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Scrapped Frontier Airlines A318s  
User currently offlineaudidudi From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 436 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 24609 times:

Does anyone know which two Frontier Airlines A318s were scrapped, where they were scrapped and are there any photos of the scrapping in progress? Airfleets.net says N806FR and N808FR were the two and Planespotters.net says N808FR and N809FR.
Thanks!

[Edited 2011-10-11 10:12:08]

78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 24190 times:
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This has been discussed previously but here is the latest on this needless waste:

Scrapped at GWO

N806FR
N807FR
N808FR
N809FR

Scrapped at RFD

N810FR
N812FR


These were all new a/c and sadly the word was they could not be sold. But I do hope someone in the leasing company who ordered these and leased them to Frontier was fired.......this is an economic waste as these a/c should never have been built


User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2729 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 24006 times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_imfKP6WfJc

Sad end for these young birds. Amazing to think when I flew 810 in 2007, it was brand new.  



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineCPHFF From Sweden, joined Aug 2011, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 23958 times:

Is this for real?

Are we scrapping 4-year old Aircraft?????? What's wrong with this world????

PL



Detroit is bankrupt. Don't forget to thank UAW folks!
User currently offlinetrigged From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 23910 times:

Sad Day---New Airbus 318 Being Scrapped! (by N471WN Aug 25 2009 in Civil Aviation)

User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3392 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 23570 times:

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 3):
Are we scrapping 4-year old Aircraft?????? What's wrong with this world????

as an aircraft 3 legged dogs have higher resale value than the A318.
318 parts however work on the larger models and thus the parts value is very high.

Expect any 318 or 736 leaving a fleet to become parts as soon as the ink dries on the sale contract.


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2694 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 23336 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 1):
But I do hope someone in the leasing company who ordered these and leased them to Frontier was fired

Really? I am currentely in a hotel room because someone will be fired Tomorrow. Can you give him a new job? Can you explain his children why he is at home from now on every day? Then I would be more careful with such wishes.


User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7472 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 23012 times:

I accept your point.

However, I do agree that someone who screws up on a major scale should not just walk away from it.


User currently offlineamccann From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 22869 times:

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 3):
Are we scrapping 4-year old Aircraft?????? What's wrong with this world????

I am not accusing anyone on this thread of hypocrisy, but it seems as is the civil aviation world cries bloody marry when a plane is scrapped young and cries bloody marry when an aircraft is inefficient (A318 burns nearly the same amount of fuel as the A319 while carrying a smaller payload). The scrapping of A318s is obviously very sad, but when choosing the lesser of two evils it appears a scrapped young aircraft is less evil.



What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 21448 times:
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Scapping involves recycling/selling many if not most of the useful parts on the aircraft. If the plane can't make money (thanks to higher fuel costs and same burn as a 319), it get scrapped. Those parts will live on for a long time in tons of other 319's and 320's.

I doubt the leasing company fired anyone due to this deal.


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3392 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 21207 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 9):

I doubt the leasing company fired anyone due to this deal.

somewhere I read that an A320 is worth more as parts at delivery, the only reason they are not being scrapped is the profit of operating them is of course much higher than parting your brand new plane. Certainly for an A318 where the leasing company likely made good profit from the lease, and now is going to make good profit on the sale of the frame, why would you fire anyone? Its not like the company bought the 318's on speculation that it would command above normal lease rates for the next 30 years.

I will expect a glut of 737 and A32x frames of all ages being scrapped if Boeing and Airbus ever get thier production rates high enough to meet demand. Spare parts are very expensive and if you are getting newer cheaper to operate frames just as fast as you want them...


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2241 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 21040 times:

Quoting n471wn (Reply 1):
But I do hope someone in the leasing company who ordered these and leased them to Frontier was fired...

Why? If Frontier wanted 318s, they were going to lease them from somewhere.

This is illogical.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 18400 times:

That is terrible to hear - all the animals on those planes reincarnated on A320s, E190s etc right?

They couldn't sell them to an airline that currently uses them for dirt cheap?


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6303 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 18326 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 13):

They couldn't sell them to an airline that currently uses them for dirt cheap?

Why sell the whole aircraft for "dirt cheap" when you can sell the parts for decent money...? Or use them yourself for savings versus brand new parts.


User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 880 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 18236 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 13):
They couldn't sell them to an airline that currently uses them for dirt cheap?

Nobody wants them. Just like the 737-600's, too heavy for payload, not efficient, and almost impossible to make money with, especially with today's fuel prices.


User currently offlinedashman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16763 times:

Jeepers they are just pieces of machinery not someone's cute cocker spaniel. Probably will not have any significant historical standing so it seems like a sound economical decision.

User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14769 times:

The error was probably developing the A318 in the first place, I bet Pratt wish they hadn't bothered...


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineEagleboy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1795 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14630 times:
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Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 9):
Scapping involves recycling/selling many if not most of the useful parts on the aircraft. If the plane can't make money (thanks to higher fuel costs and same burn as a 319), it get scrapped. Those parts will live on for a long time in tons of other 319's and 320's.

