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Pratt & Whitney Buys Out Rolls-Royce Venture  
User currently onlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 19486 times:

WOW!!!

PW and Rolls Royce Announce New Partnership on Next Generation Engines...

Quote:

"Under the arrangements, Pratt & Whitney will purchase Rolls Royce share of IAE for $1.5 billion, plus an agreed by the hour payment for the next 15 years for the current installed fleet. PW may, in turn, offer a portion of these shares to MTU and JAEC, other IAE partners."

http://airinsight.com/2011/10/12/pw-...ership-on-next-generation-engines/

This is an incredible announcement! Looks like P&W really have something in the GTF!


harder than woodpecker lips...
95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2192 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 19445 times:

Quoting mffoda (Thread starter):
RR & PW Get Married!

A bit extreme to say that, this is no where close to a marriage.


User currently offlineplanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 816 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 19391 times:

Quoting poLOT (Reply 1):
A bit extreme to say that, this is no where close to a marriage.

Did you read the article though?

More information is detailed in there regarding a mid sized engine joint venture between the two companies.

The selected quote actually reads more as a divorce!


User currently onlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19315 times:

Quoting poLOT (Reply 1):

Quoting mffoda (Thread starter):
RR & PW Get Married!

A bit extreme to say that, this is no where close to a marriage.

This is Huge... It means that Pratt / RR will most likely be together on the next NB A/C as well as other GTF projects... Which puts RR back in the hunt in the NB market!

"What’s stunning in the new partnership RR and PW announced to develop engines in the 120-230 seat market and to focus on Geared Turbo Fan technology." (from Leeham)



harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19251 times:

Quoting mffoda (Reply 3):
"What’s stunning in the new partnership RR and PW announced to develop engines in the 120-230 seat market and to focus on Geared Turbo Fan technology." (from Leeham)

Sounds like the reality that open rotors will not be arriving anytime soon has sunk in. It seems, based on what's written in the OP's article, that RR has seen that open rotor won't likely make it onto the next generation of narrowbodies and consequently decided to put their eggs in the GTF basket.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13138 posts, RR: 100
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19215 times:
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Quoting mffoda (Reply 3):
"What’s stunning in the new partnership RR and PW announced to develop engines in the 120-230 seat market and to focus on Geared Turbo Fan technology." (from Leeham)

What shocked me:Rolls Royce will also invest in the Pure Power 1100G-JM engine as a part of this transaction.

While Pratt is giving up a lot, they are also bringing in the RR sales team. I think everyone will gain. It will be a question of who has the best 'return on investment.'

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2192 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19177 times:

Quoting planesailing (Reply 2):

Did you read the article though?

More information is detailed in there regarding a mid sized engine joint venture between the two companies.

The selected quote actually reads more as a divorce!

Yes I did (and yes, I agree it was a strange part of the article to quote). But I still think the thread title is a little extreme. Its a big deal, but PW and RR already have a JV together, and they are dissolving it (sort of)....and forming a new one, which also may include the other players in the IAE partnership. It may move the two closer together, but the title makes it sound like PW and RR are merging, which they are nowhere close to doing. It is basically reaffirmation of the status quo.

The cynic inside me wants to know why PW feels the need to work with RR if the GTF is going great though...

[Edited 2011-10-12 15:39:25]

User currently onlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19159 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
What shocked me:Rolls Royce will also invest in the Pure Power 1100G-JM engine as a part of this transaction.

While Pratt is giving up a lot, they are also bringing in the RR sales team. I think everyone will gain. It will be a question of who has the best 'return on investment.'

Lightsaber

I agree...

But you have to admit this is a really big deal for all involved!... Yes?   



harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently onlinemffoda From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1074 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19077 times:

Quoting poLOT (Reply 6):
Yes I did (and yes, I agree it was a strange part of the article to quote).

Are you calling me strange?   

Actually, I got a little excited by the news, and wanted to bring it to light.

