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AI Flight Stranded At LGW  
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1453 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 17266 times:

Tricky situation at LGW right now. According to the BBC, an AI flight from BOM to LHR was diverted into LGW earlier today as LHR was closed by fog. The plane remains at LGW while AI seeks a replacement crew.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15327839

62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 748 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 17234 times:

Doesn't LGW have customs clearance? It might have been easier to clear the passengers and bus those with connections to LHR. I would not have appreciated sitting in a plane for 8 hours.

User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2253 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 17209 times:

Customs and immigration rules or not, this is ridiculous. They could have taken them to a segregated area and provided for them. Its treating passengers like cattle. No wonder the police were called. Id be first in line to call them ( after my lawyer !)....

User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12407 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 17134 times:

Why aren't the AI crew Cat III qualified? The airport is and of course, the 777 is more than capable of Cat III approaches, but why hasn't this crew being trained to Cat III standards? After all, DEL is an airport where Cat III qualifications would be needed.

And why can't the aircraft be ferried to LHR?


User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2253 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16933 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
And why can't the aircraft be ferried to LHR?

It was. Eventually.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16799 times:

There should have been no reason for the customers on board to not have de-boarded, unless AI did not want them to. LGW has the full facilities to cope with a flight from anywhere.

User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3169 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16666 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 5):
There should have been no reason for the customers on board to not have de-boarded, unless AI did not want them to. LGW has the full facilities to cope with a flight from anywhere.

Agree, seems like AI did not want to incur any local charges for such services.
Very poor management call.
Can not imagine this happening in the US without a BIG fuss. 8 hrs going nowhere in a plane would really upset me.  



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16622 times:

The AI flight has now arrived back at LHR after a delay of almost 9hrs at LGW. There is some more info about the incident now posted on the Daily Telegraph's website:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/tr...Gatwick-for-almost-nine-hours.html


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7380 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16532 times:

Perhaps AI did n ot have the credit to pay for services at LGW. ( I understand they have significant financial problems.)

User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7360 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16484 times:
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Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Why aren't the AI crew Cat III qualified?

Err.. if there's hour+ delays, it wouldn't matter what qualifications the crew had. MAN hosted a US A330 + AA 777. Shall we cast aspersions on those crews as well?


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2956 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16476 times:
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Nothing to see here just a typical divert to an off station airfield with no handling agent agreement etc...

Add they would have had to apply for a slot to get back to Heathrow at a time when ATC are operating flow management and you rapidly get to a crew time out situation.

Suspect this Air India crew would have preferred to go to Paris of Frankfurt if they were able to.

The UK press just love these stories.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16478 times:

Would the crew of the flight that should have left been at LHR waiting. Could they not have just got a coach to LGW, only takes an hour...

User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2956 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16296 times:
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Quoting lhr380 (Reply 11):
Would the crew of the flight that should have left been at LHR waiting. Could they not have just got a coach to LGW, only takes an hour...

That call would be a decision for line management to make and based on the fact Heathrow didn't close but rather flow control was enforced they could only rely on an early slot , so crew repositioning likely would't have helped that much.

As i said they may have been better served going to a Line Station - Paris or Frankfurt but for urgent fuel considerations.


User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3169 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 15980 times:

The story is building more now as the passengers arriving at LHR and talk to the waiting press.
Some it seems wanted to be arrested at LGW just in order to get off the plane.



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 15213 times:
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Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 6):
Agree, seems like AI did not want to incur any local charges for such services.
Very poor management call.
Can not imagine this happening in the US without a BIG fuss. 8 hrs going nowhere in a plane would really upset me.

Seems like Star Alliance made the right decision on denying AI into Star! These type of mistakes as well as everything else they have done or are currently doing really add up.


User currently offlineBurj From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 901 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 14965 times:

Do the EU rules apply in this situation?

If this were in the U.S. there would have been huge fines!

From: http://www.dot.gov/affairs/2011/dot5111.html

"Tarmac Delays. The new rule expands the existing ban on lengthy tarmac delays to cover foreign airlines’ operations at U.S. airports and establishes a four hour hard time limit on tarmac delays for international flights of U.S. and foreign airlines, with exceptions allowed only for safety, security or air traffic control-related reasons. Carriers must also ensure that passengers stuck on the tarmac are provided adequate food and water after two hours, as well as working lavatories and any necessary medical treatment.

The extended tarmac delays experienced by passengers on international flights operated by foreign carriers at New York’s JFK Airport during the December 2010 blizzard was an important factor in the Department’s decision to extend the tarmac delay provisions to foreign air carriers and establish a four hour tarmac delay limit for international flights."


