For those of you who don't want to click on the link the list is as follows
Naturally, I have big problems with this list and the way it was determined. For example, CLE was deemed to be dangerous because of Cleveland Center controllers not maintaining separation, and since Cleveland is the busiest center in the country, who knows if those planes were or were not actually heading to or from CLE. There seems to be a heavy focus on ATC errors on this list and not other considerations. Because of this, airports that I don't think should belong (HNL, LAX, and CLE to name three) are on here, and airports that I see a lot of issues with and I think should be on here (SAN, BUR, LGA, ROA) are not on here. To me this article reeks of another poorly written and researched aviation article. But what else would we expect from the media.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29646 times:
Agreed. This is a pathetically bad article.
So a catering truck once collided with an AA airplane, so that makes MIA on the most dangerous list?
There was the Runway Incursion incident at FLL in 2007 when a UA A320 missed a taxiway turn (which incidentally a very alert controller immediately saw it and told the DL 757 to go-around) so now FLL is a most dangerous airport.
A Cessna once flew too close to a 777, which resulted in a TCAS RA, at SFO. Lo-and-behold, that makes SFO on a list of most dangerous airports.
Any of these incidents could have happened almost anywhere.
This is a disgracefully bad article with no factual basis that is just nothing but sensationalism.
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11793 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29405 times:
Quoting ikramerica (Reply 3): To me danger indicates a strong likelihood of injury or death. There is no inherently dangerous airport in the USA, as there is no strong likelihood of injury or death at any of them.
There is no point ranking inherently safe places in order of their "danger."
Ikramerica, I have to say, as simple as it was, that is probably one of the top 100 posts ever on this forum.
But as long as air travel has the reverance that it does, this kind of crap journalism will continue. How many people are afraid of flying? Yet, how many of those people are not afraid of getting in a car? Aviation breeds irrationality, and these journalists feed on it to make a buck.
Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
bearste From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 29254 times:
Deplorable list...Can't tell you how many times I have flown in and out of ORD, and I feel that airport has the sharpest controllers and handling in the nation. Ridiculous. The rest are idiotic also. Put that journalist in the jumpseat of one of our planes and fly in and out of those airports, instead of looking out a window in 25A.
aajfksjubklyn From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 927 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 28858 times:
The article is completly media trash...nothing esle to talk about as there have been no horror stories in the air lately. It amazes me too the heavy emphasis on the airlines and their brands......Quite hysterical. Are we talking airports? or Airlines?
cyeg66 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 215 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 28379 times:
Lol. ORD's undergoing a $6.6 million program to realign its runways...?!? By that same measure, they could replace SFO with an offshore jobby (a la Kansai or Hong Kong) for about $9 million. I'm not sure but I think that's supposed to say "billion". The 777 departing SFO and seeing a Cessna flying overhead is (slightly) reminiscent of AC's 77W(?) departing NRT and having to abruptly level off due traffic and resulting resolution advisory. Controllers, in that case, hadn't even issued a traffic alert to them, kind of a "oh yeah, there was traffic there." No apology. Oh well.
This list, btw, stinks. Agree wholeheartedly with ikramerica's post. Perhaps there is a way to tabulate "complexity" of American airports. Factor in weather, altitude, congestion, etc. Now, a subjective list like that, done by folks in the FAA, may very well intrigue me. I would assume crossing runway ops would lead to more frequent runway incursions/possible collisions and weigh more heavily in the 'complexity' argument. But by simply recalling situations like 'a catering truck once collided with an airplane', precisely as this article seems to do freely, and drawing the conclusion that an airport must then be dangerous, I say hogwash.
slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5444 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 28076 times:
So two planes collided at ORD? It turns out that one DL jet was being pushed back, and the tug driver turned the aircraft (I think an MD-88) a little two fast, clipping the plane (I believe an A320) parked at the next gate.
How does that make the airport unsafe.
By the way, we're into the second state of runway realignment. Since the 3rd east west runway opened (9L-27R), now arriving traffic doesn't have to land on 22R and do LAHSO to avoid crossing 27L. And 32L has been closed to arriving traffic. Not that 32L was used for arrivals much before 8 or 9pm, but that avoids approaching the runway while flying over Runways 22L and 28.
And, Runway 10-28 has been lengthened.
If anything, the airport in Chicago with a greater potential for problems is MDW. The runways are short, and the patterns have to be configured to avoid the much larger ORD patterns.
Frankly, DCA and LGA represent greater safety issues, when compared to MDW, ORD, or the other airports on the list.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 642 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 27984 times:
Was it me or was most of the list having to do with money being spent to improve the airport? So if an airport is undergoing some improvement it must be a unsafe airport in the authors minds. Or that someone had a cranio-facial inversion and caused an accident and that makes the airport unsafe.
I cannot believe that SAN is not on this list due to the approach and location.
I first saw this mentioned on the news a couple of days ago because of HNL being #5 on the list. Has the FAA come out with a 2011 Annual Runway Safety report? I sure cannot find it on their website, which has the 2010 and 2009 annual reports. I'm really interested to see if HNL actually had 12 runway incursions in FY 2010 because that is how much incidents would have had to happen for the total to match the 33 listed in the article. The 2010 annual report covers fiscal years 2006-2009 and HNL had 21 runway incursions for those years.
jonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 675 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 27394 times:
Oh God, what a crappy piece of journalism
Where Do I start?