On the other hand, I try to read the the article before I comment about on a-net... 



harder than woodpecker lips...
User currently offlineSpruceMoose From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 18862 times:

So... PW is buying out RR's share of IAE, and then they're turning around and forming a new JV for pretty much the same market segment? Do I have that right? Am I missing something?

What's the motivation for this?

-SpruceMoose



It flew at an altitude of six feet for a distance of four and a half feet. Then we discovered rain makes it catch fire.
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6923 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 18552 times:

Well, I didn't see that coming!  

But this is potentially huge. As big as (or bigger than?) the creation of the GE-PW Engine Alliance. It sets the stage for a two-way battle between GE/Snecma and PW/RR for decades to come.

Quoting SpruceMoose (Reply 9):
So... PW is buying out RR's share of IAE, and then they're turning around and forming a new JV for pretty much the same market segment? Do I have that right? Am I missing something?

I know what you mean.

My guess is that the legal relationship between the four partners in IAE (remember, it's not just PW and RR) means that if PW and RR want to do a 50:50 thing, it'll have to be a new entity.


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2804 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 18310 times:

This effectively means it is now RR/Pratt vs GE/Snecma in the small engine market.

I think it shows several things:

1. Pratt going it alone with the GTF show that the rules in the IAE was not allowing the dynamics they needed for competing with GE/Snecma neither in the VF2500 (PIPs were slow in coming) nor the next thing the GTF (Pratt alone) nor the after GTF thing the open rotor (RR alone). Effectively IAE is now canned and a new partnership will replace it, dynamic enough to compete effectively with GE/Snecma.

2. The top brass of Pratt and RR both realized that going it alone vs GE/Snecma was a lose-lose situation so something had to be done, something smarter structured then IAE. A and B also had told them they did not really like this going alone, 3 engine choices for A/C is one to many going forward. After Pratt not being let in on the MAX the message from A and B was "get your act sorted and return as one and you will have a share beside GE/Snecma for sure, we don't like exclusive engine deals in the long run (read B being frustrated with GEs misses recently)"

3. This is a huge endorsement of the GTF (and this is what is on the joint sales campaign right now therefore no big talk of OR for now, get all your arrows on todays target) but also a realization from Pratt they are as naked as RR on GTF if GE/Snecma convinces A and B the NSA (which is now late 2020 as both have neoed) should be OR.

Great stuff, the world is not simplified below 230 seats, now what happens above? Makes not sense Pratt goes alone there as well with the GTF and a certain son of rays has said "the gearbox does not scale quite so well on really high power", I expect something there as well, but oh well this is for tomorrow  Wow!       .



[Edited 2011-10-12 18:34:15]


Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2804 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18215 times:

Now a question after all this, what is a 1100G-JM and what aircraft does it target???


Non French in France
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13138 posts, RR: 100
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18155 times:
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Quoting mffoda (Reply 7):
But you have to admit this is a really big deal for all involved!... Yes?

I believe it is. But:

Quoting PM (Reply 10):
Well, I didn't see that coming!

Nor I!

Quoting ferpe (Reply 11):
PIPs were slow in coming

That was the #1 structural problem with IAE. They didn't have a mechanism in place to fund and push forward technological improvements.

I'm still trying to digest this. So if my comments are brief... My rumor mill didn't give me a hint!

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2804 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18088 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 12):
Now a question after all this, what is a 1100G-JM and what aircraft does it target???

Got it answered, it is the 320neo program.

Then it is clear, in short this means:

IAE is dead but resurfaces as the new IAE, no more, no less. The new IAE will have rules that makes the last 3 years check-mate not reappear. When the dust settles RR will have loost out on the non 320 GTF programs sold so far but who cares, this is peanuts compared to 320 and A and B NSAs.

This also spells harder competition for GR/Snecma going forward, expect their shares to fall a bit.

