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Air Berlin To Launch Berlin-Los Angeles In S12  
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9693 times:

3 times per week from S12.

They will also increase JFK-Berlin from 4 to 7xw

Quote:

air Berlin continues to develop its long-distance offer starting from Berlin to North America: With beginning of the summer flight plan in May 2012 of Germany starts for the first time second largest airline nonstop from Berlin to Los Angeles and connects the German capital three times weekly with the west coast of the USA. Thus air Berlin is the only airline, which operates nonstop between Berlin and Los Angeles. At the same time air Berlin increases the number of its flights from Berlin to New York. Instead of four times per week „ the Big Apple can be attained “ starting from May 2012 daily.

full press release

http://98.139.168.220/babelfish/tran...es_dr.php%3fLANG%3ddeu%26ID%3d3868

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9655 times:

I hope they can make money on this route... does this mean they reduce long haul connections from DUS, where LH is expanding?

User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9637 times:

So, AB in S12 will fly to the following destinations in USA/Canada :

Vancouver (DUS)
Fort Myers (DUS)
Miami (BER, DUS)
Los Angeles (BER, DUS)
San Francisco (DUS)
New York (BER, DUS)

Does anyone see the potential for more points to be added?
Toronto? Chicago? Boston?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9582 times:

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 2):

Does anyone see the potential for more points to be added?
Toronto? Chicago? Boston?

Not without a change to their business model. LA, New York and Miami are the three highest-demand markets from Germany to the U.S., and nothing comes close except San Francisco. They are still a leisure airline at heart, and rely on that traffic. They need to develop a more traditional hub/spoke model and introduce a stronger business product before making smaller demand leisure markets like Boston or Chicago work. Adding Anchorage, or returning to Las Vegas or Orlando, makes much more sense than Boston or Chicago.



a.
User currently offlineBNAOWB From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 397 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9499 times:

Considering the May start date, would this route initially be TXL-LAX or BER-LAX?

User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9373 times:

With the introduction of this new flight to Berlin LAX will get another direct service to another point in Europe.

As it should look like next summer LAX-Europe (+Turkey/Israel)


- Amsterdam (KLM, Arkefly)
- Berlin (Air Berlin)
- Dusseldorf (Air Berlin)
- Frankfurt (Lufthansa)
- Istanbul (Turkish Airlines)
- London (Air New Zealand, American Airlines, British Airways, United Arlines, Virgin Atlantic)
- Madrid (Iberia)
- Moscow (Aeroflot)
- Munich (Lufthansa)
- Paris (Air France, Air Tahiti Nui)
- Rome (Alitalia)
- Tel Aviv (EL AL)
- Zurich (Swiss)


It's a pity that not long ago Aer Lingus dropped LAX.

[Edited 2011-10-18 05:53:38]

User currently offlineBERFlyer From Germany, joined Jul 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9113 times:

Quoting BNAOWB (Reply 4):

TXL. BER won't operate untill early june.


User currently offlinelindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3118 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9071 times:
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This is really good news for Berlin. I understand that the city has had trouble attracting major businesses and industries in part because of the lack of non-stop long haul flights. I hope AB is able to make the flights work and eventually increase service. It would be great to see them serve SFO from BER as well.

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Photo © Edward Kehler



User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13012 posts, RR: 100
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9040 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Not without a change to their business model.

IMHO, the new BER airport will change AB's business model naturally thanks to the consolodation of 'hubbing potential.' New routes, with lower p2p O&D, will become viable thanks to the connecting traffic. Not to mention AB is joining OW and a saturated LHR will provide some 'natural feed.'

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8933 times:

Does this mean airBerlin will fly to California altogether 7x weekly, DUS-SFO and BER-LAX? Will AB use the current airbus economy seat configuration at 30" pitch for the 10-11 hour flights? What about in-flight entertainment?

User currently offlinefrat From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 1107 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8709 times:

Does anybody know from which routes the aircraft for the new flights and the additional flights to JFK are coming?