User currently offlineplanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 14815 times:

Air India has a ground handling agreement in place at Gatwick which comes as an extension of their agreement in place for cargo handling.

Anyway, emergency ground handling can be arranged at short notice with handling agents should there be a required need for it.

There must be more to this story than the published headline but without Air India's comment, it will be hard to judge so.


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2956 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 14787 times:
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Quoting Burj (Reply 15):
Do the EU rules apply in this situation?

If this were in the U.S. there would have been huge fines!

From: http://www.dot.gov/affairs/2011/dot5111.html

"Tarmac Delays. The new rule expands the existing ban on lengthy tarmac delays to cover foreign airlines’ operations at U.S. airports and establishes a four hour hard time limit on tarmac delays for international flights of U.S. and foreign airlines, with exceptions allowed only for safety, security or air traffic control-related reasons. Carriers must also ensure that passengers stuck on the tarmac are provided adequate food and water after two hours, as well as working lavatories and any necessary medical treatment.

The extended tarmac delays experienced by passengers on international flights operated by foreign carriers at New York’s JFK Airport during the December 2010 blizzard was an important factor in the Department’s decision to extend the tarmac delay provisions to foreign air carriers and establish a four hour tarmac delay limit for international flights."

I would say with exceptions allowed only for safety, security or air traffic control-related reasons

the last comment applies here it was held on stop by ATC flow control awaiting a positioning slot.


User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 14625 times:

Its AI. What else can people expect? Pathetic service and pathetic treatment. Still don't know why anyone would fly them when there are better options (Kingfisher and Jet Airways) available.

AI could have arranged a bus or something to go to LHR..I mean looking at Google maps it tells me its about an hour's drive. Way better than forcing the passengers to remain on board for 8 hours!



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User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12407 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 14486 times:

Well, as I always say, India has produced many great writers of fiction in recent years - Vikram Seth, V S Naipaul, Arundhati Roy - but no one has equalled the level of fiction produced by Air India in its magnum opus, simply titled, "Timetable".

User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 14486 times:

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 18):
AI could have arranged a bus or something to go to LHR..I mean looking at Google maps it tells me its about an hour's drive. Way better than forcing the passengers to remain on board for 8 hours!

It is an hour on a coach. Lots of em run every day, AI could even have chartered one.


User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 14284 times:

I mentioned before in another thread that during the 80s Air India used any excuse to land at LGW rather than LHR. Lower landing fees was one reason, but I'm sure there were more.

In those days the pax were put on coaches to LHR and the LHR pax brought to LGW.

What's the point of buying advanced technology planes if you don't use them for what they can do? Even the Trident could land in fog.  


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 14089 times:

Quoting Babybus (Reply 21):
What's the point of buying advanced technology planes if you don't use them for what they can do? Even the Trident could land in fog.  

Main reason for the diversions (A BA plane went to BHX apparently) was the flow rate being highly reduced. It was thick as pea soup when I left the house at 0615 and was still as thick at 1000. Only started to burn away at about 1130.

As I was in the bus going past the threshold area of 27R, I heard a plane, and only saw it as it came over the road, and even then lost it a few seconds later just as it touched down, so I can understand why it may have diverted.


User currently offlinedavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7360 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 13884 times:
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Quoting Babybus (Reply 21):
What's the point of buying advanced technology planes if you don't use them for what they can do? Even the Trident could land in fog.
Quoting david_itl (Reply 9):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Why aren't the AI crew Cat III qualified?

Err.. if there's hour+ delays, it wouldn't matter what qualifications the crew had. MAN hosted a US A330 + AA 777. Shall we cast aspersions on those crews as well?

I wonder if some people read what other airlines did.


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 13853 times:

Quoting Burj (Reply 15):
Do the EU rules apply in this situation?

No, this a flight which originated outside the EU and was operated by a non-EU airline. The EU rules only apply for all flights by EU airlines or flights originated in the EU.