[Edited 2011-10-12 18:58:27]


Non French in France
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12564 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18075 times:

Quoting mffoda (Thread starter):
Pratt & Whitney will purchase Rolls Royce share of IAE for $1.5 billion, plus an agreed by the hour payment for the next 15 years for the current installed fleet.
Quoting mffoda (Reply 3):
"What’s stunning in the new partnership RR and PW announced to develop engines in the 120-230 seat market and to focus on Geared Turbo Fan technology." (from Leeham)
Quoting SpruceMoose (Reply 9):
So... PW is buying out RR's share of IAE, and then they're turning around and forming a new JV for pretty much the same market segment? Do I have that right? Am I missing something?

It seems like PW is divorcing a woman (and paying her alimony!), then turning around and marrying the same woman again?  

Must be more to the story...



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1580 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17966 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 14):
IAE is dead but resurfaces as the new IAE, no more, no less. The new IAE will have rules that makes the last 3 years check-mate not reappear. When the dust settles RR will have lost out on the non 320 GTF programs sold so far but who cares, this is peanuts compared to 320 and A and B NSAs.

Yep, so IAE dies and is reborn in the same day pretty neat trick, maybe they will name the new JV Phoenix?

RR remains on wing on A320NEO, Pratt buys a ticket to future OR on NSA and future airbus NB sounds like good business for both companies.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 14):
Got it answered, it is the 320neo program.

So will this lead to any design changes / technology transfer for the A320 GTF or is the program too far advanced for that? If RR have the technology to improve the combuster which Lightsaber tells us is conservative this would presumably stick it to the MAX which has no GTF option.



BV
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4992 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17950 times:

Does this JV clear the way for an engine option on the 737MAX ?

User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31007 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17930 times:
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Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 17):
Does this JV clear the way for an engine option on the 737MAX?

No. Boeing has signed a new exclusive contract with CFM.

For the NSA/797, however...


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17888 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
What shocked me:Rolls Royce will also invest in the Pure Power 1100G-JM engine as a part of this transaction.

While Pratt is giving up a lot, they are also bringing in the RR sales team. I think everyone will gain. It will be a question of who has the best 'return on investment.'

Well there is that dimension, but there is another one we discussed a while back - during Paris airshow "NEO flood" ???? - and that is production. Presumably IAE facilities would come in a bit handy for making GTFs at required rates and maybe a bit of capacity from RR as well.

Very interesting. Only disappointment is RR might stop trying to make a light small 3 spool engine and such an engine was going to be "interesting". Always hoped to see where a fanned RB199 development might go! Sigh, now it will lose a spool and gain a gearbox.

BTW, Lightsaber, is there any reason (apart from weight, er well and cost) not put a geared fan on a 3 spooler and get the stages even more optimised?

Oblique to topic. If RR are able to be this creative with company structures, maybe we might have to revise how much of a barrier partnership structures might be to swapping out the T900 for the TXWB on the A388/389.      


User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3068 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17738 times:

Quoting planesailing (Reply 2):
The selected quote actually reads more as a divorce!

My thought exactly!

Quoting planesailing (Reply 2):
Did you read the article though?

More information is detailed in there regarding a mid sized engine joint venture between the two companies.

True, the thread title makes much more sense after reading the whole article.

Quoting poLOT (Reply 6):
The cynic inside me wants to know why PW feels the need to work with RR if the GTF is going great though...

I'm so glad I'm not the only cynic around here.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13138 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17598 times:
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Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
and that is production. Presumably IAE facilities would come in a bit handy for making GTFs at required rates and maybe a bit of capacity from RR as well.

I'll agree. I think Pratt could have produced the engines; bringing RR on board reduces risk and Pratt will tap into their technical expertise.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
BTW, Lightsaber, is there any reason (apart from weight, er well and cost) not put a geared fan on a 3 spooler and get the stages even more optimised?

It would take a higher thrust engine to 'make the room' to even do that. The gearbox would interfere with front bearing placement. So we're talking 70k+ thrust.