User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 883 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8014 times:

Quoting frat (Reply 10):
Does anybody know from which routes the aircraft for the new flights and the additional flights to JFK are coming?


The first Boeing 787 in airberlin livery is planned to be delivered to the airline in April 2014, but with the Chinese cancellation and possibly AI cancelation, they could negotiate for some early frames as some production slots open up. I guess that goes for other airlines as well, but I think it could be a possibility to say snatch 2 frames early. Short of the 787's, I would say it would be a leased A330 if needed.

[Edited 2011-10-18 20:26:16]

User currently offline1979AirBuzz From Germany, joined Oct 2011, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7972 times:

Quoting lindy field (Reply 7):
I understand that the city has had trouble attracting major businesses and industries in part because of the lack of non-stop long haul flights.

It's actually the other way round: Since the greater Berlin area is not very attractive for major businesses and industries, there are only very, very few airlines operating long-haul from either TXL or SXF.


User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7961 times:

How will AirBerlin build up its relationships with OneWorld carriers? From Asia and Australasia, Cathay and Qantas operate into FRA (subject to curfew). As an AirBerlin hub, BER would make a lot of sense for both CX and QF.

There would be good connections between the AirBerlin network and Qantas if AirBerlin would do Berlin to Singapore, or if AirBerlin thinks of itself as more of a leisure carrier, perhaps Jetstar will be the airline to work with.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4167 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7943 times:

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 5):
It's a pity that not long ago Aer Lingus dropped LAX.

They will possibly be returning for 2013.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offline1979AirBuzz From Germany, joined Oct 2011, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7893 times:

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 13):
How will AirBerlin build up its relationships with OneWorld carriers?

This is what many people in the industry have asked eversince AB announced they will join OneWorld. Their hubs are TXL, NUE and STR in Germany, PMI, STN and LGW. Almost none of these airports gets fed by any other OneWorld carrier.
AB will not be able to obtain any slots in LHR for obvious reasons and FRA - well, they have not applied in a big scale for new slots recently.

IMO, joining OneWorld was another deperate attempt of ex-CEO Joachim Hunold to make money with AB - but I guess it will utterly fail, just as all the other attempts before (like competing with LH on FRA-HAM routes).


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2618 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7172 times:

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 13):
How will AirBerlin build up its relationships with OneWorld carriers?

AB have already signed a code-share agreement with AA to complement their TALT routes (and also Finnair).
http://www.airberlin.com/site/pressnews_dr.php?ID=2278&LANG=eng
Recently when looking for a flight to MAD, once of the options showing was a combined AB-IB ticket.

There's still a lot of work to be done, but integration with OW is the only hope for AB to survive. Maybe OW carriers should start thinking out of the box a bit and flying more to DUS & BER instead of Star fortress hubs like FRA.

Quoting 1979AirBuzz (Reply 12):

It's actually the other way round: Since the greater Berlin area is not very attractive for major businesses and industries, there are only very, very few airlines operating long-haul from either TXL or SXF.

Yes, but the conditions for long-haul flights don't exist either. SXF is a low-cost carrier airport in every sense, and TXL is saturated and not built for connecting traffic, let alone a hub operation with short-haul feed. With the new BER, the conditions to enable long-haul flights will be created for the first time. Today, with or without interest from business, these conditions do not exist.


User currently offlineG500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6623 times:
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Quoting LIPZ (Reply 2):
Vancouver (DUS)
Fort Myers (DUS)
Miami (BER, DUS)
Los Angeles (BER, DUS)
San Francisco (DUS)
New York (BER, DUS)

What happened to Vegas?


User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8534 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6572 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 11):
The first Boeing 787 in airberlin livery is planned to be delivered to the airline in April 2014

- I thought these were cancelled some time ago?



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6554 times:

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 18):
- I thought these were cancelled some time ago?

Half of them, not all.