25 varig_dc10 : A similar thing happened to me last Christmas, when I was on a TAM flight from GRU to LHR. LHR was closed because of snow, so they diverted us to CDG.
26 bthebest : Ok, so for whatever reasons the aircraft didn't land at LHR - fair enough. Waiting a few hours on the tarmac at LGW to resolve LHR landing problem - f
27 tymnbalewne : If the crew goes out of hours then mustn't the passengers be offloaded? If the crew is off duty, they're off duty so can't provide any services (safet
28 lhr380 : Have been thinking the same thing since I heard them say "Crew Out Of Hours"
29 jc2354 : Good news: Only 110 passengers (http://www.asianage.com/international/110-ai-passengers-stranded-8-hours-inside-plane-after-flight-diverted-080) Bad n
30 gr8circle : I'm amazed at how easily people on a.net jump into an AI attacking mode......the BBC story is extremely one-sided, with no comments from AI itself...
31 par13del : I speculate on two items: 1. AI management did not approve the funds for deplanement at LGW with the associated charges to get pax to LHR 2. Crew time
32 planesailing : If this is the case, then why have AI not come out and said this to the press who are currently bashing them? One article I read quite clearly stated
33 Rivet42 : The cause of the diversion itself is largely irrelevent, flights get diverted like this all the time, it's what happened subsequently that is the stor
34 Springbok747 : Typical response from AI..silence..instead of saying what their reasons were and trying to clear this issue. BS. All their passports/visas are checke
35 gr8circle : I would put it down to AI's usual slow response in such situations.....that's what gets them into trouble with passengers most of the time......their
36 Burj : I don't think this does apply because once the crew times out ATC flow control becomes a moot point. The fines only kick in after 4 hours to give the
37 Tsveto4nik : A spokesman for Gatwick said that it had been Air India's decision to keep the passengers on board rather than arrange alternative transport to Heathr
38 Springbok747 : Not true. It was AI's decision to keep passengers on board. ? Source please. How the hell can someone even board a flight to the UK/wherever without
39 wukka : Arrest me. I will not sit there for 9 hours for a dog and pony show. If a single member of that crew got off of the plane, I would be directly behind
40 lhr380 : I did chuckle at your comment. I can Bet you anything LGW Immigration would not have cared one bit if the flight unloaded there or not. It's uk immig
41 bennett123 : If Immigration at LGW had any doubts about this unexpected arrivalthey could presumably have called operations, who could confirm the divertion. Equal
42 coolum : You are extremely niave if you think people aren't boarding flights all over the world with illegal/false documentation. Immigration officers don't c
43 trintocan : One quick point... Vidia S Naipaul is from Trinidad & Tobago and not India. In terms of what happened at LGW, I think AI is the one at fault here.
44 nclmedic : Have to (sadly) agree with this as well. Other than checking visitors leave the UK when they're supposed to, the UK Border Agency cares very little w
45 TupolevTu154 : I'm quite interested that nobody had mentioned the AA 767 that also diverted in to LGW yesterday morning and sat on the ground for at least 6 hours be
46 Ychocky : Were the timed out crew allowed to get of the aircraft? Arguably it is easier to get to points in London from Gatwick so I think a choice could/should
47 Post contains links VV701 : Where its passengers kept on board for those six hours? AI have now commented on the situation: "Passengers ended up sitting on a plane on the tarmac
48 kaitak : Yes, but apart from the initial fog, all of those delays were caused by Air India itself; "creeping delays" can't really be used as an explanation. I
49 Skyguy : AI being a government run airline and completely crippled by bureaucracy, anything that happens out-of-the-ordinary has to be run up the hierarchy lad
50 cmf : Who is AI's ground handler at LHR? Are they at LGW? Would there be any reason why they would not be able to handle the flight at LGW?
51 coolum : I'm not sure who handles AI at LHR, but from the pictures I saw, it was Servisair dealing with them at LGW. The fact that steps were on the a/c and s
52 cmf : Agree. Just expect that if the LHR handling agent is available at LGW, and without knowing I think it is likely, it should not be a major problem to
53 Post contains images YTZ : I've had this check done on a flight from the US. There are ramp checks when they receive intelligence about certain pax who maybe en route. There ar
54 YTZ : AA probably doesn't starve their passengers....
55 Babybus : I believe all airlines have a substitute handler at LGW. Even if they don't the handlers are only too happy to pounce on them. I remember a long fuel
56 skipness1E : Servisair handle AIR INDIA at Heathrow, so no issues about Gatwick there!
57 Post contains images coolum : I had thought as much, but wasn't 100% sure This isn't always the case. I have known handling agents refuse to handle a divert due to their regular w
58 gr8circle : You quote me, but misread my post.....when I referred to the experience at YYZ, I clearly said the immigration officer was checking each incoming, de
59 YTZ : We understood what you were saying. The rest of us have experienced it too. Again. It's not any more commonly experienced on flights from India and/o
60 474218 : While AI may be Cat III qualified, no airline/aircraft/airport is Cat IIIc qualified. So if the fog was as "thick" as lhr380 stated no one was landin
61 Post contains images gr8circle : Thanks Agree, but the "threat" based thing is more to do with security issues, when there is some intelligence report about suspected individuals tra
62 lhr380 : Because of nothing in the news about it. I did hear planes landing, but the flow rate would have been HEAVILY reduced.
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