But there wouldn't be enough economic advantage. The triple spool fixes a few problems of a conventional double spool:
1. Allows the low compressor ("booster compressor") to operate at a far more optimal Mach number (RPM). The GTF does this as well, so this advantage disappears.
2. Allows the engine to balance itself at different thrust levels, in particular during climb where the forces on the fan reduce the low spool RPM. If anything, the larger fan that the GTF enables will make this worse on a twin spool GTF.
3. The turbine powering the low compressor is at an optimal Mach # (but the GTF does this almost as well)

The one thing the GTF does that the triple spool cannot do without the gearbox: The low turbine is at a much more optimal Mach # (RPM) and thus the component efficiency is higher.

While possible, I do not see a three shaft engine and the GTF. A combined GTF/triple spool would be an engine with 3 compressors and 3 turbines. The advantage of three compressors would be nice. I've proposed that the Trent XWB would benefit from having a one or two stage low compressor on the fan's shaft. With a GTF, that compressor would be far more effective and efficient. The main benefit would be how the compressor heats the air into the next compressor thus allow its compressor stages to be at a slightly more optimal Mach #.

The same would be true on the turbine side. After 2 turbine stages, it is advantageous to break up the turbine to multiple Mach #'s (RPM).

So there is an advantage to approaching an infinite number of spools. If one ignores cost, weight, space to package the bearings, and other practical details.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5471 posts, RR: 30
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17237 times:

This is the quickest and easiest way for RR to regain a toehold in the NB market and can no doubt bring its considerable resources to adapting the GTF to larger engine sizes.

What Pratt gets out of this is one less competitor in future NB programs and an instant entry into the medium and large engine markets...with access to the considerable research RR has done.

I suspect Pratt saw that it will be quite busy enough dealing with the current commitments which would limit future research.

Some really great stuff is going to come out of this.



What the...?
User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1719 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16718 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):
So there is an advantage to approaching an infinite number of spools. If one ignores cost, weight, space to package the bearings, and other practical details.

Love it!


User currently offlinepacksonflight From Iceland, joined Jan 2010, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 15659 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 22):
Some really great stuff is going to come out of this.

Probably this is just a simple insurance for both companys. If RR and PW goes head to head for the NB market there is always a risk of "winner takes all" But if they attack the next generation NB marked together, with the right product there is a good chance that they can get in a "CFM position"