User currently offlinespud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6215 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 16):
There's still a lot of work to be done, but integration with OW is the only hope for AB to survive. Maybe OW carriers should start thinking out of the box a bit and flying more to DUS & BER instead of Star fortress hubs like FRA.

BA is assisting AB's entry into OW.
BA flies to both AB hubs at DUS and TXL so I assume TXL will move over to BER when it opens.
AB could code share on BA and there you have access to LHR. Plus AB operate out of LGW so there's access to another BA hub.

Could we see a closer integration or investment of AB into IAG? If so, and if IAG buys up BD for it's LHR slots then perhaps a few of those could be utilised by AB (if it were an IAG airline).

I'm sure we'll see other OW members working with AB out of the new BER very soon.

What about a code share with BE to link regional UK routes to the new BER hub?


User currently offlineCarmelo From Hungary, joined Sep 2005, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6120 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Not without a change to their business model.

They are just overhauling the business class and economy class on their longhaul fleet. It's actually madatory for the Oneworld entry  
Quoting frat (Reply 10):
Does anybody know from which routes the aircraft for the new flights and the additional flights to JFK are coming?

AB just acquired two ex-Swiss A330's  



Carmelo
User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 883 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5706 times:

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 18):
I thought these were cancelled some time ago?

10 out of 25 were cancelled, 5 options kept. Currently on order are 15 firm + 5 options.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...s-orders-for-up-to-15-787s-339515/


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5417 times:

Air Berlin will also add a third weekly frequency on SFODUS (operates Monday) and a fifth weekly on MIADUS (operates Saturday; total MIA service will be 8w, with DUS and BER overlapping on Saturdays).


a.
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5301 times:

I'm hoping that AA will announce ORD-BER for S12, but that would reverse the direction they seem to be heading on ORD-Europe. One can dream, though.


SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
25 LONGisland89 : One can dream indeed. Realistically, with AB's anticipated BER hub and entrance into OW, It would be insane for them to not to fly there. AA is and h
26 Post contains images LAXintl : If United does not beat them to BER.
27 Post contains images PW100 : So what other major alliances would have been a better choice, in this respect . . .
28 dazeflight : Since when are STR, STN and LGW hubs for AB? NUE and PMI are mainly leisure, so the hubs that will be relevant in the log term are BER, DUS and VIE.
29 1979AirBuzz : If you look at how many operations AB has per day at PMI and that they connect passengers via PMI to several Spanish, UK and other locations, this is
30 lightsaber : 100% agree. Only with the new airport is there a chance for a hubbing operation. Without hubbing, O&D has to pay for all of the seats. With hubbi
31 dazeflight : Spare me the jokes and rather explain why STR, LGW and STN are hubs? Further, I did not state that NUE and PMI don't have any hubbing operations, I m
32 Post contains links Humberside : Air Berlin would beg to differ on PMI. PMI, along with BER/DUS/VIE with be the focus for expansion http://www.airberlin.com/site/pressnews_dr.php?ID=
33 dazeflight : ^ Shape and size is a short-term programm to bring back the benefits. It will be very difficult for AB to keep the leisure oriented part when it's ful
34 1979AirBuzz : Considering that the leisure ops via PMI are currently the only little moneymaker for AB whereas they lose gazillions of money with each "business" f
35 Post contains images flythere : Would love to see you coming East for Hong Kong
36 dazeflight : I guess that's why size and shape axed quite a few destinations and frequencies at the PMI-hub while the TXL and VIE, dominated by "money-losing busi
37 1979AirBuzz : Let's see if that will help and AB will be profitable for the first time since...ahemm: founding date of the company
38 cgnnrw : I'm in no way an expert on the workings of alliances but that won't keep me from adding my 2cents.... 1) AB and AA work together to strengthen their
39 Post contains links dazeflight : #fail AB must have been founded in 2007 then, because that is the last time they were profitable: Air Berlin plc financial statements 2007 You should
40 frat : AB never flew to Vegas. DE is/was flying there from FRA
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