I think the reaction is to the word 'scrapped', this conjures up an image of a 4 year old airliner crushed into a little cube of metal. However the reality is that these aircraft did not work out and were not wanted by any airline, so to turn a profit the leasing company parted them out.

The term scrapped is not really correct for this process.

[Edited 2011-10-12 01:33:33]

User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7472 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14231 times:

Scraping is just what you do with what is left after parting out is complete.

User currently offlineMarcoT From Italy, joined May 2005, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12949 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 17):
The error was probably developing the A318 in the first place, I bet Pratt wish they hadn't bothered...

If anything is the other way round: had Pratt not horribly botched the PW6000 maybe the A318 would have had a fighting chance...



Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12871 times:

Quoting dashman (Reply 15):
Jeepers they are just pieces of machinery not someone's cute cocker spaniel

It was someone's Elk (802), Rabbit (803), fox cubs (804)


User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1519 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12572 times:

Quoting MarcoT (Reply 20):
If anything is the other way round: had Pratt not horribly botched the PW6000 maybe the A318 would have had a fighting chance...

Doubt it. The A318 is still too small for the same fuel burn and similar weight as the 319. On the same token, I'd bet you large A319 operators wish they had bought 320s instead except for airports that need the short field performance it offers. Economics are everything in this day an age. The 318 and 737-600 face the same issues that the CRJ 50 and ERJ's face. As fuel prices rise smaller derivatives of larger aircraft will fall out of favor as well (think CRJ-700, ERJ-170, A319, 737-700).

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 21):

It was someone's Elk (802), Rabbit (803), fox cubs (804)

You're kidding right? If I paint a dolphin on the side of my washing machine and then take it to the dump, I'm still ONLY throwing away a freakin' washing machine. An airplane is a piece of machinery. Eventually it will wear out or become obsolete and be disposed of. I'll be the first to agree that some airplanes have personalities, but anything with turbofans under the wings, screens in the cockpit and single axle mains is just another airplane...


User currently offlinea380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 11567 times:

So where are the remaining A318s now? (if there are any)

User currently offlineEDTrauma From UK - Scotland, joined Jul 2011, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10582 times:

Quoting a380900 (Reply 22):
So where are the remaining A318s now? (if there are any)

According to Planespotters.Net:

Air France (18), Avianca (15), British Airways (2), Frontier (4), LAN (10), RAK Airways (1), TAROM (4)


User currently offlinekcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 10432 times:

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 21):
You're kidding right? If I paint a dolphin on the side of my washing machine and then take it to the dump, I'm still ONLY throwing away a freakin' washing machine. An airplane is a piece of machinery. Eventually it will wear out or become obsolete and be disposed of. I'll be the first to agree that some airplanes have personalities, but anything with turbofans under the wings, screens in the cockpit and single axle mains is just another airplane...

I think they've dedicated some of their aircraft/tails to certain employees or people for various reasons.


