-announced equipment swap sometime in the very near future so that EK cannot retaliate?


User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1883 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7984 times:

Actually quite smart! Free publicity stunt!

[Edited 2011-10-12 05:54:58 by SA7700]


لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3626 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7946 times:

I love it! What a move!

Why should the honor go to LH? Are they going to serve MUC with 380 service on a regular basis like EK is? No.

Good for EK! haha


User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9740 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7767 times:

I could have bet a dozen camels on that.

Quoting yp6370 (Reply 1):
Maybe LH could operate the 380 once a week on MUC-FRA

yep, they have to practise take offs and landings not only on the simulator.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlinesf260 From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7341 times:

This really made my day. Shuffling A380's around like I did with my toy planes, 15 years ago!   

User currently offlinesydaircargo From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6504 times:

why MUC and not FRA ? or is EK bringin the A380 to FRA too?

User currently offlineflyglobal From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6371 times:

I am with EK on this one. The party who honestly wants to put the A380 in service for regularly deserves the party rights, not LH doing this as a reaction to spoil the EK party.

regards

Flyglobal


User currently offlineLAXspotr From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 81 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6306 times:

Wonderful news, but what's going to be suspended in order to bring the MUC start date forward? Currently it's been a struggle for the company to keep an A380 on JNB daily, as JED is being cancelled (almost) daily in order to free up an aircraft...

With 2 new A380 scheduled for delivery by the end of October, I suppose the first flight to MUC can indeed be brought forward... but... if it is brought forward then I don't understand how both Kuala Lumpur & Rome can start just a few days later on December 1st, even if the direct service to HKG (EK 380/381) ends Oct 31st!  

What do you all think?

Cheers,

Josh May


User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2168 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5416 times:

Why wouldn't EK bring their A380 to FRA first? Is FRA not a stronger market for them?


Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlinefraapproach From Germany, joined Oct 2010, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

EK will increase FRA from January from 2 daily 777 to 3 daily (2x777 & 1xA332). So there is a capacity increase in both MUC and FRA.

Other point: Wouldn´t it make sense to "sacrifice" the weakest German EK destination which is probably either HAM or DUS and start Berlin instead (EK is limited to 4 destinations in Germany). Berlin is absolute diaspora when it comes to long haul flying and this move could really be very clever in the long term.


User currently offlinebavair From Germany, joined Jul 2011, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5249 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 11):
Why wouldn't EK bring their A380 to FRA first? Is FRA not a stronger market for them?

In FRA they are starting/started an additional frequency instead. I'm not quite sure on the numbers, but I think that might actually be slightly more capacity in total. At the same time FRA is already served by A380's on several routes so the "A380 effect" wouldn't be as great.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13529 posts, RR: 100
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4802 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

When I saw this thread title, that was my first question. Thank you for hunting down the answer.

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 3):
Actually quite smart! Free publicity stunt!

I agree. The A380 generates PR. Why not go for free publicity? MUC, like MAN, will generate 'buzz' by having the A380 operate. Who remembers who was 2nd?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 5):
I could have bet a dozen camels on that.

  

Quoting bavair (Reply 13):
In FRA they are starting/started an additional frequency instead.

Thanks. I had 'dropped the ball' on that. In a way it makes sense. FRA is a prime premium O&D airport and premium traffic insists on frequency.

Quoting bavair (Reply 13):
At the same time FRA is already served by A380's on several routes so the "A380 effect" wouldn't be as great.

100% agree. EK should consentrate A380 launches where the PR impact is greatest. I'm waiting for a return of the EK A380 to the USA.

Lightsaber

[Edited 2011-10-12 06:07:55 by SA7700]


Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4658 times:

Quoting fraapproach (Reply 12):
Wouldn´t it make sense to "sacrifice" the weakest German EK destination which is probably either HAM or DUS and start Berlin instead

How weak is the HAM market?

On my recent flights to and from HAM the loadings were very good in J and Y, although not so high in F without passengers receiving op ups. And EK has restored the second daily flight despite commencing CPH which may have been in HAM's catchment in the past. I am unfamiliar with the loadings on the DUS service as I don't use it, so my question is purely related to HAM as a possible sacrifice in favour of Berlin.

Sure my evidence is anecdotal and on other flights the loadings may be dreadful, but why would EK recommence a second service if it doesn't attract customers? Maybe time will tell and they may cut back once more.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8657 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4617 times:

Quoting flyglobal (Reply 8):
I am with EK on this one. The party who honestly wants to put the A380 in service for regularly deserves the party rights, not LH doing this as a reaction to spoil the EK party.