1) MIA dangerous? It's as dangerous as the common house fly. The approach path is extremely simple, the runways are well spread out, they are not at extreme capacity, I don't know how this is dangerous?
2) SAN isn't on there? I do understand that it really isn't DANGEROUS but if you are going to make a list this should be there. Single runway, at capacity, reverse operations sometimes used. It's definitely a contender..
Stabilator From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 27313 times:
Was thinking GFK would be up there. Go up in the pattern there on a clear Saturday and your head will be spinning. Factor in the foreign students from Saudi Arabia, Japan and China and the radios can be a CharlieFoxtrot. Loads of traffic. Kudos to the controllers, they know what they're doing (as do almost all controllers. Ive had great experiences wherever I've flown).
So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 27090 times:
This list seems to be 'the most dangerous in the eyes of those that don't fly or had a bad experience at them'.
Generally, at the least, LGA, SDG, Midway, Vail, BOS due to their locations, short runways, little overruns at the end of their runways could be considered higher risk ops airports but not necessarly 'dangerous'.
: This is a terrible list - where is LGA? MDW, JFK? DTW had the confusing runway/taxiway markings back in 1990 when that Northwest DC-9 turned onto an a
: Why not BUR for that matter? Mountains on three sides, short runways with roads right at the ends, standard approach directly over busiest G/A airpor
: WOW.....guess the long approach paths into PHX are way tooo dangerous with limited restrictions... Downtown Dallas and Fort Worth are creating too ma
: this wasn't written by the Globe. it's written by Travel & Leisure.
: The fact DFW made the list basically tells me they ran out of major airports to name off the top of their head. I've watched planes fly into DFW and I
: I dunno a lot of those airports have ample space and ample runways and I am sure if you ask pilots most of these airports would be off the list. I do
: Quoted from the article... "O'Hare airport is undergoing a $6.6 million plan to realign its runways." Such a deal!
: I'd be interested to know why you mentioned ROA, both because it's the airport I most often fly out of, and because it seems to be the one small airp
: Obviously there is no drug testing in journalism. The person who wrote this article is on crack.
: Maybe because there happens to be a water tank off to the left of the runway and a freeway in the approach that Delta 191 hit over 20 years ago. [Edi
: Disregarding this article, I would put EGE and ASE in a list of the most "difficult" airports, just from a terrain perspective. Bruce.
: I'm surprised the article totally missed SAN, especially its tricky approach with that car parking structure just before the start of Runway 27. I'm s
: I would've imagined that TEX would've landed on that list
: You basically hit it all, I believe two runways can't even be used for landing because of terrain (in one direction, not the other), and the runways
: I was expecting those and a slew of airports in Alaska when I opened this thread. Dutch Harbor or one of the other airports up there subject to hazar
: You were reading my mind. Juneau is a real prize in the winter.....I have been on flights with 4 missed approaches due to visibility issues and wind.
: The Boston Globe version is absolutely deplorable, all it is soul purpose is to scare people. While I think the approach is wrong with the Travel and
: ROA is no fun, yeah. Thankfully, I haven't had to deal with it for a few years. AVL, on the other hand, while it is in the middle of a valley, is a p
: again, not making excuses, i'm associated with *neither* company but Boston Globe didn't write it, it came from Travel & Leisure. you'll constant
: These Travel + Leisure articles are specifically designed to frighten passengers and sell magazines. And why oh why does much maligned CLE always mana
: Which as it turned out had nothing to do really do with the airport but was caused by a fatigued pilot who was pushed into flying a flight he wasn't
: I've always felt, from the perspective of an active airline pilot who has flown into SAN since 1988, that the media and the public in general makes a
: Yes, but we have the dangerous Haboob at least three months out of the year, only in the afternoon, when there is a convergence of high and low press
: people still talk about the parking garage - i think more so much as a novelty than anything these days ... it's kind of like the "Welcome to Clevela
: As a pax, I have flown in and out of this airport hundreds of times and I am still alive and never felt unsafe. It is a straight in approach. Now, if
: JNU is a relatively safe airport to fly into. AS uses an RNP approach into Ketchikan, Sitka, and Juneau. Articles like this don't often look further
: I used to fly out of ROA in the late 70's -- my recollection was a fair amount of "weaving" during approach -- I never knew for sure but I assumed it
: I completely forgot about DUT......That can be fun, but JNU with RNP, which I believe only AS operates into JNU with, the NDB approach to 08(or is it
: I believe there's two at JNU, a NDB and LDA X RWY 08 approach. I've flown through JNU a number of times and it's certainly scenic enough to make you
: I know there was an AS 727 that had a CFIT late 80s or early 90s, there have been a few CFIT with small aircraft, but dont think that was due to weat
: That was AS flight 1866 in 1971. It was flying the route AS now calls flight 66 ANC-CDV-YAK-JNU-SEA, I take that flight often from CDV. But, I don't
: Other than the fog, sounds like BUR.
: I thought it was built earlier, but had a few levels added in the late 1980s. But who am I to argue about San Diego Lindbergh Field history with some