25 ferpe : Agree, the stakes are getting very high for being left in the Pratt (on DA) or RR (SA) position, you are left out for 30-50 years. Better to get a mo
26 LH452 : My take on this is that RR is in dire need of cash. LH452
27 r2rho : Indeed, I see contradicting things going on here, we clearly don't know the full story... - PW buys RR out of IAE, then resurrects IAE as a sort of "
28 Post contains links astuteman : Although this suggests otherwise.. http://www.rolls-royce.com/investors...10728_half_yearly_2011_results.jsp I suspect more strategic drivers, such a
29 faro : Can we expect 3-spool GTF's in the not-too-distant future... Faro
30 BoeingVista : Well yes and no, they did go head to head winner takes all in the NB market, Pratt won and RR lost, there will probably not be another NB launched th
31 AirbusA6 : Extraordinary, and a well kept secret! RR have now done a massive u-turn, having fought against the GTF, and lost out badly, they are now back in the
32 flyglobal : About a year ago until some 6 months ago it was frequently reported (at least in German press) , that Pratt tried to work the GTF via the IAE consorti
33 Post contains links ferpe : A very nice take on this news, Guy Norris at AW: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest " In the relatively pre
34 parapente : Like everybody else - did not see this coming.However for once it seems that top management have swallowed their short term pride for a (very) long te
35 Post contains images ferpe : Reading the press releases and some commentary I think one can glean one more thing from this: 0. PW and RR of course know B and A inside out given th
36 r2rho : My understanding of this deal is that there is no fundamental change to current engine programs. The NEO GTF will still be an all-PW GTF. But RR will
37 TCASAlert : RR already have some sort of relationship with PW, I know of employees who go on secondment between PW in the US and RR here, and vice versa.
38 Post contains links ferpe : Here the RR presentation to the press and investors: http://www.rolls-royce.com/Images/orchid_final_tcm92-32191.pdf One thing dawns upon you, RR descr
39 Post contains images Baroque : I guess that is the other end member from a single spool. Thank you for taking me/us through what would happen if you tried a 3-spool GTF. Does not s
40 Post contains images lightsaber : I find this facinatng as UTC's bond rating is in danger from the cash demands of the Goodrich acquizition. I wonder how the bond market will react to
41 Post contains images Devilfish : This is a natural progression, given IAE not being onboard the NEO and MAX. Pro'ly.
42 Post contains images SEPilot : I agree with this, and other than the issues with IAE that others have commented on I think this is the real news behind the news on this story. Of c
43 r2rho : I wonder... is there still time for RR to introduce design changes into the NEO GTF for EIS? Maybe a few small ones? Or perhaps, RR could introduce t
44 AirbusA6 : Will RR have any involvement in the assembly of the A320neo GTF, as it's not specifically mentioned? The new venture IAE Mk2 is geared towards the suc
45 Post contains links and images ferpe : A very good analysis of Ernest Arvai at AirInsight: http://airinsight.com/2011/10/13/pw-rr-partnership-what-it-means/ Summary extract: "The Bottom Lin
46 parapente : As the above article states.Both companies are persuing a geared route.Just one is (for now) a conventional fan and the other OR. Also it appears (in
47 ContnlEliteCMH : Even after all the excellent speculation on this thread, something still doesn't make sense: If RR "blinked" first due to being shut out of the NB mar
48 SEPilot : From reading this thread and others I have come to believe that the structure of IAE is standing in their way to go forward with other projects, and
49 ContnlEliteCMH : But this doesn't address my question. Why is P&W buying out RR, and not the reverse?
50 Post contains images fruitbat : Don't count anything out, from the RR website: "This new joint venture will focus on high bypass ratio geared turbofan™ technology. In addition, th
51 SpruceMoose : If $1.5 Billion is an attractive price, then that's PW's reward for agreeing to the new venture? I guess it all depends on what the revenue stream is
52 SEPilot : I was very clear in my first post on the subject that I was reading into it from my own personal opinion. I still stand on that. I do not believe tha
53 BoeingVista : I don't buy that, its that the OEMs have decided not to pursue a new platform that could make the OR concept work. This is one of the reasons that RR
54 JoeCanuck : Because Pratt wants more control of the new venture. If Pratt agree to a RR buyout, RR would be in the drivers seat. It's the GTF technology and pote
55 ContnlEliteCMH : You could be right, and we'll know once the details of the JV are released. Hopefully Pratt has used their superior position to negotiate a sweethear
56 Post contains images Baroque : As you later write, "once the details are released". I think we will work out the details more by facts in the air than firm details. Wonder what the
57 JoeCanuck : I don't think RR is giving up on the OR just yet but I think they've accepted that it will be another decade or so before it's ready for prime time. B
58 Post contains images PM : I'm still confused as to the relationship between the new JV and IAE. The new JV is 50:50. Pratt cannot be "in control", surely? But the 'new' IAE ce