Well, one could argue quite reasonably that EK's A380 service to MUC is a childish move in and on itself. They're only doing it to get back to LH for voicing their opinion about EK being granted more access to Germany. Going from an A343 to an A380 is quite the capacity increase  


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13529 posts, RR: 100
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4579 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting fraapproach (Reply 12):
Wouldn´t it make sense to "sacrifice" the weakest German EK destination which is probably either HAM or DUS and start Berlin instead (EK is limited to 4 destinations in Germany). Berlin is absolute diaspora when it comes to long haul flying and this move could really be very clever in the long term.

When the new BER opens, EK should sacrifice the weakest German city. But which one? I could see BER going 3X daily with one (or 2X) A388. IMHO, the yield will be better. Although, I lack facts and thus I share this question:

Quoting Quokka (Reply 15):
How weak is the HAM market?

Any figures on HAM or DUS?

Quoting airbazar (Reply 16):
Going from an A343 to an A380 is quite the capacity increase

Also a tremendous PR boost and estimated 20% drop in CASM. Now, I realize the Dubai/Germany bilateral requires EK to keep fares at or above the lowest German Airline fares (see link below), but I still think EK will make more profit (less loss?) upgauging MUC.

Insane? German Authority Forces EK To Raise Prices (by Thorben Nov 19 2009 in Civil Aviation)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinefraapproach From Germany, joined Oct 2010, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4557 times:

Quoting Quokka (Reply 15):
How weak is the HAM market?

I am not saying its weak. I am just making my mind up if it would make sense to abandon one german destination for Berlin.

Berlin gets a revamped 21st century airport and I don´t see LH starting plenty of flights to longhaul destinations in the east from there (if any). It will all be channeled through FRA and MUC. With Air Berlin at its knees I really think there is much potential for a gulf airline to build up a solid presence. I could even imagine you could fill 2 A380 a day to Berlin for the demand the city could have to destinations in Africa, Asia and Oceania - especially wif you are EK. And there could be enough premium traffic too - Berlin is the capital and there is probably lots of demand from embassy personell... Last but not least the catchment area of Berlin Airport would be more or less entire east Germany as there is no other airport/town wich could take over its role. By this way you could really make LH look bad. A bit like BA being Heathrow airlines LH is more or less West Germany if not FRA and MUC airlines. Just look how successful EK is in Britain outside London.


User currently offlinefraapproach From Germany, joined Oct 2010, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 17):
When the new BER opens, EK should sacrifice the weakest German city. But which one? I could see BER going 3X daily with one (or 2X) A388. IMHO, the yield will be better.

Thats what I am thinking as well. Its a low hanging fruit and LH should be pretty careful. At the latest when the bilateral changes EK will jump on Berlin immediately.


User currently offlinebonusonus From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4537 times:

Nice little PR boost for EK there. Doesn't make them any more friends in the European governments though.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
100% agree. EK should consentrate A380 launches where the PR impact is greatest. I'm waiting for a return of the EK A380 to the USA.

Have they pulled the A380 off of JFK for the winter? What US destination will get the A380 next?


User currently offlinefraapproach From Germany, joined Oct 2010, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4502 times:

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 20):
Doesn't make them any more friends in the European governments though.

I don´t think that the German government will care (especially with all the financial mess they have to deal with). But LH is certainly not happy about it. Could this make them set up an A380 or 747-8 station in MUC. Currently only FRA gets these birds. Largest LH bird in MUC is A346.


User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4474 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 17):
Quoting Quokka (Reply 15):How weak is the HAM market?
Any figures on HAM or DUS?

Unfortunately all I have is my personal experience on the HAM - DXB route as I have not flown DUS - DXB. I have wondered how much an affect CPH will have on HAM as passengers from Scandinavia have used the HAM service in the past. DUS I would imagine has a potentially larger catchment due to its location. But actual loadings, I have no idea.

At present the decision by EK may indicate that they are optimistic both in passenger numbers growing in HAM and of there being a change in heart over the limitation on destinations. However, I am not privy to the basis for their reasoning. Perhaps if the powers that be conclude that Berlin may become a white elephant, as has been suggested in some other threads, then the possibility of EK gaining Berlin and not STR grows.