25 fpetrutiu : No way. It will still be too heavy. That aircraft would have been better off in the shredder before the first parts for it would have been built. The
26 shankly : ...but I bet BA are glad they did
27 fpetrutiu : For 2 A318's???? The B737-700ER could do the job without the fuel stop in Ireland...
28 shankly : A 737-700ER could depart LCY with a full load and make it to NYC? You'd better give BA a call, they've dropped a fleet selection clanger... ....it wo
29 Post contains links and images golftango : Here you go!
30 col : BA ordered many more, but I think they switched to 319/320 after PW screwed the engine up. Brilliant, that is one of the best replies I have seen, sh
31 SCL767 : LAN is currently in the process of phasing out the A-318s from its fleet and will no longer operate the A-318 a/c by 2013.
32 Eagleboy : Maybe it could, however the stop in Ireland isn't just for fuel......while aircraft is being refuelled the up to 32 pax are being processed through t
33 aamd11 : I think BA's A321 were the aircraft ordered in place of the A318s... I'm sure I remember reading many years ago the A321s were being taken in place o
34 AirbusA6 : I think BA took the opportunity caused by the PW screw up to upscale their A318s into something more economic! Indeed, they are probably quite glad PW
35 trigged : Thanks for the photo! Question: Why are photos of aircraft at GWO getting scrapped so scarce? I am assuming that there is some sort of photography pr
36 Post contains images DashTrash : Didn't know that. Hopefully they'll get a new frame then. It might, but it would still be in ground effect....
37 n471wn : So are you saying the leasing company bought these a/c with the knowledege that they would have such a short service life and be scrapped and that th
38 bennett123 : My understanding is that aircraft generally have a short stay at Greenwood.
39 Newark727 : Are Frontier planning to scrap the rest of their A318s too? They still have some in service- I saw 803 just a couple days ago.
40 trigged : There are some shots at Greenwood from a while back, but it seems as though the newer stuff is nonexistent. What is the average time an aircraft sits
41 CRJ900 : It appears that only Frontier A318s are being scrapped... could it be that they configured them "wrong" - 114 economy seats with PTV, giving high CASM
42 Post contains links mariner : Whoa - Frontier has 120 seats in their A318's - 96 regular economy and 24 Stretch. http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Fro.../Frontier_Airlines_Airbus_A
43 asqx : Now they have 120 seats, but when delivered they were all 114 in coach, three rows short of the A319s which sat 132 at the time. It led to some inter
44 n471wn : What do Frontier employees think about the premature demise of the A-318?
45 Post contains images mariner : I'm aware of that, but since we are discussing the A318's now - when they are leaving the fleet - accuracy in all things. The whole point of Frontier
46 wn700driver : Yuk. That actually reminds me of a few horrible experiences of my own. Anyway, having had the pleasure of riding most of those scrapped planes, I am
47 mariner : Frontier already has new planes on order. mariner
48 bennett123 : What are they buying?.
49 Post contains links mariner : Take your pick: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...rways-for-80-a320neo-aircraft.html "Republic Airways Holdings Inc. (RJET) agreed to buy 80 of
50 bennett123 : My guess is 40 A319, and prob 40 A320's.
51 Post contains images mariner : Depends. The CEO has said that he leans to A320 size aircraft, for obvious reasons. However, John Leahy, of Airbus, has said that the A319Neo is the
52 XT6Wagon : I'm saying it doesn't matter at all. They didn't buy the 318 on speculation. They were aquired for the specific airline. So the lease deal would HAVE
53 turk223 : So, is it fair to say that Avianca has made a poor decision in swapping its Fokker 100s for A318s? It seems that AV is pretty OK with it!
54 Post contains links fpetrutiu : Of course he did... he's a sales person... He also said this: "Although the aircraft will be significantly heavier than the 717, the additional cost
55 Newark727 : Well, they do have a bunch of A32x aircraft elsewhere in the fleet, which offers certain economies of scale that are probably more difficult in the F
56 SCL767 : AV will take delivery of LAN's remaining 10 A-318s by 2013. The A-318s aren't popular with LAN for various reasons, luckily LAN was able to offload t
57 TZTriStar500 : First, Frontier did not lease them, they were owned. In fact 810 and 812 were added in May/June of 07 and out 3 years later. My opinion, but a very p
58 n7371f : N804FR is stored at Lourdes, France and at last check was to be scrapped as well.
59 Post contains links mariner : I think you missed my point. Because he said that, it became fairly important that there be a launch customer for the A319Neo - and there wasn't one
60 mariner : Once again, at the time they were ordered and the first delivered, fuel was still very cheap. Oil did not begin its run until the end of of 2003, whe
61 TZTriStar500 : Right, forgot a few were leased most likely 806 and 807, but most were not. OK, but all I have read and recall that at least Frontier can be called '
62 TZTriStar500 : We can agree to disagree, but I think the addition of the A318 at all was poor as it always had border line favorable economics. However, my comment
63 mariner : As I said earlier. As to the CFM, Airbus did not originally offer it with the A318 - it was to be all PW - but Air France said they would only buy th
64 LAXintl : Indeed Frontier was never the launch customer for the A318, having placed its order in October 1999 with hopes of first delivery in 2001. The first or
65 fpetrutiu : Sure but Airbus was the one comparing the A318 to the 717 saying that it will sell just as many having a 50% market share. They had no "new" competit
66 TZTriStar500 : I can agree with this, but certainly sounds like Frontier was the exception in this case being able to make it work at the time. Its just shocking ho
67 mariner : The A318 was always a shrink too far, but for Frontier it was a reasonably happy alignment of the stars - at the time. And if fuel had stayed low, it
68 TZTriStar500 : Not quite accurate. The first A318 delivered in July 03 and the the last 717 was delivered in April 06 almost 3 years later. Also, the 736 sold 9 mor
69 mcg : The conventional wisdom is that eliminating the A318's and adding A319's or A320's is a good thing for Frontier. The apparent reason for this is that
70 panais : If you are right on the A318 selling price, then anyone who can spend $35 million can buy the 5 A318s and start an airline. The other issue that I se
71 enilria : Perhaps this was part of RFD's incentive plan to get F9 service. LOL
72 mariner : Um - I have some problems with that. When Rossiya (almost) signed to take a couple of A318 and some A319, it ran away from the deal as fast as it cou
73 TZTriStar500 : This is not accurate as no used A319s will be purchased, but leased, which totally changes the initial cash outlay. Yes, there is now a lease cost ve
74 Post contains links fpetrutiu : You are taking delivery dates, I am taking when Boeing stopped offering the 717's (January 13, 2005). The A318's, we are talking airline config not b
75 TZTriStar500 : I'm confused what you are trying to say as I don't generally disagree. My only point was that all three were competitors for several years before the
76 Burkhard : The decision to build the A318 was taken in 1998. The purpose was to have the Airbus narrow body family cover at least the same size range as Boeing
77 bennett123 : I assume you mean the Boeing B737-600?.
78 n471wn : Keep in mind when comparing the 737-600 with the 318 that of the 69 737-600's built all are active except the one that was scrapped .
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