59 Post contains links queb : Rolls-Royce will sell its stake in IAE to Pratt & Whitney, which in turn will pass on parts of this share to MTU Aero Engines. http://mtu.de/en/pr
60 parapente : As has been stated ,from RR's point of view there is a reality check. Both A&B have decided to warm over existing aircraft designs.The sales of th
61 Post contains images EPA001 : I guess you are correct with your assumption. Me too, but hopefully over time we will get some clarity on this. Luckily I was not the only one who wa
62 JoeCanuck : With this consolidation, they are both winners. Both bring a ton to the table and now further research won't have to strain their individual resource
63 r2rho : Agree. Maybe OR will come someday, but A&B with NEO&MAX have already said not before 2025 earliest. That locks RR out of the narrowbody marke
64 Baroque : That is my guess too, but to what extent is the GTF "blisked". That might be a way of putting more of a strain on GE to keep level just by improving
65 SEPilot : There is that part of it for sure, but it still remains that noise, speed, and safety are also huge problems for OR to overcome, with the only big ad
66 lightsaber : I speculate the profit sharing has changed to benefit Pratt. Who will then pay for PIPs... Speculation though. GE is ahead with CMC turbine blades. T
67 Post contains images ferpe : I think it can be a bit easier if one separates things: 1. IAE changes Clearly the GTF was at a disadvantage vs CFM as it did not own the present eng
68 ContnlEliteCMH : I'm glad somebody else is too. In my technical field, when we perform QA, we often discover a problem whose direct cause is not obvious. The way we a
69 BMI727 : Not giving up on it any more than people gave it up before. Just they know that it won't be ready in time for the next generation of planes. So rathe
70 Post contains images SEPilot : And where it will sit for the next 30, or 300, IMHO.
71 Post contains images mffoda :
72 JoeCanuck : Best technology ever.
73 Post contains images queb : Mmm... No GECAS Without GECAS, market share of GE would be significantly smaller.
74 Post contains images mffoda : But, see that's just it, they are not without them! Money talks and GTF/OR just walks...
75 fruitbat : That's my reading of the tea leaves as well. Some beanie in P&W will have worked out that this leverage (and constancy of purpose) is worth more
76 ContnlEliteCMH : Whose has been better?
77 Revelation : I haven't read the entire thread, but I agree with both PM and fruitbat. I am sure there are both tangible and intangible benefits for PW to make suc
78 Post contains images queb : I don't know, but what I know is that CFM is the best seller because there is GECAS behind (aircrafts purchase and financing) and secondarily , the C
79 mffoda : And it has nothing to do with quality, service or better dispatch reliability then their competitor?
80 Post contains images BoeingVista : And of course some beanie in RR would have worked out that $1.5bn up front plus a per hour flying payment for 15 years was worth more than keeping th
81 Baroque : Will RR not have to tell the stock exchange the nature and extent of the "modest" reverse investment some time, where some time is probably about now
82 BoeingVista : At some point. Well, IAE is now a dead end as its only product, the V2500 and application A320 classic is about to become a legacy; for PW if RR was
83 Post contains images astuteman : Again, their latest accounts suggest that their net cash position is just fine, so I don't think RR did this "just for the cash" Rgds
84 JoeCanuck : Nothing in the modern airliner era is done for short term anything. These guys are looking decades into the future, and neither is currently in any da
85 BoeingVista : Its not really ironic, as you say it was a deal done to take out a competitor and ensure that they were both on the A380 platform. I see EA as dead e
86 Post contains links Stitch : Embraer did choose the V2500 to power their KC-390 military platform. Embraer Selects IAE V2500 For KC-390 (by SpruceMoose Aug 6 2011 in Military Avi
87 scbriml : They did, but I doubt it will amount to a large number of engines.
88 BoeingVista : Yes I know but they will be very lucky to sell 100 aircraft in the lifetime of the product opposed to the 200 IAE A320's per year currently being rol
89 VV701 : he markets here in the UK are taking a very positive view of this deal. RR stock c;losed on Friday at an all timr high of |£6.955. This was a gain of
90 fruitbat : Completing the circle: until recently, GE and RR were in bed on the F136 programme. One of the fascinating things about this industry is it's complex
91 AirbusA6 : RR and GE had a deal on larger engines in the mid 80s (around the same time as RR and PW were creating the V2500) with RR assembling some CF6s, and G
92 VV701 : Sorry. My typo. For "£5.40" read "£6.40".
93 VV701 : RR's stock rose from £6,135 to £6.995 in the week when their agreement with P&W was announced. Since then RR's stock has continued to rise and r
94 Baroque : OTBE, you would have thought the market would be more impressed by the Trent program than the GTF share. Maybe it is something else, or maybe there i
95 VV701 : You are right. It has. During the current worldwide economic difficulties when stock indices like the FTSE100 (of which RR is a component part)have s
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