Interesting that you link to an old post by Thorben. His account is no longer active. Whatever happened to him? I recall that there were several people panning him over the idea that there were sufficient numbers of people in Berlin who could afford to travel and pay fares that allowed the airlines to operate profitably. The general image was that Berlin was full of people dependent on welfare and that there was no industry to support anything but bargain basement hunters.

If Thorben was right then EK could definitely fill planes. But if his critics were the ones who are right, then what?

[Edited 2011-10-11 08:29:57]

User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3626 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4468 times:

"
Have they pulled the A380 off of JFK for the winter? What US destination will get the A380 next?"

I see it every day at JFK.

It's been back for a while


User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9740 posts, RR: 31
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4451 times:

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 20):
Nice little PR boost for EK there. Doesn't make them any more friends in the European governments thoug

I don't think that this is on the agenda of the cabinet meetings. In other words, the government oculd not care less.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineRaptor1090 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2011, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

Quoting bonusonus (Reply 20):
Have they pulled the A380 off of JFK for the winter? What US destination will get the A380 next?
JFK has been an A380 service since Oct 31st, 2010. And will remain to be so. I guess what lightsaber meant was that he awaited the return of an introduction of service?

[Edited 2011-10-11 08:56:49]

25 airbazar : If they can fill it. My understanding is that the current flights aren't exactly experiencing high loads in the premium cabins. It's a huge jump in J
26 ju068 : I think that Emirates had to launch Copenhagen simply because of Qatar. Doubt that many people from Copenhagen would travel all the way to Hamburg ju
27 Post contains images lightsaber : Then DUS and HAM are safe. EK will scrutinize the numbers to a degree not possible for us arm chair quarterbacks. Thank you. I missed that the A380 w
28 frat : If Berlin has that big potential as you are implying, why is QR still flying with a narrowbody there? Of course EK could fill one daily flight, but 2
29 airbazar : That's only true if you have a healthy LF in F and J to make up for the poor LF in Y. It doesn't work the other way around.
30 PanHAM : BER can't even make up with a decent amount of cargo, which is another big part of EK's revenue. Not even HUM, which is a good potential for TK, at le
31 bavair : I don't think that's going to be the case here. EK has 2 daily flights to MUC, one operated with B77W and the other with a mix of A340's and B777's.
32 Steman : Didn´t EK specifically request the German Govt to open up routes from DXB to TXL (later BER) and STR? I doubt that they could fill up 1 A380 from BER
33 PanHAM : I don't want to open this can of worms again, but EK had a choice, get traffic rights to TXL and STR with a capping of 49 services weekly for all Ger
34 Steman : oh ok, didn´t know that they had been presented with a choice. I guess HAM and DUS make more business sense than TXL and STR right now. Hopefully thi
35 PanHAM : with the possible new coalition the chances are better, but I doubt that AB will have the strenght to make BER a real hub. There's more biz for them
36 Post contains images astuteman : At MAN? Don't think there's been one yet, has there? Based on EK's profitability, I'd suggest that they know what they're doing....... Rgds
37 n729pa : In this day and age it's quite funny if not a bit childish. Does it really matter? It's all very well be the first to operate the A380 in/from a certa
38 airbazar : Of course they do: they know publicity. Even if this one route is not profitable due to inferior LF or lower prices in order to fill the plane, that
39 Post contains links and images lightsaber : It could be that only one flight time at MUC is profitable for EK. A la SQ and ZRH/CDG. Agreed. But negotiations require one keep asking for more. 49
40 hal9213 : Aehm, to everybody, who is wondering about HAM: Back in the times where it was 1x daily, it used to be one of the most lucrative and high-yield desti
41 Post contains images airbazar : Oh please. You think it's just pure coincidence that EK announced their intention to operate the A380 to MUC practically the day after it was denied
42 Post contains links and images Semaex : Gotten a little off-topic, hasn't it So coming back to the PR stunt that EK is pulling off: I must admit, it's a very smart move. And to some extend L
43 Post contains links PlaneHunter : ...and thousands of people were hanging around at and around the airport in order to see it. The police even had to block parts of the road along the
44 EK773 : If you want to count who was first to MUC with their A380, remember EK had a medical diversion to MUC on their second every operation flight - which s
45 Post contains images Semaex : I had no idea. When was that, any report or thread on the subject you can link to?
46 Post contains links hal9213 : I guess it must be this one: http://avherald.com/h?article=40af6e1f
47 Jett : So is this the reason why Ek has pulled their A380 from JNB from the 25 Nov till 29 Nov??. I originally booked this flight because of the A380
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